Awake and freaking out about person to person transmission

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hopelessinmo
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 44
   Posted 10/4/2017 11:25 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm sure this has been covered a million times but here's one more...
After speaking to my LLMD who seems positive person to person transmission of lyme and coinfections isn't possible (because there's not enough evidence) I'm wondering how true this could be.
I've questioned this since day one and while I still don't know everything I have, I am treating myself as if I have leprosy (even though they have a better way of diagnosing -i won't go there).
I'm washing my hands so much they're raw. I have two babies that I've kept kisses short and on the cheeks. Even during cry fests (that happen way too often these days) I immediately have to clean my clothes and wash my face because, well, what's in there???
My kid wants a bite of my food, I won't share, hubby is kissy, I feel like I'm pushing away... I could really go on and on about it, but basically the affection has dwindled down/changed from me because I feel like I'm emitting poison, and it's hurting and confusing especially for the littles.
Yes, I tell the one (that understands, the other is just 7 months old) that I'm sick, but it doesn't hurt any less. I'm dealing with guilt and wondering how likely person to person transmission is. Is there any information over this? At what point do you say "I'm ok"?
And just in short, I had a tick bite the 9th of August, started doxy within the first few weeks, and am currently on week 6 now 400 mg/ day. Not being treated for anything else, however am quite certain I have coinfections.
Thanks

ArtAngel
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2016
Total Posts : 189
   Posted 10/5/2017 12:17 AM (GMT -6)   
My understanding is that if you are taking antibiotics which you are, there is very little risk.
There are quite a few discussions on transmission in the past on this forum you can look it up by putting transmission-lyme in the search engine.
I am so sorry for what you are going through. I remember being very anxious when my first grandchild was born, not being sure I should even touch her, and not trusted even what I knew to be true from all I had heard, and read already.
You are a good mum and you obviously are thinking of everyone else but you.
Hugs to you....having lyme is a lesson in taking care of you..... the real you, the you that needs to know you are valuable and have something good to bring to you family, the you that loves life and the people you love. Put fear in its place. You are sick and tired and mums get so little time to themselves. Just the same if you have the support anywhere in your live take some time out to rest its absolutely necessary for getting your health back sooner.

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 26474
   Posted 10/5/2017 12:31 AM (GMT -6)   
hopelessinmo -

I believe that sexual transmission is likely to transmit these infections. It is found in vaginal secretions and seminal fluid.

Studies also indicate that it can be passed on in utero.


I don't think you need to worry about a kiss on the cheek....
or a few tears on your clothes.

Kissing on the lips? I don't know....I believe it's found in the saliva....

These are just my thoughts...

The reality is you are all living under one roof...and interacting daily. You can't worry yourself sick about this.
Don't give sloppy kisses...but hugging, cheek kisses - in my opinion - are fine.

Also, as ArtAngel said - you are taking antibiotics...which should lower the risk.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

mpost
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 1075
   Posted 10/5/2017 2:39 AM (GMT -6)   
i think you are over reacting. next thing you will think it is transmitted by coughing next to a person. that's ridiculous.

the bug has been transmitted through ticks exclusively for millions of years (they found a tick stuck in amber 12.5 million years old, with borrelia in its gut).

the tick and the borrelia are so interconnected that any other kind of transmission is just accidental.

The risks are higher if the target is immune suppressed. Example of situations of immune suppression

- unborn babies - they do not have a functional immune system, so are very vulnerable to be infected if the mother is infected
- people taking steroids - sexual contact may allow transmission of borrelia to these people accidentally. It is found in secretions but in low amounts, unlike syphilis which is found in high amounts because this is the main route of transmission for that bacteria.
- people with some sort of SERIOUS genetic immune dysfunction
- people with untreated HIV

anything else i would say the risks are very low. the tick saliva has some immune suppressing properties that are instrumental for dissemination of the lyme bacteria. so if a fly with borrelia bites you, you have a very low chance to get sick but only if you are immune suppressed (see examples above)

goshawk
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 1084
   Posted 10/5/2017 3:02 AM (GMT -6)   
I don't share any utensils ,cups etc with others. For me I just think its my responsibility to reduce the risk of passing it on.
I also have my husband taking Astragulus on a daily basis at a preventive and immune builder.

