Has anybody seen Dr. M in MD (Bart Guy)

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texaslime
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Date Joined Apr 2017
Total Posts : 26
   Posted 6/17/2017 11:16 PM (GMT -6)   
Has anybody seen Dr. M in MD (The Bartonella expert)? How is he? Do you feel he is curing you? what is the protocol he has you on?

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 24534
   Posted 6/17/2017 11:27 PM (GMT -6)   
Texaslime - I do know one forum member who is seeing Dr M.

I will email him and let him know about this thread.

I have seen a webinar with Dr M and another Dr - about Bartonella,

His protocol is Rifampin or Rifabutin plus Biaxin.

I will post a link to the webinar - I believe it's on the Galaxy Lab website.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 24534
   Posted 6/18/2017 12:13 AM (GMT -6)   
Link to the webinar re: Bartonella/Dr. M.


Very informative.


www.galaxydx.com/web/2015/webinar-understanding-bartonella/
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Jackie Moon
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2014
Total Posts : 395
   Posted 6/18/2017 4:11 AM (GMT -6)   
Yes I have been seeing Doctor M for about 14 months. I have been around the circuit of well known LLMDs and they all named him as the most respected on Bartonella. Anything published lately about Bartonella is basically him and his colleagues. He teaches infectious disease at Johns Hopkins as well. His credentials are impressive. I haven't met any Doctor with a stronger grasp of Bartonella specifically.

If you were on Biaxin and rifampin that is his protocol from research that he teaches other LLMDs. He does ALOT of other supportive therapy too. Honestly the supportive therapy like correcting thyroid, cortisol, and other deficiencies has made a bigger difference for me in dealing with treatment.

However 1. He is expensive 2. If you are person susceptible to Bartonella and think you will get rid of it in 6 months it's just not happening so you have to be committed follow the treatment all through.

As far as progress I am much better but not all the way back. Then of course once Bartonella goes bye bye I will have to monitor it to make sure it doesn't pop up again. Bartonella definitely tests your patience

summer16
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Date Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts : 1228
   Posted 6/18/2017 7:50 AM (GMT -6)   
Jackie Moon, how has he treated your cotisol issues?

lymehater
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Date Joined Jan 2016
Total Posts : 283
   Posted 6/19/2017 7:20 AM (GMT -6)   

TOOTY
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Date Joined Apr 2014
Total Posts : 216
   Posted 6/19/2017 12:42 PM (GMT -6)   
His protocol is pretty widely known now, and I would not recommend seeing him for various reasons I don't feel comfortable posting on a public forum. Suffice it to say, I personally have been to him and found him to be disappointing and very expensive. This was the experience of two others I have talked with, too.

I strongly recommend using a LLMD (Dr. M is not) that you have a good experience with to do his (Dr. M's) treatment protocol. Some get well with his plan, but others do not, so it's important to explore all testing and treatment options with a doctor with lots of general Lyme treatment experience who is workable and open to things. Rifampin/Rifabutin with Biaxin is not the end all/be all for Bartonellosis and it's good to have a doctor willing to explore more in depth if Bart treatment does not get you well.

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 24534
   Posted 6/19/2017 12:52 PM (GMT -6)   
TOOTY said...
His protocol is pretty widely known now, and I would not recommend seeing him for various reasons I don't feel comfortable posting on a public forum. Suffice it to say, I personally have been to him and found him to be disappointing and very expensive. This was the experience of two others I have talked with, too.

I strongly recommend using a LLMD (Dr. M is not) that you have a good experience with to do his (Dr. M's) treatment protocol. Some get well with his plan, but others do not, so it's important to explore all testing and treatment options with a doctor with lots of general Lyme treatment experience who is workable and open to things. Rifampin/Rifabutin with Biaxin is not the end all/be all for Bartonellosis and it's good to have a doctor willing to explore more in depth if Bart treatment does not get you well.


I was under the impression he is a LLMD. Why do you say that he isn't?

