More fake news from NPR...

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gfields
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   Posted 9/13/2017 5:16 PM (GMT -6)   
http://www.npr.org/2012/05/25/153709186/tick-talk-lyme-disease-under-the-microscope

DANKOSKY: So how exactly is Lyme disease transmitted to humans? And maybe you can explain this. Dr. Mather, I'll go to you first, and then maybe Dr. Schaffner, you can jump in there.

MATHER: Well, so people get Lyme disease after they're bitten by a tick. The ticks carry pathogens that they pick up from reservoir hosts. So it's a bit of a complex life cycle, in a sense. There are two - I'm going to have to describe two groups of animals involved in this.

There's a group of animals that just provides blood for the adult-stage deer tick, or Western black-legged tick. Those are white-tailed deer, for the most part. They'll feed on dogs. They'll feed on cats, but the populations are really supported by feeding on deer.

But the deer don't infect these ticks. The deer probably infected themselves, but they don't have enough of a dose of the pathogens to infect the ticks. So they provide blood. The blood is used by the adult ticks to reproduce, to lay eggs. They can lay 1,500 or 2,000 eggs, each tick.


.... How exactly do deer infect themselves?! I'd love to know. And deer don't transmit lyme disease to ticks? Come on!

PeteZa
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   Posted 9/13/2017 5:24 PM (GMT -6)   
I thought I read that deer carry the ticks through the woods, but don't necessarily have lyme disease themselves.

The ticks get the lyme from the mice. Ticks contract it as larvae when they feed on infected mice.

I think in some areas they were killing deer to help rid the area of lyme disease and there was no reduction of lyme cases because the squirrels and mice were still transporting ticks throughout the area.

Am I wrong in all of this?
____________

Good Article

gfields
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   Posted 9/13/2017 5:37 PM (GMT -6)   
I don't know. I have trouble believing that spirochetes would be picky about their host. I think every animal in the woods has lyme disease. If a spirochete enters the blood stream, it enters the blood stream. I'm no scientist though!

ChickenArise
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   Posted 9/13/2017 5:42 PM (GMT -6)   
Every authority begins with "Lyme is a tick borne disease". The tick is getting infected from somewhere. Blood from animals regardless of the animal makes the most sense to me.

Occam's Razor logic I think.

I doubt ticks are factories or origin points for these bacteria. Makes more sense that they are also infected.
AUG14:Mold Sick.FALL16:Clinical Bart/Borellia/Yeast
NOV16:Lung Pain. JAN17:Morg Scalp (resolved)
FEB17: Pupils, throat glow UV light.
Rx: Abx Break, Probiotic Rebuild, FLZ q72hr
Sup: Ozone, Magnets, Dental implants removed
Proto:Modified Klinghardt
Tx: self

astroman
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   Posted 9/13/2017 5:47 PM (GMT -6)   
Petza- yes it starts from mice.

I think most ticks only feed twice in a lifetime.(?)

Larvae feed on mice, then as egg laying adults on a larger host, deer, dog, human whatever. Lay eggs, then die.

gfields
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   Posted 9/13/2017 6:14 PM (GMT -6)   
But don't people find larvae on themselves after they walk in the woods? Isn't that what those super tiny, tiny ones are?

dacarte3
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   Posted 9/13/2017 7:34 PM (GMT -6)   
Well parasitic bacteria jumps from host to host. They don't just chill and hangout in the outside world. So there is no "ground zero" host point of origin.

Something like borrelia and Mycoplasma have been around longer than most present-day life forms. Jumping from host to host through blood.

If larve feed off of an infected human and then bit another organism that organism would get Lyme.

The tick is just the mode of transfer, it doesn't matter what organism to what organism at the end of the day.

There's really no point in pondering where it "starts". It started when they came into existence millions of years ago.
Lyme (Igenex) - Positive IFA and WB bands 23, 31, 41
Ehrlichia (Igenex)
Mycoplasma (Labcorp) - Score: 595

ABX Treatment: 03/2016-04/2016; 7/2017-9/2017
Buhner Protocol for Lyme and Mycoplasma: May 2016 - Dec. 2016; 8/2017 - Present

ChickenArise
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   Posted 9/13/2017 11:41 PM (GMT -6)   
dacarte3 said...