It is normal to be fearful, but try not let it take over. Stress will only hurt you and we cant change what these infections are or what they are capable off.

However, we can take control of the situation just like with any other illness. Take precautions, educate ourselves,be proactive in treating ,detoxing and understanding that we sometimes have to make changes or adjustments in our lives.
Stay strong and look forward to healing.

Take care, Jo
Forum moderator

Pirouette
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5813
   Posted 10/5/2017 3:59 AM (GMT -6)   
hopelessinmo -

I'm so sorry you are agonizing like this. I know how it feels - there are reasons to be nervous and concerned but as Jo mentioned, it is VERY important not to allow stress to dominate.

I think think the statements by your LLMD are dangerously incorrect.

While there are limitations to transmission I believe that most people carry the Bb microbe and that multiple means of transmission are a big reason why we have an epidemic.

But there is something else to keep in mind - and that is neuro-psych sx that might include paranoia, anxiety, and other neuroses which can be driving your actions and create "germophobia" type worrying. I can identify with it in many ways - there are times when I find the thought of kissing someone revolting - not only what I might contract from their saliva but I often feel like a petrie dish myself. It's an irrational thought but it shows up and it helps me to think of it as a herx like the other neuro-psych sx.

There are steps to detoxing and improving gut health (the gut-brain connection helps us understand how imbalance in the GI can cause or exacerbate neuro-psych sx) that can help with these sx. And some people benefit from anxiety meds. I agree with other suggestions to continue to be cautious and maintain your treatment as you have been. And maybe most important - as your LLMD for help managing the stress and anxiety and engage your husband in the process - this is so critical. MANY, many many people are living very healthy and asymptomatic lives with the Bb microbe in their bodies. The here-and-now is far more important than what might happen in the future.

mpost -

A few things -
It's also important for those responding to the OP not to overreact...

And I'll challenge that while your statements about immune vulnerability are true, they more accurately describe whether or not a person might develop Lyme disease from the presence/transmission of the microbe. The immune system is not going to prevent the microbe from entering the body. The purpose of the immune-suppressing agent in the tick saliva is to help the microbe avoid detection by the immune system so that it can proliferate through the body. But it's still getting in.

And due to the high numbers of people with GI dysfunction, the gaping hole in the medical industry to effectively resolve those problems or to acknowledge the associated vulnerability of immune function since 70% of our immune system IS our GI, it's not at all unreasonable to wonder if this also plays a role in the wide dissemination of the Bb in the past few decades.

Historically, I think the primary transmission was probably ticks but the modern microbe acts differently and I also doubt there was much investigation into other vectors. I'm not sure about "very low" possibilities of other transmission - there's too much evidence.

-p

magoo2
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2015
Total Posts : 880
   Posted 10/5/2017 6:45 AM (GMT -6)   
People are exposed to this bug all the time and they don't get sick.
I would focus more on keeping the family healthy and strong. If they suddenly are weak then you may be more careful

mpost
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 1075
   Posted 10/5/2017 9:34 AM (GMT -6)   
Pirouette said...

Historically, I think the primary transmission was probably ticks but the modern microbe acts differently and I also doubt there was much investigation into other vectors. I'm not sure about "very low" possibilities of other transmission - there's too much evidence.
-p


For you specifically Pirouette i searched and found exactly the video time when Dr. H (from NY) discusses this issue (lyme transmission). This guy has treated close to 40000 lyme patients and is considered within top 3 best LLMDs on the planet. It's ignorant not to trust him. Anyway, enjoy, this is where he starts talking about lyme transmission:

/youtu.be/6kn-ieUEO7Y?t=382

He also makes a logical argument. If it were sexually transmitted, you would see a lot of cases during winter time (when people happen to also have sex, actually more than during summer time). Yet that is not true, the spike is not during winter...

Anyway, so if you guys want to believe lyme can be transmitted by touching a person or by coughing, go ahead... I just will not jump on that train, i trust people that have a saying about treating this disease. This guy does.

PeteZa
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 8949
   Posted 10/5/2017 9:54 AM (GMT -6)   
hopelessinmo I understand your fear completely. Once I was diagnosed hubby and I did not kiss. I was super careful about our food prep. In the past I would taste the soup with a spoon and then stir the soup again. I mean, it was only he and I, so what the harm? Diagnosed and I discontinued doing that.

