Salvage Radiation Treatments - Water Intake

New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
31 posts in this thread.
Viewing Page :
 1  2 
[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> ]

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 24258
   Posted 1/22/2011 1:45 PM (GMT -6)   
Nice simple question, looking for nice simple answers
 
If you had Salvage Radiation or Adjuvant Radiation after Prostate Surgery, were you asked to drink water ahead of each treatment?  If so, how soon before each zapping?  How much water were you asked to drink?
 
As an optional question, were you told specifically why you needed to do so, and if so, why?
 
Really need some good input here.  Thanks in advance.
 
David in SC

Piano
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 845
   Posted 1/22/2011 2:31 PM (GMT -6)   
I didn't actually have radiation but remember discussing this with a radiation oncologist. They like to have bladder full and rectum empty as it keeps delicate parts that don't need to be radiated away from the radiation site.

If somebody who has actually had radiation answers, rely on their answer, rather than mine. An ounce of practise beats a pound of theory any day. :-)

compiler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 5217
   Posted 1/22/2011 2:36 PM (GMT -6)   
David:
 
I sent you an email
 
Mel

Jerry1
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 458
   Posted 1/22/2011 2:48 PM (GMT -6)   
 
David,
 
I was never asked to drink water, and did not during any of my 35 IMRT treatments.
 
Jerry1

Magaboo
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 1173
   Posted 1/22/2011 3:04 PM (GMT -6)   
I was ask to drink about 12-16oz of water about 30 min before
each session. They told me that it will help to keep non targeted
"things" out of the field of radiation.
David, hope you're feeling better these days.
All the best to you.

Mag
Born 1936
PSA 7.9, Gleason Score 3+4=7, 2 of 8 positive
open RP Nov 06, T3a, Gleasons 3+4=7, Seminal vesicles and lymph nodes clear
Catheter out 15 Dec 06, Dry since 11 Feb 07
All PSA tests in 2007 (4) <.04
PSA tests in 2008: Mar.=.04; Jun.=.05; Sept.=.08; at SRT Start=0.1,
Salvage RT completed (33 days-66Gy) 19 Dec 08
PSA: in Jan 09 =.05, all tests to date (Jan 11) <.04

Jakester
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 265
   Posted 1/22/2011 3:23 PM (GMT -6)   
I was told almost the same as Magaboo, I drank mostly about 20 oz of water during the 30 minute trip to radiation (and emptying my bladder before drinking and getting on the road). They told me it was so my bladder would lift my bowel. I asked several times if I was drinking enough after they viewed the ct image and was told only once I could stand to drink a bit more.

Take care,
Jake
Dx 8/08 Pre-op psa 4.2, Age 60, 7 of 12 biopsies positive 3+3
DaVinci LRP 11/08, - margins, - EPE, vascular or perineural. Gleason 3+4=7, 5-10% of 4.
3 mo psa .1 2/09, 6 mo .1 5/09, 9 mo .2 8/09
broke ankle bones 6/09, 9/21/09 Bone scan clear, psa still .2
01/05/10 psa .3, SRT 01/19/10 start 39 sessions 70.2gy, psa @ 6 wks into IMRT .4; Post SRT psa @ 10 wks (5/10) .2, @20 wks .1, @8 mo still .1

NCOBJIM
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2010
Total Posts : 28
   Posted 1/22/2011 4:05 PM (GMT -6)   

38 IMRT treatments. Was told bladder must be full & bowel empty or they would not continue. Therapists checked everytime. Drank 16 oz of water 30 minutes before procedure. Was good for about 1 hour so i am glad everthing was always on time.

PSA 0.4 before & 0.02 after IMRT. Still holding good.

 


larryandangieohio
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 44
   Posted 1/22/2011 4:19 PM (GMT -6)   
David,

They have me drink 24 ounces of water one hour prior in order to lift the bladder out of the way of the treatment. They also have me on a low fiber diet and ask that I try to empty my bowels prior to treatment. I originally had a CT scan done before the treatments started that they use as a guide for alignment and marks on both sides and under my belly button. Once I'm on the table, they align the marks with the crosshairs of the machine and then do a CT scan that is matched/compaired with the original. I was told that is how they make certain they only hit the tatget area.

I just finished my sixth of thirty three treatments on Friday. So far so good, no side effects! No pain involved at all and each treatment only takes 10 to 15 mins.

