Operation Scars Keloids

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English Alf
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Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 2087
   Posted 2/16/2010 3:05 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi

Has anyone else had or is having trouble with their scars?

I'm just over six months after surgery.

My five little wounds are okay, though very dark red. The big scar above my navel however is going a bit keloid: it's starting to look like I've got a dark red worm on my belly.

I'm massaging a prescription silicon gel on it, but it still stings or itches most of the time, and the muscles about an inch inside me to the left and right of the scar also ache a lot.

(I am clearly someone that this can happen to. A small scar on my chest left by the removal of a mole a year ago still stings and itches and has gone lumpy despite having originally being almost invisible after being done by a plastic surgeon, a scar on my back from another mole removal took over 18 months to stop stinging.)

Any tips, comments, observations or experiences?

Alfred

brainsurgeon
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 136
   Posted 2/16/2010 4:02 AM (GMT -6)   
Ask a plastic surgeon if injections of steroids into the scars will help. Used to be done, but I don't know now.
70 years old (1939) USA citizen
Prostatic carcinoma dxed June 2009 by PSA (7.0) and then Bx
PSAs yearly since 2001 ranged 1.52 to 7.0. Doubled from 3.5 to 7.0 in one year.
Neg. CT and Bone Scan
4 of 8 biopsies positive (all right side) Gleason Score 3+4=7
Robotic assisted total prostatectomy and node excision July 2009 in Luzern, Switzerland by Dr. A. Mattei in the Kantonsspital. New Gleason was 4+4=8
pT2c G3 pN0 (0/14 nodes +, Margins, etc. clear
Catheter out in 5 days (home in 3 days). No incontinence
Positional neurpraxia in hip and knee resolved 90+% in 5 months.
Potency: beginning tumescence??? at 3 weeks post-op. Still happens at 3 months PO. Nearly usable one month later. At 5 mo. with 100 mg Vitamin V, pretty good. Now beginning 5 mg Cialis daily.
3month PSA less than 0.01, 6 month PSA less than 0.01


Herophilus
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 478
   Posted 2/16/2010 4:06 PM (GMT -6)   
ALF
My vertical incision is exactly as you described.  When I was a young kid we had something called a creepy crawler bug maker set.  There was one particular worm that we made and used for fish bait.  Every time that I get out of the shower and admire what looks like the perfect steroid sculptured body, (yes I have a magic mirror) I see that purple creepy crawler!!!

Steve n Dallas
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 4053
   Posted 2/16/2010 4:21 PM (GMT -6)   
There is another recent desicussion on scars...Someone posted the technical name for the dark colors etc....And as I recall there isn't much you can do except keep lotion on them.

Age 54   - 5'11"   205lbs
Overall Heath Condition - Good
PSA - July 2007 & Jan 2008 -> 1.3
Biopsy - 03/04/08 -> Gleason 6 
06/25/08 - Da Vinci robotic laparoscopy
05/14/09  - 4th Quarter PSA -> less then .01
11/20/09 - 18 Month PSA -> less then .01
Surgeon - Keith A. Waguespack, M.D.


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 24300
   Posted 2/16/2010 4:59 PM (GMT -6)   
My radiation oncologist said, in a general converstation, that they sometimes use a single zap of radiation to ease troubles with pesky scar issues, and she said it is really effective.
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incontinence:  1 Month     ED:  Non issue at any point post surgery
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12
Latest: 7/9 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/9 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 out 38 days, 9/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl., mapped  9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - 11/27 IMRT SRT 39 sess/72 gys ,cath #8 33 days, Cath #9 35 days, 12/7 - Cath #10 43 days, 1/19 - Corr Surgery #4,  Caths #11 and #12 in at the same time, 2/8-Cath #11 out - 21 days


English Alf
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 2087
   Posted 2/17/2010 7:04 AM (GMT -6)   
Hero
Yes defintely a plastic fishing-bait worm.

But the less said about having things that look like dangling worms down there the better!

Maybe I should draw legs and a head on it and turn it into a friendly caterpillar or centipede.

