curcumin and resveratrol

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medved
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Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 962
   Posted 12/12/2009 6:27 PM (GMT -6)   
Have any of you seen research regarding effects of curcumin or resveratrol in preventing prostate cancer or slowing its growth?   It has been recommended to me to take these supplements to prevent (reduce risk of) prostate cancer.   I have some concern (though at this point no basis for it) that these -- particularly resveratrol -- might reduce psa and therefore potentially mask prostate cancer.   Any basis for my concern?  Anyone taking these supplements? 
Age 45.  Father died of p ca. 
My psa starting age 40: 1.4, 1.3, 1.43, 1.74, 1.7, 1.5
 


Ziggy9
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 899
   Posted 12/12/2009 6:39 PM (GMT -6)   
Ah the search for those magical supplements continue. I think curcumin has popped up a few times as having anti cancer properties but like so many others it seems it have been disproved although anectodal evidence continues. I didn't at first recognize resveratrol until I looked it up. It's that old red wine supplement thats been around for awhile and rumored as a good antioxidant for the heart little seems to indicate it does and good against cancers. Who recommended these to you? They are probably harmless and the only likely damage they can cause will be to your wallet.
Diagnosed 11/08/07 - Age: 58 - 3 of 12 @5%
Psa: 2.3 - 3+3=6 - Size: 34g -T-2-A
 
2/22/08 - 3D Mapping Saturation Biopsy - 1 of 45 @2% - Psa:2.1 - 3+3=6 - 28g after taking Avodart - Catheter for 1 day -Good Candidate for TFT(Targeted Focal Therapy) Cryosurgery(Ice Balls) - Clinical Research Study
 
4/22/08 - TFT performed at University of Colorado Medical Center - Catheter for 4 days - Slight soreness for 2 weeks but afterward life returns as normal
 
7/30/08 - Psa: .32
11/10/08 - Psa.62 - Not unexpected bounce after the 80% drop the quarter earlier. Along with urine flow readings, an acceptable amount left in bladder measured by sonic. Results warrant skipping third quarter tests, and to return April, 2009 for final biopsy scheduled to
complete clinical research study 
 
April 2009 12 of 12 Negative biopsy
10/12/09 - Psa .30
 
 
 


Opa N
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 150
   Posted 12/12/2009 7:01 PM (GMT -6)   
I read about resveratrol in a piece in Wine Spectator magazine a few months back.Since I already enjoy red wine very much, I appreciate having yet another excuse, er, reason, to have a glass of red wine. In fact, I am enjoying some Spanish resveratrol right now.
Roger

 Age 67 at diagnosis. Treated for coronary artery disease (CAD) since 1998, and under control with medications.

2/6/09              Routine physical, with DRE and PSA Test. PSA 4.02. Referred to Uro

4/20/09            TRUS  w/needle biopsy

4/23/09            Diagnosis PCa with Gleason 4+3 in 2/2 cores, Gleason 3+3 in 5/10 cores.

                        CT scan and Bone Scan both negative. Stage T2C.

8/27/09            DaVinci RP at WakeMed Cary NC with Dr. Tortora. Discharged 8/28.

9/8/09              Catheder removed. Path post-surgery confirms PCa, with Gleason 3+3 with scattering of 4. Positive margins in L & R posterior, R and L seminal vesicles, with perineural invasion.  Stage pT3b.

9/30/09            PSA Post-Op <0.01. Met w/Uro/Surgeon to review surgery and path report. Referred to Prostate Oncologist and Radiation Oncologist. Appointments set for 10/8.

10/8/09            Met w/ both oncologists. Adjuvant Combination Therapy to begin ASAP.

10/21/09          First Lupron injection. 30 mg dose (4 month)

11/2/09            PSA 2-month <0.01. Cystoscope w/calibration and dilation to remove scar tissue from urethra. Big relief.

