Lupron and Libido - How long does it take to get into your system?

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woodysgirl
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 29
   Posted 8/4/2010 7:46 AM (GMT -6)   
Just curious, how long after the Lupron shot does it take for libido to decline? Woody had first shot almost 3 weeks ago and I guess we were expecting an almost immediate response, however he has not noticed any difference. He is happy as can be but I'm afraid if the testosterone is not dropping, the treatment is not working.
Woodysgirl
_________
Woodys stats:
Age at daignosis 55
PSA at diagnosis 26
Biopsy results positive in 4/12 or possibly 4/6 (need to get clarrification)at 40% R&L mid; 60%  L apex; 80% R apex
Gleason 7 (3+4 in 3 and 4+3 at R apex)
Treatment choice: ADT/EBRT/HDR
 
 

aspen4
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 59
   Posted 8/4/2010 8:13 AM (GMT -6)   
It took 6 months to get where sexual activity was not happening. A year for the libido to become nonexistent. the loss of the libido made the loss of the sexual activity easy to handle. I have gained an understanding of women:))

medved
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 968
   Posted 8/4/2010 10:09 AM (GMT -6)   
Woody's -- if there is any concern about whether the Lupron is working, it would be easy enough for the doctor to do a testosterone level test. I think T level should be monitored in nearly all patients who are taking Lurpon (and other LHRH agonists), but for whatever reason some docs don't do it.
Age 46.  Father died of p ca. 
My psa starting age 40: 1.4, 1.3, 1.43, 1.74, 1.7, 1.5, 1.5
 

zufus
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 3137
   Posted 8/4/2010 11:22 AM (GMT -6)   
Others have good info above on this. Technically LHRH (Lupron) takes about 14 days to down regulate and start thereafter a downwardness in 'T' levels and later psa levels, during this 14 days you are subjected to PCa flare as 'T' level surges first during this 14 days or so, it is how it works. Dr. Strum says no patient at all should be subjected to 'flare' and uro-docs make this error all the time (must be their schooling). It took about 90 days to reach my lowest psa level (and dumb uro-doc did not mention casodex prior-so I got flare added that I didn't need), then later got to radiations, I got psa's done monthly and first month not that much drop...but I had higher end stats and volume of PCa. One should be given casodex prior for like 12-14 days or other flutamides that would stop the flare issue, as he states in his book p.140 (patient with bad luck on flare died within days, complications related...read it for reality check).

Degarelix,  new drug similar but not  an LHRH (Gnrh?), has no flare associated with it and drops T levels in like 24-48 hrs. (fast). FDA approved this earlier this year, just getting out into the docs hands, some might not even know they can get it. Looks like it could become a better mouse trap, choice (maybe).

It is rare that Lupron is ineffective right from the get go, but if such scenario happens one is likely dealing with highly aggressive, refractive PCa, one example is the variant "small cell PCa" it is one of the worst, it is rare in patients is the good news. Hope nobody herein is found with such.
Youth is wasted on the Young-(W.C. Fields)

Post Edited (zufus) : 8/4/2010 10:25:33 AM (GMT-6)


STW
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2009
Total Posts : 272
   Posted 8/4/2010 11:38 AM (GMT -6)   
I wasn't keeping close track but realized that at the one month mark I just didn't care anymore.
Diagnosed at 54
PSA 8.7 Biopsy 1/7/09
4 of 6 cores positive, one at 90%
Gleason 3+4=7 Neg bone scan 1/15/09
One shot Lupron Depot 1/27/09 Tax Season
RP 4/29/09
Neg lymph nodes, postive seminal vesicle, 1 positive margin
Gleason 3+4=7 with tertiary 5 T3b
Catheter out at 2 weeks no nighttime incontinence Pad free week 5
PSA 6/6/09 <0.1; 9/10/09 <0.1; 3/11/10 <0.1

Don K.
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 72
   Posted 8/4/2010 11:15 PM (GMT -6)   
Woodysgirl:
I don't know what my testosterone level was prior to the first Lupron shot, but I was pretty sexually active.
 
After three weeks I noticed my libido was starting downhill and after six weeks I not only was not interested in sex, but the erections were getting few and far between.
 
I was on Lupron for 10 months and am now 6 weeks into a "vacation". Just barely seeing a slow rise in libido. I guess it will take some time for the testosterone level to regain normal levels.
 
PS. While on Lupron my testosterone level was 20. Considered a castrate level.
 
