Stevia for Lyme better than abx

New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> ]

Rikky1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 2332
   Posted 7/13/2017 6:50 PM (GMT -6)   
So this research was done 2 years ago yet the major news outlets are now just starting to publish it? Figures. Curious more details about how they'll start human trials in Dr. H's clinic in Hyde Park.

nypost.com/2017/07/13/stevia-is-the-best-treatment-for-lyme-disease-researchers-say/

goshawk
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 924
   Posted 7/13/2017 7:16 PM (GMT -6)   
I read that also today. The part that sticks out is that they are going to do the trials at Dr H like you said.

Interesting , I never tried stevia although I have heard about others using it.

Eva Sapi and her researchers are at least trying to figure out how to help us. I listened to her at a teleconference at the morgellons conference in Austin TX this past may. She and her help are very dedicated to finding answers.

summer16
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts : 1251
   Posted 7/13/2017 7:21 PM (GMT -6)   
Very interesting. Wonder how much Stevia is needed.

dacarte3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 1335
   Posted 7/13/2017 7:30 PM (GMT -6)   
Wow I googled JUST "Stevia" and like 5 articles about it being a possible cure popped up. It was literally the next set of links AFTER Stevia.com

Interesting that it actually worked in vitro. I guess we'll find out in vivo.
Positive for Lyme (Igenex), Ehrlichia (Igenex), and Mycoplasma (Labcorp)

ABX Treatment: 03/2016-04/2016
Buhner Protocol for Lyme and Mycoplasma: May 2016 - Dec. 2016

95% Symptom Free. Now repairing the body: Thyroid health and physical therapy

dacarte3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 1335
   Posted 7/13/2017 7:40 PM (GMT -6)   
Here's the research 2 years ago:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4681354/

This is good news. I hope they do the in vitro testing soon.
Positive for Lyme (Igenex), Ehrlichia (Igenex), and Mycoplasma (Labcorp)

ABX Treatment: 03/2016-04/2016
Buhner Protocol for Lyme and Mycoplasma: May 2016 - Dec. 2016

95% Symptom Free. Now repairing the body: Thyroid health and physical therapy

dacarte3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 1335
   Posted 7/13/2017 7:42 PM (GMT -6)   
Not to spam this thread by why after a year and half of lyme research am I just learning about this!
Positive for Lyme (Igenex), Ehrlichia (Igenex), and Mycoplasma (Labcorp)

ABX Treatment: 03/2016-04/2016
Buhner Protocol for Lyme and Mycoplasma: May 2016 - Dec. 2016

95% Symptom Free. Now repairing the body: Thyroid health and physical therapy

k07
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2015
Total Posts : 1978
   Posted 7/13/2017 7:51 PM (GMT -6)   
I see dr. H but haven't heard anything about the trial. I was told to take 15 drops for biofilm though (2x a day).

Also, klinghardt's favorite biopure cocktail has stevia in it.

dacarte3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 1335
   Posted 7/13/2017 8:18 PM (GMT -6)   
k07 said...
I see dr. H but haven't heard anything about the trial. I was told to take 15 drops for biofilm though (2x a day).

Also, klinghardt's favorite biopure cocktail has stevia in it.


Now that I know the dosage I will be getting some.

Thanks k07

Village Crazy Lady
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 321
   Posted 7/13/2017 8:47 PM (GMT -6)   
Just a warning tho, like all others, start with one drop a day and work up.
Stevia (nutramedix) can hurt.