His webinar is on ILADS:

www.ilads.org/media/washingtondc/videos/videos_B_Robert_Mozayeni_MD.php
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

TOOTY
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2014
Total Posts : 216
   Posted 6/19/2017 1:17 PM (GMT -6)   
He is on ILADS because he is an authority on Bartonellosis- one of the Big Three (Borrelia, Babs, & Bart). That's all. Ask how many patients have been to him for Bb treatment..... I don't know if you will find any. He is not a true LLMD. I tested negative for Bb by the C6 peptide test and he was not willing to treat it. I know from others that he relies on this test. I don't know what he would do with an Igenex western blot. Would you have to be positive on 5 bands for him to treat? Likely. I will not argue about it on a public forum. I know enough about him and have heard enough from others that I know he is not a LLMD. A Bartonella specialist, yes, but not a LLMD. And, there are enough Bart treatment failures by him that I don't think he has the whole picture.

Girlie
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Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 24534
   Posted 6/19/2017 1:44 PM (GMT -6)   
Tooty - I do know someone who said he treats all three B's. I haven't discussed this at length, though.

hmm ...intersting what you say, though. certainly cause for pausing....


Well, if we go by bartonella treatment failures...then there would be many LLMD's...to add...

...are you saying once there is failure...he doesn't continue to treat...and sleuth out what else is going on?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Post Edited (Girlie) : 6/19/2017 1:47:45 PM (GMT-6)


TOOTY
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2014
Total Posts : 216
   Posted 6/19/2017 2:00 PM (GMT -6)   
Girlie said...
Tooty - I do know someone who said he treats all three B's.


Infectious disease specialists treat all 3 as well.....

If a doctor is not willing to address Lyme because of a negative C6 Peptide test, but the patient can see it in their blood, that doc is not a true LLMD. Interestingly, afterwards, a Lyme Western Blot test was CDC-positve.....

I would like to see evidence that Dr. M treats Lyme disease based on a clinical diagnosis alone. Have your friend share.

TOOTY
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2014
Total Posts : 216
   Posted 6/19/2017 2:13 PM (GMT -6)   
Girlie said...
Tooty - I do know someone who said he treats all three B's. I haven't discussed this at length, though.

hmm ...intersting what you say, though. certainly cause for pausing....


Well, if we go by bartonella treatment failures...then there would be many LLMD's...to add...

...are you saying once there is failure...he doesn't continue to treat...and sleuth out what else is going on?


I started my reply before you edited. In reply to your question, yes. His focus, for various reasons, seems to be pretty narrow. That's understandable if you are a Bart specialist. All I'm saying is that he doesn't treat like a true LLMD, and he is not one. The cases I'm familiar with he was not willing to address the entrenched Lyme infection. I believe it's because it's too dangerous to treat chronic Lyme disease in the current medical climate. I don't blame him, he has a lot at stake. He's very successful in his field. To lose his license would be devastating to his Bartonella research. But, please don't call him an LLMD. I feel most Lyme patients (Bart patients included) would be better served elsewhere.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 24534
   Posted 6/19/2017 2:29 PM (GMT -6)   
TOOTY said...
Girlie said...
Tooty - I do know someone who said he treats all three B's. I haven't discussed this at length, though.

hmm ...intersting what you say, though. certainly cause for pausing....


Well, if we go by bartonella treatment failures...then there would be many LLMD's...to add...

...are you saying once there is failure...he doesn't continue to treat...and sleuth out what else is going on?


I started my reply before you edited. In reply to your question, yes. His focus, for various reasons, seems to be pretty narrow. That's understandable if you are a Bart specialist. All I'm saying is that he doesn't treat like a true LLMD, and he is not one. The cases I'm familiar with he was not willing to address the entrenched Lyme infection. I believe it's because it's too dangerous to treat chronic Lyme disease in the current medical climate. I don't blame him, he has a lot at stake. He's very successful in his field. To lose his license would be devastating to his Bartonella research. But, please don't call him an LLMD. I feel most Lyme patients (Bart patients included) would be better served elsewhere.