Don K.

woodysgirl
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 29
   Posted 8/5/2010 4:42 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks to all for sharing.  I guess we were expecting a more immediate reaction.  Zufus, does the T flare occur with every shot or just the initial one?  Someone else had mentioned this, of course it was already after the shot, but he is supposed to be on this for 2 years and is not on casodex.
Woodysgirl
_________
Woodys stats:
Age at daignosis 55
PSA at diagnosis 26
Biopsy results positive in 4/12 or possibly 4/6 (need to get clarrification)at 40% R&L mid; 60%  L apex; 80% R apex
Gleason 7 (3+4 in 3 and 4+3 at R apex)
Treatment choice: ADT/EBRT/HDR
 
 

zufus
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 3137
   Posted 8/5/2010 7:18 AM (GMT -6)   
As far as I know and have not read contrary. Because the drug is given at overlapping intervals commonly 3-4 months versions are most used, your 'T' level would be way down by then and the next injection overlapps the effects from the prior one, so basically does not happen. Now if someone took a one year holiday (intermittent) and 'T' level was high enough therein, then it should be a possible issue and casodex should maybe be done prior. The worst is for high stats patients to be subjected to this on the intial useage, it could actually influence them in many ways.

Someone else might mention counter effects-drugs or useful ideas on how to better tolerate being on Lupron for 1-2 yrs., it is not necessarily a walk in the park. Be prepared for some nasty hot flashes, heavy sweating, weight gain, muscle atrophy, possible muscle aches, mood swings (may be totally new for a male to experience, may include the crying game), bone density loss and possible memory loss.....otherwise the drug works well at controlling psa levels atleast for a decent duration. You are going to have to understand his symptoms will effect your relationship at some point, maybe not now but 6 months or more you may notice. He will need a supportive pal or loved one, it is not all easy street. Best to you going forward, you asked some good questions, that I didn't know way back then either.
 
OH ------by the way years ago a batch of bogus  (phony) Lupron got into the hands of some docs(unknown how) and they unknowningly injected a placebo or ineffective whatever it was....some of the cases were figured out, because T level didn't drop and new injection with different batch numbers and/or switch to Zoladex or other, found they did work thereafter.  LAND of the bizzare, so if someone has no change in T level, consider this possibility it happened before. There are some stories out there that are not fiction.
Youth is wasted on the Young-(W.C. Fields)

Post Edited (zufus) : 8/5/2010 6:25:19 AM (GMT-6)


Fairwind
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 2350
   Posted 8/5/2010 11:02 AM (GMT -6)   
I suspect this thread will fill out and offer more insights..

http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=1867424
Age today: 68. Married, 6', 215 pounds, active, no health issues.
PSA at age 55: 3.5, DRE negative. Advice, "Keep an eye on it".
PSA at age 58: 4.5
PSA at age 61: 5.2
PSA at age 64: 7.5, DRE "Abnormal"
PSA at age 65: 8.5, DRE " normal", biopsy, 12 core, negative...
PSA at age 66 9.0 DRE "normal", BPH, Finesteride. (Proscar)
PSA at age 67 4.5 DRE "normal" second biopsy, negative.
PSA at age 67.5 5.6, DRE "normal" U-doc worried..
PSA at age 68, 7.0, third biopsy positive for cancer in 4 cores, 3 cores Gleason 6, one core Gleason 9. Finesteride discontinued, still no urinary symptoms, never had any..From age 55 to 65 I had no health insurance.

I have a date with the robo surgeon on Sept 3 but I'm keeping my options open. I'm also looking at seeds combined with IGRT which seems to be having good results with high-risk patients..

Sancarlos
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 242
   Posted 8/8/2010 8:47 AM (GMT -6)   
I have been on Lupron for almost one full year, with first injection mid-August of 2009. Loss of libido occurred before the end of the first month on the drug, and impotence (inability to have an erection) followed about a month after that. Other side effects I have observed are :

Hot flashes – Mild hot flashes that result in temporary sweating. No pattern to when they come, may be at day when reading or at night when sleeping. Fairly mild irritant.

Increased bone and joint pain – My bones and joints are much stiffer and hurt more than before I went on Lupron. But I am 66 and a year older and not sure how much of this can be attributed to age and how much is Lupron.

Discomfort at point of injection – The injection results in a deep ache at the point and significant body aches all over for up to a week after the injection.