I've only made it to 6 drops once a day going up every 5 days and the crunchy painful "meningitis" neck is back in full force for me.
~~~Your Life is an Occasion, Rise to It ~~~

Lyme,Bart,Molds,Candida,Cpn,Ebv,MTHFR,Myco, Lead
Symptoms for years and years, Diag 6/2016, LLMD 10/2016
Treating with Abx and company

PeteZa
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 8672
   Posted 7/13/2017 9:19 PM (GMT -6)   
If I find a tick on me, I am going to go get antibiotics, not stevia. Sorry.

Here is Buhner's take on stevia for lyme. buhnerhealinglyme.com/herbs/stevia/

Here's is Dr. Rawls' take on stevia for lyme. /rawlsmd.com/health-articles/can-stevia-treat-lyme-disease
____________

Good Article

Village Crazy Lady
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 321
   Posted 7/13/2017 9:25 PM (GMT -6)   
My doc uses Stevia with the antibiotics

bluelyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 4378
   Posted 7/14/2017 3:08 AM (GMT -6)   
Sapi was quoted saying stevia and bee venom get lyme biofilm...buhner doesnt think stevia can get to high enough levels in vivo. Breaking up biofilm without sufficient killers on board can lead to worsening of symptoms imo

mpost
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 992
   Posted 7/14/2017 3:09 AM (GMT -6)   
i am using stevia in large amounts , daily, and one of the "wonderful" brands tested by Eva sapi. The NOW stevia, with alcohol extract. I take at least 60 drops per day, basically sweeten all my tea and coffee with it and i drink a lot of tea...

have not noticed a herx, not anything. it is sweet, which is nice.

what i noticed is i haven't had one single cavity in my mouth in the last 2 years, none. no pain. i know xylitol is also used as sweetener for tootpaste and there there are studies showing it has antimicrobial effects on some bacteria in the mouth. This is another sweetener so it would not be shocking to find out it also can trick bacteria, which confuse stevia for sugar, try to eat it then they die.


but.... it's NOT SYSTEMIC, so it may help the gut, but it will not kill your biofilms and lyme in the brain.

Eva Sapi's work is interesting but they dont have enough money nor manpower to do real research over these chemicals. A year ago she was very happy she received a microscope as a donation.... This is not how you find a lyme cure. Don't get me wrong, i hope she gets more funding, but she does not have it now....

The most powerful groups now on lyme research are Dr. Kim Lewis' group and Dr. Ying Zhang's group. They do real research.

I am not sure why this has got so much press coverage, maybe they are trying to reach out for more $$ ...

dacarte3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 1335
   Posted 7/14/2017 5:53 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for the additional feedback. So much for the Stevia.
Positive for Lyme (Igenex), Ehrlichia (Igenex), and Mycoplasma (Labcorp)

ABX Treatment: 03/2016-04/2016
Buhner Protocol for Lyme and Mycoplasma: May 2016 - Dec. 2016

95% Symptom Free. Now repairing the body: Thyroid health and physical therapy

k07
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2015
Total Posts : 1978
   Posted 7/14/2017 6:50 AM (GMT -6)   
I don't think it will hurt to add it in. It's a nice treat to have something sweet! I will squeeze a lemon in a glass of water and add the drops. My kids love it too. I also put 3-4 drops in coffee. So if it does break up biofilm even just in mouth/stomach then it's worth it. I use nutramedix.

1000Daisies
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2016
Total Posts : 1876
   Posted 7/14/2017 6:57 AM (GMT -6)   
We have had numerous threads about Stevia here.

As I've said before, we did a trial of Stevia for several weeks. It did nothing (good or bad) for us. My functional medicine MD said he sees good things from using Stevia now with his patients. I talked to somebody who was very effected by just one drop of it. For us - it literally did nothing.

So, we moved on. smile

I will sometimes add Stevia to my herbals in water when I want to "dull" out the bad taste.
Kid#1: Extremely sick for several years, very difficult to treat, but doing great now!
Kid#2: Very sick now despite being treated for years, still very bad
Kid#3: Generally good but relapsing off/on.
Me: Adv Labs positive 2016 (suspected I passed to my kids)-not as sick as others, mostly battling fatigue and yeast issues (heart/kidney issues resolved)
Treating with herbals now.

k07
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2015
Total Posts : 1978
   Posted 7/16/2017 5:52 AM (GMT -6)   
Dr. H just posted something on his FB page about this. He says clinical trials in his office are stevia combined with tetracycline, rif, dapsone for biofilm.

mpost
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 992