 

Initial incontinence pretty bad, starting w/6 Depends pants/day. Gradually getting better, with dramatic reduction in leakage around 9/20. Currently on 1 pad during the day and one at night (for security). Actually totally dry at night.

 

 

 


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 24007
   Posted 12/12/2009 7:02 PM (GMT -6)   
The ones you named, were among a long list that my Radiation Oncologist and I talked about, perhaps 6 weeks ago. She is of the school that none of them (the entire list) will do any good at preventing or slowing down PC. She does worry about supplements that on the surface seem to lower a PSA reading, she feels strongly that they are indeed masking the true situation, and giving false hope to someone that may already have PC.
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incontinence:  1 Month     ED:  Non issue at any point post surgery
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Latest: 7/9 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/9 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 out  38 days, 9/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl., mapped  9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - began IMRT SRT - 39 sess/72 gys ,cath #8 33 days, Cath #9 in 35 days, 12/7/9 - Cath #10 in place


Jakester
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 265
   Posted 12/12/2009 7:57 PM (GMT -6)   
The radiation oncologist that I saw last Wednesday reviewed the list of supplements I take which include curcumin, and resveratrol. His only comment was "probably won't hurt" but he did recommend that I include 2000 IU of D3 per day. He takes 4000 IU of D3 per day himself. His reasoning was our latitude in Northern California didn't provide enough sun exposure for our bodies to make enough D3 daily. I believe he said D3 deficiencies have been found in some cancer patient studies. I think there was an earlier thread mentioning the same.

Take care,
Jake
Diagnosed 8/2008 Pre-op psa 4.2, Age 60 at dx
7 of 12 biopsies positive 3+3
DaVinci LRP 11/08
Post Op pathology clear margins, confined to prostate, absent extraprostatic extension, vascular or perineural. Gleason 3+4=7, 5-10% of 4 and location in right mid-gland.
3 month psa .1 2/09, 6 month .1 5/09, 9 month .2 8/09
broke ankle bones 6/09
9/21/09 Bone scan clear, psa still .2
11/12/09 chest xray was clear, psa however up to .3,
radiation setup scheduled 01/05/10, 35 sessions follow


Sonny3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 2122
   Posted 12/12/2009 8:20 PM (GMT -6)   
I can't speak directly to curcumin and prostate cancer, but my wife takes it for her Multiple Myeloma.

Granted she has had more than her fair share of medical issues lately but her MM numbers have been considerably down for the last 2-3 years. She started taking it after a discussion with her MM/Stem Cell Transplant Dr. at MDA in Houston. His Aunt also has MM and takes it and he gives it credit with helping her keep her MM under control. It may be one of those "can't hurt" things, but with MM their has been a fair amount of research speaking to it's benefit.

As to the D3, I am also taking 2-3000 units per day and my RO said that was the only supplement that he felt may help me in my battles.

For what it's worth and IMHO,

Sonny

logoslidat
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 2676
   Posted 5/11/2011 1:05 AM (GMT -6)   
Purgatory What was the basis for her, RO, thinking that supplements mask psa. I have never heard that one before. Was it just a strong feeling, hunch or something in her medical training. So she does feel that supplements reduce psa, but with that reservation? I always thought the worse that could happen is expensive urine.
Diagnosed 8/14/09 psa 8.1 66,now 67
2cores 70%, rest 6-7 < 5%
gleason 3+ 3, up to 3+4 @ the dub
RPP U of Wash, Bruce Dalkin,
pathology 4+3, tertiary5, 2 foci
extensive pni, prostate confined,27 nodes removed -, svi - margins -
99%continent@ cath removal. 1% incont@gaspass,sneeze,cough 18 mos, squirt @ running. psa std test reported on paper as 0.0 as of 12/14/10 ed improving

proscapt
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 541
   Posted 5/11/2011 2:08 AM (GMT -6)   
Rather than take curcimin I put a 1/2 tsp of turmeric in my tomato juice, and then about two squirts of worcestershire sauce. Mix it up, and it tastes like spicy V8 or like a version of bloody mary mix that's not quite so spicy and salty. I have come to like it as part of my daily routine! It gives my both lycopene and curcumin in one drink, and I think it's generally better to consume the real food product rather than an extract - since no one really knows if the extract retains all its important properties.
"If the tool in your hand is a hammer, then every problem looks like a nail."