Blood test abnormalities – I became mildly anemic, for the first time in my life. This has been corrected with Vitamin B12 and iron supplements.

Weakness or general loss of strength – Very noticeable. A ten mile bike ride now is very tiring, not so smuch during the exercise but afterwards. Immediately before I started on Lupron I was cycling 70-100 miles a week with no fatigue.

Weight gain – I have managed to avoid weight gain, but only by careful control of diet and making myself exercise in spite of weakness.

Swelling of the breast – Minor swelling of the breast.

Depression – Occasional depression, but not severe. But is depression not a normal response for a 66 year old man in good physical condition and sexually active to have all of that taken away by PCa?

Overall the symptoms I have experienced are very much in line with what my radiation oncologist advised me I would experience.

Sancarlos
Age 66
PC diagnosed 7/2009
Stage: T2c
Gleason: 9 (4 + 5), 6 of 6 cores positive
Bone, CAT and MIR scans negative

Treatment: brachytherapy (103 palladium), 100 gy, 11.15.2010 + hormone therapy (lupron) + IMRT on Novalis (February-March, 2010), 45 gy.

PSA at time of diagnosis: 11.9
PSA 10/2009, 5.0
PSA 12/2009, 0.56
PSA 5/2010, 0.15

Post Edited (Sancarlos) : 8/8/2010 7:56:53 AM (GMT-6)


zufus
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 3137
   Posted 8/8/2010 10:54 AM (GMT -6)   
San Carlos feel for you pal those side effects are a bigger deal than alot of new folks are aware of and your posting about it is even worse than my 2yrs. experience using it all in ADT3 level, but was age 52 (2002) and in very good shape then and still very good after getting away from this drug useage. Dr. Strum suggests further bone testing options to be done on patients showing risk factors and consider supplements and options to counter those effects. If it gets bad enough lossing bone density, you will not like reading about 'Skeletal' bone events in PCa patients, can be crippling, can be spine issues, etc. (heavy duty to think about). Wonderful side effect of LHRH drugs, usually not mentioned much by the doc giving such, do ya think?)
Keep an eye on your own issues, you have choices even if your doc doesn't endorse them or like them. It is your future to consider, not mine nor the docs...he doesn't live your issues and side effects, think about it all is a suggestion box note.

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 24265
   Posted 8/8/2010 11:15 AM (GMT -6)   
Sancarlos,

Thats a very long list of side effects, sounds like you have been getting all the major ones. I wish you well.
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 7/08 12.3, 9/08 14.5, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 - 7/7 Positive, 40-90% Cancer, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, Rht nerves saved, 4 days in hospt, on catheters for 63 days, 5th one out 1/09
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin

Incontinence: 1 Month ED: Non issue at any point post surgery, no problem post SRT
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16

Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 3
Latest: 7/9 cath #6 - 41 days, 8/9 2nd corr surgery, 8/9 cath #7 - 38 days, mapped 9/9, 10/1 - 3rd corr. surgery - SP cath, 10/5 - 11/27 IMRT SRT 39 sess/72 gys ,cath #8 33 days, Cath #9 35 days, Cath #10 43 days, 1/19 - Corr Surgery #4, Caths #11 and #12 ,Cath #11 - 21 days, Cath #12 - 41 days, 3/2- Corr Surgery #5, Cath #13 - 4 days, Cath #14- 27 days, Cath #15 - 26 days, Cath #16 - 31 days, Cath #17 - 39 days, 7/2 - Corr Surgery #6, Cath #18 - 13 days, Cath #19 - 17 days, Total Blockage, Cath # 20 - 7/19

Sancarlos
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 242
   Posted 8/8/2010 2:47 PM (GMT -6)   
Zufus,

I have a three-month appointment tomorrow am with my medical oncologist and one topic I plan to bring to the consultation for sure is Lupron monotherapy versus some form of combined HT such as ADT3 or ADT4. The physician who originally put me on the Lupron was a radiation oncologist, and his plan was that I would stay on it for a couple of years. However, because of location I had the IMRT done at another center near where I live and am now seeing a medical oncologist who has not weighed in yet on the issue. I am personally persuaded by the research that given my risk I would be better off with a cocktail, but I will listen carefully to what he has to say, then do some more research before making up my mind. I figure things can not get much better either way I go. Lupron is no bed of roses, and I can not imagine that a cocktail of three of four different drugs would be better for my immediate well being, probably a lot worse.