There's really no point in pondering where it "starts". It started when they came into existence millions of years ago.


or when genetically modified organisms were commercialized for crop pest control thirty years ago which is about when these emerging organisms, which were with us millions of years ago, for some reason transformed into hostile super bugs that cause all of us much more pain in what seems to be a concerted effort on the part of these organisms.

This has culminated with strange happenings such as Funelliformis Mossae a well known fungus well documented as only affecting plants, until April of 2017 when Dr. Fry and others disclosed for the first time ever in a Pubmed article that this fungus was found in the hearts of two human cadavers. The clinical repercussions of which remain unknown.
AUG14:Mold Sick.FALL16:Clinical Bart/Borellia/Yeast
NOV16:Lung Pain. JAN17:Morg Scalp (resolved)
FEB17: Pupils, throat glow UV light.
Rx: Abx Break, Probiotic Rebuild, FLZ q72hr
Sup: Ozone, Magnets, Dental implants removed
Proto:Modified Klinghardt
Tx: self

Post Edited (ChickenArise) : 9/17/2017 8:21:54 AM (GMT-6)


PeteZa
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   Posted 9/14/2017 8:08 AM (GMT -6)   
gfields said...
But don't people find larvae on themselves after they walk in the woods? Isn't that what those super tiny, tiny ones are?


I'm definitely well schooled in ticks, but I think you may be referring to nymphs.

dacarte3
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   Posted 9/14/2017 9:40 AM (GMT -6)   
ChickenArise said...
dacarte3 said...

There's really no point in pondering where it "starts". It started when they came into existence millions of years ago.


or when genetically modified organisms were commercialized for crop pest control thirty years ago which is about when these emerging organisms, which were with us millions of years ago, for some reason transformed into hostile super bugs that cause all of us much more pain in what seems to be a concerted effort on the part of these organisms.

This has culminated with strange happenings such as Funelliformis Mossae a well known fungus well documented as only affecting plants, until April of 2017 when Dr. Fry and others disclosed for the first time ever in a Pubmed article that this fungus was found in the cadavers of the hearts of two humans. The clinical repercussions of which remain unknown.


Yes. Humans have sped up and "altered" how these microbes evolved.

The environmental pressures has cause certain aspect of natural selection and evolution to occur. The environmental pressures being man-caused (antibiotics, antibacterial everything, pesticides, etc). Evolution happens much much quicker with bacteria (since their life span is minscule) versus humans.

The bacteria is evolving and becoming what feels like "super" bugs relatively speaking. Relative to our current human immune system, that will need to evolve eventually as well to deal with it. However we evolve so much slower.

That's where herbs come in. Its a life form much more evolved than both humans or microbes and we have the intelligence to take compounds from them, that they have already been using since the beginning of life to fight off microbes.

Our next evolutionary step will be about being smarter, more than anything physical.

Pirouette
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   Posted 9/16/2017 12:57 AM (GMT -6)   
Good discussion.

Let's not forget that Lyme was developed as a biowarfare weapon... which I think accounts for a lot of the surge of infestation in the 70s and perhaps the issues with testing, diagnosis and treatment that have contributed to the Lyme epidemic can also be attributed to the "stealth" design of the modern spirochete.

And perhaps, this is also why the CDC, NIH and IDSA are being supported in their anti-Lyme-everything campaigns.

Just my thoughts.

-p
Lyme Moderator
Chronic late-stage lyme—likely infected in '00; Clinically dx Mar'14 w/ Babs, Fry Labs+ Bart-like, CDC+ Bb. First treated 4-5 viruses & GI/immune. Herbal antimicrobials in May; IV port-started Rocephin in Nov; added vancomycin Mar'16;
DETOX: Pinella/Burbur/Parsley/Milk thistle/Burdock/Red root; Samento/Banderol/Enula; JK/Turmeric; BFM-1; antifung; many many supps; cholestyramine!