Alf

LV-TX
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 966
   Posted 2/17/2010 2:07 PM (GMT -6)   
Hmmmm....anyone try Vitamin E oil. Worked for me. Scars are nearly invisible now.
You are beating back cancer, so hold your head up with dignity
 
Les
 
Age 58 at Diagnosis
Oct 2006 - PSA 2.6 - DRE Normal
May 2008 - PSA 4.6 - DRE Normal / TRUS normal
July 2008 - Biopsy 4 of 12 Positive 5 - 30% Involved Bilateral w/PNI - Gleason (3+3)6 Stage T1C
Robotic Surgery Sept 18, 2008
Pathology October 1, 2008 - Gleason 7 (3+4) Staged pT2c NO MX - Gland 50 cc
Seminal Vesicles and Lymph Nodes clear
Positive Margins Right Posterior Lobe
PSA 5 week Oct 2008 <.05
                   3 month Jan 2009 .06
                   6 month Apr 2009 .06
                   9 month Jul  2009 .08
                 12 month Oct 2009 .09 


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 24300
   Posted 2/17/2010 2:56 PM (GMT -6)   
BTW, my one long scar from open surgery (11/2008) is barely noticable. You would have to go out of your way to find it.
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incontinence:  1 Month     ED:  Non issue at any point post surgery
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12
Latest: 7/9 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/9 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 out 38 days, 9/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl., mapped  9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - 11/27 IMRT SRT 39 sess/72 gys ,cath #8 33 days, Cath #9 35 days, 12/7 - Cath #10 43 days, 1/19 - Corr Surgery #4,  Caths #11 and #12 in at the same time, 2/8-Cath #11 out - 21 days


1218davinci
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2010
Total Posts : 10
   Posted 4/15/2010 5:58 PM (GMT -6)   
HI Alfred, this is John ( CA) - Yes I have same problem like you - the inside muscles about 1 inch on each side of the middle scar keep bugging me. I have requested a lot of tests, Xray, ct scan, MRI, Instense stool test, blood test, urine test, ultrasound all normal. Good news  but I still feel uncomfortable and make me tired every day - difficult to exercise.  Davinci on 12/18/09
 
1218davici John
 
English Alf said...
Hi

Has anyone else had or is having trouble with their scars?

I'm just over six months after surgery.

My five little wounds are okay, though very dark red. The big scar above my navel however is going a bit keloid: it's starting to look like I've got a dark red worm on my belly.

I'm massaging a prescription silicon gel on it, but it still stings or itches most of the time, and the muscles about an inch inside me to the left and right of the scar also ache a lot.

(I am clearly someone that this can happen to. A small scar on my chest left by the removal of a mole a year ago still stings and itches and has gone lumpy despite having originally being almost invisible after being done by a plastic surgeon, a scar on my back from another mole removal took over 18 months to stop stinging.)

Any tips, comments, observations or experiences?

Alfred


JB71
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 202
   Posted 4/15/2010 6:18 PM (GMT -6)   
When my wife had breast cancer surgery she used PURE ALOE VERA on her scarse. The doctor commented on how well the scars healed and today they are almost invisable.

So when I had my surgery she INSISTED that I use the same on my 5" long scar on a daily bases. Naturally I do as I'm told and must admit that this stuff works.

Just be sure that it is PURE ALOE VERA. You might have to ask the pharmasist for it as it seems that they keep it behind the counter.
.


Doting Daughter
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 1064
   Posted 4/15/2010 6:24 PM (GMT -6)   
Unfortunately, I also form Keloids and if you know you form them, you can let the surgeons know ahead of time and they can make the stitches tighter or closer together so that you don't form them as bad. I also had a dermatologist give me a shot of something ( I can't remember what it was, it has been awhile) because I had one that was big and itchy and the shot drastically reduced the size and stopped the itching. Call your dermatologist...I'm sure they will be able to help you out. They just do a quick injection. Good luck!
Father's Age DX 62 (now 64)
Original Gleason 3+4=7, Post-Op Gleason- 4+3=7,
DaVinci Surgery Aug 31, 2007
Focally Positive Right Margin, One positive node. T3a N1 M0.
Bone Scan/CT Negative (Sept. 10, 2007)
Oct. 17 PSA 0.07
Nov. 13 PSA 0.05
Casodex adm. Nov 07, Lupron beg. Dec 03, 2007 2 yrs
Radiation March 03-April 22, 2008- 8 weeks 5x a week
July 2, 08 PSA <.02
Oct. 10, 08 PSA <.02
Oct. 9, 09 PSA <.01 Last Lupron Shot
Praying for a cured dad.