On the positive side of life I still have a lot of things going for me. So far as I can tell there are absolutely no evil side effects from either the seed implant surgery or the IMRT. All of my blood work is good, blood pressure averages 110/65, total cholesterol is 120, my weight is good, and I am able to ride the bike 30-40 miles per week, and go to the gymn for workouts two or three days a week.

Sancarlos
Age 66
PC diagnosed 7/2009
Stage: T2c
Gleason: 9 (4 + 5), 6 of 6 cores positive
Bone, CAT and MIR scans negative

Treatment: brachytherapy (103 palladium), 100 gy, 11.15.2010 + hormone therapy (lupron) + IMRT on Novalis (February-March, 2010), 45 gy.

PSA at time of diagnosis: 11.9
PSA 10/2009, 5.0
PSA 12/2009, 0.56
PSA 5/2010, 0.15

Post Edited (Sancarlos) : 8/8/2010 2:34:14 PM (GMT-6)


zufus
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 3137
   Posted 8/8/2010 7:12 PM (GMT -6)   
Ask about casodex and proscar or avodart combo (ADT2), probably little lesser in side effects, many people say casodex is much more tolerable overall and proscar or avodart you may feel no differences(you can ask about side effects). I took proscar separately for a short time and could not detect anything using it in my case. (no profits made on these for the docs office) Ask about should you be using D3, fosamax or is zometa to be considered and at what point, these are useful on bone issues.

You should have had casodex prior to Lupron originally, sorry to say. Gleason 9 with psa of 11.9 is riskier than average for PCa flare issue when introduced the first 14 days into your body. Dr. Strum says in his book no PCa patient should be subjected to any possible flare in PCa...he knows this beast very well. But hey my genius uro-doc did the same to me when I knew no different and I had higher stats over yours. One patient died from relating complications of induced PCa flare mentioned in his book as an observational learning tool.
Youth is wasted on the Young-(W.C. Fields)

Sancarlos
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 242
   Posted 8/8/2010 8:25 PM (GMT -6)   
Zufus,

Thank you for your advice. I have printed it out and will take with me tomorrow along with other relevant literature, including Strum's A Primer on Prostate Cancer, specifically for the information about ADT3 and ADT4.

Based on what I now know about Lupron I should indeed have been given Casodex prior to Lupron to guard against possible flare. And I can not understand why it was not given, because my radiation oncologist at the time was in every way at the top of his game (credentials, experience with seed implant surgery, publications in the field, top notch center in Florida). And I recall that he even spoke to me about the possibility of flare from Lupron, and that there were drugs available that would prevent it. But if it was his intention to prescribe Casodex or something else to prevent flare he never go around to it. And hey, at the time I did not even know how to spell Lupron. I just knew that I had a very bad strain of prostate cancer and wanted to get something done tout de suite.

Sancarlos
Age 66
PC diagnosed 7/2009
Stage: T2c
Gleason: 9 (4 + 5), 6 of 6 cores positive
Bone, CAT and MIR scans negative

Treatment: brachytherapy (103 palladium), 100 gy, 11.15.2010 + hormone therapy (lupron) + IMRT on Novalis (February-March, 2010), 45 gy.

PSA at time of diagnosis: 11.9
PSA 10/2009, 5.0
PSA 12/2009, 0.56
PSA 5/2010, 0.15

zufus
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 3137
   Posted 8/9/2010 5:27 AM (GMT -6)   
Good hunting tommorrow, your doc will likely down play the flare issue as not all that significant (they have not seen patients die or have immediate events from so doing...still it is wrong). Whom is a big enough man to eat humble pie and admit I made an error??? Plus your challenging his medical (agenda) or advice by asking about other things and from other docs like talking about Strum probably won't make your doc feel great and he will maybe say...well go see him then! But, remember you live the protocols and the doc doesn't, you might even find yourself going elsewhere. You will find out how open minded he actually is real quick.
 
Example- a guy in Canada recently mentioned is his advanced PCa journey, he decided he wanted to try the estradiol patches for further control...his doc said no way...he said back to the doc, Dr. Premoli in Argentina has been using these on patients for years with good results and no issues...his loveable doc said "well go to him and get it"!!! This patient went to his GP in Canada and pleaded his case...the GP gave him an Rx for this, and he got 2 yrs. of PCa control, in an out of control scenario. Gee what is 2 yrs. worth to a patient that failed all the main stream thigs prior? This is typical fighting to get what you want to use.