The grands got kisses on their heads or cheeks too.

Hubby got lyme. Was it from me? We have no clue. It could have been from our yard. I am sure there are more ticks in our yard than there were kisses on him before I was diagnosed. But I know that between my being bitten and diagnosis, precautions were not being taken.

After diagnosis I was a germaphob!! I did not want to get anyone sick. But the anxiety of that worry caused me so much illness. I had to figure out how to stop doing this worrying. It was making me sicker. I gave up the worry and gave it to God.

I didn't slack off in my precautions, but I had to stop the worry. Worry is a horrible disease and a symptom all rolled into one.

I started with funny movies. Making salt dough things with the grands and doing fun stuff. I so disliked myself being a worry wort.

I never did completely stop worrying, but I certainly worried a lot less. Therefore, I felt a lot better. I put that worry on the elevator and sent it to the basement. Whatever visual you have to use, try that.

Hugs, you are a good momma and wife that wants to protect her family. <3

Pirouette
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5813
   Posted 10/5/2017 1:16 PM (GMT -6)   
mpost said...
For you specifically Pirouette i searched and found exactly the video time when Dr. H (from NY) discusses this issue (lyme transmission). This guy has treated close to 40000 lyme patients and is considered within top 3 best LLMDs on the planet. It's ignorant not to trust him. Anyway, enjoy, this is where he starts talking about lyme transmission:

/youtu.be/6kn-ieUEO7Y?t=382

He also makes a logical argument. If it were sexually transmitted, you would see a lot of cases during winter time (when people happen to also have sex, actually more than during summer time). Yet that is not true, the spike is not during winter...

Anyway, so if you guys want to believe lyme can be transmitted by touching a person or by coughing, go ahead... I just will not jump on that train, i trust people that have a saying about treating this disease. This guy does.
mpost -

Horwitz's position on transmission is not news - we've discussed it here multiple times. He's entitled to his opinions and you're free to follow him. He's a good LLMD but I assure you MANY LLMDs and Lyme patients disagree with him.

There is FAR too much irregularity/inconsistencies and lack of awareness of the initial Lyme sx and/or proper diagnosis for any logical proclamations of seasonal relationships or patterns with tick bites or LD diagnoses. Especially since most of that data is based on REPORTED cases to CDC, which is meaningless. Most people don't even know they've been bitten. Many people were bitten but the bites weren't properly identified and most people don't develop bullseye rashes. And many diagnoses come months after infection--if not years, and many cases are never identified as Lyme, etc. The list goes on...

The other possibility that people kind of overlook is that the seasonal changes in NY (where Dr H practices) and in the northeast, with very consistent annual freezes, etc., might not relate or equivocate well to the "rest of the country". So much of the early knowledge about Lyme doesn't translate well to the current epidemic, which has reached nearly every part of the country.

Also, it's important to keep in mind that ticks are active year-round (other than freezing periods) but spring is most dangerous as that's when the baby ticks are born and become nymphs, which generally do most of the infecting--if you're to believe the current science, which references decades-old studies... but that's what these generalized statements are based on.

I, personally, am not sure that "persons touching or coughing" has a place in the conversation about transmission, but I've done enough research on Lyme and transmission to know it's premature to rule anything out.

And there is no doubt in my mind that it's sexually transmissible. There is enough evidence of this and of the 100+ people I have interacted with over the almost 4 yrs I've spent on this forum and/or stories I've read has produced enough convincing - albeit anecdotal - evidence of transmission. Won't hold up in court but it's darned convincing. You stick around long enough, you're able to draw some connections.

For instance, when an entire family who doesn't live in an endemic area or has traveled or lives with pets is dx w/ LD, and they seem to have the same strain, it seems ridiculous to blame one solitary tick making the rounds. Entomology also shows that would probably be impossible. It's very likely the kids were infected in utero but impossible to prove.

Cautious caution is a logical response to all of this unknown Lyme business.

