Microscopy for dummies

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gfields
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   Posted 9/13/2017 6:12 PM (GMT -6)   
Calling all microscopy experts...

I am looking for a darkfield microscope that I can hunt for spirochetes with. I'd like to be able to display the output of the microscope on a Win 7 computer. I'd like to keep it around 600 or less. What kind of scope could I buy to fit this bill?

If there's one on ebay that would do this, could you send me a link, and I'll pick it up?

I just don't really know enough about scopes to be able to make this call, but I would like to give it a shot. Thanks for your help!!!

gfields
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   Posted 9/13/2017 6:18 PM (GMT -6)   
Would one like this work well for spirochetes?
http://www.microscopenet.com/omax-40x2000x-darkfield-trinocular-compound-microscope-with-digital-camera-p-10243.html?gclid=CjwKEAiAvs7CBRC24rao6bGCoiASJABaCt5DpGWSgZWPThqIzpZd7NIpz8gYP9-mpvnmXC-6TS9pqRoCVrnw_wcB

Mustard Seed
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   Posted 9/13/2017 7:39 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey gfields,

When doing darkfield (if that's what you're looking at doing), you always want the N.A of the objective lens to be less than that of the condenser.

This means that usually for 1000x darkfield, you need an objective lens with an adjustable iris (to lower the N.A) or a funnel stop that you manually insert into the objective (again to lower N.A). It's unclear whether the 100x objective lens with this kit includes either of those two, but I suspect not.

I'm also not sure if that bulb is strong enough for 1000x darkfield, but someone in the microscopy thread might know.

To be honest, it seems a little expensive for what you get, given that a lot of times these Omax or Amscope cameras really don't work well.

Check out this thread I made a while ago on basic microscope stuff:

www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3753190

Mustard Seed
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Date Joined May 2016
Total Posts : 1087
   Posted 9/13/2017 7:48 PM (GMT -6)   
Just to add onto my last post, look how this microscope specifically comes with a second 100x objective that has an adjustable iris:

www.amscope.com/compound-microscopes/darkfield-trinocular-biological-compound-microscope-40x-2000x-1.html

If you're looking to do darkfield at 100x, that's something you'll probably want to look for. Also, it specificially lists it as a "plan achromatic" lens, which doesn't blur the edges of the image like a regular achromatic lens (this isn't something that's super important, usually costing more $, but it's a good bonus).

gfields
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   Posted 9/13/2017 8:00 PM (GMT -6)   
Oh yes, that's a wonderful post. I was just reading that a little while ago. My brain petered out half way through though. But thanks for putting that together. It's extremely helpful.

I'll try reading that post a bit more in depth tomorrow.

Is there one on ebay or something that you'd recommend as a better one? I'm not super knowledgeable about which ones are good and which ones are bad.

I'd like to get a spinal tap and analyze CSF under the microscope. I have pretty severe neurolyme. I'd be interested to see if I could spot a spirochete in the CSF fluid if the doctor would let me take a sample home. Then, if I could hook it up to a computer, I could take screen captures, or videos of what I found, and show them to my LLMD. That would be pretty cool.

...

Oh, sorry, your other post came in while I was writing this one. OK, I'll check this one out. It's still in my price range. I wonder if you can hook it up to a laptop. I'll dig in further. Thanks so much!!!

Post Edited (gfields) : 9/13/2017 8:03:16 PM (GMT-6)


Mustard Seed
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   Posted 9/13/2017 8:15 PM (GMT -6)   
My best advice would be to not tell any doctor that you're looking for spirochetes under the microscope; they tend to immediately devalue anything you say from that point forward.

You're just as likely to find spirochetes in your blood as your CSF I'd reckon. I'll look on eBay a bit later.

The way I got mine was to join a microscope forum like microbehunter, and see if anyone's selling. That way you're buying from someone who knows microscopes and probably kept good care of it.

Or just look for Amscope or Omax, I've seen some nice looking videos from some of those. Maybe just buy your own camera, as I've never heard a positive review of an am scope USB camera. I would buy a scope first and worry about the camera later once you've honed your technique.

Post Edited (Mustard Seed) : 9/13/2017 8:18:08 PM (GMT-6)


Healrom
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Date Joined Nov 2016
Total Posts : 133
   Posted 9/13/2017 8:32 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi, I would advise you an AMscope.
A halogen version, not led. With 10 and 20x eye piece (objective)

And either you buy a model that is sold with an OIL darkfield condenser. Or you buy a model without and you buy a darkfield oil condenser separately.

It's very important to take an OIL condenser, and not DRY.

You will only be able to use the 40x objective with darkfield, but it's really enough to search and see spirochetes.

So it will be a 2000X compound microscope with halogen illumination.

Then if later you want to do darkfield with 100x objective, you will have to buy an iris 100x objective, and maybe customize the lighting part.

You can take a binocular (and you will have to put a camera at one of the eyepieces) or a trinocular, dans then you can put a camera at the third tube. If you want to use a photo camera with an adapter (but they are expensive), I would advise you a trinocular.