Mention that you know of patients whom went of Lupron or typical ADT drugs and are having less side effects and decent results using: estrogenics, like estradiol patches or gel, DES, emcyt and then see if he over doses on that information (lol). I would love to be there when you mention such, not many docs know these enough or because there is no money in these don't ever go there. There are examples of people on these and they know the differences, including me 2 yrs. ADT3, 4-5 yrs. DES....night and day difference in side effects and control in my case. Those drugs do not rob bone density or memory loss and much more.

Do report back on this conversation and whatever protocols are offered or considered. This area is always of interest to me.
Youth is wasted on the Young-(W.C. Fields)

Post Edited (zufus) : 8/9/2010 4:32:50 AM (GMT-6)


Arno
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2010
Total Posts : 54
   Posted 8/9/2010 7:36 AM (GMT -6)   
Sancarlos said...
Zufus,

Based on what I now know about Lupron I should indeed have been given Casodex prior to Lupron to guard against possible flare.
Sancarlos


One week before my first shot of Zoladex I got Cyproterone acetate (brandnames: Androcur, Cyprostat,Cyproteron, Procur, Cyprone, Cyprohexal, Ciproterona, Cyproteronum, Neoproxil, Siterone). And additionally oxycodone, an oral medication which is generally prescribed for the relief of moderate to severe pain (opium-derived).
I have noticed nothing about a flare.
I asked my family doctor an extra PSA measurement before the Zoladex injection, when I had only used cyproteron, and used it for just 2 days, and the PSA had already dropped by more than 50% !
After 2 weeks I continued with Casodex (actually, the generic version of it, bicalutamide).
Zoladex is here about 600 euro, and it takes an other 100 euro to have it injected by a trained nurse at your home (current exchange rate of the euro is about 1.30 US$).
March'06: PSA 3.6
Diagnosed at age 63 Sep'09: PSA 575, GS 7 (4+3)
3 positive cores in 6
Bone scan: as a fully lit christmas tree
With Zoladex+150mg Casodex PSA <0.1
Additionally 4-weekly Zometa (zoledronin acid)

Sancarlos
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 242
   Posted 8/9/2010 10:14 PM (GMT -6)   
Zufus,

I met with the medical oncologist today. He said that in his opinion my situation did not warrant total androgen blocking at this time. He mentioned that there is no randomized data that proves that this protocol is effective, even though the theory behind it is good, and the side effects of two or three more drugs might be significant. As an alternative he recommended that if the symptoms were tolerable I should continue on Lupron for another 6-9 months, or until my PSA reaches a nadir, and add a light dose (50 mg per day) of Cassodex to go along with the Lupron. He suggested that if the Lupron symptoms were to become intolerable I could switch to a very heavy dose of Cassodex + Avodart.

So that is where we stand as of today. I went along with his recommendation and had the Lupron injection, which has left my butt very sore. And I began the Cassodex.

BTW, Arno, the cost of an injection of Lupron is well over $2000 USD a pop in my part of the world.

Sancarlos
Age 66
PC diagnosed 7/2009
Stage: T2c
Gleason: 9 (4 + 5), 6 of 6 cores positive
Bone, CAT and MIR scans negative

Treatment: brachytherapy (103 palladium), 100 gy, 11.15.2010 + hormone therapy (lupron) + IMRT on Novalis (February-March, 2010), 45 gy.

PSA at time of diagnosis: 11.9
PSA 10/2009, 5.0
PSA 12/2009, 0.56
PSA 5/2010, 0.15

Post Edited (Sancarlos) : 8/9/2010 9:18:50 PM (GMT-6)


Don K.
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 72
   Posted 8/9/2010 10:44 PM (GMT -6)   
Sancarlos:
 
I've been reading this thread with interest.
 
One thing you mentioned on side effects from Lupron is soreness at the injection sit.
 
Amen brother! My onco seemed surprised when I told him and I started to think it was just me.
 
First Lupron shot was just another shot in the butt. Second (4Mo) shot on the next morning I was so sore down there that I could not even get out of bed.
 
Anyway, after 10mo on Lupron + Casodex I am getting a vacation from the Lupron and just Casodex seems to be holding the PSA down so far.
 
Thanks for sharing
 
Don K.

