Vitamin D3, really a hormone

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Denjski
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Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 105
   Posted 1/31/2009 6:12 PM (GMT -6)   
Maybe this was discussed earlier, but, have any of you been reading the studies done on vitamin D3? the "sun" vitamin, actually a hormone.. It was proved that a lack of D3 can cause MS....proving why people who live in sunny climates there is virtually no MS

In one study, they followed Irish who had immigrated to Australia....
while the rates of MS stayed the same in Ireland, there was a significant decrease in the Irish who had immigrated to sunny Australia


They also link D3 lack to a host of autoimmune diseases and diabetes Do a search on "vitamin D3 MS" and be amazed at what pops up.....I have started taking 10,000 IU a day...it immeadiatly did one thing, took care of the SAD I was going through, seasonal affliction disorder...

I live in upstate New York..we are at 130 inches of snow...20 miles north of me they are close to 200inches. We have had temps around zero and below, WITHOUT windchill! Right now its 14F, -5 with wchill.... and dark. Where I am is a MS cluster, 4 to 5 times the national average. I would also like to point out that this part of the state was settled by immigrants who already have a high rate of MS
Northern European desecent

One of the D3 reports mentioned that we evolved in a warm sunny climate, and also, we ate mainly fresh fruits, vegtables and lean wild game, and NO grains, whole or other wise, at all.

So, eat healthy and fresh, get plenty of sunshine. The studies also pointed out that it was imperative that young children, birth to about 16, get as much vitamin D3 that is required to prevent MS from even starting...there are blood tests that you can take to see if you lacking, and, and, in EVERY person they tested with MS, they were severely lacking the hormone, D3

you know, I'm going to hate it that I got MS just because of where I live
It seemed like a good idea at the time


popsie
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Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 271
   Posted 2/1/2009 3:47 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Denjski,

Yes, you're right about everything and I especially agree on the diet stuff but unfortunately there are exceptions to every rule. I grew up in the sunny southern hemisphere (Africa) & now live in Australia (lots more sun) but have had RRMS since 10. So that alone is not enough, my mom had MS too (she was from the UK) but lived in Africa from about 25. But she too had been hospitalised twice as a child.

However, I do think that the sunshine might be why we both have had RRMS for 35 years (50 years in her case) before degenerating to SPMS. But perhaps we just have a similar variety. I have read that where there is a genetic link the type of symptoms seem to be the same. We certainly both have pain as the major symptom which I think is quite unusual.

In my street there is another family from Africa, origins in UK, the Dad has MS, one daughter has diabetes 1, one has chronic fatigue, and one MS. So for some of us the genes seem to be the most important thing.

Enjoy your life I envy you the snow as hot & humid is really difficult if you have MS. Go the diet I feel much better (no more fatigue) since I started following it.
wink wink wink
Have had relapsing/remitting MS since 10 yrs old. Secondary/progressive since 1995.
Row, row, row your boat gently down the stream
Merrily , merrily, merrily, life is but a dream


Denjski
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Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 105
   Posted 2/1/2009 2:01 PM (GMT -6)   
Hello poopsie...The thing about MS is that it seems to be a collection of issues that seems to trigger it..

Genetics, diet, and sunlight seems to be the main culprits. I have read where a lot of people with MS have been able to control their MS through either diet or D3 or both....It doesn't cure their MS, but it vastly improves their health..

The only thing we can not control is our genetic history...you mentioned your mother and your neighbors, those darn pesky genes..........and your diet

I stay away from proccessed food, limit my pizza, usually garlic with cheese, spinch and roasted red peppers, cannot remember the last time I ate red meat, mostly chicken or turkey, lots of salads, fruits, veggies, hummus, flax seed breads.....right now I just finished whole grain blueberry waffles with organic maple syrup and a cup of darjeeling tea,

and poopsie, snow is nice but when it gets up to 130 inches, almost 3 meters, it gets a little tiring
It seemed like a good idea at the time


Denjski
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 105
   Posted 2/1/2009 2:02 PM (GMT -6)   
sorry, its popsie...not poopsie
It seemed like a good idea at the time


popsie
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 271
   Posted 2/1/2009 6:58 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Denjski,

