Question on PSA score and Lupron

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Mitch1836
New Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 4
   Posted 7/14/2008 6:32 PM (GMT -6)   
I have a friend who was diagnosed with advanced prostate cancer with a PSA of 115 about 7 months ago. The doctor told him that it had also spread to his bones. The only treatment they said they could give him is Lupron.
 
When he was diagnosed his skin looked gray, he had no energy and honestly looked like he was ready to check out. Another friend of mine recommended he start drinking at least a gallon of ionized alkaline water a day and swears it has had great results with cancer. I won't get more into the reasons why here. Regardless, this friend started bringing him the water every so many days (he has a machine that makes this). He has been faithfully drinking a ton of that stuff.
 
All I know is a little over a week after he started on that water his skin color started changing back to pink and he just started looking better (I will admit that did occur before he got his first Lupron shot). In the last 6 months I have seen this guy go from death to looking and feeling really good. His energy level has increased dramatically and he says he no longer has pain in his bones. The man looks pretty darn healthy right now.
 
He just got his PSA tested a couple of weeks ago and his PSA was 0.37. In the last 6 months he has received 2 Lupron shots. What I want to know is, are the shots the real reason his PSA score went down from 115 to 0.37, and also the real reason behind everything else I mentioned? Obviously my friend thinks it's due to the water.
 
Does anyone here have experience with Lupron and seen the same type of great results I mentioned?
 

Jayadub
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 89
   Posted 7/14/2008 6:58 PM (GMT -6)   
Mitch1836 said...
 
He just got his PSA tested a couple of weeks ago and his PSA was 0.37. In the last 6 months he has received 2 Lupron shots. What I want to know is, are the shots the real reason his PSA score went down from 115 to 0.37, and also the real reason behind everything else I mentioned? Obviously my friend thinks it's due to the water.
 
Does anyone here have experience with Lupron and seen the same type of great results I mentioned?
 
It is the Lupron that has reduced the PSA. As to the ionized water I will just say click the link I have provided.
 
http://www.chem1.com/CQ/ionbunk.html

54 years old

PSA 5.6 on 3/20/07

DRE: Negative

Biopsy on 4/20/07 

Results 4/25/07:

3 out of 12 cores positive, 2 on the right lobe with 5% adenocarcinoma Gleason 3+3, 1 on the left lobe 10% adenocarcinoma Gleason 3+4, overall Gleason graded 7 Cancer T1C.  After web research discovered Proton Beam Therapy and called Loma Linda. Completed consultation with Dr. Luu on 7/5/2007 and started treatment at Loma Linda on 7/26/07. Completed treatment 44 on 9/28/07. 0 treatments remain. Side Effects remain minimal. 1st PSA result on January 28th is 1.1.


don826
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 759
   Posted 7/14/2008 7:57 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Mitch,
I am on Lupron now and have started radiation treatment. As far as skin tone and color I have noticed that my complexion is as good as when I was 10 years old. No oiliness or acne at all. I have also noticed that I only need to shave about once every three days. There are other effects as well but not pertinent to your question. I suspect that your friends improvement is due to the Lupron.

Jayadub,
Great web site in your link.

Don
Diagnosed 04/10/08
Age 58
PSA 21.5 (first and only test resulted from follow up visit to emergency room for kidney stone. first time for kidney stone too)
Gleason 4 + 3
DRE palpable tumor on left side
100% of 12 cores positive for PCa range 35% to 85%
Bone scan clear
Chest x ray clear
CT scan shows potential lymph node involvement in pelvic region
Started Casodex on May 2 and stopped on June 1, 2008
Lupron injection on May 15 and every four months for next two years
Starting IMRT/IGRT on July 7, 2008. 45 treatments scheduled
 
 


dutchy
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 75
   Posted 7/14/2008 8:18 PM (GMT -6)   
It's the Lupron, not the water. Hope your friend won't be tempted to discontinue the hormone treatment too quickly. Cheers, Dutchy
Dutchy's husband
Diagnosis: 7/6: PSA 1,946, multiple bone metastases in thoracic, lumbar spine, pelvis, bilateral ribs and proximal left tibia, 2 weeks Casodex (50 mg)

Treatment: 3 monthly Lupron injection (22.5 mg) + Zometa (4 mg IV). Added daily Casodex (50 mg) in September 2007.

25/06: PSA 407
20/08: PSA 3,7
29/09: PSA 0.7
14/10: PSA 0.17
18/12: PSA < 0.003
15/03: PSA <0.003
15/05: PSA <0.003

May 2008: diagnosed with advanced colon cancer


Mitch1836
New Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 4
   Posted 7/14/2008 9:33 PM (GMT -6)   
Jayadub said...
Mitch1836 said...
 
