ORAL SPIROCHETES must be dealt with

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birthdaysuit
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Date Joined Mar 2016
Total Posts : 264
   Posted 6/12/2017 12:54 AM (GMT -6)   
Oral spirochetes; Take two tsp of monolaurin pellets, crush them in your teeth, they will taste like soapy throwup, let dissolve in mouth for 10mins then swallow. Add Strong olive leaf alcohol extract with 20% Hydroxytyrosol (both of these kill lyme better than most antibiotics in vitro. If you have spiros in your mouth, you'll kill them.

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 24534
   Posted 6/12/2017 1:01 AM (GMT -6)   
Birthdaysuit - can you just spit it out after the 10 minutes? Why do you have to swallow them if your killing the spirochete in your mouth?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

magoo2
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Date Joined Mar 2015
Total Posts : 818
   Posted 6/12/2017 6:53 AM (GMT -6)   
I think the major issue is killing the bugs ( spirochete and others) believe the gum line and in the bone not just in your mouth.

ChickenArise
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Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 976
   Posted 6/13/2017 5:04 AM (GMT -6)   
As my last four teeth were visibly rotted from the inside when removed. I am almost certain I deal with this. While still in the mouth, the decay from the outside appeared at the base of the tooth.

Any remaining implant crown is now discolored as if the foreign bodies themselves are also infected. There is discomfort at most remaining lower implant sites.

Oral Spirochetosis Associated with Dental Implants: Important Clues to Systemic Disease

http://tinyurl.com/yaejqkdp
AUG14:Mold Sick.FALL16:Clinical Bart/Borellia.
NOV16:Lung Pain. JAN17:Morg Scalp (resolved)
FEB17: Pupils, throat glow UV light.
Rx:Xanax,Kratom,Ambien
Abx:+Zith +MINO (next: RIF)
S:Stabilized O7. Xylitol
Focus:Morgellons pre fibrous
Proto:Mod Klinghardt
Tx: self

ChickenArise
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Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 976
   Posted 6/15/2017 7:59 PM (GMT -6)   
I did the Dakins Solution swish tonight. I made it half strength from the instructions here:

tinyurl.com/2ososos2

The instructions of most dentist who treat the oral spirochete using this recommend the full strength solution for 2 minutes (or use a water pick with the solution in the reservoir but if you do this make sure you wear clothes you dont care about).

At full strength the recommendation is twice per one week treatment.

At full strength this would likely burn which is not necessarily a bad thing as it would heal. The CO2 laser they use to clean the gums of this, basically burns off a thin layer of the gum which hugs the teeth (gingival sulcus) killing all the bacteria residing there.

At the half strength concoction that I made, it wasnt that bad. I was able to swish it for 3 minutes with no burning. I will likely repeat this with a bit more frequency at half strength.

I have felt like I am on the verge of an infection near the implants on the lower jaw since about 10 days after stopping the Augmentin.

This is another clue that Augmentin hits this thing in the jaw bone.

I must have had it bad if 100 days of Augmentin tid didnt resolve it.

We will see if this improves as if it does I should be able to feel the pain in the area subside this week.

If not then I may need to try at full strength.

Dont wear your favorite T shirt when doing this in case you dribble.

www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-62261/dakins-solution/details#images

Dont swallow this solution but dont fear it either. If any is ingested it turns to salt when it contacts the stomach acid. You dont need to put a lot in your mouth.

A home made solution degrades a bit after 48 hours but I was told it will be useful for a week if kept out of light.

I've also read where thymol would be effective at killing the oral spirochetes.
AUG14:Mold Sick.FALL16:Clinical Bart/Borellia.
NOV16:Lung Pain. JAN17:Morg Scalp (resolved)
FEB17: Pupils, throat glow UV light.
Rx:Xanax,Kratom,Ambien
Abx:+Zith +MINO (next: RIF)
Focus:Morgellons pre fibrous
Proto:Modified Klinghardt
Tx: self

Post Edited (ChickenArise) : 6/15/2017 8:29:19 PM (GMT-6)


Georgia Hunter
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Date Joined May 2012
Total Posts : 1864
   Posted 6/16/2017 3:25 AM (GMT -6)   
They commercially make a Dakin's Half Strength.

