help with putting on eakin seal

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tkctwbd
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2007
Total Posts : 82
   Posted 4/11/2009 7:48 AM (GMT -6)   
I'm using the hollister convexity and paste with great success: longest time has been 80 hrs. Only week ago I was leaking two hrs after applying bag.

I ordered some eakin seals, but not sure if I am doing it right. Last night I change bag and tried a seal. I found it to be more sticky than I thought it would be, and had trouble applying it around my stoma (I decided putting the seal directly around the stoma would be better than putting on the bag).

I have some skin breakdown around stoma and applied the powder and wipes x 2.

I tried the best I could to push the seal close to the stoma. Would it be ok to use water to keep the seal from being so sticky on my fingers?

Then I put on the convexity bag. I found out it is best to cut the whole a little bit larger than the stoma. Am I right? I am so compulsive about cutting hole the right size and it is hard to apply the bag over the stoma because I am looking at it lying down and it is hard to get perspective. Do you ever feel confident putting the bag over the stoma? I may have to go back using paste, but I just ordered a box of seals.

Any hints for beginner? ...Thanks

peggy113
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 1998
   Posted 4/11/2009 8:47 AM (GMT -6)   
I use Eakin Seals and have been for about a year now and LOVE, LOVE them. BUt I don't find it necessary to use the whole seal. I only use a strip of it, like you would in place of the paste - just around the hole that is cut for the stoma. I just cut a strip from around the edge of the Eakin about an 1/8" or so wide and just enough to go around the hole in the wafer one time. You can also make sure the Eakin is secure to the wafer easily esp right around the hole that is cut in the wafer and then just slap the wafer on. No worries about positioning and it is only really sticky right where you need it most - around the stoma.

Does that make sense? My wear time is 5-7 days. And my real problem was the breakdown of the wafer right at the stoma. The rest of the wafer sticks wonderfully for me, but the stoma output always caused a problem around the opening of the wafer, even when I was using paste. It takes a lot longer for the breakdown now with the Eakin Seal.

Let me know if I can help you -- I'll check back.
Peggy
      
Diagnosed with CD in 1979, many resections and meds
Perm Ileostomy July 1984 at Cleveland Clinic
Disease free since surgery 
 


summerstorm
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 6571
   Posted 4/11/2009 9:04 AM (GMT -6)   
i dont know about the eakin seals, i have these strips of things, called nuhope strips and a jar of something that i think may be eakin seals but i never tried them, cause my paste works and they confuse me too, lol!
I wouldnt use water though because if it works like the paste its just going to make it worse and make it sort of mushy like.
As for cutting the hole, you dont have to have it exaclty. Mine is usually a teeny tiny bit too small, and you also dont have to worry if it is the exact right shape for your stoma, your stoma will move out to fit it, sort of like if you pushed playdoh up through something. Does that make sense? Alot of times your stoma shrinks whne you stand up, at least mine does.
I see what you mean about getting perspective, but i guess since i have been doing it so long, i dont even really watch when i do it, i just slap it on and press it down, but if you could have someone help you watch as you guide it on for now that might help you get the hang of it!

YAY YAY YAY for 80 hours!!! I have been hoping you were getting some better wear time!

tkctwbd
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2007
Total Posts : 82
   Posted 4/11/2009 9:13 AM (GMT -6)   
Yes, Peggy and Summer, I feel like I have my life back. It is amazing, and I am so thankful. 80 hrs is like an eternity.

When this bag gives out ie leaks, I will try the hints you have given me. Nice to know I can just "slap it on" and press down. Think I need to relax. I will cut the seal to size that my paste was; and I think I will put the seal around the whole in appliance. I guess that is better. More later.