He just got his PSA tested a couple of weeks ago and his PSA was 0.37. In the last 6 months he has received 2 Lupron shots. What I want to know is, are the shots the real reason his PSA score went down from 115 to 0.37, and also the real reason behind everything else I mentioned? Obviously my friend thinks it's due to the water.
 
Does anyone here have experience with Lupron and seen the same type of great results I mentioned?
 
It is the Lupron that has reduced the PSA. As to the ionized water I will just say click the link I have provided.
 
Thanks for the link. I did read all of that information a couple of months ago. That chemist kinda lost his credibilty with me because he makes some innacurate claims that can prove he is wrong with a simple home tester. My other friend demonstrated that. He also admits he never personally tested the water from any of those machines.
 
I have done a bit of research on alkaline water, I even found one article tearing chem1.com apart so it's hard to know who to believe. I am sure there are some positive health benefits.
 
HOWEVER, I am real curious and concerned at this point with my friend and not here claiming the water is helping him. I have no idea if it is. That is why I wanted to know other experiences with Lupron because that is all he is getting.
 
So if the cancer is now in his bones, etc. why isn't he getting any other treatment? His doctor told him Lupron doesn't cure or kill cancer and was only going to treat his symptoms. Have they written him off? Also, if the Lupron doesn't kill cancer cells how does it make the PSA score come down so dramatically? We are talking 115 to 0.37. Isn't that a huge difference? If so is that normal with Lupron?
 
BTW, thanks for all the answers and support guys.

Jayadub
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 89
   Posted 7/14/2008 10:15 PM (GMT -6)   
Mitch1836 said...
Jayadub said...
Mitch1836 said...
 
He just got his PSA tested a couple of weeks ago and his PSA was 0.37. In the last 6 months he has received 2 Lupron shots. What I want to know is, are the shots the real reason his PSA score went down from 115 to 0.37, and also the real reason behind everything else I mentioned? Obviously my friend thinks it's due to the water.
 
Does anyone here have experience with Lupron and seen the same type of great results I mentioned?
 
It is the Lupron that has reduced the PSA. As to the ionized water I will just say click the link I have provided.
 
 
So if the cancer is now in his bones, etc. why isn't he getting any other treatment? His doctor told him Lupron doesn't cure or kill cancer and was only going to treat his symptoms. Have they written him off? Also, if the Lupron doesn't kill cancer cells how does it make the PSA score come down so dramatically? We are talking 115 to 0.37. Isn't that a huge difference? If so is that normal with Lupron?
 
BTW, thanks for all the answers and support guys.
Because there is nothing else to be done once it has metastisized. There are others here who can speak with more experience than I can, but the dramatic decrease in PSA means it is working as it is intended and may do so for a long time. The problems come when the cancer becomes resistant to the Lupron.
 
As far as the water thing, I will only say that I have no knowledge of the website or the person who posted the info on that page. A simple Google search brought that page to the top of the search page. A simple Google search on "alkaline water" again brings that page to the top. The only proponents of alkaline water that a Google search reveals are those who are selling the machines to ionize the water. There are no scientific references, there are no study references, there are no medical practioners who are promoting this. Only the people who make the machines or market the water. I'm done.

Mitch1836
New Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 4
   Posted 7/14/2008 10:56 PM (GMT -6)   
Jayadub said...
Mitch1836 said...
Jayadub said...
Mitch1836 said...
 
He just got his PSA tested a couple of weeks ago and his PSA was 0.37. In the last 6 months he has received 2 Lupron shots. What I want to know is, are the shots the real reason his PSA score went down from 115 to 0.37, and also the real reason behind everything else I mentioned? Obviously my friend thinks it's due to the water.
 
Does anyone here have experience with Lupron and seen the same type of great results I mentioned?
 
It is the Lupron that has reduced the PSA. As to the ionized water I will just say click the link I have provided.
 
 
So if the cancer is now in his bones, etc. why isn't he getting any other treatment? His doctor told him Lupron doesn't cure or kill cancer and was only going to treat his symptoms. Have they written him off? Also, if the Lupron doesn't kill cancer cells how does it make the PSA score come down so dramatically? We are talking 115 to 0.37. Isn't that a huge difference? If so is that normal with Lupron?
 
BTW, thanks for all the answers and support guys.
Because there is nothing else to be done once it has metastisized. There are others here who can speak with more experience than I can, but the dramatic decrease in PSA means it is working as it is intended and may do so for a long time. The problems come when the cancer becomes resistant to the Lupron.
 