142
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 5902
   Posted 1/22/2011 4:37 PM (GMT -6)   
Original order was 500ml at 45 minutes before treatment. That was more than I could manage without a trip to the can or major leak, so they backed it down to 35-40 minutes before.
 
It was to get the bladder out of the way.

dsmc
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 147
   Posted 1/22/2011 4:41 PM (GMT -6)   
I was told to have a full bladder and empty bowel.
They would do the ct scan for alignment and check bladder and bowel.
This was to keep things out of the radiation field.
24 oz. 1/2 to 1 hour ahead of time.

David I hope you are doing better. I am here everyday to see whats going on and I know you have been through the ringer.

My psa is still holding @ <0.04 and I am 2 yrs. out now.

later

David
Age 55
Pre-op PSA 4.3
Surgery Feb. 17 2005
Post-op Path : Gleason 3+3=6
Right pelvic lymph nodes: negative for metastatic carcinoma
Left pelvic lymph nodes: negative for metastatic carcinoma
extent: right lobe 40% left lobe 10%
capsular penetration: Absent
Seminal vesicles and vasa differentia: Uninvolved
Prostate: 26 grams
Post-op PSA's <0.04 for 3 years
Feb. 08: 0.07, March 08: 0.08, June 08: 0.09 and Sept. 08: 0.1
IGRT scheduled.....November 17th....
FINISHED 01/14/09
05/14/09
1st PSA after SRT <0.04
12/03/09
2nd PSA after SRT <0.04
06/03/10
3rd PSA after SRT <0.04

Fairwind
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 2349
   Posted 1/22/2011 4:50 PM (GMT -6)   
Answer: YES.. 16 ounces water taken 1/2 hour before treatment, changed to 1 hour before..

Reason given: We want your bladder to be as full as possible without discomfort during treatment.

Question: "Why?" Having the bladder full lifts the bladder up a little and lessens it's exposure to the beam. Also, the water (urine) absorbs some of the radiation and that helps protect the bladder lining from irritation...

Also: Try to have a BM 1 hour before treatment if you can..Having your rectum / colon empty helps lessen it's exposure...

Question: "Should I take an emema?" Answer: No, that's not necessary..

Hopes this helps...

Sonny3
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 2153
   Posted 1/22/2011 4:56 PM (GMT -6)   
David,

No instructions to drink water before treatment. I asked the doc about it because you were going through rad and mentioned your doc telling you to drink. Mine said that it was not part of their treatment philosophy.

As far as I know I have not suffered any effects because of the lack of drinking.

Sonny
60 years old - PSA 11/07 3.0 PSA 5/09 6.4
da Vinci 9/17/09
Post Surgery Pathology: GS 4+3=7
Stage: T3a
Tumor Volume 12.5% positive margin, extra-prostatic extension
30 day PSA 0.4, 50 day psa 0.53, 64 day psa 0.6
IMRT completed 1/15/10 35 treatments- 70Gy
2/23/10 Post IMRT PSA 1.0
3/22/10 PSA 1.5
4/19/10 PSA 1.2
5/22/10 PSA 1.3
8/9/10 Completed Radiation for MET
9/7/10 PSA 2.2
1/5/11 PSA 3.9

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 24258
   Posted 1/22/2011 5:22 PM (GMT -6)   
Thank you, guys. I knew I could some straight answers out of you on this subject, so far, injesting water before being zapped is the norm. Appreciate all of your replies.

David
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 11/10 Not taking it
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/23/10

compiler
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 5217
   Posted 1/22/2011 5:27 PM (GMT -6)   
The part that worries me is the empty bowel requirement. Mine does not always behave the way I want it to.
 
However, when I brought that issue up to the radiologist, he did not seem that concerned.
 
Mel

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 24258
   Posted 1/22/2011 5:31 PM (GMT -6)   
Mel, got your email, will answer seperately but your hunch is right on.
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 11/10 Not taking it
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/23/10

BobCape
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 416
   Posted 1/22/2011 6:14 PM (GMT -6)   
As I just happened to mention on post earlier today:

One thing that has been mentioned to me matter of factly is, come with your bladder full. They simply didn't mention it to me until 2-3 sessions in, and then as an aside. I guess it helps drop your bladder down via the gravity, keeping it further away from the rad.

The mentioned again yesterday "they DID tell you to fill your bladder?"..

If that is important, it should be treated accordingly by the ead onc team, I think. It should be mandatory discussion AND there should be a fountain in the waiting room.

