Feel like I'm never going to be abto treat or get better

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countingstarsx
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Date Joined Jan 2016
Total Posts : 156
   Posted 10/5/2017 8:43 AM (GMT -6)   
After asking everyone what they do for detox I decided to go after treatment again. I spent a few days working on detox, drinking lemon water all day, alka seltzer gold, milk thistle a few times a day, Dry brushing, activated charcoal, chlorella, and making sure I'm eliminating.

So yesterday I tried to take just one drop of Japanese Knotweed. Just one! I was hit with a rage so strong, I screamed at my daughter over things that would normally be just a minor annoyance. After she went to bed I felt so bad I spent the rest of the night crying and scared about what happened.

Now I feel like its too scary to continue because she doesnt deserve that. I feel like I'm never going to get better because I am never going to be able to treat! I feel so scared and beat down today. Last night wasnt me, and once the rage turned off I was so so so guilty. I'm not used to rage like that, the neuro sx I get are usually anxiety and paranoia.

Then again I'm also scared if I dont treat I'm just going to get worse too, so I'm darned if I do and darned if I dont.

ChickenArise
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   Posted 10/5/2017 8:49 AM (GMT -6)   
The people who love you will understand. You do have to explain to her exactly what you explained to us as soon as possible.

I got better from the rage and paranoia and you can too. Your awareness of it is impressive. I was not aware of it until well after. I have since apologized to everyone and they still love me.

Never give up.

2014 Mold Sick,2015 Clinical Lyme and co.,2016 Morgellons,2017 Remission
YT (for now): www.tinyurl.com/ClintFromNYtoVA
Twitter: @ClintFromNYtoVA
Blog: www.fascinatingtimetobealive.blogspot.com/
“The privilege of a lifetime is to become who you truly are.”


countingstarsx
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Date Joined Jan 2016
Total Posts : 156
   Posted 10/5/2017 9:00 AM (GMT -6)   
Chickenarise,
Thank you so much for your kind words.

What helped you with the rage and paranoia? I'm having to self treat and its so difficult!

Ive already apologized to my daughter several times. Its hard though, she turns 3 on Sunday so she doesn't really understand what's going on. I can tell she is a worrier like me too, when I am upset she asks me over and over if I am happy, same with when I am sick.

I desperately don't want this to affect her. She is so young and perfect and innocent.

PeteZa
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   Posted 10/5/2017 9:36 AM (GMT -6)   
Aw countingstarsx, your wee one sounds adorable and she sure wants you to be happy.

I am sorry this happen and I have read that sometimes an herb can cause an intense reaction.

There are a couple of ways to handle this. One way - since 1 drop is too much you need to work up to that one drop. You can put that 1 drop into a small glass (very small glass) of water and take only 1/3 of it. That way you are only getting 1/3 of a drop. You might have to start this way and I have read of many that had to do it this way. Moving up super slowly. And to move up slowly you would take 1/3 the next day. It can sit out on the counter and be alright.

Way two - you can skip Japanese Knotweed for now and come back to it. Is there another herb in Buhner's protocol that you have taken before? That herb would be a good one to start with. You will just have to test another herb to see how you react.

If you started detoxing for only a few days and added in all of those detoxing methods, your reaction may have been from the detoxing, not the 1 drop of herb.

Detoxing has to be done low and slow also. Detoxing has to be done one at a time and slowly adding in more until you have a lot of detoxing methods going each day. Our bodies are designed to take care of detoxing daily, that's why we have kidneys and livers.

Every glass of clean water you drink is a "detox" elixir. Every stalk of celery you chew and swallow is a detox food. Every glass of fresh-squeezed orange juice you drink is a detox beverage. Every algae superfood you eat is a "detox" superfood. Every exercise that produces sweat is a detox exercise, and every hike into nature where you are surrounded by trees is a detox hike.

Detoxing the liver and the kidneys actually puts the toxins in the GI tract and ultimately to be eliminated. If you aren't doing enough fiber you can actually reabsorb the toxins that you have just eliminated from your kidneys and liver.

So maybe your reaction was over detoxing? Just guessing here.
____________

Good Article

countingstarsx
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Date Joined Jan 2016
Total Posts : 156
   Posted 10/5/2017 11:20 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for the response PeteZa!