Augmentin three times a day won't have any long term effects on spirochetes. Many will alter their shape and won't be susceptible no matter what strength is used. Pulsing would be a better option IMO but still might not be enough. Augmentin is very good with most gram positive bacteria or anything that has a thicker cell wall. Gram negatives and spirochetes can be problematic for it even though you will get some coverage with it.

ChickenArise
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Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 976
   Posted 6/16/2017 2:32 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks GH. After reading your comment I looked closer and it appears youre right, its a start but more is needed.

The bad news in that I was pulsing Tinidazole (similar to Metro mentioned below) 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off for close to the whole time I was on the Augmentin. I also started Biaxin on the same day.

These spirochetes are tough cookies, especially once disseminated.

www.perioimplantadvisory.com/articles/2011/11/systemic-antibiotics-in-the-treatment-of-periodontal-disease.html

I havent been able to locate an overseas dentist with a darkfield microscope even using medical tourism intermediaries, but at this point I doubt they would be able to do much more than what I am doing.

It appears Rifampin has some coverage in the bone but I have only seen this addressed with other antibiotics in the treatment of post surgical osteomyelitis.

(I added Rifampin today with this edit 17jun)

The infection feels deep seated at the base of the implants at the lower jaw. Its not terribly painful but I can feel it after the Dakins seems to be having an effect. Before the Dakins all I could notice was a pending infection at the surface.

After the Dakins I can feel how deep this actually goes.
AUG14:Mold Sick.FALL16:Clinical Bart/Borellia.
NOV16:Lung Pain. JAN17:Morg Scalp (resolved)
FEB17: Pupils, throat glow UV light.
Rx:Xanax,Kratom,Ambien
Abx:+Zith +MINO +RIF
Focus:Morgellons pre fibrous
Proto:Modified Klinghardt
Tx: self

Post Edited (ChickenArise) : 6/17/2017 10:21:07 AM (GMT-6)


ChickenArise
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 976
   Posted 6/17/2017 10:10 AM (GMT -6)   
Although not a study of spirochete infection, this details a novel potential way of treating an implant infection in the jawbone using electrolysis :

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016157&fullSite
AUG14:Mold Sick.FALL16:Clinical Bart/Borellia.
NOV16:Lung Pain. JAN17:Morg Scalp (resolved)
FEB17: Pupils, throat glow UV light.
Rx:Xanax,Kratom,Ambien
Abx:+Zith +MINO +RIF
Focus:Morgellons pre fibrous
Proto:Modified Klinghardt
Tx: self

caramba
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2016
Total Posts : 582
   Posted 6/18/2017 10:47 AM (GMT -6)   
when I looked at getting my mercury fillings removed, I made the mistake of telling one dentist I had lyme. after the initial examination they made every excuse possible to not make my appointment and I had to find a second dentist, to which I didn't share my Lyme condition with.

plan to do the same with my cavitation DDS, I'll blame on "jaw tension"

caramba
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Date Joined Aug 2016
Total Posts : 582
   Posted 6/18/2017 11:02 AM (GMT -6)   
I'm also going to experiment with DMSO. it has been used in dental settings and it does very well against biofilm. I brush with Xylitol based toothpaste.

http://dmsobenefits.blogspot.com/2014/06/dmso-for-tooth-and-gum-disease.html

http://www.health-science-spirit.com/msm.html

I like the fact that you can use DMSO as a carrier to transport other things like Alpha Lipoic Acid etc

Post Edited (caramba) : 6/18/2017 11:10:05 AM (GMT-6)


ChickenArise
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Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 976
   Posted 6/18/2017 1:25 PM (GMT -6)   
Oral Spirochetes and relation to Lyme discussed by Nordquist (8 min):

/www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3AKA46fbRw

caramba said...
I'm also going to experiment with DMSO. it has been used in dental settings and it does very well against biofilm. I brush with Xylitol based toothpaste.

http://dmsobenefits.blogspot.com/2014/06/dmso-for-tooth-and-gum-disease.html

http://www.health-science-spirit.com/msm.html

I like the fact that you can use DMSO as a carrier to transport other things like Alpha Lipoic Acid etc


