Rapid Collagen degeneration/re-generation

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dacarte3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 1343
   Posted 9/13/2017 7:57 PM (GMT -6)   
Hello all,

I'm experiencing something that I wonder others have as well.

I experience collagen loss and collagen re-generation rapidly. I can see it occurring virtually in real time. Virtually in real time meaning within 30 minutes to an hour.

The palms of my hands will visibly lose collagen, get really loose like an 80 year old person and get really wrinkly. I know this symptom is pretty common. But it then stops and regenerates in like an hour.

Then my wrist does the same thing. It will loose a substantial amount of collagen where I can see all kinds of ligaments and indention but then watch it regenerate over the course of 30 minutes to an hour back to "normal".

The rapid regeneration is what makes the symptom really freaky. If it happened much slower over the entire day or multiple days it would be one thing.

But it's like I'm a X-Men mutant.

Is this just rapid/short lived inflammation (herx)?

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 25438
   Posted 9/13/2017 8:29 PM (GMT -6)   
dacarte - throughout the day - my fingers change - they go from being plump to wrinkled , back to plump.

I don't think the collagen is regenerating when they're plump.
I doubt it happens that fast.

I'm thinking it's nerve and/or blood flow issues.

I do know that my bad side (left) - the finger pads are plump more during the day than they used to be.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

dacarte3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 1343
   Posted 9/13/2017 8:42 PM (GMT -6)   
Girlie said...
dacarte - throughout the day - my fingers change - they go from being plump to wrinkled , back to plump.

I don't think the collagen is regenerating when they're plump.
I doubt it happens that fast.

I'm thinking it's nerve and/or blood flow issues.

I do know that my bad side (left) - the finger pads are plump more during the day than they used to be.


Interesting. But how can blood cause that much of a difference?

I guess it's possible.

WalkingbyFaith
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 185
   Posted 9/13/2017 8:53 PM (GMT -6)   
Wow! That's weird. I haven't had anything like that, but I have noticed changes in my legs. At times my feet and legs look fat or bloated. One morning last week they looked skinny and wasted. Then a few days later I noticed they looked puffy again. I think it's probably from swelling and blood flow problems. I get some numbness, too, that comes and goes.

dacarte3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 1343
   Posted 9/13/2017 9:05 PM (GMT -6)   
That's two mentions of blood flow issues.
Lyme (Igenex) - Positive IFA and WB bands 23, 31, 41
Ehrlichia (Igenex)
Mycoplasma (Labcorp) - Score: 595

ABX Treatment: 03/2016-04/2016; 7/2017-9/2017
Buhner Protocol for Lyme and Mycoplasma: May 2016 - Dec. 2016; 8/2017 - Present

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 25438
   Posted 9/13/2017 9:17 PM (GMT -6)   
dacarte3 said...
Girlie said...
dacarte - throughout the day - my fingers change - they go from being plump to wrinkled , back to plump.

I don't think the collagen is regenerating when they're plump.
I doubt it happens that fast.

I'm thinking it's nerve and/or blood flow issues.

I do know that my bad side (left) - the finger pads are plump more during the day than they used to be.


Interesting. But how can blood cause that much of a difference?

I guess it's possible.


Bartonella affects our heart and blood vessels. If the blood isn't pumping efficiently - maybe it could affect the fingers like that... IDK - but they are at the end of the 'line'.

I just don't think collagen can regenerate that quickly - as in hours.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

dacarte3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 1343
   Posted 9/13/2017 9:21 PM (GMT -6)   
Girlie said...
dacarte3 said...
Girlie said...
dacarte - throughout the day - my fingers change - they go from being plump to wrinkled , back to plump.

I don't think the collagen is regenerating when they're plump.
I doubt it happens that fast.

I'm thinking it's nerve and/or blood flow issues.

I do know that my bad side (left) - the finger pads are plump more during the day than they used to be.


Interesting. But how can blood cause that much of a difference?

I guess it's possible.


Bartonella affects our heart and blood vessels. If the blood isn't pumping efficiently - maybe it could affect the fingers like that... IDK - but they are at the end of the 'line'.

I just don't think collagen can regenerate that quickly - as in hours.


You are probably correct that it can't.

I guess I should re-title this post as rapid "wasting" regeneration. Like walkingbyfaith said, it's like it "waste" away and then later it plumps back up.

Weird.

dacarte3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 1343
   Posted 9/13/2017 9:27 PM (GMT -6)   
Google "snuff box hand". Earlier when it wasted, I had a deep prominent snuff box when I would hold things like a cup.

I watched it disappear over the course of an hour. Now it is not visible (at all). And when I poke in it there's some squishiness and plumbness. Like it's more than just blood.

Perhaps collagen was always there but it's the filling up with blood to that area that enhances the suppleness.
Lyme (Igenex) - Positive IFA and WB bands 23, 31, 41
Ehrlichia (Igenex)
Mycoplasma (Labcorp) - Score: 595

ABX Treatment: 03/2016-04/2016; 7/2017-9/2017
Buhner Protocol for Lyme and Mycoplasma: May 2016 - Dec. 2016; 8/2017 - Present

bluelyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 4378
   Posted 9/14/2017 12:40 AM (GMT -6)   
in my case the collagen was lost then visable changes became that much more freakshow...the wrinkling of fingerskin noticed it was a blood pressure /hydration and herxy thing, although , when the wasting first started i felt like i was urinating protein or something with bart bladder but i learned a bit about the renin system minerals and hormones specifically aldosterone which like cortisol probably gets depleted . one can buy a inhaled version from over seas (kinda pricey ) and i dont know which drug the prescribe for pots but i chew on raw licorice sticks, and they're plump all day . the other line of thought gh has me on lately in the nitric oxide and how it may be regulated by gut flora. and our vessels inflate and deflate based on that . i have not tried the supplements that meatheads use yet.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 25438
   Posted 9/14/2017 12:59 AM (GMT -6)   
Blue - my LLND offered me a prescription for Propranolol - he thought it might help with these shivers I get all the time. The shivers are induced by music, and other things that "move" me (stir up emotions).

I never did get the meds, but I did read recently they are prescribed for POTS - which I also have.

I'm debating if I should give it a try.

Edit to add: Propranolol is a Beta blocker
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Hoagie
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2017
Total Posts : 117
   Posted 9/14/2017 5:56 AM (GMT -6)   
Could it be water retention and depletion?
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