Thanks

summerstorm
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 6571
   Posted 4/11/2009 1:39 PM (GMT -6)   
You probably do need to relax about it honestly. When i first got mien, i was so freakign OCD it was crazy! I was checkign it every 2 minutes. And i would snap my bag on and off and on and off all the time. And i was paranoid about makign sure it got placed exactly right.
But the longer i had it the more i learned to trust that i was doing it right, adn i learned to trust my instincts and i know now that if i feel like i have done somethign wrong, i need to check ASAP, lol.
You will get like that too, i promise!

peggy113
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 1998
   Posted 4/11/2009 5:07 PM (GMT -6)   
Rely on what you have learned... you will do just fine with the practice you will get. Let us know how your next change goes and your wear time. Everyone has different wear time but I'd aim for the stars!!!
Peggy
      
Diagnosed with CD in 1979, many resections and meds
Perm Ileostomy July 1984 at Cleveland Clinic
Disease free since surgery 
 


Equestrian Mom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 3115
   Posted 4/12/2009 8:21 PM (GMT -6)   
I use the whole seal and apply it directly to the wafer opening (I actually have to make the seal a little smaller so it is right up to my stoma) then put it on my skin as 'one' piece. No skin prep and only powder when needed for me!!

Personally, since I have more liquid output, I like my opening as close to the stoma as possible...it tends to give me better wear time. I've had great success with close to a 6 day average...don't stress, you'll find the system that works best for you, soon:)

Finallycoping
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts : 16
   Posted 12/1/2012 12:41 PM (GMT -6)   
I know this is an old thread, but info is good for me, although I still am looking for tips from those of you who have been doing this longer then me.

For the first time, I used an Eakins slim wafer this morning when changing my flange. I didn't do it because of leaking, rather because I find it traumatic trying to cut my flange the exact right size and placing it over my stoma without the outter edges somehow sticking to my skin in an inappropriate place. Then I have to pull it off and start over. It takes me forever to change and then I am so stressed, I have to rest.

I was looking for a better way. I know this forum has a lot of veterans on it and you will have good tips.

I put the Eakins on and I cut the flange a little bigger, then I slipped it on. I didn't hurt my stoma and it feels really comfortable . Next time I will enlarge the flange a little more and I am hoping this will take away all of that stress. It was taking me about an hour to change. This time it only took 1/2 an hour. I know I should be able to do it better then that

Any suggestions
Janet
Life saving Ileostomy August 28,2012
Med consumption way reduced...thyroid,LASIK ,potassium , multi vitamin, Tylenol or Percacet for pain.
Just added Biotin 5000mcg to try to stop my horrible hair loss. Will keep you up-to-date on the hair progress.

Post Edited (Finallycoping) : 12/1/2012 11:51:56 AM (GMT-7)


bootstrap
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 583
   Posted 12/2/2012 2:53 AM (GMT -6)   
I am also a newbie, but I have gotten a lot faster lately. The eakins are fabulous, and I apply mine exactly as tkctwbd describes - pressing it in place around the stoma since I need to make sure to get as close and tight of a seal as possible, otherwise I have major ulceration issues. (My stoma is really wiggly and finicky.) I do sometimes wet my fingers to keep it from sticking to the fingers (otherwise as I press it in place, it sticks to my finger and comes up a bit), but have to be careful they're not too wet because if any water drips on/around the seal it will affect the adhesive.
Follow my story: ronnielee-fightingforit.blogspot.com

32-year-old single female (teacher)
Oct 2012 - Proctocolectomy, J-Pouch, loop ileostomy.
Take-down scheduled Dec 11th.

Dx mild/moderate UC 1995
Dx severe pancolitis 2011

Blueheron
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 720
   Posted 12/2/2012 7:40 AM (GMT -6)   
This post, which includes some photos, describes my method.

http://ostomyoutdoors.com/2012/10/30/ring-around-the-stoma-my-best-defense-against-leaks/

bootstrap
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 583
   Posted 12/2/2012 5:47 PM (GMT -6)   
Blueheron,

I dig your blog. Do you mind if I link to it on the "Other Blogs" section of mine?
Follow my story: ronnielee-fightingforit.blogspot.com

32-year-old single female (teacher)
Oct 2012 - Proctocolectomy, J-Pouch, loop ileostomy.
Take-down scheduled Dec 11th.

Dx mild/moderate UC 1995
Dx severe pancolitis 2011

ddd45
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 572
   Posted 12/3/2012 8:21 AM (GMT -6)   
janet.. you can get pre-cut wafers. Since you are over 3months after surgery your stoma size had most likely settled down. So just measure it once.. with the paper cut out thingy they give you and then order pre-cut wafers. You won't have to cut the hole every time you change then.

so when you change all you have to do is take the eakin seal, smash it up against the back of the wafer. push it a bit on the inside diameter of the hole in the wafer and then put that entire contraption on your body. It takes me less than 3 minutes to change. I think the key for you here is... get precut wafers!
good luck janet.

