There is nothing like a discussion of magical foods to bring me out of seclusion.
The people that push pom juice spent $20,000,000 on 50 studies. As one might expect, all of these industry financed studies found almost magical properties in pom juice.
http://www.smartmoney.com/spending/rip-offs/the-truth-behind-the-pomegranate-craze-22503/
Still, drinking it almost can't hurt you unless you have weight problems or diabetes. A single 8 oz glass has 30 grams of sugar, more, I think, than the FDA recommended limit.
The evidence that antioxidants prevent cancer, cure cancer or slow cancer is inconclusive at best. Studies have conflicting results. There are studies that suggest that some antioxidants may actually increase the risk of breast or lung cancer. Other studies suggest that antioxidants may reduce the intended effect of chemotherapy and radiation. I can dig up the links if needed.
I am trying to stick to a common sense diet; lower in fat than my usual southern diet and richer in yucky vegetables and a one a day vitamin occasionally.
Post Edited (James C.) : 12/19/2010 11:55:50 AM (GMT-7)
What would I know about anything. I am in the same boat as you ALL.
I see real scientific reports on Horphag Pycnogenol (Pine-Bark-Extract), and now on Pomegranate-Juice, and I simply ask - If the good Lord gave us "Good Foods - that heal us", then what is it within those foods that makes them GOOD. I look beyond the individual , to the whole ! We do have to accept that just like formal medications, approved by the FDA, natural healing, will not work the same for EVERYONE. So provided that it can't HURT, then it worth considering.
In EVERY case where formal study using Double-Blind or other testing are used, they declare that it is the "Anti-Oxidants, and the Bio-Flavorniods etc." that is doing the good. Does one then think that these materials are the ones doing the GOOD and accompanied by the nice taste of the original food..
If I then study other foods, (enter the ARS) then I find those same (but) untested materials in other foods, and I think - "well , if they have proved that these materials have the health-benefits suggested, then the same chemicals in a concentrated form MUST by definition, be even better."
"The way I read that, and the promoted 'Typical' ORAC values, then the Red Delicious apple is approaching twice as 'healthy' for ORAC vales as pom juice and approaching the same value of eating the pom's raw. If that is so, and apples equals pom's, in this case, then an apple would be much cheaper that the pom fruit and the juice, correct? If so, then attention needs to be moved to the healthy medical effect of the old saying- an apple a day keeps the doctor (and in this case, by inference- cancer) away. Does this reasoning fail somewhere along the line? If we consider the ORAC value as to some beneficial value, then it would seem so.?"
NOW - James C. - you know that I did not make up these figures and I included a variety to show that a Cucumber is barely worth the eating effort (but for the taste), and a Pecan Nut is very good for you. I am foolishly prepared to BELIEVE that if Formal study of concentrated "Pine-Bark-Tea" is far-far better than the tea itself, and if Pomegranate-Extract is far better than the Juice itself, then I AM prepared to consider that 'Green-Tea' extract is better than Green-tea, and 'Grape-Seed' extract is better than eating grapes, and that if I can buy a combination of MANY of these, in a single, affordable product, then , even without a full scientific double-blind test, then there HAS to be greater benefit. ENTER OPCXtra and my OCD obsession for it.. Don't stop at OPCXtra, there is just so many.. as I have repeatedly stated.. OPC-3, Resveratrols of many brands, Pycnogenol, etc.etc. but which of them carry pages of testimonials ?
NO - I am I NOT so crazy that I have them ALL lined up on the shelf, and I don't take each , just in case one or more has lied to me like the Pharma-Companies. I started on OPC-3 and have chosen OPCXtra.. I have felt the results within MY body. I have seen the results in many others. AND - I look forward to the planned inclusion of Pomegranate Extract, possibly within the next year.
YES - these guys are making MONEY from our missery.. BUT - the Pharma-Companies are making far, far more for drugs that we KNOW have serious side-effects, and we accept that, because the FDA has approved them.
There is NOTHING wrong with Pom-Juice. It has to be fantastic, but just as asprin has been concentrated from the Willow-Bark, so too do I want the BIG hit of concentrated extracts from as many discrete sources as I can. Will we ever see a similar study of Apple-Juice - I suspect not. Surely they can "STUDY" a few foods, work out what it is the is doing the Good-Stuff, and then measure the Good-Stuff in other foods
Call me OCD 'cause I bloody well am !
PS - Be sure to eat the ENTIRE apple, as the tiny amount of poison within the seed, is known to attach to Cancer calls by preference
PPS - Thanks to those who have emailed , confirming that THEY do believe.
