"Dr. Samadi has performed over 3,500 successful surgeries" - "a cure rate of 97 perce

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BobCape
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Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 416
   Posted 7/27/2011 11:10 AM (GMT -6)   
I just dont get how they can say that...
 
This was in a press release about "Post Robotic Prostate Surgery Continence and Pelvic Floor Muscles" - which may bof of interest to some here.
 
But how can they claim over "3,500 successful surgeries' - Do they mean the patient didn't die during or from surgery. I mean really.
 
And "a cure rate of 97" ? What does he do, only perform surgery on those who DONT have PCA?
 
 
 

142
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Total Posts : 5908
   Posted 7/27/2011 11:24 AM (GMT -6)   
"Ninety-six percent of Dr. Samadi's patients regain urinary continence and 87 percent regain sexual function in a year or less after the surgery."
 
I would like to see the details, and know exactly what the definitions of "sexual function" and "urinary continence" are.
 
I know I am looking for "successful" to include absolutely "Leak Free Pad Free" as the definition of urinary continence (i.e. once that is declared, I should never have to buy a single pad ever again). Yeah, I know - not going to happen, but would be nice.
 
 

Worried Guy
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Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 3246
   Posted 7/27/2011 11:41 AM (GMT -6)   
It all in the definition. 97% success can mean people were alive to go home the next day. or did not have Biochemical recurrence at one year mark.

On the other hand it could mean " Only 3% of Dr Samadi's patients die on the table or have Biochemical recurrence at one year."

It can also mean business is slowing down or it was time for the 6 month press release.

Jeff

BobCape
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Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 416
   Posted 7/27/2011 11:58 AM (GMT -6)   
Slowing down?

If he did 1 a day it would take him 10 years to get to 3,500, and that would be doing them 7 days a week.

ChrisR
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Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 716
   Posted 7/27/2011 12:22 PM (GMT -6)   
Once again I am sure someone in the press took what he said out of context and then misprinted even that information.   I really don't believe Samadi would make that statement.  I think this is just another case of the the reporter being an idiot like all the others...

BobCape
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 416
   Posted 7/27/2011 12:34 PM (GMT -6)   
Chris. It's HIS news release.

Trepidation
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Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 173
   Posted 7/27/2011 12:43 PM (GMT -6)   
That alone should tell you about the Dr's character IMO.

F8
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Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3247
   Posted 7/27/2011 1:37 PM (GMT -6)   
>> I think this is just another case of the the reporter being an idiot like all the others...<<
 
if any one else called samadi an idiot you'd report them and have a conniption fit cool .
 
ed
 
 
age: 56
PSA on 12/09: 6.8
gleason 3+4 = 7
HT, BT and IGRT
received 3rd and last lupron shot 9/14/10
2/8/11 PSA <.1, T= 6 ng/dl
6/8/11 PSA .2, T = 540 ng/dl!

Snowbound
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2011
Total Posts : 208
   Posted 7/27/2011 1:40 PM (GMT -6)   
My aim isn't to pick on Dr. Samadi, it's sounds like he's very good at what he does. This thread made me curious about his numbers so I was searching to see if he defined his rates anywhere and I noticed that they vary.
 
For example, in February of this year his success rate was only 95%, his continance rate was slightly better at 97% vs. 96% and his sexual function potency was much lower at 81% vs. 87%.
 
 
The more interesting bit of info, at the time he had performed 3,200 surgeries.  That's a difference of 300 over roughly 5 months. That's hard to believe so I back to an October press release that was a little most specific;
 
"To date, Dr. Samadi has performed over 2,100 robotic laparoscopic prostate surgeries, and the results are very pleasing for his patients. Since his arrival at Mount Sinai School of Medicine in May 2007, he has successfully performed over 500 robotic prostatectomy surgeries, averaging 40-50 new cases per month" 
Age 50
PSA 5.43 at June 2010 physical
Biopsy: 8 of 12 samples positive, 75% in 1 core. Gleason 7
Radical Prostatectomy 12/3/2010
DIC complications during surgery (17 units blood/plasma)
Pathology: 3.5cm tumour, no capsular invasion, lymph nodes negative
Catheter removed 12/26/2011
PSA currently undetectable!

daveshan
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 363
   Posted 7/27/2011 1:40 PM (GMT -6)   
IMO the ONLY definition of "successful" is the trifecta,

1. Continent enough to not have to wear pads. Time frame flexible but I'd consider 6mos with 1 year max
2. Able to perform to mutual satisfaction with minimal/no meds.
3. No BCR for the rest of the patient's natural lifespan.

