Grape Seed Extract

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medved
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Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 968
   Posted 3/7/2011 10:15 AM (GMT -7)   
I post this question with some trepidation because discussion of supplements on this board tends, for whatever reason, to elicit strong reactions.  But, in any event...  have any of you discussed with a doctor the use of grape seed extract for benefits it may have relating to prostate cancer (or other health benefits)?  Some links below to studies suggesting it may have a benefit in preventing/slowing prostate cancer, and other cancers. 
 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2728696/

 

 http://www.prostate.net/2011/nutrition/grapes-may-help-fight-prostate-cancer/

 

 

Post Edited (medved) : 3/7/2011 9:29:38 AM (GMT-7)


F8
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Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3279
   Posted 3/7/2011 10:33 AM (GMT -7)   
i take a daily dose of OPCxtra  which has several extracts including grape seed.
 
ed
 
age: 55
PSA on 12/09: 6.8
gleason 3+4 = 7
HT, BT and IGRT
received 3rd and last lupron shot 9/14/10
2/8/11 PSA <.1, T= 6 ng/dl

don826
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 781
   Posted 3/7/2011 10:52 AM (GMT -7)   
I take a number of supplements but have not used GSE. The problem I have is finding information on what is a therapeutic dose. In the abstracts here it is not noted or at least in the one I read. In most cases taking one pill a day is not going to do much. For instance, modified citrus pectin is therapeutic at 5 grams per day based on what I have read. That is a lot of pills. I do believe there is some value in supplements as a number of medicines are plant based. Taxol comes to mind. Just need the right concentration in the body.
 
Don

Worried Guy
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Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3278
   Posted 3/7/2011 11:00 AM (GMT -7)   
I read the first link about grape seed extracts and grape products published by NIH. Just what I need - more justification to have a glass of wine with dinner. ;-)
Age: 58, Mar 35 yrs, 56 dx, PSA: 4/09 17.8 6/09 23.2
Biopsy: 6/09 7 of 12 Pos, 20-70%, Gleason 4+3 Bone, CT Neg
DaVinci RP: 7/09, U of Roch Med Ctr
Path Rpt: Gleas 3+4, pT3aNOMx, 56g, Tumor 2.5x1.8 cm both lobes and apex
EPE present, PNI extensive, Sem Ves, Vas def clear, Lymph 0/13
Incont: 200ml/day ED: Trimix
Post Surg PSA: 10/09 .04, 4/10 .04, 7/10 <0.01, 12/10 <0.01
AdVance Sling 1/10/11

medved
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Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 968
   Posted 3/7/2011 11:11 AM (GMT -7)   
WG: I had the same reaction. I have a glass or two of red wine every night, so maybe I am getting my fill of grape. Don's issue about therapeutic dose is a good one. Unfortunately, I am not going to get good guidance on this from my doctors, as they are not knowledgeable about supplements.
Age 47. Father died of p ca.
My psa starting age 40: 1.4, 1.3, 1.43, 1.74, 1.7, 1.5, 1.5

Casey59
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Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 3172
   Posted 3/7/2011 11:27 AM (GMT -7)   
medved said...
...have any of you discussed with a doctor the use of grape seed extract for benefits it may have relating to prostate cancer (or other health benefits)? 
 
Yes.
 
My surgeon provided a detailed packet (plus some discussion) about living a long, healthy life after surgery.  Nutrition and exercise were heavily stressed, including the recognition that more men with prostate cancer die from heart disease than die from prostate cancerHis guidance included a glass of red wine per day.
 
I was only an occasional wine drinker before PC.  If I were to look back at 2011 so far, I would say I average one glass with dinner or afterwards on probably 5, sometimes 6, days per week...maybe once per week it turns into two glasses.  (Saturday, at a dinner party, it was about three glasses too many...which led to no exercise on Sunday.)
 
thanks for the links...

mjluke
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 187
   Posted 3/7/2011 12:32 PM (GMT -7)   
medved said...
I post this question with some trepidation because discussion of supplements on this board tends, for whatever reason, to elicit strong reactions.  But, in any event...  have any of you discussed with a doctor the use of grape seed extract for benefits it may have relating to prostate cancer (or other health benefits)?  Some links below to studies suggesting it may have a benefit in preventing/slowing prostate cancer, and other cancers. 
 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2728696/

 

 http://www.prostate.net/2011/nutrition/grapes-may-help-fight-prostate-cancer/

 

  
Hey Medved:
 
Some people drink their own urine and attest to the cancer-fighting benefits of same, with studies as back-up- no kidding- google it and see.
 
Grape seed extract may provide some general health benefits- who knows?- will it specifically prevent or slow prostate cancer- I doubt it.
 
Notwithstanding our ongoing search for solutions and ammunition to fight this dreaded and elusive intruder that has entered our bodies, I think that at times we need to step back and think hard about these simple and sometimes expensive remedies- snake oil for sure. 
 