My little is pretty cute, but the way she asks over and over seems to me like she is worried about how her normal toddler behavior affects my mood, and she shouldn't have the responsibility of how I feel upon her shoulders. :/

Its unfortunate that I am so incredibly sensitive. Last time I tried JK I had an intense reaction too, but not until I got to 2 drops a day, and it was more of a flu feeling than neuro. That's why I was trying detox before starting again.

I can take cordyceps and ashwagandha with no adverse effect, and I was previously on a few drops of red sage/chinese skullcap with no problem. That's where I was at last time I tried JK.

I was thinking this time my approach would be to have detox down, and then just go down his list from top to bottom and build up to a small amount of each once a day, and increase from there. I wish I had someone to guide me! Thanks for the alternate suggestion though, its nice to know at least there are others who have done this approach and have experience to share!

I'm positive my issue is one of detox -- likely of not being able to. I eat clean, I drink lots of water but am chronically constipated. That's a big hindrance in eliminating toxins. I'm currently doing a biofeedback program in hopes to fix that, I'm really praying it works!

MAF249
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2017
Total Posts : 118
   Posted 10/5/2017 12:09 PM (GMT -6)   
you could also try taking the more difficult herbs at night to sleep through some of the mood issues. Its worth trying. by the time you wake up it will mostly be out of your system and had done its job.

countingstarsx
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2016
Total Posts : 156
   Posted 10/5/2017 12:12 PM (GMT -6)   
Maf249, I was actually just considering that for tonight, possibly taking them a few hours before bed and then taking activated charcoal right before I go to sleep. Thanks for the suggestion!

ChickenArise
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Date Joined Nov 2015
Total Posts : 1122
   Posted 10/5/2017 12:47 PM (GMT -6)   
countingstarsx said...
Chickenarise,
Thank you so much for your kind words.

What helped you with the rage and paranoia? I'm having to self treat and its so difficult!



Self treating is extremely difficult in so many ways. I only did it because I was forced to as doctors didnt believe me nor would they give me the tests I asked for. I pay all my medical out of pocket so I dont understand why they wouldnt honor my wishes.

Maybe it was my parents leaving Panama to go back to the US that helped the rage. But dad is back now and if I were to but heads with anyone it would be him. He drinks a lot.

We havent had any incidents on this trip. We had the potential for one as he raised his voice but rather than react I remained calm.

He sobered up and apologized and I said I had forgotten about it already.

I dont want anyone to have the power to trigger me, so I cant take anyone's words to heart. It is my choice what I decide to get angry about, but I didnt think like this at the time.

I am not sure exactly what helped and when the rage and paranoia subsided. I see it in my brother who was also infected in my then moldy house and I dont know how to help him. All he has done so far are abx and I have told him several times what helped me and he keeps telling me he plans to do it but doesnt.

I spoke with his doctor and she said she wanted him to do the protocol I had used. She attended the Dr. Fry conference in the spring also. But she also wanted him to do expensive mold testing.

I wish my brother would trust me but he is in that state of paranoia, and whats worse is he thinks hes better physically. He has always been arrogant and stubborn so its hard to tell, but I can tell.

At the time I was treating with Nascent Iodine and Fluconazole. Then I did the Klinghardt antihelmintic protocol.

You are going to have to make tough choices while trusting your instincts which is difficult. However, Youre in the company of some very smart and resourceful people on this forum. Consider yourself very lucky to have found them. I dont know what I would have done without them.

Feel free to contact me by email if you think I can be of further assistance.

2014 Mold Sick,2015 Clinical Lyme and co.,2016 Morgellons,2017 Remission
YT (for now): www.tinyurl.com/ClintFromNYtoVA
Twitter: @ClintFromNYtoVA
Blog: www.fascinatingtimetobealive.blogspot.com/
“The privilege of a lifetime is to become who you truly are.”

Post Edited (ChickenArise) : 10/5/2017 12:52:51 PM (GMT-6)


Jinna
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Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 692
   Posted 10/5/2017 2:26 PM (GMT -6)   
JK was one of the hardest herb I ever took too.

I was using ridiculous amounts largely diluted in water (through decoctions).
Like one tiny piece of bark in 2 big cups of water or even more water, and I only took SIPS of it during the day, and ALREADY CRASHED.

So I do understand you.

But I NEVER thought that that meant I was not going to be well again.