Sorry if I went off base in replying here.

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 24258
   Posted 1/22/2011 7:03 PM (GMT -6)   
good answer, bob cape, thanks
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 11/10 Not taking it
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/23/10

John T
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 3732
   Posted 1/22/2011 8:25 PM (GMT -6)   
I had to drink 32 oz and if the CT scan did not show a full bladder I had to drink more. I started 40 min before every treatment. The Tech drew a picture of an empty bladder and a full bladder and indicated where the radiation would hit it. A full bladder receives much less radiation than an empty bladder. It was obvious once I saw the picture.
JT
65 years old, rising psa for 10 years from 4 to 40; 12 biopsies and MRIS all negative. Oct 2009 DXed with G6 <5%. Color Doppler biopsy found 2.5 cm G4+3. Combidex clear. Seeds and IMRT, no side affects and psa .1 at 1.5 years.

Willie B
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 155
   Posted 1/22/2011 9:47 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Purgatory,

Willie was asked to come with a full bladder and an empty bowel.

He was told to take a mild laxative in the evening to ensure 'results' and to not pee but drink en route, as he had early appointments.

Once, when his bladder wasn't full enough, he was told to drink a bit more, then radiated.

We understood that it was to keep his radiation damage to a minimum but don't recall the exact wording given.

He had radiation, 5 days a week for 8 weeks. Not sure of the gys. but around 72 or so.

Mary

tigre
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 69
   Posted 1/23/2011 8:36 PM (GMT -6)   
i wasn't given a specific amount to drink but   told that my bladder needed to be as full as i could hold for each treatment. the reason was as the bladder is full it makes the prostate bed more accessible for rt.  this was really interesting in my case as i drove about an hour to each treatment and started drinking water about 45 min. early. if they didn't hurry and take me in i had to pee and start over. usually only drank about 24 oz. or so. fortunately for me i had rt at RCOG and they were great. if i arrived early they did all they could to get me in early. had a couple of real close calls but never wet the radiation table. 

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 24258
   Posted 1/23/2011 9:07 PM (GMT -6)   
thanks one and all, appreciate the first hand data!
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 11/10 Not taking it
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/23/10

pasayten
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 390
   Posted 1/24/2011 2:47 AM (GMT -6)   
David,
 
As with most of the others, I was told to come in with a full bladder.    Nothing about bowels.  I was told it was to help lift the blader out of the way of the radiation field.  They asked me each time I came in to verify that my bladder was full or near full.  Water was available near the waiting area.
 
I had no effects on my bladder or urinary track thru and after the SRT process of 32 treatments of 2 gys each for 64 gys.
 
pasayten
3/2007 - Dx 59 y/o - 12 point biopsy - Left 0/6 Right 1/6 Gleason 3+3 T1c
4/2007 - DaVinci RRP performed - Gleason 6 T2c Nx Mx
PSA 7/07 0.01, 6/08 0.02, 12/08 0.03, 10/09 0.13
11/09 Consult BCR and rec for SRT
1/2010 IMRT SRT - 32 sessions 2 gys for 64 gys total.
6/2010 3 mth PSA post SRT 0.02
1/2011 10 mth PSA 0.01
My Extended Signature

Baptista
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 82
   Posted 1/24/2011 4:13 AM (GMT -6)   

Hi David

Before any section (one hour) I was recommended to drink enough water (500ml) to fill my bladder. The intent was to “fix” the bladder and avoid movements. It also perfects the rounds (concave shape) so that rays can better avoid its walls. All in all, it will avoid risky radiation to the bladder.

There is a booklet in digital from the National Cancer Institute named “Radiation Therapy & You” with instructions on what to drink or eat, etc. Have a look in this site;

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/radiation-therapy-and-you/page11

 

Hope it helps.

Baptista


Age: 50 at Dx on May/2000; PSA=22.4;
6x cores biopsy positive; Gleason score (2+3=5)
RP in Aug/2000, PSA=24.2
Negative S-vesicles & lymph node (9); capsular penetration
Voluminous Adenocarcinoma, well-differentiated, Gs (3+2=5); pT3apN0
Post-op lowest PSA=0.18 on Oct/2000; Classified as Micro Metastasis
Jan/2001 PSA=0.26 Biochemical recurrence
AS (Watchful W.) until PSA=3.80 on Oct/2006; MRI & Bone scan negative
Nov/2006 SRT (3D IMRT; 68Gy / 37 fractions)
Feb/2008 lowest nPSA=0.05
May/2009 PSA=0.26 Biochemical recurrence
Oct/2010 PSA=0.95 (doubling at 9.6 months)
Nov/2010 ADT Cyproterone 100mg/day + Eligard 45mg 6-month depot
Asymptomatic, never incontinent, ED since RP

English Alf
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 2086
   Posted 1/24/2011 5:31 AM (GMT -6)   
Yes told to drink beforehand, and told several times by several different people, even the uro told me when he gave me a brief explanation after telling me he was going to refer me to the RT department.