-p

Post Edited (Pirouette) : 10/5/2017 4:24:18 PM (GMT-6)


hopelessinmo
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 44
   Posted 10/7/2017 1:08 PM (GMT -6)   
Hello again,
I gave myself a little bit of an "information break" and haven't been online in a few days. I think what I end up finding always stresses me out more.
Thanks everyone for the advice and kind words. I know my anxiety has been completely through the roof and it just makes matters worse. I'm not really sure how to come down either. I'm a spilled glass of milk away from an anxiety attack at all times it seems. Then of course, the thought of potentially giving any of this to anyone, especially the babies, just sends me over the edge.
Any defense that bb cannot be passed from person to person seems naive. My doctor said if it were then "everyone would have it" but we don't actually know how many people have it, do we? I'll tell you almost everyone I know is on some sort of medication for something all of which could easily be lyme. But that conversation almost sounds like a conspiracy theory, so I'll stop there.
I'm trying to be careful and the family has always been pretty healthy. Can't vouch for the new guy as he's only been here for 7 months now smile but so far so good. And I guess I can only hope it's enough.
While I'm not a sloppy kisser, there's definitely saliva on my lips and my babies want to kiss them! I hate turning a cheek when they just want a smooch... then my husband doesn't seem to mine and DOES want sloppy kisses and then he kisses the kids, and I think "gee whiz, maybe he shouldn't be in case I gave him something"
My mind is racing beyond words and nothing calms me. I mentioned that, right ;)

Post Edited (hopelessinmo) : 10/7/2017 1:11:20 PM (GMT-6)


Pirouette
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5813
   Posted 10/7/2017 2:02 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi hopelessinmo -

I was just thinking about this and checked back on this thread and read your new post.

I will hopefully evolve past this psychological stage I'm in right now - but neuro-psych issues are on my "still having trouble with" list. But I still have some components of my germophobia remaining (in that I still feel like a petrie dish)... however, when it comes to kissing kids on the mouth, that really kind of makes me nervous.

There is NO WAY any of us can know for sure what is swimming around in our bodies from a tick bite. Most ticks are carrying far more than just Lyme, if the carrier is a wild rodent. I think that's one of the reasons why I've done so well on Vanco abx because it's broad-spectrum. So that is another reason I feel it's important to be cautious - not paranoid, but cautious, esp with kiddos and the elderly and the immune-compromised.

When I was little, I LOVED giving and receiving "butterfly kisses" (fluttering your eyelashes against the skin, which would tickle a bit. I wouldn't agonize over not smooching on the little munchkins. You can still smother them and nuzzle them and coo at them w/out kissing on the mouth.

In fact, knowing that most adults carry HSV-1 (causes oral herpes) I would not want anyone kissing my kids and I'm pretty sure I caught HSV-1 and EBV from mouth kisses from relatives when I was a kid. I was always underweight and kind of weak maybe from age 8? (I had cankor sores from the age of 12 and that's also probably how I contracted EBV...I'm so pissed about that now that I think of it). Some people carry the viruses and are still asymptomatic but not me.

I don't say this to make you more paranoid about anything, but I would probably shift my behavior and raise my kids without a lot of mouth kissing these days. I'm sure others are less worried about it than I am.

Building a kid's immune health is one thing, passing on viruses they can never eliminate is another thing altogether. "They" keep saying one day they'll find a cure for these viruses and given how long they've not done this, I doubt it's going to happen now. Big Pharma is more profitable managing these viruses than curing them. So, it's not a stretch (for me) to be cautious about transmitting Lyme & Co.

When you get overly anxious about stuff like this:

- try some deep breathing exercises that are a lot like meditation - lots of good videos on Youtube.
- slow down your thinking so that you're taking time with your thoughts, thinking logically rather than reacting emotionally.
- concentrate on a healthy immune system for the kiddos - not trying to avoid all invaders, stay positive.
- practice good hand-washing, even as little kids (natural products - never antimicrobial chemicals).

I remember reading comments by people suggesting that while one spouse was treating, the other spouse would take astragalus or some other "preventative" antimicrobial. I thought that was a good idea. Maybe you can do a search for similar subjects or start your own conversation gleaning tips from other couples managing this situation.

hang in there!

-p
Lyme Moderator
Chronic late-stage lyme—likely infected in '00; Clinically dx Mar'14 w/ Babs, Fry Labs+ Bart-like, CDC+ Bb. First treated 4-5 viruses & GI/immune. Herbal antimicrobials in May; IV port-started Rocephin in Nov; added vancomycin Mar'16;
DETOX: Pinella/Burbur/Parsley/Milk thistle/Burdock/Red root; Samento/Banderol/Enula; JK/Turmeric; BFM-1; antifung; many many supps; cholestyramine!