I guess my concern is that there are many LLMD's who ignore one of the infections...

I know patients who were treated for Lyme and bart only (when talking about the 3 B's) and they got to almost symptom free and didn't consider babesia. Some are forum members...others' I know from other lyme groups. Some went on to self-treat babs and got to full healing...others are 'putting up' with their lingering symptoms.

Dr. J. and Dr. H. say you need to consider that there could be an asymptomatic infection. And I believe both those Dr.'s will treat all three B's regardless.

So, do we say that the others' aren't LLMD's? That's what I'm wondering.

(Not trying to argue...but I just don't think Dr. M is the only "LLMD" that doesn't treat all the B's when their patients aren't at full healing - so wondering if we should be crossing him off our 'list')

I'm sure you can appreciate what I am saying?

(But, I have to admit that not treating Bb is strange for a LLMD (and negligent...)
I guess he figures the biaxin is enough...?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Post Edited (Girlie) : 6/19/2017 3:12:23 PM (GMT-6)


TOOTY
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2014
Total Posts : 216
   Posted 6/19/2017 3:27 PM (GMT -6)   
Girlie, I have first-hand experience and know personally of 2 other cases. That is what "texaslime" was asking for--experiences. I am saying "nay" about Dr. M and giving some reasons why without going into too much detail. The detail would be less flattering. I have been to numerous lyme-literate doctors (all are doctors who only or mainly treat tick-borne infections) and I know all LLMDs have their strong points and weaknesses. I'm just saying that, all things considered, Dr. M would be the last one I'd go to now. In fact, I would choose not to go. If I needed his treatment, I would work through another doctor and use his protocol.

The main thing that differentiates an LLMD from a non-LLMD is the fact that they are willing to treat based on clinical evidence alone. Dr. M will not. Not with any of the infections. That may be smart, and that may be stupid. But, considering that serology is still less than full-proof, especially concerning Lyme, I prefer a doctor who is a true LLMD, and I can only feel good recommending such.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 24534
   Posted 6/19/2017 3:30 PM (GMT -6)   
TOOTY said...
Girlie, I have first-hand experience and know personally of 2 other cases. That is what "texaslime" was asking for--experiences. I am saying "nay" about Dr. M and giving some reasons why without going into too much detail. The detail would be less flattering. I have been to numerous lyme-literate doctors (all are doctors who only or mainly treat tick-borne infections) and I know all LLMDs have their strong points and weaknesses. I'm just saying that, all things considered, Dr. M would be the last one I'd go to now. In fact, I would choose not to go. If I needed his treatment, I would work through another doctor and use his protocol.


Fair enough. I respect your opinion.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

texaslime
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2017
Total Posts : 26
   Posted 6/23/2017 12:26 AM (GMT -6)   
TOOTY said...
Girlie, I have first-hand experience and know personally of 2 other cases. That is what "texaslime" was asking for--experiences. I am saying "nay" about Dr. M and giving some reasons why without going into too much detail. The detail would be less flattering. I have been to numerous lyme-literate doctors (all are doctors who only or mainly treat tick-borne infections) and I know all LLMDs have their strong points and weaknesses. I'm just saying that, all things considered, Dr. M would be the last one I'd go to now. In fact, I would choose not to go. If I needed his treatment, I would work through another doctor and use his protocol.

The main thing that differentiates an LLMD from a non-LLMD is the fact that they are willing to treat based on clinical evidence alone. Dr. M will not. Not with any of the infections. That may be smart, and that may be stupid. But, considering that serology is still less than full-proof, especially concerning Lyme, I prefer a doctor who is a true LLMD, and I can only feel good recommending such.


It is very concerning if what you say is true. I have really severe bartonella-like symptoms, and based on how sick I became, I have a really hard time believing that I don't have lyme underneath it all (even though I've had a fully negative western blot, and completely negative DNA connexions test). I mean I had systemic parasites living in me, it got so bad. I have heard from Dr. K that you need to treat lyme first before you can mount a proper antibody response, and if Dr. M isn't willing to treat seronegative lyme that could be a major problem. Would you mind emailing me more in detail your experience with Dr. M? He is my top choice as of now, but that may change.