Interesting. I have not heard of DMSO used orally.
AUG14:Mold Sick.FALL16:Clinical Bart/Borellia.
NOV16:Lung Pain. JAN17:Morg Scalp (resolved)
FEB17: Pupils, throat glow UV light.
Rx:Xanax,Kratom,Ambien
Abx:+Zith +MINO +RIF
Focus:Morgellons pre fibrous
Proto:Modified Klinghardt
Tx: self

Post Edited (ChickenArise) : 6/18/2017 1:30:29 PM (GMT-6)


magoo2
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Date Joined Mar 2015
Total Posts : 818
   Posted 6/18/2017 4:09 PM (GMT -6)   
WOW- very interesting video

Georgia Hunter
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Date Joined May 2012
Total Posts : 1864
   Posted 6/19/2017 4:35 AM (GMT -6)   
Good video Chicken. That is an example of why I say it's more than just Borrelia. It could start with Borrelia and then the oral spirochetes take over. The Borrelia reduces our immune system to the point where it can't handle "regular" bacteria. Through treatment, we can reduce the bacterial load of Borrelia but our immune system still has to deal with the "other" bacteria. Once we get their numbers in check, the Borrelia resurfaces. It's a chronic condition of rotating pathogens.

magoo2
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Date Joined Mar 2015
Total Posts : 818
   Posted 6/19/2017 5:26 AM (GMT -6)   
GH- I think you may have it reversed. Root Canals-Implants-metals in jaw lower immune system then the door is open to lyme and other bugs. Just this mans opinion-all part of a big puzzle-all needs to be addressed

ChickenArise
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 976
   Posted 6/19/2017 11:43 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks guys. I think the similarities warrant a closer look.

Borrelia burgdorferi and Treponema pallidum: a comparison of functional genomics, environmental adaptations, and pathogenic mechanisms

/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC208952/

"In vitro cultivation of B. burgdorferi at various temperatures demonstrates that the spirochete replicates most quickly at 37°C. An increase in temperature to 39°C retards growth significantly, while a 24 hour exposure at 41°C kills all spirochetes in the culture."

Comparison of the genome of the oral pathogen Treponema denticola with other spirochete genomes

www.pnas.org/content/101/15/5646.full.pdf

If we can prevent to conversion to cyst form by any internal or external factor we could seriously uncomplicate the treatment of this invader.

It appears our own macrophages will dissolve the bacteria but leave cysts in its wake.

I see many claims of activity against the cyst form but nothing concrete. I would love to see something concrete.
AUG14:Mold Sick.FALL16:Clinical Bart/Borellia.
NOV16:Lung Pain. JAN17:Morg Scalp (resolved)
FEB17: Pupils, throat glow UV light.
Rx:Xanax,Kratom,Ambien
Abx:+Zith +MINO +RIF
Focus:Morgellons pre fibrous
Proto:Modified Klinghardt
Tx: self

Georgia Hunter
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2012
Total Posts : 1864
   Posted 6/19/2017 5:37 PM (GMT -6)   
magoo2 said...
GH- I think you may have it reversed. Root Canals-Implants-metals in jaw lower immune system then the door is open to lyme and other bugs. Just this mans opinion-all part of a big puzzle-all needs to be addressed


Great point, you are most likely correct. I feel that Borrelia is more virulent than most of the bacteria our body normally has to deal with. It seems to adapt for survival very well where the other bacteria live in the hard to get to places. Those places are both under tooth prosthetics and in the extracellular matrix.

Georgia Hunter
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2012
Total Posts : 1864
   Posted 6/20/2017 5:24 AM (GMT -6)   
Here is something interesting. This long study shows that individual strains of lactobacillus can decrease spirochete growth. If Borrelia reduces our manganese to the point where all lactobacillus compete for limited resources, then all of the strains may not be able to survive. This may allow other spirochetes to flourish. The key to our healing is to return our gut flora back to what they were.

journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0031113

"In this context, it is interesting to note that a recent metagenomic study identified unusually high levels of certain Spirochaetes in the porcine gut, relative to other mammals [21]. Thus the ability of L. salivarius to modulate these levels could be significant."

