Lots of bleeding from Catheter?

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gibson00
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 190
   Posted 3/13/2010 6:40 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi all,
Finally made a 'signature' to give my Fathers history.
His prostate is quite enlarged, roughly 8cm x 6cm. He has been in a lot of pain, which they are trying (somewhat unsuccessfully) to control with morphine.
Despite having two Turps in November, it would appear that his prostate keeps closing, and they keep needing to put a catheter in.
He was recently having some bleeding once in a while when the catheter was out, some clots coming out, etc. When they put the most recent catheter in a couple of days ago, he's had a large amount of blood in his urine bag.
The oncologist did tell him that the cancer can create small blood vessels that can bleed...
Could the catheter being pushed in cause this much bleeding??

Also, for those of you that had to go through pain management, did they let you use anything besides morphine?? His Dr's seem reluctant to use anything else. I'm thinking they should give him oxycodone or percocet? He's essentially bed-ridden in pain. :(

Radiation and chemo starts in about 10 days....we're praying it starts to shrink things..
Father 65 y/o at diagnosis November 2009
Gleason 9 & 10, stage 3 - seminal vesicle involvement
Casodex for last two weeks of November '09, then Lupron.
Scheduled to start IMRT and Taxotere March 25 2010.


60Michael
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 1774
   Posted 3/13/2010 7:26 PM (GMT -6)   
Gibson,
Sorry to hear about your father and his pain. I suppose some Dr.'s get stuck on certain meds and dont consider others. David is our resident expert on catheters so he maybe can give you his thoughts on the blood. If the pain doesnt get better soon, I would want to try something else. But I really couldnt even take the oxycodone they gave me for post surgery due to the nasuea, and Lord only knows what possible side effects morphine might cause. Hope that there are better days around the corner for your father and your entire family.
Michael
Dx with PCA 12/08 2 out of 12 cores positive 4.5 psa
59 yo when diagnosed
Robotic surgery 5/09 Atlanta, Ga
Catheter out after 10 days
Gleason upgraded to 3+5, volume less than 10%
Margin slightly involved
2 pads per day, 1 depends but getting better,
8/5 1 depend at night only, now none
 started ED tx 7/17, slow go
Post op dx of neuropathy
3 months psa.01, 6 month psa.4, 6 1/2 month psa.5
Starting IMRT on 1/18/10
Great family and friends
Michael


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 23848
   Posted 3/13/2010 10:46 PM (GMT -6)   
Gibson, that's a sad and painful story you posted, I feel for your father and for you and your family. Sounds like he's really in a bad way.

As the owner of 14 catheters so far, things that can still cause bleeding for me, is excessive walking, mopping floors, mowing the yard with a walk behind self propelled lawn mower, things of physical stress like that. Also, when I have had these corrective surgeries for strictures and blockages, I sometimes will bleed and clear debris and mini clots for days.

With your father's more serious cancer status, what the doctor said about the source of bleeding sounds very believable. His doctor can give you a color chart, or even a nurse, that shows your the relative color changes when blood is mixed into a catheter. A little bit of blood can look frightening when mixed with urine. Though, I have had bags that were pure red fresh blood, and those freaked even me out. I have gotten use to the different shades of pink and red they grade by. For the most part, its not dangerous, just creepy.

On the pain management side, if his dr is keeping him on morphine, then his pain level and quality must be pretty high, the other drugs are a step down in managing severe pain, not stronger. There are synthetic morphine based pain meds too, but they are usually only administered in a direct hospital setting, or in a hospice setting. Don't have the name of the drug handy, but one of them was one of the drugs that helped kill Michael Jackson. I was on it for my first 2 days in the hospital after open surgery, and I will testify, it puts you in a total pain free state and a mind set of total and absolute bliss.

I ended salvage radiation recently, and due to swelling and my history of blockages, they installed the SP (suprapubic) catheter in me prior to starting the radiation, knowing that the radiation would cause further swelling. Might be something to mention to his doctor too before beginning the radiation and chemo, be one less thing for you and him to worry about.

Hoping for the best

David in SC
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incontinence:  1 Month     ED:  Non issue at any point post surgery, no problem post SRT
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12
Latest: 7/9 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/9 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 out 38 days, 9/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl., mapped  9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - 11/27 IMRT SRT 39 sess/72 gys ,cath #8 33 days, Cath #9 35 days, 12/7 - Cath #10 43 days, 1/19 - Corr Surgery #4,  Caths #11 and #12  same time, 2/8-Cath #11 out - 21 days, 3/2- Cath #12 out - 41 days, 3/2- Corr Surgery #5, Caths #13 & #14 same time, 3/6 Cath #13 out - 4 days


gibson00
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 190
   Posted 3/14/2010 6:48 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks Purgatory.
Funny, his docs actually are thinking that the radiation and chemo will ultimatelty shrink it back down, not swell it more?
We did talk to them about the suprapubic catheter, and I believe they were hoping that the treatment would shrink things down, but they didn't dismiss the idea, so that may still be an option.
Father 65 y/o at diagnosis November 2009
Gleason 9 & 10, stage 3 - seminal vesicle involvement
Two TURPs mid Nov. 2009
Casodex for last two weeks of November '09, then Lupron.
Scheduled to start IMRT and Taxotere March 25 2010.


Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 23848
   Posted 3/14/2010 10:27 AM (GMT -6)   
If his urethra narrows down during radiation, your father will then be in a difficult and painful situation, and it will be more of an emergency situation under tough conditions to resolve. Having the SP cath in place did add an element of pain to my treatments, but if you father is already on that level of pain management, that shouldn't be a major issue. I am sure that you and your father and his doctors will come up with the best solution for him.

Good luck.

David in SC

P.S. I did way too much walking yesterday, mostly store shopping (I was on a quest, lol), and had some pain and bleeding issues last evening myself.
Age: 57, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
Open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incontinence:  1 Month     ED:  Non issue at any point post surgery, no problem post SRT
Post Surgery  PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12
Latest: 7/9 met 2 rad. oncl, 7/9 cath #6 - blockage, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 out 38 days, 9/9 - met 3rd rad. oncl., mapped  9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath/hard dialation, 10/5 - 11/27 IMRT SRT 39 sess/72 gys ,cath #8 33 days, Cath #9 35 days, 12/7 - Cath #10 43 days, 1/19 - Corr Surgery #4,  Caths #11 and #12  same time, 2/8-Cath #11 out - 21 days, 3/2- Cath #12 out - 41 days, 3/2- Corr Surgery #5, Caths #13 & #14 same time, 3/6 Cath #13 out - 4 days


gibson00
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 190
   Posted 3/14/2010 1:14 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks.
He's just about at the end of his rope, very frustrated and wants to give up. As part of the trial he is in, he had to wait for 3 months before he gets radiation and chemo, so dealing with trips to the ER, morphine, bleeding, etc. on a daily basis. Trying to get him through this last week before treatment starts, and now this bad bleeding problem comes up. Trying to get in touch with his urologist, perhaps needs to be scoped, as it is still bleeding a lot...3 days straight now...
Father 65 y/o at diagnosis November 2009
Gleason 9 & 10, stage 3 - seminal vesicle involvement
Two TURPs mid Nov. 2009
Casodex for last two weeks of November '09, then Lupron.
Scheduled to start IMRT and Taxotere March 25 2010.

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