Have you read about calcium aminoethylphosphate (Cal EAP or CaEAP) injections ($18) developed in Germany by Dr Hans Nieper (reputedly very successful with helping MS) & used for MS therapy. It is a mineral that makes up 15% of the nerve cell membrane & repairs areas of demyelination sealing areas of damaged cell membrane. I do not know where you live but there is a Dr Gary Moore, a wholistic physician in Indianapolis who has MS, used it himself and has stabilized his MS. It is also available in Canada. They say 70% to 80% of patients get better, though some see no change at all. I am looking into it here but it does work the best if you take it as soon as possible after diagnosis though even patients who have had MS for 10 to 15 years show improvement. smilewinkgrin
Have had relapsing/remitting MS since 10 yrs old. Secondary/progressive since 1995.
Row, row, row your boat gently down the stream
Merrily , merrily, merrily, life is but a dream


Steph57
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 58
   Posted 2/12/2009 5:28 PM (GMT -6)   
confused  
Hey folks:
 
I had (i.e., forced) my doc to run a D3 test and I have only HALF!!!! the amount that would be adequate for someone who has no underlying medical condition! He has prescribed 50,000 IU D3 once every two weeks. I'm waiting to hear back from my neurologist if this is O.K. Any thoughts??
 
Steph57
 
"The more he spoke of his honor,
The faster we counted our spoons."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
 
 


Denjski
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 105
   Posted 2/14/2009 7:59 PM (GMT -6)   
The 50,000 every two weeks sounds just about right, its about 10,000 I.U. a day, which is what I take...you need to take a calcium supplement along with the D3 for it to work

I take 5000 IU in the morning along with 1000mg Calcium, and in the evening, same....

I think its better to daily dose, and healthier... :-)
It seemed like a good idea at the time


Beau2006
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Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 388
   Posted 2/19/2009 12:46 PM (GMT -6)   

Hi there, hope all is fine. High dosages of Vitamin D might be a great solution - in fact, high dosage of vitamin D can, as discussed here, deplete your calcium requirments, as well, it will cause liver damage.

My neurologist advised that I should take no more than 2000 units per day, which is a safe limit that will not interfere with liver functions.  I have read quite abit about this, and every thing that I read advised me that 2000 units is ample, and again, will not interfere with liver functions, and/or cause damage to this organ.  Anyone that I do know, MS or not, that are taking Vitamin D suppliments, are taking no more than 2000 units per day.  I even went as far as talking to my pharmasist, who also agreed one should not exceed 2000 per day.

Alternate to taking an abundance of Vitamin D for SAD, there are light therapies that are available that will do the trick just as efficiently - with out the danger of causing liver damage.

Just my two cents worth

Gary


Steph57
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Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 58
   Posted 2/19/2009 6:04 PM (GMT -6)   

O.K.

I'm in a hurry here, so just quickly--

My calcium+D supplement is D: 125IUs/calcium: 500mgs, twice a day. I've been on that for about 10 years. Now, plus the 50,000 D3 My MD prescribed for once every two weeks. I am seeing my neurologist next week and hope to pepper her with ?????????????s and, I hope, get some answers.

Thanks y'all!

Steph57 confused

P.S. Any more knowledge you can share would be great!


 


Gretchen1
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Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3539
   Posted 2/19/2009 8:40 PM (GMT -6)   
You may want to ask about blood work to check for liver function with the high dose vitamin D3. Good luck at the neuro appointment. Let us know how it goes.
Gretchen       co-moderator MS board       diagnosed with MS July 2006
 
I have no lesions on my soul and so I will live with no limits.


Denjski
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 105
   Posted 2/19/2009 10:57 PM (GMT -6)   
This is Dennis, as for the D3... at just about every website I located about D3, the vitamin can be well tolerated in high doses...there is a vitamin D web site set up by one of the federal health agencyies that can give you more info than I can...just google what I wrote and it will direct you there.

If there is anything I have learned from the different readings, if I had children, I would be making sure during the winter they were getting sufficent amounts of D3, that figure being at least 4000 IU a day either pills or diet
It seemed like a good idea at the time


Beau2006
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 388
   Posted 2/20/2009 9:25 AM (GMT -6)   

Hi there and good morning - we must travel in different circles then, as the web sites that I visit suggest otherwise.. But I am not just relying on web site for this information, my neurologist, to my family doctor, to my pharmasist all advised that the recommened dosage for Vitamin D is 2000 units per day.  Read the labels on all of the med bottles, and it will also suggest the same....The Cancer Society of Canada identifies the health risks involved if too much vitamin D is taken, and they even go as far as suggesing that daily limits should be restricted to 1000 units.