Psilociraptor
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   Posted 9/16/2017 5:42 AM (GMT -6)   
I don't know how I feel about the whole plum island thing. I've done a little bit of gene engineering in bacteria myself and while i don't claim to be an expert in it or have government level resources, it is honestly still a very primitive science from my experience. There's not much "engineering" stealth pathogens so much as there is rearranging genes that already exist or making simple mutations and observing the outcome. All of these things are certainly possible in the biowarfare domain but one thing sticks out to me... Borrelia carries 22 plasmids. Most bacteria don't carry more than one as their genome becomes unstable. In my mind I can't conceive of anything short of highly selective pressure resulting in this. It's very unlikely that a human could have designed this without some sort of precedent. Even then, it would be another 50 years before we knew enough about it to really play god with it. I'm not saying the military hasn't tinkered with the borrelia genome. I'm sure it has. Maybe a stroke of luck on their end brought a few more virulent strains. But i really struggle to imagine they created something that has no natural precedent. The stealth design is a highly sophisticated behavior that has resulted from hundreds of millions of years of evolution and is not unique to Lyme. In fact, intracellular infections were the first types of infections to ever exist since we come from a world where all organisms were at one point unicellular. The amazing scope and redundancy of our immune defenses chronicles a history of constant struggle and adaptation to these little ******s. Lyme is but a small window into a much bigger issues.

As for where it starts, i don't think this is a thing worth debating. As dacarte said, this started billions of years ago. Spirochetes, if i remember correctly, are one of four of the most ancient microorganisms and Lyme disease is just one segment of their evolutionary continuum. This disease arose like all diseases. Out of an ancient stew of microorganisms that parasitized each other for nutrients. As bacteria turned into protozoa and protozoa turned into metazoa these parasites retained their original strategies and developed them further, taking advantage of the changing evolutionary landscape and finding new pathways to get to their next meal. There is no real focal point of emergence here. No defined start or end to the spirochetes legacy in regards to current times. The spirochetes were here before us, and so EVERYTHING has evolved in their presence. Mice, ticks, and deer were probably swapping spirochetes long before anything we recognize as modern Lyme disease came into existence. As for not hanging out in the world, transmission through urine into the environment and uptake by grazing is one of the most ancient modes of spirochete transmission. I would expect it actually does do a bit of hanging around. But nonetheless it clearly prefers it's direct transmission

bobke
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   Posted 9/16/2017 8:20 AM (GMT -6)   
So if you look at Hypochondria, which is considered a mental disorder, then estimates vary but it is said that upwords of 4% of the population have it.

www.psychiatrictimes.com/articles/hypochondriasis-fresh-outlook-treatment

"Estimates of the prevalence of HC range from 4% to 20% of the general population."

I feel sorry for anyone with HC who also gets lyme because they have a difficult time making good decisions and are always changing course based on the latest symptom.

Conspiracy Theorism is a mental condition as well.

/www.scientificamerican.com/article/insights-into-the-personalities-conspiracy-theorists/

"Psychologists find that distrust of authority and low agreeableness are among factors underlying the willingness to believe"

It is clear that our society is also becoming more Narcissistic;

www.narcissismepidemic.com/aboutbook.html

"about The Narcissism Epidemic: An FAQ on narcissism"

A couple hallmark traits of Narcissists are excessive attention seeking and Drama addiction.

Let's take into account that Bartonella is a factor in peoples Lyme condition;

www.townsendletter.com/July2009/ed_lyme0709.html

“The knowledge base about both Bartonella testing and treatment borders on the disastrous. Bartonella is one of the most common infections in the world. Calling it a "coinfection" is nonsense; if anything, Lyme is the "coinfection." It is found in vast numbers of common vectors, including dust mites, fleas, flea feces, pet saliva, and ticks. Amazingly, it can turn off or lower antibodies to Lyme disease, Babesia, Ehrlichia, Anaplasma, and even itself. Bartonella floats in blood and also enters all blood vessel walls without causing a fatal fever, and indeed actually lowers fevers. It is the ultimate stealth infection. It turns off antibodies, fevers, and immune function defense chemicals as it damages organs in 20 to 60 ways.”

And that Bartonella causes it's own set of mental issues;

/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2100128/

"Do Bartonella Infections Cause Agitation, Panic Disorder, and Treatment-Resistant Depression?"

If you have a Bartonella infection it subdues your inner voice which moderates your behavior and any mental conditions a person has become amplified.