PPPS -"and they have a very impressive antioxidant rating, higher that the well known levels in red wine, green tea, blueberries and cranberries. "
It's frustrating that some of the claims being made by the 'pushers' of these products, seem to conflict with what we could consider as science.. James.C picked up on the Apples, and then there is the Cranberries, which according to ARS, is twice as good as Pom-Juice.. I suppose that if the statement is correct that the Pom-Industry spent $20M promoting the industry, then you can understand why the Pom-Subject is so out front.. An extra benefit of the Extracts is that the Fructose has been removed and that is a whole new line -- Fructose and Cancer.. BlueBerries reads every bit as good as the Pom. I suppose that they need to also spend $20M on promotion for someone to act.
Just read the ARS and decide for yourself ! I notice not effect until after three months on OPC-3 and then OPCXtra...
.
Post Edited (BuiDoi) : 12/19/2010 2:24:18 PM (GMT-7)
Hi,
Here are a few I still have. I have a condition that gives me far bigger issues than PCa and I was convinced a few years ago to take variuos antioxidants to treat it. I was shown all the studies that supposedly proved their benefit. After about 2 years, I saw two definite results, I had less money and the practioners had more. My chronic pain level did not change.
I am not anti - pom. if you can afford $400 a year, it likely will do no harm. I just hate to see anyone believe in this stuff and give up traditional medicine.
http://tagza.com/Health_Fitness/Do_antioxidants_really_work__Dr-_Sean_Hashmi_M-D-_M-S-/
Folks - a researcher just sent me a copy of that 2007 investigation
For those interested - here are some chosen words from that report, that I mentioned.To those convinced that there is nothing being studied to indicate ANY benefit, then this might show that scientists do see serious application for these types of treatments.It is just such a shame that such investigation is left to academia, simply because the Big Pharma-Companies have NOTHING to make from such investigation.If anyone would like a copy of the whole report - Just email me...JOURNAL OF MEDICINAL FOODJ Med Food 10 (2) 2007, 337?344? Mary Ann Liebert, Inc. and Korean Society of Food Science and NutritionDOI: 10.1089/jmf.2006.292Comparison of the Total Oxyradical Scavenging Capacity and Oxygen RadicalAbsorbance Capacity Antioxidant AssaysDavid P. Tomer, Lee D. McLeman, Seiga Ohmine,Philip M. Scherer, Byron K. Murray, and Kim L. O?NeillDepartment of Microbiology and Molecular Biology, Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah..............., many antioxidants, such as green tea polyphenols, quercitin, and -lipoic acid, inhibit inflammation, angiogenesis, and metastasis.1,7?13 In addition, quercitin, green tea, and grape seed extract can modulate cellular proliferation, cell cycle arrest, and apoptosis.1,2,4,9,14?16 Green tea has also been implicated in the metabolism of carcinogens.14,16?18.........The ORAC assay is widely accepted for measuring the antioxidant activity of phytochemicals.24....................The phytochemicals analyzed in this study were (1) lemon fruit, (2) citrus bioflavonoids, (3) pomegranate, (4) grape seed extract, (5) pine bark theraplant, (6) quercitin, (7) maritime pine bark extract (Pycnogenol?, Horphag Research Ltd., Geneva, Switzerland), (8) grape skin extract, (9) rutin, (10) -lipoic acid, and (11) green tea polyphenols............Pomegranate, grape seed extract, and pine bark theraplant had moderately high TOSC values and moderately high ORAC values.DISCUSSIONThe measurement of antioxidant activity in vitro is the first step towards identifying the most promising phytochemicals for further in vivo testing. High antioxidant activity has previously been reported for the compounds quercitin and rutin, suggesting that they may be promisingantioxidants.19,31,34,35 The results of this study show quercitin to have moderately high antioxidant activity.This study found pomegranate to have moderately low antioxidant activity, while Pycnogenol had moderately high antioxidant activity (Fig. 1). Pomegranate contains three major anthocyanidins (pelargonidin, cyanidin, and delphinidin), as well as catechins and ellagic acid, which is why its low antioxidant activity was surprising.5,38 The water-soluble Pycnogenol (from fresh pine bark of Pinus maritima), however, consisted of condensed flavonoids (procyanidins and proanthocyanidins), as well as catechin, epicatechin, and taxifolin, which may explain why it exhibited higher antioxidant activity.6,39The in vitro assays mentioned in this study (Fig. 1) consistently suggest that quercitin, Pycnogenol, grape skin extract, and green tea polyphenols have much higher antioxidant activity than Trolox, a hydrophilic vitamin E analog. Alternatively, lemon fruit and citrus bioflavonoids have only low antioxidant activity.Phytochemical TOSC ORACLemon fruit 103 3,885Citrus bioflavonoids 446 7,410Pomegranate 1,543 22,530Grape seed extract 2,294 37,125Pine bark theraplant 2,608 59,483Quercitin 3,059 63,750Pycnogenol 3,154 53,970Grape skin extract 3,246 63,668
Post Edited (BuiDoi) : 12/19/2010 7:20:47 PM (GMT-7)
questionaboutit, this is something we strongly agree on...although I haven't seen anyone here at HW advocating the position you described.