Now having said this, if you are running severely low on vitamin D in your system it is not uncommon to take very high dosages of this drug to get your levels up to where they should be, but it must be monitored often to determine when you have been "topped up" and once you reach this goal, the medication should then be reduced back down to between 400 - 1000 units per day.....for maintenance purposes.

 

Gary


Denjski
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 105
   Posted 2/22/2009 1:36 PM (GMT -6)   
I would like you to check out this site, www.grouppekurosawa.com Do a search on this site and see what he says about D3.. He is well trained. Berekely and Harvard, in assessing the pros and cons of D3, and I know you have to thoughtfully read any material on the web, and see the orgin of the material.

There have been a couple of sites where posts claim they have thrown away their wheel chairs when they start taking 40.000 to 50,000 IU a day! Every website I've been to says this is way too much to keep doing om a regular basis.

But the old recommended amounts, 400 IU to 1000IU is way too low, especially if you live far from the equator and there is a history of autoimmune disease in your family..and you do have to be tested for D3 at the doctor's and check your levels, but, EVERY patient with MS who was tested showed a huge deficent of D3

(Mod Note: Just activated u'r link.)

Post Edited By Moderator (rhondab) : 2/22/2009 1:59:44 PM (GMT-7)


Beau2006
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 388
   Posted 2/23/2009 10:18 AM (GMT -6)   

HI there, from the Canadian MS Society.....this is only a portion of the arcticle, as it is rather long, but what I wanted to point out was the effects of high dosages of vitamin D..

___________________________________________________________________________

Study Reports Possible Link Between Vitamin D and Reduced MS Risk

Medical Update Memo
January 16, 2004

“If people with MS are considering trying Vitamin D as a supplement, they should be aware that high doses of Vitamin D can be toxic, and they have been linked to heart problems and kidney failure,” he added. The publication Compendium of Pharmaceuticals and Specialties recommends a daily dosage of Vitamin D at 400 to 800 IU for adults. Those who believe in additional supplementation suggest that 1,000 to 4,000 IU daily can be taken without harmful side effects. People considering taking Vitamin D supplements should discuss it with
their physicians.

Excessive intake of supplemental vitamin D can have serious, toxic effects on the body, including excessive calcium levels in the blood, high blood pressure, nausea, anorexia, impaired kidney function and kidney damage".
 

[Adapted from Research/Clinical Update, National Multiple Sclerosis Society (USA)]

 

Have a nice day,

Gary

 

 

Denjski
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 105
   Posted 2/24/2009 11:15 PM (GMT -6)   
yes, that's what they thought five years ago, there has been much more recent research done
It seemed like a good idea at the time


Gretchen1
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Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3539
   Posted 2/25/2009 8:19 AM (GMT -6)   
Remember here that we can agree to disagree. And now for my two cents worth. I take 2,000 IU a day. I have regular blood tests that confirm I am not having any problems with any of my supplements. I LOVE D3. If I skip a few days, I really notice a difference. The other supplement I really think is helping me is niacin. It has natural anti-inflammatory properties. It also has anti-anxiety properties. I notice being more mellow and more able to roll with life's punches. Ok that is it for me.
Gretchen       co-moderator MS board       diagnosed with MS July 2006
 
I have no lesions on my soul and so I will live with no limits.


Beau2006
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 388
   Posted 2/25/2009 9:29 AM (GMT -6)   

Hi there and good morning - I agree that a good discussion is always healthy, and that hearing a variety of ideas is a good thing.  Having said this, one needs to be careful when suggesting dosage limits, expecially when there are health risks involved.  That is the only reason why I put it out there that taking too much Vitamin D does have its health risks. 

And although Denjski could be correct, I do find it difficult to beleive that both the National MS Society and the Canadian MS Society are both five years behind on recent research - that to me does not make much sense.

I'm sticking to the 2000 unit per day like you Gretch - just like my neurologist ordered.