DX age 54 12/2009
PSA 5.6, DRE-, high pre-op PSAV. Clinical stage T1c
Biopsy: Gleason 3+4 with PNI / 6 of 14 cores + / 10% of total length + / worst 45% +
DaVinci RP 2/2010
pT2cNx / Gleason 3+4 / PNI+ / SM- / SV- / EPE- / Tumor vol 3cc / vol 40cc / 63 gm
PSA in 2010: <0.01, 0.01, 0.01
PSA in 2011: 0.01

BB_Fan
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 977
   Posted 5/11/2011 6:15 AM (GMT -6)   
I take both curcummin and revesterol. Both are recommended by Dr Myer. He has web casts were he discusses why he recommends each. I cannot find the link to them. Perhaps someone esle can provide it.
Dx PCa Dec 2008 at 56, PSA 3.4
Biopsy: T1c, Geason 7 (3+4) - 8 cores, 4 positive, 30% of all 4 cores.
Robotic RP March 2009
Pathology Report: T2c, Geason 8, organ confined, negitive margins, lymph nodes - tumor volume 9%, nerves spared, no negitive side effects.
PSA's < .01, .01, .07, .28, .50. ADT 3 5/10. IMRT 7/10.
PSA's post HT .01, < .01

robertC
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2011
Total Posts : 937
   Posted 5/11/2011 7:44 AM (GMT -6)   
I used to take turmeric aka curcumin but it seemed to irritate my chronic gall bladder condition. It is supposed to work on COX-2 inflammation area. Its also supposed to interfere with Vascular Endothelial Growth Factor (VEGF) to some extent,probably small. The American Cancer Society has this to say about curcumin:

What is the evidence?
Curcumin, an active ingredient in turmeric, is an antioxidant. Antioxidants are compounds that can protect the body’s cells from damage caused by activated oxygen molecules known as free radicals. Laboratory studies have also shown that curcumin interferes with several important molecular pathways involved in cancer development, growth, and spread.

Recently, curcumin has received a great deal more attention in studies than turmeric as a whole herb. Researchers are studying curcumin to learn whether it is an effective anti-inflammatory agent and whether it holds any promise for cancer prevention or treatment. A number of studies of curcumin have shown promising results. Curcumin can kill cancer cells in laboratory dishes and also reduces growth of surviving cells. Curcumin also has been found to reduce development of several forms of cancer in laboratory animals and to shrink animal tumors.

Human studies of curcumin in cancer prevention and treatment are in the very early stages. One study of 15 patients with colorectal cancer was done to find out how much curcumin they could safely take, and whether they could take a dose large enough to be detected in the blood. The patients were able to take 3.6 grams of curcumin without noting ill effects. At this high dose, some curcumin and its products were found in the blood. Lower doses may work for the stomach and intestine. Even though it does not absorb well into the body, it has been shown to absorb into the colon lining and into any cancerous tissue in the colon. The researchers recommended that the high dose be used when curcumin is tested for effects outside the intestine. Other small studies have found people were able to take up to 10 grams per day for a period of a few weeks without noting problems. Some researchers are currently working on ways to increase absorption of curcumin by combining it with other substances. Further clinical trials are needed to find out what role, if any, turmeric and curcumin may play in the prevention or treatment of cancer.

Curcumin may also promote the emptying of the gallbladder, but again, more studies are needed.
Early research has suggested that curcumin may help lower "bad" cholesterol, reduce inflammation, and help with arthritis symptoms, although more reliable human studies are still needed.