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 26474
   Posted 10/7/2017 2:17 PM (GMT -6)   
Interesting to read your post Pirouette, because I was just thinking about the mouth kissing.

I actually never kissed my son on the lips when he was younger...don't know why...but it was always (and still is) on his cheeks.

I don't think it 'takes away' anything.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Pirouette
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5813
   Posted 10/7/2017 2:27 PM (GMT -6)   
hopelessinmo said...
...I'll tell you almost everyone I know is on some sort of medication for something all of which could easily be lyme. But that conversation almost sounds like a conspiracy theory, so I'll stop there...
Also - That is NOT AT ALL "conspiracy theory". That's just simple math. When you add up the 340,000 Lyme cases that the CDC admits and factor in that this number represents only a fraction of the people who are:

a) have the specific manifestation of the microbe that is captured in the CDC reported cases, which meets the highly specific CDC surveillance criteria and omits most of the other cases and/or strains of Lyme;

b) are lucky enough to find an MD to get tested in the first place;

c) and are lucky enough to have an MD who knows to ignore the CDC's testing protocol and follows up a negative ELISA (most are negative) with a Western Blot test and most MDs don't do this;

d) and when they do get tested, the tests accurately identify Lyme infection only 50% of the time;

e) seeing an MD who knows which test to use or is able to properly interpret the WB bands since the testing guidelines are geared toward surveillance data, not diagnosis;

f) told that a negative test eliminates any possibility of Lyme so they stop looking at Lyme;

g) lucky enough to get tested but are told like most people that a borderline result is considered negative;

h) the few who are lucky enough to be dx properly will get only a short prophylactic abx tx;

i) and that the "official" numbers representing "successful" tx according to IDSA are grossly overinflated, misinterpreted;

j) and that most anyone developing sx beyond "successful tx" is told it's certainly not Lyme because chronic Lyme doesn't exist;

k) and that most of the entomological information that underpins the "exposure" guidelines that will determine if an MD will even consider testing you (minimal attachment of ticks and geographical areas for possible infected ticks and blah blah blah) are outdated, if not completely wrong and crafted from the same problematic surveillance criteria that superficially suppresses the actually cases of Lyme and certainly not relevant to today's widespread endemic throughout the country;

l) and that the public version of Lyme rejects that other vectors can and do carry the Lyme microbe besides deer ticks, as shown in studies;

m) and that animals are also shown to carry the Lyme and studies have suggested transmission to humans;

n) or that there are the other person-to-person modes of contact we discussed here (PRIMARILY IN UTERO...);

o) within the context of an entire system, that is sanctioned by our government, has been created to artificially suppress actual reported cases of Lyme, as well as avoid proper diagnosis and/or effective treatment...

p) and the compounded effect of undiagnosed, untreated people living symptomatic lives and infecting other people...

I mean, I could go on and on and on. A few years ago I actually put some numbers to those assumptions and came up with a possible 2 million new cases/yr which others have suggested is low-balled.

So, no, it's not at all conspiratorial to suggest that MOST people by now probably do have the Bb microbe in their bodies. This is a given, IMO. And it helps my anxiety about "infecting others".

The REAL question is - let's better understand why some people remain healthy and others don't.

-p

Post Edited (Pirouette) : 10/7/2017 4:15:29 PM (GMT-6)


Vgrantn
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2017
Total Posts : 14
   Posted 10/7/2017 2:51 PM (GMT -6)   
This may be a bit of a tmi, butI had active lymes disease for 6 months to a year, and I let other people hit my vape plenty of times and none of them seem to have gotten lymes. Hope this helps (don't know about sexual contact or blood to blood though)