Co-Moderator Prostate Cancer Forum


goodlife
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 2621
   Posted 4/15/2010 8:06 PM (GMT -6)   
Alf,

In the meantime, might have to keep your shirt on st the beach this summer.

Sorry about the added problems. Hope at least you can get relief from the discomfort.
Goodlife
 
Age 58, PSA 4.47 Biopsy - 2/12 cores , Gleason 4 + 5 = 9
Da Vinci, Cleveland Clinic  4/14/09   Nerves spared, but carved up a little.
0/23 lymph nodes involved  pT3a NO MX
Catheter and 2 stints in ureters for 2 weeks .
Neg Margins, bladder neck negative
Living the Good Life, cancer free  6 week PSA  <.03
3 month PSA <.01 (different lab)
5 month PSA <.03 (undetectable)
6 Month PSA <.01
1 pad a day, no progress on ED.  Trimix injection
No pads, 1/1/10,  9 month PSA < .01
1 year psa (364 days) .01


English Alf
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 2087
   Posted 4/16/2010 1:06 AM (GMT -6)   
Jerry & DD

I've got an appointment with my dermatologist in June so I can mention these ideas to her. The itching is a little better than it was, perhaps thanks to the silicone gel

I'm not sure about tight stitches having an effect though for as I said the scar from removing a mole went funny and that was stitched with extreme precision. It had been invisible for about a month and then went keloid very quickly.
I also don't see why I don't get keloids on my hands, arms, legs and feet, and in fact the lowest two da Vinci scars near my hip bones are already almost white and invisible.

I have seen someone at the hospital since I started this thread and they checked out my abdomen around the scar and found no medical problem. The thought is that the muscles and tissues inside me were pushed about a lot during the op and will take a long time to recover. (And having seen another video of the op recently I am surprised my insides did not hurt even more afterwards)
It still aches though and perhaps the thing about this ache that annoys me most is that it hurts to hug or cuddle anyone especially if they have a button or buckle that lines up with the scar. I can luckily hug and cuddle my wife from other directions or do it without the buttons and clothes in the way, but I'd like to be able to hug a few other people who are close to me too without wincing.

And added complication is that with RT about to start I've now been told that I have to stop using any creams on my lower abdomen, but they are going to measure things to see if the biggest scar is inside or outside the area concerned.

Alf

Post Edited (English Alf) : 4/16/2010 1:29:37 AM (GMT-6)


Sephie
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 1789
   Posted 4/16/2010 9:31 AM (GMT -6)   
Acquaphor ointment was highly recommended by my dermatologist when I had a fairly good size patch of basel cell skin cancer removed a few years ago. When I went to have the stiches removes, the doc said it was like pulling the stitches out of butter. Also, the scar, which is a couple of inches long, healed very smoothly.

John will periodically put some on his "big scar" right over his belly button. The other scars are very thin and smooth.
Husband diagnosed in 2/2008 at age 57 with stage T1c. Robotic surgery performed 3/2008. Stage upgraded to T3a (solitary focus of extraprostatic extension). Perineural tumor infiltration present. Apex margin, bladder neck and SVs negative. Final Gleason 3+4. PSA: 0.0 til July 2009. August 2009 - 0.1, September 0.3, October back to 0.0, December 0.0, March 2010 0.0. Next PSA in 6 months. Thank you God!