Ash2001
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 8/10/2010 12:37 AM (GMT -6)   
I have been reading your thread and and would like to know more about Zoladex. This is what the doctors have recomnded for my dad to bring down his PSA. How often is the injection required? Does Zoladex also cause flare ups? Does he need to take Casodex along with Zoladex? What are teh side effexts of Zoladex.
From you dicussion it seems that Lupron has innumerable side effects.I fail to undrestand then why are the doctors recommending Lupron over the other medicine. All teh med names feel like Geek and Latin right now but I am learning. I have come a long way since my first post less than a week ago. Like someone mentioned PC is a journey and I am just getting started..
High PSA Detected- July 30th
PSA Level-65.8
DRE Positive-August 2nd
Biopsy Reults-Positive August 6th
CT Scan/Bone Scan- Negative August 9th

Sancarlos
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 242
   Posted 8/10/2010 10:37 AM (GMT -6)   
Ash2001 said...

From you dicussion it seems that Lupron has innumerable side effects.I fail to undrestand then why are the doctors recommending Lupron over the other medicine.


As I understand matters you need three kinds of drugs for total adrogen blocking; 1) an LHRH agonist (Lupron, Zoladex, Eligard, Viadur), 2) an antiandrogen (Casodex, Eulexin, Androcur), and 3) an inhibitor that blocks conversion of residual testosterone into DHT (Avodart) . I looked at the side effects of the other LHRH drugs and they did not appear much different to me than those of Lupron.

The literature is not clear that the LHRH agonist can be replaced with another drug. Some studies have shown that when Casodex is given at a high enough dosage it may be equivalent to the use of a Lupron shot plus low-dose Casodex. But many doctors apparently do not believe this is a confirmed fact so they stay with traditional practice and continue to prescribe as first barrier an LHRH, and that is usually Lupron.

Sancarlos
Age 66
PC diagnosed 7/2009
Stage: T2c
Gleason: 9 (4 + 5), 6 of 6 cores positive
Bone, CAT and MIR scans negative

Treatment: brachytherapy (103 palladium), 100 gy, 11.15.2010 + hormone therapy (lupron) + IMRT on Novalis (February-March, 2010), 45 gy.

PSA at time of diagnosis: 11.9
PSA 10/2009, 5.0
PSA 12/2009, 0.56
PSA 5/2010, 0.15

zufus
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 3137
   Posted 8/10/2010 3:39 PM (GMT -6)   
A little PCa drug history would be injected right here:
Dr. Labrie (Canada) first doc to help get flutamides to USA (like casodex), prior to introduction of Lupron. Alot of patients used casodex as mono (primary) hormone therapy with good results. Basically has less nasty side effects than all the LHRH injection drugs, and you can have sex much easier while on casodex, a small token plus maybe not mentioned to often. Lylodd Ney founder of PAACTUSA.org (Patient advocates for advanced cancer treatments) in Michigan, failed radiations and had radiation issues, and long time fighter in this arena...was looking for drug therapies that might work on PCa...enter Dr. Labrie and Dr. Strum studied under Labrie and was helpful in getting Mr. Ney onto casodex and got good results in his treatments. Dr. Strum started off with Paact and later went off on his own PCa quest, but may contribute to their on going PCa newsletter (donation basis if you want them, well worth getting btw). Mr Ney fought his PCa battle something around 14-yrs.+, his in law is heading it up now Rick Profitt and will talk to you via phone for free.

Lupron appears to be the most profittable as docs office makes a killing on it (fyi), suspect that is number one reason it is used even over Zoladex, Precisis, Eligard, Trelstar LA etc.
Long term useage is associated with real bone density issues, that you the patient need to atleast acknowledge such. You can google lawsuits and read some fun things about these drug companies past with these, fyi.

One of my friends with one of the worst cases of PCa seen by Dr. Lee is using casodex and tamoxifen and getting fabulous results (fyi). He had to wear catheter for actually 6 months (the same one) the cancer was growing around it and would be painful to extract, that is why that got crazy. Anyway the onco doc knew too that this friend did not like the possible side effects of Lupron and so went with casodex, doc told him in advance that catheter will likely fall out on its own (as it shrinks the PCa) (he had PCa into the bladder confirmed by color doppler ultrasound). Well it did just that and now he is peeing normal and like a racehorse and has done so well, that he dropped all drugs and is monitoring 2 months thus far and psa has not moved from undetectable level and this is on casodex used for about 1 year. Go figure.
 
www.paactusa.org   (newsletters, information site, phone discussions see site)
Youth is wasted on the Young-(W.C. Fields)

Post Edited (zufus) : 8/11/2010 5:55:19 AM (GMT-6)


Sancarlos
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 242
   Posted 8/10/2010 10:04 PM (GMT -6)   
Zufus,

Thanks for the interesting history.