Blueheron
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 720
   Posted 12/3/2012 10:13 AM (GMT -6)   
Bootstrap- please do! Thanks!

Finallycoping
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts : 16
   Posted 12/6/2012 9:57 AM (GMT -6)   
Ddd45- thanks, my new question is ... do I have them precut a little larger to allow it to go over the Eakins seal?
Janet
Life saving Ileostomy August 28,2012
Med consumption way reduced...thyroid,LASIK ,potassium , multi vitamin, Tylenol or Percacet for pain.
Just added Biotin 5000mcg to try to stop my horrible hair loss. Will keep you up-to-date on the hair progress.

ddd45
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 572
   Posted 12/6/2012 4:07 PM (GMT -6)   
janet.. NO. you want to get the wafer the correct size for your stoma. There was another posting on here with someone else not doing that either and it was causing problems. So remeasure your stoma. you want one of the paper circle thingies that fits right over your stoma with the inside edge of the circle almost touching your stoma. That is the size you want. Order that pre-cut wafer.

Then you just take the eakin seal and put it on the back of the wafer. And let it do its thing to "swell" up a bit and give you a good seal.
let me know if you have further questions. I'm happy to help you get your changing process simplified so you feel better about things.

Finallycoping
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts : 16
   Posted 12/7/2012 6:04 AM (GMT -6)   
I have found that I approximately measure 1 1/8 long by 1 inch wide. When I put that on after cutting it, I sometimes felt like it was hurting me as I seem to have such a hard time positioning the wafer without touching the stoma. I have smoothed the edges with my fingers to try to avoid the uneven edge. Maybe I could get a stoma nurse to measure it for me.

I gotta also mention that I never felt like I was appropriately trained in putting on the wafer by myself. I am sure that plays right into the stress I feel when it comes time to change it. I only did it one time and the nurse was very hands on,I think I was taking too long.

There is an Ostomy support group in my area and they have 3 ostomy nurses so when I go to the meeting on the 12th, I am going to make an appointment with one of them.
Janet
Life saving Ileostomy August 28,2012
Med consumption way reduced...thyroid,LASIK ,potassium , multi vitamin, Tylenol or Percacet for pain.
Just added Biotin 5000mcg to try to stop my horrible hair loss. Will keep you up-to-date on the hair progress.

ddd45
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 572
   Posted 12/7/2012 9:36 AM (GMT -6)   
janet, yes great idea, get an ostomy nurse to remeasure your stoma for you. And if it not a solid circle so you can order precut wafers, then have her make you a template that you can use to cut out each wafer. Then you can cut out the wafers in advance. When I had an odd shaped stoma I would sit in front of the tv and cut out batches of wafers so they would be ready.
 
And you are correct. It is very helpful to have a nurse just sit there and watch you do the whole changing process yourself until you are comfortable. I was never allowed to leave a hospital until I could change everything myself, each time I got a new ileostomy.
 
good luck janet, you are making some progress.

Finallycoping
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts : 16
   Posted 12/7/2012 3:42 PM (GMT -6)   
Ddd45...thanks for all of your help. I did talk to liberator , which is where I get my supplies. He told me that I can measure and send him the measurement in cm and they will pre cut so that is a bonus.
So may I ask how many ileostomies you have had???

NASCARon...thanks for that tip! Had not thought about the moisture on my stoma. Do you use a glove to apply it so you don't touch the sides?
Janet
Life saving Ileostomy August 28,2012
Med consumption way reduced...thyroid,LASIK ,potassium , multi vitamin, Tylenol or Percacet for pain.
Just added Biotin 5000mcg to try to stop my horrible hair loss. Will keep you up-to-date on the hair progress.

Sunee
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts : 23
   Posted 12/9/2012 12:18 AM (GMT -6)   
tkctwbd said...


I am so compulsive about cutting hole the right size and it is hard to apply the bag over the stoma because I am looking at it lying down and it is hard to get perspective. Do you ever feel confident putting the bag over the stoma?