In my humble opinion, anyone who uses only alternative medicine techniques (and completely foregoes traditional medical approaches such as surgery, radiation, HT, etc) to combat prostate cancer is foolish. At the same time, anyone who uses only traditional aggressive medical techniques (previously listed) without supplementing with integrative medicine techniques such as lifestyle changes (diet, exercise, stress reduction, etc) is also foolish.
Here's another way I've put this same point down on paper: It’s absolutely baffling to think about what people will subject themselves to (surgery, radiation, chemical/hormone treatment) to stop or slow their cancer growth while not undertaking the less radical steps that are within their direct control to slow their cancer growth and prolong life…like diet, nutrition, exercise, etc.
"Integrative Medicine." Here's a nice thread from Tony (link) where he presented a link to a doctor in his area who treats patients holistically, not just traditionally, to maximize the potential of their outcomes. Most major hospitals have programs now in Integrative Medicine. Your average dietician in the Mayberry Community Hospital probably doesn't know much about it, however.
But you know what? The fact is that integrative medicine is not for everyone. Some people simply have too much "momentum" going in their lives and they are simply not ready, willing or able to change...despite what they've been through fighting prostate cancer. Here's an interesting story on this topic told by Dr David Servan-Schreiber:
...By participating in certain programs...patients try to take charge of their cancer, to learn to live in greater harmony with their bodies and their past, to seek peace of mind through yoga and meditation, to choose foods that fight cancer while avoiding those that promote its development. Their case histories show that they live two or three times longer than the average person with the same cancer at the same stage of development. An oncologist friend at the University of Pittsburgh, whom I told about these figures, objected: "These aren't ordinary patients. They're better educated, more motivated, and in better health. The fact that they live longer doesn't prove anything." But that is precisely the point: If patients are better informed about their disease, if they look after body and mind, and if they are given what they need to improve their health, then they can mobilize the body's vital functions to fight cancer. They live better and for longer.
...By participating in certain programs...patients try to take charge of their cancer, to learn to live in greater harmony with their bodies and their past, to seek peace of mind through yoga and meditation, to choose foods that fight cancer while avoiding those that promote its development. Their case histories show that they live two or three times longer than the average person with the same cancer at the same stage of development.
An oncologist friend at the University of Pittsburgh, whom I told about these figures, objected: "These aren't ordinary patients. They're better educated, more motivated, and in better health. The fact that they live longer doesn't prove anything." But that is precisely the point: If patients are better informed about their disease, if they look after body and mind, and if they are given what they need to improve their health, then they can mobilize the body's vital functions to fight cancer. They live better and for longer.
That IS the point. Still, we hear people right here at HW who simply dig their heels further into the ground to resist change..."I'm gonna die someday anyhow, so gimme my Western diet staples of daily steak, white bread rolls and ice cream." These guys would fall, I suppose (accordding to Dr. Servan-Schreiber's characterization), into a "less informed, less empowered" patient category.
For those who are open to something new to help affect the course of their PC, earlier in this thread (on page 2) I offered a pomegranate serving suggestion (photo included). Tonight I have another festive (green & red) serving suggestion which I served tonight with our fish tacos: Pomegranate Guacamole. It was very good, and I have another photo...this photo I did take myself:
IMAGE
edit: fix typos; fixed IMAGE link
Post Edited (Casey59) : 12/21/2010 12:05:03 PM (GMT-7)
Post Edited (BillyMac) : 12/19/2010 10:13:53 PM (GMT-7)
Post Edited (BillyMac) : 12/20/2010 3:34:37 AM (GMT-7)
Post Edited (BuiDoi) : 12/20/2010 3:05:42 PM (GMT-7)