Profits is for sure why drug companies do business and both AstraZeneca, makers of Zoladex, and TAP Pharmaceuticals, makers of Lupron have had rulings against them in the last two years for attempting to manipulate prices. AstraZeneca was forced to pay $13 million in damages for manipulating the price of Zoladex.
http://www.bnet.com/blog/drug-business/az-loses-13m-zoladex-appeal-in-8220do-the-math-8221-case/3053

And TAP Pharmaceuticals, for its part, had a complaint dismissed in which it sought to challenge a Medicare
reimbursement policy that reduces the amount of reimbursement paid for Lupron to the amount paid for Zoladex.
http://ftp.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/163/163.F3d.199.97-2773.html

Sancarlos
Age 66
PC diagnosed 7/2009
Stage: T2c
Gleason: 9 (4 + 5), 6 of 6 cores positive
Bone, CAT and MIR scans negative

Treatment: brachytherapy (103 palladium), 100 gy, 11.15.2010 + hormone therapy (lupron) + IMRT on Novalis (February-March, 2010), 45 gy.

PSA at time of diagnosis: 11.9
PSA 10/2009, 5.0
PSA 12/2009, 0.56
PSA 5/2010, 0.15

FoxRun
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts : 612
   Posted Yesterday 9:01 AM (GMT -6)   
 One of the more interesting threads on Lupron and Libido. This being a year later, I'm wondering if you guys have anything else to share. 
 I guess the bottom line is that the ultimate goal is to starve the cancer cells and the only effective way to achieve that is to lower the T levels and apparently that means chemical castration levels. That unfortunately spells SEs and there's no easy way around that, unless you want to compromise your treatment.  cry   
Age 52
Stage T2c
Gleason grade 8-10
PSA level of 10.6 no symptoms whatsoever.
Ct scan and Bone scan negative
my diagnosis is considered a high risk disease and my treatment recommendations are
External Beam Radiation + Radiation Seed Implants + Hormone Treatment.
50mg of Bicalutamide tablets per day and I'm scheduled to get 22.5 mg Lupron Depot injections every 3 months
PSA value: 5.5 May 10,2011 after 10 days of 50mg of Bicalutamide

Todd1963
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 2241
   Posted Yesterday 3:12 PM (GMT -6)   
Most doctors tend to agree that lupron is the drig besr tolerated with the fewest amount of side effects. I have been on lupron now for 64 months on and off. During a one year lupron vacation my libido returned to normal. It has since left me again. Trimix enables me to achieve normal sexual function but my sweet wife has had to assume the role of initiator. I honestly have not experianced most of the above listed side effects and the ones that i did have faded over time. I did and do still have many other side effects not listed that concern me far worse than my moderate hot flashes and mild weight gain. 1 I really dig chick flicks and cry at the sappy parts. 2. I cant drive past a shoe sale without stopping. 3. I understand what my wife is talking about most of the time. 4. Ritchard Simmons no longer bothers me. 5. I have an overwhelming urge to take a class in interior decor. You can see where I am going wwith this. I wouldn't worry too much about it not working just yet
I was well into my seco.d injection before willy died. I hope this helps. Todd
dx:06/03/06
Age at dx: 42 age now 45
Treated for sciatic nerve pain 6 months prior to dx.
Heavy amount of blood in urine Unable to urinate 
Lung x-ray for pnumonia revealed multiple lesions in each lung
P.S.A. at time of dx. 3216.14
Began lupron and casodex
Cat scan showed large mass in the pelvic area affecting the bladder multiple nodules in both lungs and lymph node envolvement.
Bone scan revealed possible bone involvment in the pelvic area
Biopsy 12 of 12 cores positive gleason 3+4=7
P.S.A.s since lupron 2946, 1274, 532, 5.01 1.23, .09
Begining jan 08 psa .o9, .25, .44, .86, .73, 1.34, 1.49. Doubling time is a little over 3 months
Cat Scan 12/12/08 Prostate normal size and shape. No tumors detected. Left lung clear of all nodules right lung showing only benign scar tissue. Lymph nodes normal
Bone Scan 12/24/08. Clean!!! went off casodex January 4 2009
Current psa 2/13/09 .16
Latest P.S.A. 0.05 newest P.S.A. undetectable
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