   Posted 7/16/2017 6:49 AM (GMT -6)   
guys,

www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3535465

been testing this for 2 years, i take 60 drops a day of NOW alcohol extract used in Sapi's paper.

it's not a cure. furher , after taking it with herbs for 1yr, i took amoxicillin for strep throat and in 4 days i was in full brain herx.

if u now think i should have taken Nutramedix, k07 used nutramedix and started the same time as me. we are still here on this forum and not cured....

Pirouette
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5480
   Posted 7/16/2017 10:07 AM (GMT -6)   
Good discussion. I've also used stevia multiple times at different doses off-and-on and felt absolutely nothing. But I hope the research reveals something...

-p
Lyme Moderator
Chronic late-stage lyme—likely infected in '00; Clinically dx Mar'14 w/ Babs, Fry Labs+ Bart-like, CDC+ Bb. First treated 4-5 viruses & GI/immune. Herbal antimicrobials in May; IV port-started Rocephin in Nov; added vancomycin Mar'16;
DETOX: Pinella/Burbur/Parsley/Milk thistle/Burdock/Red root; Samento/Banderol/Enula; JK/Turmeric; BFM-1; antifung; many many supps; cholestyramine!

Irishlymie
New Member


Date Joined Jul 2017
Total Posts : 4
   Posted 7/16/2017 10:55 AM (GMT -6)   
Dr. Horowitz has been misquoted/misrepresented.

this quote from his facebook:

This misleading article was just published in the Daily Mail. Unfortunately, the reporter did NOT accurately report my comments. No one is claiming Stevia is a cure for Lyme disease. The research that I am doing in my office on Stevia as a biofilm buster, also involves using it with tetracyclines, rifampin, Dapsone and other medications/herbal protocols to hit different forms of borrelia. I am having success with that protocol, and told that to the reporter, yet she never included it in the article.
Dr Sapi has found that the triple combination of doxy, rifampin *(which also acts as a biofilm buster) and Dapsone was one of the most effective combinations for lowering borrelia biofilms. Dr Sapi reported those results at the last ILADS conference in the fall of 2016 and I published my results in the peer reviewed medical literature last year. Dr Zhang from Johns Hopkins has also found that certain sulfa drugs like Dapsone were effective against borrelia. His research showed that "sulfa drugs combined with other antibiotics were more active than their respective single drugs and that four-drug combinations were more active than three-drug combinations". That is exactly what I have been finding in my chronically ill patients who have failed traditional protocols.
Chapter three "Lyme Disease Specifics and Treatment Options" and chapter 4 of "How Can I Get Better?" titled “Persisters” and Pulsing for Treating Resistant Lyme Disease" discuss these results in detail. These chapters explain the new research that I and others are doing to try and find answers for those suffering with chronic tick-borne illness. My new book has over 800 medical references in the addendum, discussing the science behind the 16 point MSIDS model that I have used to help patients during the past 30 years. It is unfortunate that certain mainstream media outlets do not always accurately and comprehensively report all of the scientific facts.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/…/Stevia-CURE-Lyme-disease-bette…

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 25387
   Posted 7/16/2017 11:18 AM (GMT -6)   
4 drug combinations...


Although - I guess many of us are doing three already. eg Mino/Rifampin/Tinidazole or Mepron/mino/tinidazole.

Heck - what's one more?

Can always do the 4th one on different days than the tinidazole....so there's only 3 on any given day.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Post Edited (Girlie) : 7/16/2017 8:24:29 PM (GMT-6)


julymorning
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 3807
   Posted 7/16/2017 8:20 PM (GMT -6)   
Traveler told us many times that Stevia alone would not 'cure' Lyme, and that it changes once it goes through the digestive tract. It is going to have a better impact in the mouth where it first lands, for that reason.

I was so disappointed to hear that last year after acquiring a whole bunch of Stevia plants. I maintained one inside over the Winter and it's flourishing out doors. The leaves are easy to dry and crumble and save for use, but I don't expect it to do much for my Lyme.

It's just really nice to have a sweetener that isn't harmful! And isn't as expensive as xylitol.
Moderator, Lyme Forum

Fibro diagnosed '85 Lyme (false?)positive '92,Osteoporosis, COPD, Hypertension, degen. disc disease, RMSF pos. Spring 2015, CHF, osteoarthritis. No LLMD. Used Doxy, Zithro and Flagyl s2015-16, mono each time. Useless. Current treatment JK, Milk Thistle, kudzu for head fullness/pressure, avena sativa for nerves, Lion's mane, Green Tea caps, Bragg's ACV, lemon water, chartab