Having read extensively on the subject of "lyme" I would say that about 90% plus of the research is full of errors because it is based on false narratives and people love to spread anything that passes for research around because it gives them a voice.

So what you end up with is the current state of affairs in the "lyme" arena which is that there is a meaningless cacophony of nonsense that isn't serving anyone well.

The fundamentals of lyme disease and how to cure it are not that complex but are being completely obscured by the nature of the approach.

Post Edited By Moderator (Girlie) : 9/16/2017 11:08:28 AM (GMT-6)


Girlie
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   Posted 9/16/2017 11:09 AM (GMT -6)   
bobke - I edited your post to remove the link to the website you posted.

We do not allow links, or mention of that website.


You were warned before. Please do not post it again or you will be banned as well.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Pirouette
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   Posted 9/16/2017 12:25 PM (GMT -6)   
Psilociraptor -

I agree that the B spirochete is a million years old - my reference was an attempt to explain the recent morph into such a dangerous, stealthy pathogen, which is why I called it "modern Lyme".

You're more of an expert than I am in this subject so I'm just piecing together my research on Lyme and other historical references. And I'm anxious to continue learning so please share what you got.

SOMETHING happened to cause that sudden shift in modern Lyme in the 70s since an organic evolution functions on an entirely different timeline. B was relatively benign for most of those millions years. ;)

Now, an evolution was already in progress, as you aptly described. Add in the transplant of all those deer into the northeast back in the 1800s(?) maybe that happened earlier - I forget. And mix in the rapid development of the northeast in the subsequent century. And compound that with the changing climate of the planet... and whatever else has initiated a shift into rodents as the main carriers and the toxification of our water, air, food, and overall reduction in general public health. There were many factors and I'm sure I'm forgetting several.

But something had to catalyze a very quick change to make it so different and virulent and communicable in such a short time period (in evolutionary terms). Elena Cook has done some excellent research into the background of The Epidemic Intelligence Service (EIS), which was an elite, quasi-military unit of Infectious Disease experts set up in the 1950's to develop an offensive biowarfare capability--and their Operation Paperclip, post-WWII German decent.

She also shared evidence that Lyme was included in the bioweapon development lists of three (or four - I forget) labs from lists that were publicized a decade or so ago (which are no, not surprisingly, links that no longer work... but I did see them a couple years ago). Subsequently the lists were revised by the labs to remove Lyme.

Here is her website - give it a good read and let us know what you think. www.elenacook.org/bwsept06.html

The origins of these EIS researchers Cook cites align with other research out there regarding the origins of our NASA and advanced technology programs and other state-sponsored, government and corporate research and development organizations post-WWII. The public version of WWII is likely not the actual version of events and it's fairly well known now that most of the **** and German leadership were assisted out of the country under cover. I think if the American people knew how much these people are responsible for the sudden "superiority" of the US, they would be horrified.

It also seems likely that there is much, much more advanced science and physics than the public is aware of... you know... under the guise of national safety/security. That is the modern M.O. for covert ops and secret programs. Ever wonder where the missing $trillions have gone?

But back on subject -
I wasn't at Plum Island so I am not 100% sure of its connection. But put the Lyme timeline, the history of the controversy/players and everything else into context, and the lab's proximity to the primary location of its introduction into society, the lab probably has a relationship to the modern Lyme epidemic. And what I didn't communicate very clearly in my other post is that I feel the military origins of modern Lyme pretty much ensure that the overt sabotage of Lyme diagnosis and treatment by the CDC, NIH and IDSA is probably being controlled and ensured.

I'm sure there's a lot more than we know but my money is on some funny bio-science. And I suck because I can't explain it nearly as well as you can!

-p
Lyme Moderator
Chronic late-stage lyme—likely infected in '00; Clinically dx Mar'14 w/ Babs, Fry Labs+ Bart-like, CDC+ Bb. First treated 4-5 viruses & GI/immune. Herbal antimicrobials in May; IV port-started Rocephin in Nov; added vancomycin Mar'16;
DETOX: Pinella/Burbur/Parsley/Milk thistle/Burdock/Red root; Samento/Banderol/Enula; JK/Turmeric; BFM-1; antifung; many many supps; cholestyramine!
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