As far as the water thing, I will only say that I have no knowledge of the website or the person who posted the info on that page. A simple Google search brought that page to the top of the search page. A simple Google search on "alkaline water" again brings that page to the top. The only proponents of alkaline water that a Google search reveals are those who are selling the machines to ionize the water. There are no scientific references, there are no study references, there are no medical practioners who are promoting this. Only the people who make the machines or market the water. I'm done.
Thanks Jayadub. I appreciate the response and it has been real helpful.

livinadream
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 1382
   Posted 7/15/2008 5:21 AM (GMT -6)   
to keep it simple Lupron which I to am on is a testosterone ablation drug, PC fuels off the production of testosterone in the body and when that is cut out the PSA drops as does the spread of cancer, when the the cancer becomes resistant to hormone therapy it returns and begins to metastisize again. Sad to say I was confronted by someone selling machines to ionize water, it is amazing how the vultures circle when they find out some bad news (well good for them). Drinking water is healthy as anyone knows, and if the placebo effect causes your friend to feel better so be it, in my diligent research I could not substantiate anything that would make me believe it was any better or worse than regular drinking water. I hope there is no hidden agenda here, we are all people searching for hope and happiness and have to be careful of folks intentions.
I hope your friend has many years of great health

peace and love
Dale
My PSA at diagnosis was 16.3
age 46 (current)
My gleason score from prostate was 4+5=9 and from the lymph nodes was 4+4=8
I had 44 IMRT's
Casodex
Currently on Lupron
I go to The Cancer Treatment Center of America
Married with two kids
latest PSA 5-27-08 0.11
cancer in 4 of 6 cores
92%
80%
37%
28%
 


Mitch1836
New Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 4
   Posted 7/15/2008 11:09 AM (GMT -6)   
livinadream said...
to keep it simple Lupron which I to am on is a testosterone ablation drug, PC fuels off the production of testosterone in the body and when that is cut out the PSA drops as does the spread of cancer, when the the cancer becomes resistant to hormone therapy it returns and begins to metastisize again. Sad to say I was confronted by someone selling machines to ionize water, it is amazing how the vultures circle when they find out some bad news (well good for them). Drinking water is healthy as anyone knows, and if the placebo effect causes your friend to feel better so be it, in my diligent research I could not substantiate anything that would make me believe it was any better or worse than regular drinking water. I hope there is no hidden agenda here, we are all people searching for hope and happiness and have to be careful of folks intentions.
I hope your friend has many years of great health

peace and love
Dale

Thanks livinadream, that makes it more clear to me now. Believe me, my "water" friend might be a little overbearing but he is not a vulture. Also he isn't trying to sell the machines, he has one himself and is convinced it works. Because of that he has been bringing my other friend (the one with PC) 5 gallons of water each week. I am really a 3rd party to all of this and am fishing for real answers because I don't want my friend to be going around telling everyone else that his water is making my other friend better if that is not factual.
 
He (as was myself) were of the misunderstanding that Lupron wouldn't lower the PSA numbers. Obviously if that were true you would have to credit the water because he was doing nothing else. However thanks to you guys I have just found out that Lupron does lower the PSA numbers. So in my mind you have to credit the Lupron for his numbers falling, not the water.
 
So now I am more informed and can relay what I have learned here to both of my friends and everyone else we know that are familiar with this whole thing. Again I appreciate all of the information and wish all of you better health in the near future.

taiping
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 62
   Posted 7/15/2008 11:22 PM (GMT -6)   
I recently acquired a used ionizing water machine for free, brand name RadiRedWater (Japanese).
I connected the machine to the tap water through a water filter (the RadiRedWater also has an internal filter) and measured the pH of the processed water.
pH of input water = <6.8 (slightly acidic).
pH of processed water = >8.2 (alkaline).
So the machine does indeed change the water pH.
By the way, the pH of local bottled water = 7.7 (slightly alkaline).
Whether drinking alkaline water has any effect on PCa is another question. I am not qualified to discuss the chemical and biological arguements one way or t'other. However, personally I don't think that standard medicine has the answer as well, so I don't mind trying alternative remedies.
 
Steve
 
Diagnosed: June 2007. Aged 61. PSA 19.6. DRE negative.
Biopsy: June 2007; 2 cores of 18 positive.
MRI and Bone Scan: Negative.
Pathology: 5% of 1 core, "Small focus" in another core +ve.
Gleason 3 + 3 = 6.
Clinical: PCa considered confined to prostate. Stage T1c.
Treatment: After considering RP and HD Brachy, decided on Intermittent Triple Androgen Blockade Therapy for 1-year, using ZOLADEX, CASODEX 150 mg/day, AVODART 0.5 mg/day. Start PSA 19.2 (July 2007).
Current Status: PSA 0.018 (June 2008) - PSA nadir.
---------------

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