I always knew I cannot take a lot.
I did loads of muscle tests to see how much I could take of each herb.

And it was almost always LEVEL 1 of Buhner or LESS than that.

I never raised more than level 2 for most herbs, and always improved.

Then I wrote a few times to him, back in 2005 or 2006, as I was one of the first using his protocol back then, and he then changed his opinion about these amounts (from his first book recommendations, I mean).

He now says that each person has different tolerance levels, and that many people DO improve with very small amounts.

My case was like that, for sure.

I had a 1 year old child, who could read my feelings too.
When she started talking, she kept asking Are you OK? when she noticed.

How can a child grow like that, with this mother, I thought?
Well, she's now almost 14 and has no trauma from my suffering or bad mood, I think.

Or I hope!!

Just treat yourself, take many binders (have you tried MSM?), don't push the herbs too much.
You'll make it, and your child will adjust to your situation.

I never EVER reached even level 3 of Buhner's recommendations and could reach remission quite a few times only with herbs (but more than Buhner's, as I added Cowden, some Chinese, Indian and still had dr. K's herbs and homeopathics on top).

All of these, I took in small amounts (except for binders, that I took in CRAZY amounts).
Like that, I slowly improved, until remission.

countingstarsx
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2016
Total Posts : 156
   Posted 10/5/2017 3:44 PM (GMT -6)   
Thank you Jinna.

I know I cant take large amounts, but it's hard to not get discouraged when I can't take small ones either. May I will just give JK a few months and work on the others and then start with very very small amounts.

I hate the set back though. I get to this point, and then I am scared to take anything else until I come back to baseline. I was fine most of the day today, but now I'm over emotional and feel like crying over nothing. Ill probably have to deal with the extremes for a few more days. I ordered Burbur-pinella a few days ago, so hopefully that will help me some.

I havent tried MSM. Don't actually know much about it. Is it strictly a binder? I just passed up a bag of it for fifty cents yesterday maybe I should see if it is still at the store.

What all did you use for binders?

delisa
New Member


Date Joined Jul 2017
Total Posts : 5
   Posted 10/5/2017 7:42 PM (GMT -6)   
The charcoal will add to the constipation problems, so I rarely take it.

I believe Buhner stated (wish I could find where I read this) that there were two substitutions for knotweed, though not as effective. The least effective, but possibly a good solution for you, was arabinogalactose. I used it previously for relief of constipation.

countingstarsx
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2016
Total Posts : 156
   Posted 10/5/2017 7:56 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks Delisa,

I actually have some larch arabinogalactan. I used it in my treatment for SIBO. Havent taken it in awhile, but maybe I will.

Ive heard that charcoal can cause constipation, and shied away from it for a long time. I havent found it to really put more strain on my digestive system, probably because it seems the root of my constipation is the pelvic floor muscles.

summer16
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Date Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts : 1258
   Posted 10/5/2017 8:08 PM (GMT -6)   
I, too, couldn’t tolerate JK. The rage was unbearable. I started with 1/3 drop and still had this reaction along with extreme sob. I changed to Stephanie as per Buhner’s book and was ok.

Have you tried magnesium citrate? It keeps the bowels moving.

Patty
toxic effects from 2 doses of Levaquin in 2008.....Xanax for 4 monrhs in 2008 (horrific withdrawal effects)......CDC positive for Lyme's in 2009 (prescribed 200 mg daily of doxycycline for 2 months........extreme fatigue, anxiety, decreased cognition, etc. and was becoming worse in 2012......tested for Lyme's through Igenix and was CDC positive.....treatment started 9/2012

countingstarsx
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2016
Total Posts : 156
   Posted 10/5/2017 8:17 PM (GMT -6)   
Summer,

Did you have any reaction to stephania?

I am unable to tolerate magnesium in any form. I'm having a lot of success so far with biofeedback therapy for the pelvic floor.

mcspike
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 165
   Posted 10/6/2017 1:43 PM (GMT -6)   
For addressing the massive inflammation, my Dr. prescribes activated charcoal w/chlorella, slippery elm bark, &redmond clay(its all in one caplet). I also WAS taking HIGH dose fish oil and meriva curcumin. I became intolerant to the fish oil so am now taking sunflower lecithin by 'now' & its working fine alongwith magnesium citrate to keep bowels moving which is VERY important, as you know. Also, which has been VERY essential for me is high dose b vitamin w/methy folate!