I was not only told, I was also given these instructions in writing (in Dutch of course)

Also given them before I even had the CT scan to plan the RT. (During RT one of the things the doc also told me was that while having a full bladder was important it was also important that it was about as full as it had been during the CT to make sure that as much as possible was in the same position inside me.

Instructions translated read:
One hour before your CT scan empty your bladder then drink 350ml of water (half a pint) Also one hour before every treatment session you should also drink 350ml of water after having emptied your bladder.

(Before my CT scan I was given the guided tour of the department and a long explanation of what to expect and the lady I spoke to checked her watch halfway through and them brought me two beakers of water to make sure I had drunk water.)

Those Instructions also said:
To ensure the bowels are also empty during CT and RT five days before the CT you should start taking Magnesium oxide tablets (as per doctor's instructions) and continue to take them during the RT. Should the tablets have too much of a laxative effect tell the doc and the dose can be reduced or stopped.

I was also given dietary instructions to reduce the amount of gas in my gut.

Purpose of water, tablets and diet was explained as a means to make everything move to and stay in the best possible place for the RT to be most effective. ie so it would hit the target and not the healthy tissue nearby. Also diet was to make the gut stay as still as possible so that bowel did not move around during treatments and get in the way of rays.

Even if I felt like I had not perhaps drunk enough and that my bladder might not be as full as it needed to be the fact that I always had to rush to the bathroom after each session showed that I had indeed been zapped with plenty of pee in me, though it did seem like the quantity was not necessarily the same each day.

Two other points worth mentioning in this context.
The patient before me didn't show up one day so they offered me my session about 25 minutes early. I mentioned not having a full bladder while they were setting up and they immediated aborted the session till the correct time.

Secondly: when one of the pre-treatment x-rays showed that something inside me had moved they recalcualted the treatment plan. And they described this in terms of whatever it was having moved a couple of millimetres.

It is, as you may recall, a busy cancer centre and in and around the RT department I always saw (and still see) people with bottles of water, and looking like they were/are drinking it when they are not thirsty too.

I won't guess why you're asking David, but...

So all the best
Alf

gibson00
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 200
   Posted 1/24/2011 8:16 AM (GMT -6)   
My father, who had IMRT as part of his primary treatment, was told to drink water before each treatment. He had a SP catheter at the time, so would drink a glass of water and pinch off the catheter until after the treatment.
And my understanding was that with the machine they were using, they could see whether or not anything was still 'in the way' before they started each treatment.
Father 65 y/o at diagnosis November 2009
Gleason 9 & 10, stage 3 - seminal vesicle involvement
Two TURPs mid Nov. 2009
Foley Catheter
Casodex for last two weeks of November '09, then Lupron.
Suprapubic Catheter March 18th, but blocked right away, back to Foley...
Started IMRT March 25th, Chemo on hold due to catheter bleeding issues, etc.
Ended IMRT and Chemo (Taxotere) late May
Mid-July - pain finally better controlled with Fentanyl patch
Late July - Superpubic Cath. removed, peeing normal again
July 21 - PSA .21
New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
31 posts in this thread.
Viewing Page :
 1  2 
Forum Information
Currently it is Tuesday, October 21, 2014 12:17 AM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 2,247,313 posts in 250,000 threads.
View Active Threads


Who's Online
This forum has 157399 registered members. Please welcome our newest member, haergerg.
320 Guest(s), 6 Registered Member(s) are currently online.  Details
Stephanie2014, Tigerfan53, Sherrine, lesweet1971, jf0310, Oranged


Follow HealingWell.com on Facebook  Follow HealingWell.com on Twitter  Follow HealingWell.com on Pinterest  Follow HealingWell.com on YouTube
Advertisement
Advertisement

©1996-2014 HealingWell.com LLC  All rights reserved.

Advertise | Privacy Policy & Disclaimer