Sexually transmitted? ???!!

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WV Mike
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Date Joined May 2017
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   Posted 6/2/2017 12:25 PM (GMT -6)   
I just read in another thread that someone believes they transmitted lymes to their wife through sex. OMG tell me this is not possible. I would feel beyond terrible if I have given this to my wife. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. If so why no warnings from my doctors??? Should we be concerned? Should she see a doc or get tested? She doesn't have any symptoms.

LmLyme
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   Posted 6/2/2017 12:33 PM (GMT -6)   
I would say the majority of people on this forum will agree that it is sexually transmitted. I believe that it can be, and Stephen Buhner, author of "Healing Lyme" says it can be. He even says it could be transmitted thru saliva. If it is structurally made up like Syphilis, and the Lyme bacteria is present in the blood, it sure does make sense to me that it could be transmitted that way.

Pirouette
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   Posted 6/2/2017 12:46 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm so sorry Mike but yes, it is very possible to transmit sexually. I wouldn't panic over this - but it is something to know. I also believe that most people have the Lyme microbe in our bodies but most people also don't develop Lyme disease from it.

Here is some info from two studies that were done but there is a lot of anecdotal evidence out there, too.

The medical community is horribly, criminally mis- and dis-informed about Lyme and transmission both by design and out of fear and ignorance. Conversations like this is how we're changing the landscape.

If your wife hasn't expressed symptoms, then she probably doesn't need to be treating at the moment. But you may be interested in getting her tested some day. Is she healthy, otherwise?

Transmission studies (I included congenital & breast milk in case you also have children):

Sexual
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3855185

Congenital & Breast Milk
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3855191

-p

Post Edited (Pirouette) : 6/2/2017 1:46:46 PM (GMT-6)


Rikky1
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   Posted 6/2/2017 1:38 PM (GMT -6)   
can syphilis which is a bacteria be sexually transmitted? yup so why couldn't lyme? its unbelievable that the mainstream medical community thinks this is unknown or say there's no solid evidence at this time. actually its not unbelievable since they don't believe that chronic lyme even exists.

i gave it to my wife and i don't think the symptoms showed up for about 6 months when she got major stress from her job at the time then all hell broke loose and she's been ill almost a year. hard to say exactly when she got it but the timelines of me being sick then her correlate fairly well.

my wife before lyme was healthy as a horse. never a cold, never on medication, when she got sick she bounced back in half the time of others. lyme has literally destroyed all that. that's how disabling this disease can be.

i would take this very seriously and think about introducing protection.

abenamou
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   Posted 6/2/2017 1:58 PM (GMT -6)   
Remember when the CDC said Zika couldn't be sexually transmitted, until it was. Don't believe anything doctors or the CDC says. In fact I'd trust this guy more:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3357784/Can-billionaire-John-Caudwell-s-bombshell-theory-right-Phone-tycoon-reveals-ELEVEN-family-crippling-Lyme-disease-believes-s-passed-people-NOT-ticks.html

PeteZa
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   Posted 6/2/2017 2:10 PM (GMT -6)   
We don't know how my husband got lyme. Either from me or out in the back yard. We saw no bull's eye rash, and no ticks. He did have what he thought was a mosquito bite.

He got lyme 8 months after I was healed. He is still treating and is almost all well, thank the Lord.

He knew lyme symptoms because of me and we really jumped on his lyme more quickly with treatment because of the familiarity.
____________

Good Article

mm57553
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Date Joined Jan 2017
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   Posted 6/2/2017 3:00 PM (GMT -6)   
The jury's still out on this, and more research definitely needs to be done. Dr. H (the Lyme guru) says that the chances of it being transmitted sexually are slim to none. Yes, Lyme spirochetes can be found in semen and vaginal secretions, but he says the numbers are so low, and the environment so unfavorable, that the chances of being infected that way are very slim. So, theoretically it's possible. But Dr. H pointed out that theoretically, mosquitoes should be able to transmit HIV, but we know they don't.