TOOTY
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2014
Total Posts : 216
   Posted 6/23/2017 3:59 PM (GMT -6)   
texaslime said...
It is very concerning if what you say is true. I have really severe bartonella-like symptoms, and based on how sick I became, I have a really hard time believing that I don't have lyme underneath it all (even though I've had a fully negative western blot, and completely negative DNA connexions test). I mean I had systemic parasites living in me, it got so bad. I have heard from Dr. K that you need to treat lyme first before you can mount a proper antibody response, and if Dr. M isn't willing to treat seronegative lyme that could be a major problem. Would you mind emailing me more in detail your experience with Dr. M? He is my top choice as of now, but that may change.


I am sure he will not be willing to treat a seronegative Lyme patient. Why don't you find a reputable (Lyme) LLMD that will treat your Bartonellosis using Dr. M's protocol? I would think most LLMDs should know his protocol by now. The video linked above has his basic ABX protocol mentioned if I remember correctly. He is not the only doctor successfully treating Bartonellosis.

I am not willing to email using a personal email address unless it's to someone I know fairly well. It is unfortunate that healingwell does not have a private messaging feature. What I have said was not necessarily the nitty-gritty details, but should be enough to give you an idea on the way he treats. I am not trying to create a smear campaign against him. But, another thing I will tell you is that it is almost impossible to get a hold of him if you have a problem during treatment (whether during normal office hours or not), and he definitely can't be reached on the weekends. No way! He is very insulated from his patients. If you need to speak one word to him, you have to set up another appointment!

You probably only got the Lyme-specific serology tests. But other strains such as Borrelia miyamotoi and mayonii, etc., cause a Lyme-like illness and are not generally tested for. So, it's possible you have a different strain, and without testing for each one, it will be assumed you don't have "Lyme." A quick and easy way to check for Borrelia in your blood is to use a microscope and check for yourself. It can be seen with brightfield at 1000x, or with darkfield and phase contrast at 400x. Unfortunately it's going to be difficult to find a doctor who will treat you based on this observation alone, but if you find a true LLMD, he/she will treat based on a clinical basis alone.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 24534
   Posted 6/23/2017 4:18 PM (GMT -6)   
texaslime said...
TOOTY said...
Girlie, I have first-hand experience and know personally of 2 other cases. That is what "texaslime" was asking for--experiences. I am saying "nay" about Dr. M and giving some reasons why without going into too much detail. The detail would be less flattering. I have been to numerous lyme-literate doctors (all are doctors who only or mainly treat tick-borne infections) and I know all LLMDs have their strong points and weaknesses. I'm just saying that, all things considered, Dr. M would be the last one I'd go to now. In fact, I would choose not to go. If I needed his treatment, I would work through another doctor and use his protocol.

The main thing that differentiates an LLMD from a non-LLMD is the fact that they are willing to treat based on clinical evidence alone. Dr. M will not. Not with any of the infections. That may be smart, and that may be stupid. But, considering that serology is still less than full-proof, especially concerning Lyme, I prefer a doctor who is a true LLMD, and I can only feel good recommending such.


It is very concerning if what you say is true. I have really severe bartonella-like symptoms, and based on how sick I became, I have a really hard time believing that I don't have lyme underneath it all (even though I've had a fully negative western blot, and completely negative DNA connexions test). I mean I had systemic parasites living in me, it got so bad. I have heard from Dr. K that you need to treat lyme first before you can mount a proper antibody response, and if Dr. M isn't willing to treat seronegative lyme that could be a major problem. Would you mind emailing me more in detail your experience with Dr. M? He is my top choice as of now, but that may change.


Remember that with the bart treatment - often lyme is treated at the same time. Biaxin is a good med for lyme. Although we usually are on more than one 'lyme' antibiotic during our treatment time.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi
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