Other than that, you can use a webcam taped to an eyepiece to film videos. I'm using a Logitech one.

gfields
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Date Joined Oct 2015
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   Posted 9/15/2017 3:31 PM (GMT -6)   
So it sounds like you guys are both recommending that I go with this one:
http://www.amscope.com/compound-microscopes/darkfield-trinocular-biological-compound-microscope-40x-2000x-1.html

Psilociraptor
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   Posted 9/15/2017 4:21 PM (GMT -6)   
I have an Omax with a camera. The camera is actually pretty good with healthy expectations. When imaging something like a spirochete you are literally observing the thinnest visible organism on earth. It can be hard enough to see directly, much less with a camera. The camera will never look as good as directly looking through the microscope either. As for the scope itself I personally love it. I hear a lot of poo pooing about omax but it honestly works great. The one thing I have not tried is the 1000x setup however so I can't comment on that. Omax sells a set up specifically for that but I can't say how good it is.

gfields
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Date Joined Oct 2015
Total Posts : 763
   Posted 9/15/2017 5:03 PM (GMT -6)   
Is this the omax you own?
http://www.microscopenet.com/omax-40x2000x-darkfield-trinocular-compound-microscope-with-digital-camera-p-10243.html?gclid=CjwKEAiAvs7CBRC24rao6bGCoiASJABaCt5DpGWSgZWPThqIzpZd7NIpz8gYP9-mpvnmXC-6TS9pqRoCVrnw_wcB

I was wondering about something. With a microscope, in theory, you could experiment with your own personal spirochetes, to see if your chosen method of treatment is effective in killing spirochetes, couldn't you?

Could you dilute abx in water, to what you think might be a level that would be exposed on a cellular level, and have one drop of blood on a glass film as a constant, and another drop of blood on a glass film where you introduce a drop of your diluted treatment, and see if the spirochetes die on the diluted treatment glass film, and they live on the constant glass film.

I wonder if you could do the same thing with the Spooky II. Have a constant glass film and a glass film with spirochetes treated on a "spirochete kill" setting, and see if they, in fact, die on that setting.

Has anyone experimented with this type of thing?

Mustard Seed
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Date Joined May 2016
Total Posts : 1087
   Posted 9/15/2017 6:37 PM (GMT -6)   
gfields said...
So it sounds like you guys are both recommending that I go with this one:
http://www.amscope.com/compound-microscopes/darkfield-trinocular-biological-compound-microscope-40x-2000x-1.html


This microscope would certainly have everything you need. You could look for Borrelia in darkfield and co-infections with stains in brightfield. The only thing I'm not sure about is if a 20 watt bulb is bright enough for 100x darkfield. You'd assume that if they're selling it with the 100x iris objective it would be, but 20 watt seems a little dim IMO, but I've never experimented with one.

gfields
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Date Joined Oct 2015
Total Posts : 763
   Posted 9/15/2017 8:46 PM (GMT -6)   
Maybe I could ask them if I could upgrade to a brighter bulb. Would a 40 watt bulb be more appropriate perhaps?

Which microscope are you using currently?

Post Edited (gfields) : 9/15/2017 8:53:31 PM (GMT-6)


gfields
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Date Joined Oct 2015
Total Posts : 763
   Posted 9/15/2017 8:59 PM (GMT -6)   
microbehunter is a pretty cool site. I found a thread about replacing bulbs:
http://www.microbehunter.com/microscopy-forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5122

I'm no electrician, but I bet I could find a youtube video online about this and try to follow the steps if I come to the conclusion that the bulb brightness isn't going to cut it.

Healrom
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2016
Total Posts : 133
   Posted 9/16/2017 9:22 PM (GMT -6)   
The amscope seems good. I think that there wasn't complete kits with 100x iris objectives at this price before.

For the light bulb power I'm not sure that you can change it like that. Because the electronic circuit may encounter problems after that.

I think that the best is to ask to the seller if the intensity of the light souce will be enough in 100x darkfield if you want to be really sure.

I have an amscope, but a second hand 100x ojective, and a custom lighting system, so I can't tell you.

Healrom
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2016
Total Posts : 133
   Posted 9/16/2017 9:25 PM (GMT -6)   
Also the 100x objective of amscope is not very good. But the one I have is a basic one. This one is a plan objective, so it should be better.

Mustard Seed
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Date Joined May 2016
Total Posts : 1087
   Posted 9/17/2017 7:46 AM (GMT -6)   
gfields said...
Maybe I could ask them if I could upgrade to a brighter bulb. Would a 40 watt bulb be more appropriate perhaps?

Which microscope are you using currently?


I use an American Optical 10. It's an older microscope but it's in great condition. The reburbisher I bought it from let me know that my 18 watt illuminator is not enough for 1000x dark field. The American Optical darkfield scopes were sold with 100 watt illuminators back in the day.

gfields
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Date Joined Oct 2015
Total Posts : 763
   Posted 9/17/2017 8:29 AM (GMT -6)   
Something like this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMERICAN-OPTICAL-FULLY-EQUIPPED-MICROSTAR-2070-VERTICAL-FLUORESCENCE-MICROSCOPE-/292192313155?hash=item440804df43:g:W8EAAOSw4dxZc4aj

Mustard Seed
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Date Joined May 2016
Total Posts : 1087
   Posted 9/17/2017 9:31 AM (GMT -6)   
It's hard to know the quality of stuff you buy on eBay unless you personally know the seller. A bit of a risk when you're spending big money like that.

If I had to buy again without knowing any sellers, I'd probably buy a new Amscope with a 100x objective with adjustable iris, and a darkfield oil objective. Start with brightfield + quick dip veterinary stains for co-infections, and 1000x darkfield for spirochetes. You can do fancier stuff later.

Healrom
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2016
Total Posts : 133
   Posted 9/17/2017 11:11 AM (GMT -6)   
Yes I agree with that.

You can even begin the darkfield with 40 X objective, I did it for years and was happy with it. The setup is more simple than with 100x.
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