 

Have a nice day.

Gary

 


rhondab
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Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 2146
   Posted 2/25/2009 11:09 AM (GMT -6)   
Hey Gary and Everyone

This is an interesting thread, but seems to be diverging to a debate. Agreeing to disagree as Gretchen suggested earlier is where we seem to be. Let's call this thread done here and end our posting to it. Thanks eveyone!
rhonda
Co-Moderator, MS Forum
 
*~*Sometimes the Lord calms the storm. Sometimes He lets the storm rage and calms His child.*~*
 
Things that make u go hummmm......
*I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be without sponges.*
*One day without sunshine is like...um..well...night?*


Dagger
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Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 1522
   Posted 2/25/2009 6:56 PM (GMT -6)   
Many of the people that I know that have tested very low for Vit. D were prescribed around 5,000-10,000 IU/day until their levels were back into a healthy range. Once their levels were back up, they went down to about 1,000/day. These people are all over the country seeing different doctors so this seems like a common dosage to me.

They all had their blood levels checked and were monitored frequently by their docs while they were on the high dosages.

donnaeil
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Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 1156
   Posted 4/4/2009 10:18 PM (GMT -6)   
It is D2 that is taken at 50,000. D3 is at 2,000 per day. I think that may be the discrepancy.

Donnaeil

Gretchen1
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Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3539
   Posted 4/4/2009 11:10 PM (GMT -6)   
At a recent research symposium, the new suggestion is: if you have MS, take 3,000 IU of D3 per day.  There is no risk of toxicity at this level.  Dennis has the correct info here.  The recent research has changed on this.  D3 is considered very safe at quite high IU dosages.  There is such a strong link to MS and D3 problems that the researchers presenting also suggested your blood siblings and children should also be on this dosage of D3.

Gretchen       co-moderator MS board       diagnosed with MS July 2006
 
I have no lesions on my soul and so I will live with no limits.


Denjski
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 105
   Posted 4/5/2009 1:31 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Gretchen...I recently found a trial done by the University of Toronto to test D3 amounts ans limits...of course I can't figure out how to cut and paste the address

you know, a lot of this is how no sunshine can trigger MS in people who have the gene...I grew up in Central New York..we have the highest snowfall in the NATION for areas of 10,000 pop or greater our snowfall for this year is about 130 inches, more than 10 feet, and lowest amount of sunshine in the country...its more cloudy than Seattle and London..CNY is a MS plague... our MS rates are 3 to 4 times the national average..

.make sure your children are getting enough D3...I read the most important time in your life for D3 is between 3 and 15 yrs old, right when the body is growing
It seemed like a good idea at the time


Gretchen1
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Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3539
   Posted 4/6/2009 3:22 PM (GMT -6)   
.........and then there is me!!  I grew up in sunny california.  I was outside everyday!!  I was at the beach or sailing or riding my bike!  I was constantly getting sun!  I was nice and brown.......go figure.  I also loved milk as a kid.  This MS is a huge mystery. 

Gretchen       co-moderator MS board       diagnosed with MS July 2006
 
I have no lesions on my soul and so I will live with no limits.


Denjski
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 105
   Posted 4/8/2009 11:59 PM (GMT -6)   
So you had plenty of sun, milk and you probably had plenty of fresh fruits and veggies......the other trigger being high fat foods not applicable

I've wondered if pollution has an effect in triggering MS...I also grew up in a factory town, 4 blocks away from the main building, constant traffic, both trucks and trains, always...24x7

my mother would hang laundry to dry outside in the back yard and run outside to pull it down if the smoke stacks started to belch clouds of crap that left black specks on the laundry, and there was the steel mill...were you in near anything like that?
It seemed like a good idea at the time


Gretchen1
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Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3539
   Posted 4/10/2009 8:27 PM (GMT -6)   

I grew up about 3 miles from the beach.  I was in a typical suburban neighborhood.  I rode my bicycle everywhere, including to high school.  My mom was an RN and made sure we ate well.  I am not real sure about the air quality but I am thinking it was pretty good.  I was not near any sort of industrial area. 

It is a mystery.


Gretchen       co-moderator MS board       diagnosed with MS July 2006
 
I have no lesions on my soul and so I will live with no limits.

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