Doting Daughter
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 1064
   Posted 4/17/2010 9:45 PM (GMT -6)   
My dermatologist informed me that they are worse in "fatty" areas. Not implying you are fat by any means , but I believe areas like breast tissue, butt, stomach etc are more likely to scar than those in less fatty areas like hands, arms, feet etc. Let me know what you find out! I am definitely interested to hear!
Father's Age DX 62 (now 64)
Original Gleason 3+4=7, Post-Op Gleason- 4+3=7,
DaVinci Surgery Aug 31, 2007
Focally Positive Right Margin, One positive node. T3a N1 M0.
Bone Scan/CT Negative (Sept. 10, 2007)
Oct. 17 PSA 0.07
Nov. 13 PSA 0.05
Casodex adm. Nov 07, Lupron beg. Dec 03, 2007 2 yrs
Radiation March 03-April 22, 2008- 8 weeks 5x a week
July 2, 08 PSA <.02
Oct. 10, 08 PSA <.02
Oct. 9, 09 PSA <.01 Last Lupron Shot
Praying for a cured dad.

Co-Moderator Prostate Cancer Forum


Casey59
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 3172
   Posted 4/18/2010 7:40 AM (GMT -6)   
I applied aloe daily starting 10 days after surgery.  Not any "special" aloe; just the stuff I already had for applying after getting too much sun.  Applied it fairly regularly for about 6 or 8 weeks.  After a year, the scars were hardly visible.

Mavica
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 375
   Posted 4/18/2010 1:15 PM (GMT -6)   
I underwent surgery using the da Vinci method in September 2008. The only scar which has not completely disappeared from sight is the one above my navel.


Age:  60 (58 at diagnosis - June, 2008)

April '08 PSA 4.8 ("free PSA" 7.9), up from 3.5 year prior

June '08 had biopsy, 2 days later told results positive but in less than 1% of sample (Gleason's 3+3=6)

Developed sepsis 2 days post-biopsy, seriously ill in hospital for 3 days

Dr. recommended robotic removal using da Vinci; Surgery 9/10/08

Northwestern Memorial Hospital, Chicago, IL; Dr. Robert Nadler, Urologist/Surgeon

Post-Op Gleason's:  3+3, Tertiary 4; Margins:  Free ; Bladder & Urethral:  Free

Seminal vesicles:  Not involved; Lymphatic/Vascular Invasion:  Not involved

Tumor:  T2c; Location:  Bilateral; Volume:  20%; Catheter:  Removed 12-days after surgery

Incontinent:  Yes (1 light (woman's style) pad per day)

ED: Combination of Cialis and MUSE (alprostadil) once weekly: started 9-27-08

Returned to work 9-29-08 (18-19 days post-op)

PSA test result, post-op, 10/08: 0.0; 12/08: 0.0; 4/09: 0.0; 9/09: 0.0; 3/10: 0.0

 


bluebird
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 2542
   Posted 4/20/2010 10:19 PM (GMT -6)   
smurf  Here's the other thread started by Hopeso
 
 
Hope this helps...
 
 

IdahoSurvivor
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 1015
   Posted 4/20/2010 11:14 PM (GMT -6)   
I thought I heard a bluebird singing... What a wonderful sound! tongue

English Alf
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 2087
   Posted 4/21/2010 12:45 AM (GMT -6)   
Bluebird

Thanks for the link to Hopeso (Leslie & Dennis)

Interesting to pick up on how many Keloids are around

Alf

MrGimpy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 504
   Posted 4/21/2010 6:00 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Alf,

I also had some pretty ugly Keloids after my surgery. I used this stuff called Mediscar that the Dr recommended. It worked pretty good, all that is visable now is the drain scar on my left side. My Keloids were pretty bad, but I only used it for a few months and am very happy with the results

Here is the Mediscar website, but I bought my tubes off their Ebay Mediscar account. I just looked and they sell for $10.00 less a tube on Ebay, wish I saw that sooner, oh well


www.mediscar.com/
Stats:
Age: 52, PSA (2008)=1.9
Biopsy on 01/09/09, Gleason Score = 3+3
One (1) out of twelve (12) cores was positive, plus external nodule found
Surgery (Da Vinci, robotic prostatectomy): 4/7/09
Post Op Path 3+3
Removed Catheter: 04/19/09
100% bladder control - Pad free 7/09
PSA 7/09 undetectable, <0.01 - 3 months post-op
PSA 1/10 undetectable, <0.01 - 9 months post-op
Trimix provides 100% erectile function

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