Although laboratory and animal tests look very promising, careful study is needed to find out whether curcumin will be useful for treating these conditions in humans. It is important to remember that extracted compounds such as curcumin are not the same as the whole herb, and study results would not be likely to show the same effects.

Post Edited (robertcool) : 5/11/2011 6:47:38 AM (GMT-6)


tarhoosier
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2010
Total Posts : 339
   Posted 5/11/2011 8:44 AM (GMT -6)   
Medved:
I think there are numerous confounding issues involved with your question. You seem to ask if there is proof that curcumin and resveratrol will prevent cancer. Prostate cancer specifically. There is no proof of that. Next you may be wondering if there is any proof that these two substances slow the growth of PCa? Here again there is no proof. What exists are evidence and anecdotal reports from PCa patients that are below the level of scientific proof, but the safety profile of each is benign thus the risk is near zero. For doctors and oncologists who are willing to suggest various approaches with high level of safety and the chance of a psa response at very low cost, compared to branded drugs, then the two you mentioned are reasonable approaches for men with currently diagnosed PCa.
Their use as a preventative is even less supported. If you choose to experiment with them and follow your psa as a guide, please report your experience.

robertC
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2011
Total Posts : 937
   Posted 2/10/2012 12:35 PM (GMT -6)   
[An article about curcumin and a form of prostate cancer. It seems to be a test tube and mouse study.]

Curry spice component may help slow prostate tumor growth
February 10th, 2012 in Cancer

A team led by Karen Knudsen, Ph.D., a professor of cancer biology, urology and radiation oncology at Thomas Jefferson University, found that curcumin, an active component of the Indian curry spice turmeric, may help slow down tumor growth in castration-resistant prostate cancer patients on androgen deprivation therapy. Credit: TJUH
Curcumin, an active component of the Indian curry spice turmeric, may help slow down tumor growth in castration-resistant prostate cancer patients on androgen deprivation therapy (ADT), a study from researchers at Jefferson's Kimmel Cancer Center suggests.
Reporting in a recent issue of Cancer Research, Karen Knudsen, Ph.D., a Professor of Cancer Biology, Urology and Radiation Oncology at Thomas Jefferson University, and colleagues observed in a pre-clinical study that curcumin suppresses two known nuclear receptor activators, p300 and CPB (or CREB1-binding protein), which have been shown to work against ADT.
ADT aims to inhibit the androgen receptor—an important male hormone in the development and progression of prostate cancer—in patients. But a major mechanism of therapeutic failure and progression to advanced disease is inappropriate reactivation of this receptor. Sophisticated tumor cells, with the help of p300 and CPB, sometimes bypass the therapy.
Thus, development of novel targets that act in concert with the therapy would be of benefit to patients with castration-resistant prostate cancer.
For the study, prostate cancer cells were subjected to hormone deprivation in the presence and absence of curcumin with "physiologically attainable' doses. (Previous studies, which found similar results, included doses that were not realistic.)
Curcumin augments the results of ADT, and reduced cell number compared to ADT alone, the researchers found. Moreover, the spice was found to be a potent inhibitor of both cell cycle and survival in prostate cancer cells.
To help support their findings, the researchers also investigated curcumin in mice, which were castrated to mimic ADT. They were randomized into two cohorts: curcumin and control. Tumor growth and mass were significantly reduced in the mice with curcumin, the researchers report.
These data demonstrate for the first time that curcumin not only hampers the transition of ADT-sensitive disease to castration-resistance, but is also effective in blocking the growth of established castrate-resistant prostate tumors.
"This study sets the stage for further development of curcumin as a novel agent to target androgen receptor signaling," said Dr. Knudsen. "It also has implications beyond prostate cancer since p300 and CBP are important in other malignancies, like breast cancer. In tumors where these play an important function, curcumin may prove to be a promising therapeutic agent."
Provided by Thomas Jefferson University
"Curry spice component may help slow prostate tumor growth." February 10th, 2012. http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-02-curry-spice-component-prostate-tumor.html
Gleason (3+4) 7, PSA 5 in November 2011 age 63
cryoablation in January 2011.
April 29 2011 psa undetectable.
January 2012 psa .05 detectable