Could spirochete spores in pork be detrimental to our health? I do know we shouldn't eat pork but I assumed it was because of elevated amounts of long chain fatty acids, sulfur and histamine. Perhaps spores tax our immune system?

ChickenArise
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 976
   Posted 6/20/2017 9:27 AM (GMT -6)   
Georgia Hunter said...
Here is something interesting. This long study shows that individual strains of lactobacillus can decrease spirochete growth. If Borrelia reduces our manganese to the point where all lactobacillus compete for limited resources, then all of the strains may not be able to survive. This may allow other spirochetes to flourish. The key to our healing is to return our gut flora back to what they were.

journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0031113

"In this context, it is interesting to note that a recent metagenomic study identified unusually high levels of certain Spirochaetes in the porcine gut, relative to other mammals [21]. Thus the ability of L. salivarius to modulate these levels could be significant."

Could spirochete spores in pork be detrimental to our health? I do know we shouldn't eat pork but I assumed it was because of elevated amounts of long chain fatty acids, sulfur and histamine. Perhaps spores tax our immune system?



Interesting how populations of Treponema growth were only slowed when compared, and the effect attributed to bacteriocin. As well as the proportion comparison. If only we could ask the participants "How are you feeling today?"

"L. salivarius UCC118 WT administration led to a significant decrease in Spirochaetes levels, the third major phylum in the untreated pig microbiota. In both pigs and mice, L. salivarius UCC118 administration had an effect on Firmicutes genus members. This effect was not observed when the mutant strain was administered, and was thus associated with bacteriocin production. Surprisingly, in both models, L. salivarius UCC118 administration and production of Abp118 had an effect on Gram-negative microorganisms, even though Abp118 is normally not active in vitro against this group of microorganisms"


"In the Bac− group, we observed an intermediate state: the proportion of Spirochaetes tended to increase but to a lesser extent to what occurred in the control group (Fig. 6A and Table S4). After statistical analysis, Spirochaetes proportion in the Bac− pig microbiota was significantly lower compared to that in control pig microbiota when only considering p value, but it did not reach significance after adjustment for multiple testing (p<0.05, Bonferroni correction>0.5). Moreover, Spirochaetes proportion in Bac− pig microbiota was not significantly different from the proportion observed in Bac+ pig microbiota. We observed the same phenomenon at the genus level, where the trend for Treponema (Spirochaetes) evolved in the same way as the whole phylum did (Fig. 6B and Table S4). Treponema proportion was thus significantly lower in microbiota of the Bac+ pigs than in the control pigs (p<0.005, q<0.05). The Treponema proportion of the Bac− pig microbiota was lower compared to the proportion of Treponema in control pigs (p<0.05) but this difference was not significant after multiple testing (q>0.1). Moreover, Treponema proportion in Bac− treated pig microbiota was not significantly different from proportion observed in the Bac+ group"
AUG14:Mold Sick.FALL16:Clinical Bart/Borellia.
NOV16:Lung Pain. JAN17:Morg Scalp (resolved)
FEB17: Pupils, throat glow UV light.
Rx:Xanax,Kratom,Ambien
Abx:+Zith +MINO +RIF
Focus:Morgellons pre fibrous
Proto:Modified Klinghardt
Tx: self

ChickenArise
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 976
   Posted 6/20/2017 9:39 AM (GMT -6)   
Also after 5 days of use of Dakins half strength I notice a decrease in the slight pain in the area but mostly only close the surface. I can still detect inflamation at the base of the implants.

It doesn't seem to be reaching deep enough so I am doubtful increasing strength would have desired effect.

Seems only the ozone, electrolysis, or some other method may. Im not confident in abx ability to prevent spreading of infection.
AUG14:Mold Sick.FALL16:Clinical Bart/Borellia.
NOV16:Lung Pain. JAN17:Morg Scalp (resolved)
FEB17: Pupils, throat glow UV light.
Rx:Xanax,Kratom,Ambien
Abx:+Zith +MINO +RIF
Focus:Morgellons pre fibrous
Proto:Modified Klinghardt
Tx: self
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