Pirouette
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Date Joined Mar 2014
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   Posted 6/2/2017 3:09 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi mm57553 -

Yes Dr H suggests the chances of sexual transmission are "slim to none" but most LLMDs disagree with him. Imagine the "numbers" that could be found in the saliva gland of a tick... and the fluids found in the vaginal cavity or semen sample. I'm not sure why he promotes this rather than caution to be careful.

-p
Lyme Moderator
Chronic late-stage lyme—likely infected in '00; Clinically dx Mar'14 w/ Babs, Fry Labs+ Bart-like, CDC+ Bb. First treated 4-5 viruses & GI/immune. Herbal antimicrobials in May; IV port-started Rocephin in Nov; added vancomycin Mar'16;
DETOX: Pinella/Burbur/Parsley/Milk thistle/Burdock/Red root; Samento/Banderol/Enula; JK/Turmeric; BFM-1; antifung; many many supps; cholestyramine!

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 26387
   Posted 6/2/2017 3:24 PM (GMT -6)   
I didn't know that Dr. H believes that.

I'm pretty sure Dr. J. believes it's likely to be sexually transmitted. (Don't have anything to back it up...just my memory...)
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

mm57553
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Date Joined Jan 2017
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   Posted 6/2/2017 3:54 PM (GMT -6)   
Pirouette said...
Hi mm57553 -

Yes Dr H suggests the chances of sexual transmission are "slim to none" but most LLMDs disagree with him. Imagine the "numbers" that could be found in the saliva gland of a tick... and the fluids found in the vaginal cavity or semen sample. I'm not sure why he promotes this rather than caution to be careful.

-p


I think the difference is that when transmitted from a tick, the bacteria is injected directly into your bloodstream, where it travels quickly to every part of your body, many of which make great breeding grounds. That doesn't happen during sexual activity. So any bacteria is sort of confined to one area, and that area is not a favorable one for borrelia to thrive in. So between the very low numbers and the unfavorable environment, the chances of the bacteria being transmitted that way and surviving are very slim. At least that's the way I remember Dr. H explaining it in a podcast recently.

But I think it is definitely an unknown that needs a whole lot more research.

WV Mike
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 200
   Posted 6/2/2017 3:58 PM (GMT -6)   
OMG I feel terrible! The medical community keeps letting me down over and over. If she gets it from me I don't think I can live with that. Yes she is otherwise healthy except for reynauds syndrome which she has had for many years. I will be watching her closely now and will use protection just to be on the safe side.

Post Edited (WV Mike) : 6/2/2017 4:02:27 PM (GMT-6)


Psilociraptor
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   Posted 6/2/2017 4:23 PM (GMT -6)   
Honestly theres no proof either way. Just because Lyme is related to syphilis (despite being related they are fairly evolutionarily removed) doesn't mean it is an effective STD. Having a corkscrew shape does not guarantee sexual transmission. It's all about how the pathogen has adapted to manipulate host defenses during disease initiation and Lyme has a long evolutionary history with tick saliva helping it enter the host where as syphilis has specialized in human to human transmission. Of course this is just generalizations. This is what doctors like to parrot but that doesn't mean it can't go through other means, especially if some level of immune suppression occurs. Many bacteria are opportunistic and Lyme could certainly fall into that category if given the right context. It has been found in genital secretions. One of it's most ancient modes of transmission is through urine->grazing animal. So it's definitely active down there. And the study that found it in genital secretions also found examples where husband and wife had identical strains suggesting, but not proving, transmission. It could be that they got it because they lived in the same region. Who knows. But my advice is be seriously careful. I refuse to not use protection with my partner. I don't care if it's a 1% chance of transmission. Over the long haul 1% with the same partner is a near guarantee. And the disease is just too serious for me to be able to consciously gamble with. We did have unprotected sex a few times before i knew it was Lyme. Nothing happened. But that doesn't mean it wont