hopelessinmo
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 44
   Posted 10/7/2017 2:53 PM (GMT -6)   
The funny thing is, I've never been a mouth kisser either. As a kid, it grossed me out when family wanted to kiss my lips. For whatever reason, it just happened that way with my kiddos. The baby grabs my face and plants a drooly one on me and he always aims at my mouth. The older one did it too, and it's just how things stayed I guess. No one else kisses them at all, just me and their daddy. Not that it takes away anything if we don't, they're just used to it being that way.
Even a cheek kiss can be a little wet unintentionally, and that freaks me out. I think, oh, huh, maybe I should wash the baby's face.
I was a germaphob prior to all of this, so that little thing in my brain keeping me LOOKING normal popped. Too many people have given me grief about kids needing to be exposed to germs for their immune system, yadda yadda but they do have a good immune system and I don't let them eat crap off the floor at a restaurant (seriously that was one of the conversations I had to have with a friend when I threw out something that hit the floor). My kids are exposed to enough germs I don't need to add more to them, and like Pirouette said, something they can never rid their bodies of.
I need to make meditating a habit so I actually do it. I've made a few attempts but couldn't focus on my breathing, so I didn't return to it.
I've read about a partner taking astragalus as well, but it immediately left my mind. I think I'll get right on getting that for him. I guess I need to find out a good brand and dosage before I accidently get a crappy one (which I've already done with some stuff) *sigh*

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 26474
   Posted 10/7/2017 3:15 PM (GMT -6)   
Re: good sources for herbs.


I generally buy from Buhner's recommended sources;

I mostly buy from woodland Essence.

I have purchased from Sage Woman Herbs when WE was out of a product I needed.


/woodlandessence.com

But, it will take a week or a bit longer before you get the herbs.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

mcspike
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 165
   Posted 10/7/2017 7:01 PM (GMT -6)   
Im thinking that since chronic Lyme disease isnt JUST LYME, but involves bacterium such as chlamydophila and mycoplasma that which BOTH are HIGHLY contagious and are intracelllular. Lyme disease also almost always includes highly contagious viruses!!!

So...is it really over-reacting when someone is being careful not to spread illness. You just do not know the individuals immune system capabilities, so WHY would you want to risk infection by mouth kissing, sharing drink and utensils?

It doesnt make you a worrier, or paranoid, but it DOES make you a thoughtful person in your attempts to spare others...

Thats my two cents!!!

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 26474
   Posted 10/7/2017 7:05 PM (GMT -6)   
I agree mcspike....taking precautions like you mentioned.


No need to be paranoid...mouth kissing - no, but cheek kissing - yes (IMO)
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Missouri
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 32
   Posted 10/11/2017 7:28 AM (GMT -6)   
What are Vanco antibiotics? Pirouette said "I've done so well on Vanco abx because it's broad-spectrum."

Thanks!

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 26474
   Posted 10/11/2017 11:01 AM (GMT -6)   
Vanco = Vancomycin

Vanco is an antibiotic that Pirouette has been using (in IV) for lyme and co's.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

hopelessinmo
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 44
   Posted 10/11/2017 3:14 PM (GMT -6)   
And at what point do you decide you can share food or not be... overly cautious about maybe a little bit too drooly of a kiss?
My LLMD just doesn't seem interested in treating any coinfections right now so it may be a long time before anything for sure surfaces. So I guess this just has to be the new norm? I already have quite a few walls built up around me, and this gets to be one more.
I ****ing hate this...

Girlie
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2014
Total Posts : 26474
   Posted 10/11/2017 3:50 PM (GMT -6)   
hopelessinmo - are you symptom free now?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Rikky1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2015
Total Posts : 2414
   Posted 10/11/2017 5:38 PM (GMT -6)   
there's zero doubt in my mind lyme disease (and whatever else goes along with it when you get infected by a tick) can definitely be transmitted sexually. i gave it to my wife for sure. spreading via saliva and/or through the mouth i think is far less likely given how it would need to get into your bloodstream to wreak havoc.

sexually on the other hand is a far easier transmission. lyme bug is similar to syphilis so unsure why we think it would function differently?

i wouldn't get crazy about it but if you are having sex its probably a good idea to use protection so you can minimize semen/vaginal fluids exchange.

hopelessinmo
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 44
   Posted 10/11/2017 6:46 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey girlie, I am not symptom free. Things have simmered down but I'm still experiencing most of everything I've had all along with the new skin situation.
My husband and I do use condoms and I'm guessing that'll just have to be indefinite.
If borrelia is in a ticks saliva, it seems like it could be in ours too. I'm kinda torn when it comes to any and all theories over transmission
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