Any hints for beginner? ...Thanks


You will get more and more confident as time goes on. I would agree that it's really difficult to put on the pouch while lying down. What works for me is being in a sitting position (usually on the toilet lid) and I use a hand held mirror to guide my placement of the pouch.

80 hrs wear time? That's impressive! I'm lucky if I can get 48.
Diagnosed with IC -1997
Urostomy- 2000

ddd45
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 572
   Posted 12/9/2012 12:57 PM (GMT -6)   
janet I am on my fourth ileostomy. hopefully the last!
I have found it easier to change standing up in front of my bathroom sink. I never could manage successful change lying down.

Finallycoping
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts : 16
   Posted 12/9/2012 2:33 PM (GMT -6)   
May I ask what would cause someone to have 4 ileostomies? I thought once you had one, that was it!
Janet
Life saving Ileostomy August 28,2012 after 3 months of hospitalization, living on drugs & IV's. No food,lost 68 lbs.
Wound vac for almost 3 months. 3 days after surgeon released me, Huge abscess in belly scar where belly button used to be. HH nurse for 2 wks in A M to change & pack wound & wonderful husband does same at night. Dec. 11 bandage change once every other day for next 3 wks.

Post Edited (Finallycoping) : 12/11/2012 6:36:41 AM (GMT-7)


ddd45
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 572
   Posted 12/11/2012 1:31 PM (GMT -6)   
janet..
I had 3step jpouch procedure. So ileostomy #1 after step1 of jpouch, ileostomy #2 after step2 of jpouch. The jpouch failed. So ileostomy #3 to divert the jpouch. And the diversion failed.. still had lots of problems with the jpouch intact but disconnected... so ileostomy #4 after jpouch removal. hopefully #4 is the last!

I wouldn't recommend this route to anyone!!! Only positive thing out of all of it is I have tons of ostomy experience to share with others about appliances, figuring out leak prevention, living with ostomies, etc... As each ileo functioned differently!

Finallycoping
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts : 16
   Posted 12/12/2012 7:32 AM (GMT -6)   
Ddd45...my goodness ! Here is one of those times when I will say that no matter what I am going through with my situation, there are those who have gone through so much more. Thank you for sharing all of your experiences D. Because of where you have been, I am able to benefit.

The last time I put on my new wafer, I did stand up instead of sitting down. I am going to get a small mirror that I can move a little bit closer to me so I can get the bottom of the stoma positioned in the wafer better. I am still concerned about hurting the stoma if I get too close to it. I really like the Eakins seal. I have totally stopped worrying about a leak, and it is comfortable...I have never had a leak and I don't want one. nono
Janet
Life saving Ileostomy August 28,2012 after 3 months of hospitalization, living on drugs & IV's. No food,lost 68 lbs.
Wound vac for almost 3 months. 3 days after surgeon released me, Huge abscess in belly scar where belly button used to be. HH nurse for 2 wks in A M to change & pack wound & wonderful husband does same at night. Dec. 11 bandage change once every other day for next 3 wks.

ddd45
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 572
   Posted 12/12/2012 8:20 AM (GMT -6)   
great news janet.
another thought for you.. you really cannot hurt the stoma. Think of it like the inside of your mouth if you scrape it with a toothbrush. no big deal at all.
it it bleeds a bit, it doesn't mean anything. there are no nerves in it, so it won't feel anything.
congrats with all your progess.

Finallycoping
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts : 16
   Posted 12/12/2012 8:46 AM (GMT -6)   
D...that's a relief... However, I thought that I felt discomfort from my stoma before...it must have been a sensation from the immediate adjacent skin.

Tonight is the Christmas gathering for my local Ostomy group. It will be my first time attending and meeting others who are in my new club, Plus I am hoping at least 1 of the 3 stoma nurses will be there so I can arrange an appointment to watch me, measure me and give me first hand tips! Going to have my first glass of wine and will remember you as I toast my new life. wink
Janet
Life saving Ileostomy August 28,2012 after 3 months of hospitalization, living on drugs & IV's. No food,lost 68 lbs.
Wound vac for almost 3 months. 3 days after surgeon released me, Huge abscess in belly scar where belly button used to be. HH nurse for 2 wks in A M to change & pack wound & wonderful husband does same at night. Dec. 11 bandage change once every other day for next 3 wks.
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