John T
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 3656
   Posted 2/10/2012 1:15 PM (GMT -6)   
Don't have any idea on the value of these supplements, but I hear a lot about some supplements "masking psa". Psa is only created by benign prostate tissue at at rate of 0.66 per cc of benign tissue and by a prostate cancer. The mathematical relationship of psa to the size of a tumor and its gleason grade has been well established and follows a mathamatical relationship, see Strum's "Primer on Prostate Cancer". Any reduction in psa is due to the reduction or benign prostate tissue or reduction in tumor volume or reduction in infection. These have been verified by scans measuring the tumor size. There is no medication or supplement that reduces psa that does not either reduce prostate size, finisteride, Adovart, or reduce tumor size, HT or other chemos. These do not mask psa but reflects changes in the cause of psa, PC tumors or benign prostate tissue. I know of nothing that will just affect psa without affecting one of the above, so anyone one that says a certain med will mask psa then I would like to see some evidence. In rare cases a high gleason varient may still grow without producing psa, but these are rare. So basically if something is reducing psa it is either shrinking the amount of benign prostate tissue or reducing the size of the tumor and there is no masking.
JohnT
66 years old, rising psa for 10 years from 4 to 40; 12 biopsies and MRIS all negative. Oct 2009 DXed with G6 <5%. Color Doppler biopsy found 2.5 cm G4+3. Combidex clear. Seeds and IMRT, 4 weeks of urinary frequency and urgency; no side affects since then. 2 years of psa's all at 0.1.

anfidelmar
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2011
Total Posts : 103
   Posted 2/10/2012 6:04 PM (GMT -6)   
This reminds me of when my Wife was having treatment for breast cancer in 2004/5. At one of the consultations with her oncologist the subject of supplements came up. She was telling him what she was taking, herbal tea, accupuncture and some vitamin tablets etc.
His answer simply was, "Amanda, I'm sure all of those things are doing you no harm, carry on taking them, BUT if there was anything miraculous and cancer beating more than we already have out there, rest assured we will be the first to hear about it". She had her 5 year clearance in 2010 by the way. :-)

Chris.
RRP 15 Dec 2010, PSA pre surgery 3.7
Post surgery 0.07 - 0.27 - 0.57

Extensive involvement both sides of apex. Gleason 3+4
Perineural and extensive involvement of the apical margin.Capsule not present. Prostate shows high grade PIN. Lymphovascular , seminal vesicle involvement not seen.
Biopsies - Acinar adenocarcinoma gleason score 7 in left apex only.

33 SRT ended 7-2-12

F8
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3211
   Posted 2/10/2012 7:33 PM (GMT -6)   
I know a couple of the top PC oncologists recommend turmeric. That's what I take as well as a few others. Of course you can hear whatever you want these days. My rad Inc says he believes in a very small number of cases pomegranate can prevent cancer. Too late for that for me but I still do several supplements a day.

ed
age: 56
PSA on 12/09: 6.8
gleason 3+4 = 7
HT, BT and IGRT
received 3rd and last lupron shot 9/14/10
2/8/11 PSA <.1, T= 6 ng/dl
6/8/11 PSA .2, T = 540 ng/dl
8/19/11 PSA .3, T = 487 ng/dl
10/5/11 PSA .2, T = 530 ng/dl

Post Edited (F8) : 2/10/2012 6:35:13 PM (GMT-7)