The #1 most commonly missed (by LLMD & LLND) most forgotten issue in Lyme & Co's is heavy metal toxicity. It causes fits of rage, anxiety, muscle twitchimg, tremors, etc etc.

Dr's Data is who I used for heavy metals testing>the urine test for i think $90 u.s. $'s!

I hope & pray you find some relief.

Pirouette
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Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 5803
   Posted 10/6/2017 3:52 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi countingstarsx -

All great advice already - I'd dilute your doses as much as possible and don't be in a hurry to work up to higher doses to start with. Let your body acclimate.

Alternatively, I have had to stop taking some herbs and move on and come back to them (some I will never try again) - absolutely NOTHING wrong with that. If your body has trouble detoxing, the process will simply take awhile - you will have to be patient. But that dos not mean you will not heal.

I'm so glad you're trying binders - they ALL must be taken with a lot of water (minimum 64 oz) and sometimes it's good to drink a lot of your daily water intake right after the binder. Once I got acclimated to binders, they helped make me very regular so constipation was not an issue. You might also try taking a tablespoon of tart cherry juice as a natural laxative after your binder - remember the 2 hr buffer time zones before and after your binder. Instead of charcoal, try bentonite clay, which is more of a liquid - not a LOT different than charcoal but could be helpful.

So, the rage is what is called a "neuro-psych" sx caused by neurotransmitter imbalances. I continue to have these and I'm still in the process of figuring out what my body needs although I've made tremendous progress so far. Gut health is key - which sounds like is in good shape for you. Binders are essential and you're working that in.

Next might be supplementation and this is where it can get complicated. Have you ever had any neurotransmitter analysis done? It's usually tested by saliva samples. You might ask your ND about this (MDs are generally clueless). There are maybe a dozen primary neurotransmitters that your body produces or utilizes in its daily chemical reactions that also produce/utilize hormones - the endocrine, digestion and immune functions are all interconnected. So this might take some sleuthing but you've covered some ground already.

Hope this is helpful -

-p
Lyme Moderator
Chronic late-stage lyme—likely infected in '00; Clinically dx Mar'14 w/ Babs, Fry Labs+ Bart-like, CDC+ Bb. First treated 4-5 viruses & GI/immune. Herbal antimicrobials in May; IV port-started Rocephin in Nov; added vancomycin Mar'16;
DETOX: Pinella/Burbur/Parsley/Milk thistle/Burdock/Red root; Samento/Banderol/Enula; JK/Turmeric; BFM-1; antifung; many many supps; cholestyramine!

countingstarsx
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2016
Total Posts : 156
   Posted 10/6/2017 10:15 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks Pirouette for the insight,

I've decided to go on without JK for the time being, and possibly come back in the future.

The neuro sx have calmed down and hope has returned, thank goodness!

I haven't had neurotransmitter analysis done. Sounds interesting, and I think my ND has more expertise in that than lyme. Unfortunately I am low on finances and I am sure that would be an out of pocket test.

I've decided to take a break from my ND because it doesn't feel like he has much lyme experience. I am strongly considering getting a consult with a Buhner recommended herbalist though.

Jinna
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Date Joined May 2017
Total Posts : 692
   Posted 10/7/2017 11:26 AM (GMT -6)   
MCspike wrote:

"For addressing the massive inflammation, my Dr. prescribes activated charcoal w/chlorella, slippery elm bark, &redmond clay(its all in one caplet). I also WAS taking HIGH dose fish oil and meriva curcumin. I became intolerant to the fish oil so am now taking sunflower lecithin by 'now' & its working fine alongwith magnesium citrate to keep bowels moving which is VERY important, as you know. Also, which has been VERY essential for me is high dose b vitamin w/methy folate!"

I also like those detox / binders.

But MSM is SO easy to take (just read about it), very safe unless you can't take sulphur.

The binding effect is faster than most things, it's cheap, it helps with lowering lactic acid.

My favorite trio was chlorella, bear garlic and MSM, that I kept rotating.

Charcoal, I barely felt anything, but it did help a bit. Clay, helped very minimally, but I rotated it too.

Magnesium citrate, I love that too. Mg is a must, in my opinion.

Keep working on binders, until you find your good and bad ones.

Omega 3 is also a must, in my opinion.
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