 Oops, here we go again.

 
63 years old-tumor discovered on digital exam- biopsy December 2008-
4 of 12 samples positive-all on right side
Gleason 3+3=6
PSA-3
Otherwise excellent health.
Brachytherapy- May 19, 2009 -so far, so good.
 
  "There may come a day when the courage of men will fail, but it will not be this day."

medved
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 968
   Posted 3/7/2011 1:20 PM (GMT -7)   
<Some people drink their own urine and attest to the cancer-fighting benefits of same, with studies as back-up- no kidding- google it and see.>
 
I guess I am personally less interested in whether some people drink their own pee (or engage in coprophilia, or suffer from Renfield's syndrome), and more interested in whether there are some people who die from metastatic prostate cancer who could have avoided or materially delayed that fate by taking certain natural compounds and supplements.
 
If your standard is "medical certainty" then you would not bother with any of this.  But for many of us that is not the standard, and instead we are willing to do some things if there is a reasonable chance -- based on some scientific evidence --that  they will help, and do not have known adverse consequences.

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 24336
   Posted 3/7/2011 1:44 PM (GMT -7)   
I think its in that category: if you want to take it, and its not going to hurt you, and you think its going to help, then take it.

Can only speak for my own doctors, but I have found that my current team is very knowledgable about supplements and vitamins, they for the most part, don't see enough "medical certainty" to promote their use. But that is probably expected from doctors in general.

David

PS The wine bit, I often wonder if I have shortened my own life in general by being a total abstainer for the past 38 years. I understood, that the GSE gave you the benefits from red wine, but without drinking it.
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 2/11 1.24
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/10,

F8
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3279
   Posted 3/7/2011 2:02 PM (GMT -7)   
David -- i don't drink either.  that's how i justify spending that whopping $35 for a 90-day supply of OPCxtra cool .
 
ed
age: 55
PSA on 12/09: 6.8
gleason 3+4 = 7
HT, BT and IGRT
received 3rd and last lupron shot 9/14/10
2/8/11 PSA <.1, T= 6 ng/dl

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 24336
   Posted 3/7/2011 2:22 PM (GMT -7)   
ed,

your 35 bucks isnt bad at all, most any one that drinks wine everyday is going to spend more than that in a month, even if they stick to the cheap generic $3 wines sold in places like Walmart.

when any of the men in my family drank, it turned them into mean, raging violent creatures. my late father included. when i was single and drinking, i become the same way. i quit cold turkey, the year before i got married, and have never had a drop since. not so much a moral thing with me, or even a health matter, i didn't want to be that other person.

i am told you still get the exact same health advantage of red wine by drinking dark grape juice, i think others use the wine as excuse for drinking in general, but that's cool too.

david
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos marg
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06 2/11 1.24
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/10,

F8
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3279
   Posted 3/7/2011 2:26 PM (GMT -7)   
David -- raging alcholism runs in my family too.  i was fortunate that i was able to quit some 21 years ago. the problem i have with all the juices is the hassle of buying them, the taste, cost and all the calories.  the supplements i take are almost calories free and i pop them in the morning with my other pills.  it's just a lot less hassle for me.
 
ed
age: 55
PSA on 12/09: 6.8
gleason 3+4 = 7
HT, BT and IGRT
received 3rd and last lupron shot 9/14/10
2/8/11 PSA <.1, T= 6 ng/dl

MiraBeau
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2011
Total Posts : 42
   Posted 3/7/2011 2:51 PM (GMT -7)   
I say if it doesn't hurt you in any way, go for it. Add it to your regimen, one less thing to worry about. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

MiraBeau
58 yr. old husband dx with PC in Dec.2010
PSA 139.9
Gleason Score 9 (5+4)
Biopsy 12 of 12 cores positive, majority 100%
Stage T3a N0 M0
Treatment HT and IMRT

Casey59
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 3172
   Posted 3/7/2011 3:26 PM (GMT -7)   
Nice point, MiraBeau.


The red/purple grape juices contain the antioxidant flavonoids & resveratrol, which have been shown in cell studies to not only bolster immune defense, but also reduce tumor incidence and stall growth of many cancer cells. Once you realized that your body undergoes a constant, on-going battle to balance between it's immune system and cancer cells in your body now, you might be thinking that steps to tip the odds in your favor might be appropriate.

Of course, red wine is made from these same grapes. Wine and grape juice have close to the same amounts of antioxidants (although less than pomegranate juice). If I was pinching pennies, I would opt for the grape juice instead of wine, as it is a bit cheaper (although some pretty cheap wines could also be found, I guess).
 
 
 
 
 
edt:  typo

Post Edited (Casey59) : 3/7/2011 3:07:07 PM (GMT-7)

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