Dreamerboy
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2011
Total Posts : 360
   Posted 2/11/2012 9:37 AM (GMT -6)   
Both turmeric and resveratrol can be purchased inexpensively in their natural form - so what do you have to lose? I take about a half teaspoon of turmeric with a little black pepper (apparently increases the effectiveness)and with lemon juice every morning and I get my resveratrol through grapes and a glass or 2 of red wine. I've never read any reports of these ingredients masking prostate cancer. Populations that consume a lot of turmeric, such as East Indians and Saudis, have some of the lowest levels of prostate cancer in the world. The Mediterranean diet includes red wine and these populations, particularly the Greeks, also have low prostate cancer rates. Since I would happily drink the red wine anyway the worst that can probably happen is that I'm squandering a few cents worth of turmeric. The best that can happen is that it actually has a positive affect on my cancer. Seems like a pretty good trade-off to me.
PSA: 7.4 at time of diagnosis. Latest PSA 5.68
Biopsy: July 4, 2011 @ age 52 -2 samples out of 12 positive, Gleason 6(3+3), both 30%
T1c
No treatment yet; following Ornish-style diet until a decision is made.

Post Edited (Dreamerboy) : 2/11/2012 7:48:56 AM (GMT-7)


SpecialLady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2011
Total Posts : 858
   Posted 2/11/2012 10:25 AM (GMT -6)   
What is interesting that Dr.Myers in his book "Hormonal therapy and diet" recommends against curcumin and resveratrol, however in the meantime he has changed his opinion (the book was written in 2007). I can only imagine that new research became available that changed his mind. On the other hand, in that book, he recommends vitamin E, however now because of the results of the SELECT study, he has reversed his opinion on that. My father takes resveratrol and curcumin, but one always needs to be aware that what works in the lab may be later proven not to have any effect in a population study. Curcumin is very safe, and resveratrol, has somewhat similar blood-thinning potential like aspirin, so I would be careful with resveratrol before surgery and similar.
Father (69 now) diagnosed with PCs in Jan 2011: PSA 7.5, Gleason 3+3, two inconclusive bone-scintigraphies, MR scan showed 2 bone mets. Started hormonal therapy (Trelstar+Casodex) in Jan 2011. Added Zometa in January 2012.

Jerry L.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 2349
   Posted 2/11/2012 1:58 PM (GMT -6)   
Dr. Myers suggested I take both and have been taking these since my appointment with him. He was very specific on where I should buy them, dosage, and when to take them. He provided me reference material on each. I will see if I can scan them in or summarize for all.

He thought them to be rather important.
11/09 Dx at Age 44
12/09 DaVinci Surgery
1/10 T3b, G9
2/10 Adj. Radiation
3/11 PSA Rise/Scans/Spot on Pelvic Bone
4/11 HT / XGEVA
5/11 Spot Radiation
12/11 Scans - No new spots; spot is less intense / decrease in uptake

PSA History:
-----------------
'05 - .75
11/09 4.3 - 4.8
2010 <.05 (after surg&adj rad)
3/11 .09
4/11 .06
10/11 <.05
11/11 <.01
12/11 <.01

mr bill
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 476
   Posted 2/12/2012 8:30 AM (GMT -6)   
medved,
 
You may want to check out my post today titled "Curcumin."
 
Mr. Bill

medved
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 962
   Posted 2/13/2012 11:57 AM (GMT -6)   
Jerry -  I would be interested in hearing what Dr. Meyers suggested regarding what circumim and resveretrol to buy, and how much to take?  Thanks!

Jerry L.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 2349
   Posted 2/13/2012 1:59 PM (GMT -6)   
Medved,
 
As requested:
 

- Super Biocurcumin, 400 mg, two per day at bedtime
from: www.lef.org

- Resveratrol X500 (or Nitro MX, or Nitro 250) daily at bedtime
from: www.revgentics.com

I'm taking other supplements, but this is what I am currently taking for Curcumin and Resveratrol.

Post Edited (Jerry L.) : 2/13/2012 12:09:29 PM (GMT-7)

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