Milocat
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Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 36
   Posted 6/2/2017 4:29 PM (GMT -6)   
I was struggling with this same question around the time I suspected lyme but was still undiagnosed. (I had 3 doctors tell me I couldn't have lyme and all 3 said even if I did, it wasn't sexually transmitted.)
I unfortunately passed lyme (along with some co-infections) to my girlfriend. She started showing symptoms about 3-4 months after I did. She was able to catch it much earlier than me and got tested/treated right away. She was able to keep working at her job and her symptoms were not as extreme as in my case.
Have your wife be on the lookout for any new or weird symptoms!

bluelyme
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Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 4388
   Posted 6/2/2017 6:03 PM (GMT -6)   
Yep my partner has spirochetes in blood with minor symptoms .also my mother has contracted from her husband . Docs are really clueless and its political ...watch under our skin and under the 8 ball documentarys to understand why

also imo the Renauds is just describing a lack of circulation in hands and feet which maybbe caused by lyme and or bartonella .the stings may help her too. She may have traded some pathogens to you too..

Post Edited (bluelyme) : 6/2/2017 6:10:32 PM (GMT-6)


goshawk
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Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 1080
   Posted 6/2/2017 6:22 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi WVMike,,
Something your wife can do is build her immune system, if her immune system is strong she has the best chance of not having any issues.

Have her keep a diary/journal if any symptoms appear even if they seem insignificant at the time. If she does get symptoms start treatment asap.

These are just some ways for you to have some control over this situation and above all...if she does get ill, it's not your fault. How could you or any of us known this until we got Lyme and started searching for answers.

Keep asking questions, keep reading and researching. We can arm ourselves with knowledge and hopefully help others along the way.

Take care, sincerely, Jo

Rikky1
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Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 2411
   Posted 6/2/2017 7:17 PM (GMT -6)   
Dr. J told me personally lyme and many of the co-infections can be transmitted sexually.

bluelyme
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Date Joined Nov 2015
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   Posted 6/2/2017 8:51 PM (GMT -6)   
There is good evidence it can be spread mother to child transplacentally or in breast milk too.how old is your son mike?

gfields
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   Posted 6/2/2017 9:12 PM (GMT -6)   
If you know you have lyme disease, is it unethical to get a new girlfriend or boyfriend? Isn't that the same thing as having sex with someone if you have AIDs or HIV?

I've read that not only is it transmittable by sex, but it can be transmitted through breathing in dehydrated spirochetes. So a bodily fluid that is dried and then inhaled can transmit the disease. There apparently government studies on this, and they found that this is possible.

WV Mike
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Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 200
   Posted 6/2/2017 10:44 PM (GMT -6)   
Blue my son is 21 and my daughter is 17. Wife has been dealing with renauds for at least 12 years. Son is the healthiest person I know. Almost never gets sick and when he does he's over it in a day or two.

10LymeB
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Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 478
   Posted 6/2/2017 11:35 PM (GMT -6)   
My husband tested for Lyme - I believe he did the Igenex test - and came back that he'd been "exposed" to Lyme but that it wasn't any kind of concern. He has no symptoms at all. Whether he got it from me or at the same time on the same trip in Paris...who knows? The doctor seemed to indicate the jury's out. I am concerned for him, but I figure we just play it by ear and keep him healthy in the meantime ;)
*42 yo - Treatment started Nov. 2016 - Bitten by mosquito in Paris 2013
* SIBO (improved) - Candida - Lyme - Babesia - Bartonella - Hashimoto's - EBV - HHV6 - Tinea Versicolor - IBS
* Mostly herbal treatment, Bryon White

mm57553
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Date Joined Jan 2017
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   Posted 6/3/2017 7:38 AM (GMT -6)   
10LymeB said...
My husband tested for Lyme - I believe he did the Igenex test - and came back that he'd been "exposed" to Lyme but that it wasn't any kind of concern. He has no symptoms at all. Whether he got it from me or at the same time on the same trip in Paris...who knows? The doctor seemed to indicate the jury's out. I am concerned for him, but I figure we just play it by ear and keep him healthy in the meantime ;)


There are a lot of doctor's who believe that most people, as many as 90% in endemic areas, have been exposed. Kind of like Epstein Barr. I think 94% of the population will test as being exposed to Epstein Barr, but most of those people will never have been diagnosed with mono and are not sick.