Mustard Seed
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2016
Total Posts : 1087
   Posted 7/16/2017 9:07 PM (GMT -6)   
Peteza and Blue both mentioned this, but here's the quoted response from Buhner:

I have a short response in the second printing (and later) of the second edition of Healing Lyme (I had to squeeze it in). The study, in my opinion, is useless and misleading,. Here are a few of the reasons why (I have similar problems with most of the New Haven group’s studies — though this does seem to be the first one they got a journal to accept):

1) The study is in vitro and hence has nothing to do with how the herb will actually work in a living body. It is not possible to extrapolate from a single in vitro study UNLESS there is corresponding data from centuries of historical use, etc (e.g. clinical use and so on).

2) Stevia is not a very systemic herb. To work in a live body against infection, especially with Borrelia, an herb has to be VERY systemic, that is it has to spread widely in the body, especially in hard-to-reach places. Stevia does not.

3) We have over a decade of clinical experience with stevia in the treatment of lyme disease; we suggest it as a supportive herb for a number of problems (blood glucose, etc). We have not seen ANY antimicrobial effects in clinical practice. NONE. However, the herb, because of effects on the GI tract, does help increase the bioavailability of herbs and pharmaceuticals (as does licorice, for example), as such it can help make antibacterials more effective.

4) The herb is also touted as helping break up biofilms. NOTE: Most herbs contain substances that help break up biofilms; plants figured out how to do that millions of years ago. Plants get sick, just like us, they can’t go to the doctor, they can’t call a medic, they have to treat their own diseases by figuring out what is wrong and crafting substances to deal with the infections they have. Part of the reason they are better than drugs is that they contain multiple substances that they have created to deal with bacteria – they had to deal with bacteria long before our species even existed, so they created antibacterials; they had to deal with bacterial resistance long ago so they create anti-resistance chemicals; they had to deal with biofilms so they created biofilm breaking agents, and so on. There is a list of perhaps 40 herbs that break up biofilms in the second edition of Healing Lyme, this is by no means exhaustive. ALL plants break up biofilms to varying extents.

So, in short, this study is not groundbreaking, it is not news, it is not the antibacterial cureall for lyme disease. Further, given the massive data on Borrelia from exhaustive research the past decades, including some of the really good work that has been done by other researchers, the study is not really all that good. (I have read, at a conservative estimate, some 30,000 journal articles on bacteria, viruses, and herbs over the past 5 years, many of them are listed in the bibliographies in my last 5 medical herbals. Some of the bibliographies run rather long, in Healing Lyme alone it is over 50 pages long.).

Stephen

Village Crazy Lady
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 321
   Posted 7/16/2017 9:14 PM (GMT -6)   
Just going to add this personal exp in the last 4 days. I was told I could stop all antibiotics Tuesday until I started the new abx plan on Monday and to stay at the 6 drops of Nutramedix Stevia, not to increase because I could feel the burn.

No abx at all and this has been the worst 4 days. No relief at all.
I'm guessing the bubbles are bursting and the fresh bugs are having a field day.

For me;
1) it reinforces that there are plenty of bugs hiding in the trenches completely unaffected by the 7 months of war already inflicted
2) I'll never stop abx again without being off Stevia first for a week or two to keep them shut up tight.

just my 7 cents worth.

keep on keepin on yall

vcl
~~~Your Life is an Occasion, Rise to It ~~~

Lyme,Bart,Molds,Candida,Cpn,Ebv,MTHFR,Myco, Lead
Symptoms for years and years, Diag 6/2016, LLMD 10/2016
Treating with Abx and company
New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
Forum Information
Currently it is Thursday, September 21, 2017 2:26 AM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 2,871,114 posts in 315,075 threads.
View Active Threads


Who's Online
This forum has 156581 registered members. Please welcome our newest member, jamaseny.
256 Guest(s), 3 Registered Member(s) are currently online.  Details
Gemlin, malman, MAF249


Follow HealingWell.com on Facebook  Follow HealingWell.com on Twitter  Follow HealingWell.com on Pinterest
Advertisement
Advertisement

©1996-2017 HealingWell.com LLC  All rights reserved.

Advertise | Privacy Policy & Disclaimer