So there are probably millions of people walking around who have been exposed to or even had Lyme, but for some reason never got sick. I think it really all boils down to the immune system and it's ability to keep these infections at bay or fight them back naturally.

I have a relative who remembers being bitten as a kid (we're from PA, so we were all bitten as kids). She distinctly remembers getting a bullseye rash because her mom took her to the doctor. They never did anything to treat it, and it went away. She never got sick. She's now in her 50s, still never been sick a day in her life, and lives a perfectly normal existence. No special diet or anything. She's not a health nut. She has 2 perfectly healthy adult children.

My point is most of our spouses / partners have probably been exposed long before they met us. I think when both spouses get sick, it is most likely triggered by an environmental factor (mold, metals, etc.), since they both live in the same environment.

Traveler
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Date Joined May 2007
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   Posted 6/3/2017 8:04 AM (GMT -6)   
WVMike - have your wife start on astragalus - it should protect her from getting Lyme from any source. Have her start with 1,000 mgs a day in divided doses. If she has any response at all (and I'd suggest she do this anyway since we are coming into the height of tick season) have her slowly move up to 3,000 mgs daily.

The facts are there to support that Lyme is sexually transmitted as well - as someone else said, it's been proven beyond a doubt that it's cousin spirochete, Syphilis, is sexually transmitted. I've read that the Lyme bacteria isn't quite as virulent when sexually transmitted (it doesn't happen always), but that the chances are high enough that anyone that we are having sex with should be protected - because, seriously, we are wishing it on them otherwise if we know and are not doing anything.

Assuming otherwise is burying our heads in the sand, just as IDSA does about their treatments and other aspects of this disease. We need to protect those around us - this is no different than doing tick checks on those we care about daily.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

PeteZa
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   Posted 6/3/2017 8:38 AM (GMT -6)   
I am not sure about taking astragalus by someone with raynaud's disease. You should check that out. Raynaud's can be an autoimmune disease (my uncle has it).

Please check with her doctor and also do some of your own research.

Here is the doc that I like to listen to -- Read the section called other safety concerns.

/www.drweil.com/vitamins-supplements-herbs/herbs/astragalus/
____________

Good Article

bluelyme
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Date Joined Nov 2015
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   Posted 6/3/2017 1:32 PM (GMT -6)   
gfields said...
If you know you have lyme disease, is it unethical to get a new girlfriend or boyfriend? Isn't that the same thing as having sex with someone if you have AIDs or HIV?

I've read that not only is it transmittable by sex, but it can be transmitted through breathing in dehydrated spirochetes. So a bodily fluid that is dried and then inhaled can transmit the disease. There apparently government studies on this, and they found that this is possible.


i tried to tell a few partners i have lyme they seemed unconcerned .i think about how many "cigarettes" and straws" i shared with 100s of people in my rock days it breaks my heart . Even closest friends that have weird symptoms are just like its just ibs and hypoglycemia, or its just r.a. or its just reynauds ..but never go digging for the cause ...likely pathogenic ..

mike is your wife on immunosuppressive drugs or plaquinil ?

WV Mike
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Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 200
   Posted 6/3/2017 2:19 PM (GMT -6)   
No she doesn't take anything. Pretty healthy. Only thing doc at Cleveland clinic told us was to move to a warmer climate or keep her out of the cold. Only bothers her in the winter. She just pretty much hibernates.
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