" Cure Rate" really can only have one definition, NO BCR for the rest of the patient's natural life span. Don't know how anyone can claim any percentage without finagling that one. BCR at any time = not cured.
Dave in Durango CO

07-06 PSA 2.5
01-08 PSA 5.5 (Dr never told me)
09-09 PSA 6.5 (age 55)
12-09 Biopsy, initial Gleason 9 (4+5) later reduced to 8 with tertiary 5
03-01-10 Age 55 RRP in Durango CO by Dr Sejal Quale and Dr Shandra Wilson
03-16-10 Path' G-8 (4+4+5) Bilateral involving 21% of left lobe, 3% of right lobe, SVI, Focal positive margin, pT3b NO MX

All PSA as of 5-03-11 <0.04

davidg
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Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 4093
   Posted 7/27/2011 2:34 PM (GMT -6)   
Samadi does 15 a week basically.

I never needed to wear a pad. I only had a few squirts four weeks out of surgery when doing weights. Not a single drop since and I'm 8 months aout.

I have sex with and without Cialis. Get a bigger bang with cialis but that gap is also closing every week. People who say things progress systematically in the first two years are right.

I know quite a lot of Samadi patients and they share my same story.

When I left for Rome two weeks ago I emailed everyone in my address book to give them my new email and he was the first to answer me. He's a wonderful surgeon.

I don't know anything about cure and what it means. I live from psa test to psa test always expecting the worse. It's not easy. But I know I chose wisely when I selected Dr. Samadi.
40 years old - Diagnosed at 40
Robotic Surgery Mount Sinai with Dr. Samadi Jan, 2011
complete urinary control and good erections with and without meds
Prostate was small, 34 grams.
Final Gleason score 7 (3+4)
Less than 5% of slides involved tumor
Tumor measured 5 mm in greatest dimension and was located in the right lobe near the apex.
Tumor was confined to prostate.
The apical, basal, pseudocapsular and soft tissue resection margins were free of tumor.
Seminal vesicles were free of tumor.
Right pelvic node - benign fibroadiopse tissue. no lymph node is identified.
Left pelvic node - one small lymph node, negative for tumor (0/1)

AJCC stage: pT2 NO MX

Trepidation
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 173
   Posted 7/27/2011 4:48 PM (GMT -6)   
Didn't Dr. Samadi do a video about doing 5 procedures a day?  I'll look for it if anyone wants it. Just asking.

clocknut
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 2317
   Posted 7/27/2011 4:58 PM (GMT -6)   
Haven't we heard enough about the good Dr. Samadi already? 

60Michael
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 1821
   Posted 7/27/2011 5:11 PM (GMT -6)   
Sounds like a great Dr, but I am skeptical of the numbers. Might have chosen him if I lived in that area.
Michael
Dx with PCA 12/08 2 out of 12 cores positive 4.5 psa
59 yo when diagnosed, 61 yo 2010
Robotic surgery 5/09
Gleason upgraded to 3+5, volume less than 10%
2 pads per day, 1 depends but getting better,
started ED tx 7/17, slow go
Post op dx of neuropathy
T2C left lateral and left posterior margins involved
3 months psa.01, 6 month psa.4
Started IMRT Jan. 2010 72gys
7month post SRT PSA.27

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 24271
   Posted 7/27/2011 5:56 PM (GMT -6)   
bob cape and 142, i would love for dr. spam to have to prove the statements he made, and the questions you two brought up. this doctors constant self-promotion and bragging is deeply disturbing to me. wish he was forced to prove these unbelievable claims of his. i don't know if he's a brilliant surgeon or not, he may very well be, but the rest of his stunts to me speaks low of his character. plus, speaking only for myself, i don't like this whole idea of a surgery mill.

among our own small group here at HW, look at the wide results we get with surgery guys, the side effects and quality of life issues vary so much from patient to patient. this whole biz of claiming 97% cure is almost obscene by itself. yes, what is his definition of a cure? on incontinence, to me, the standard should be no leaks, no pads, no drips, at least back to where you were before you were operated on. same with ED, if you didn't have any ED to start, to make his claim, then you shouldnt need ED drugs and pumps or injections when you are healed and cured by him. Are these the standards that he goes by? Kind of doubt that by sheer logic alone.

i prefer the humble doctors, the one's that dont need the constant pat on the backs and self-promotion personally.

david in sc
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06, 2/11 1.24, 4/11 3.81, 6/11 5.8
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/10

BobCape
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 416
   Posted 7/27/2011 6:11 PM (GMT -6)   
I started this thread.
I get Google email Updates on all things prostate.
Hence, this is in my email in-box.
Samadi is insignificant to me, other than to honor him for being involved in the busiess of helping people live their lives. I understand he might be among thr best of the best.

His talent as a doctor isn't what prompted me to comment on this news release that found it's way into my in-box.

My motivation in bringing it up again is that the impact ON FOLKS WHO HAVE YET TO MAKE THEIR DECISIONS is effected when they hear a certain person has a 97% cure rate. And I also worry thatsome might turn this into a numbers game (3,500 means he DOESN'T REMEMBER YOUR NAME A MONTH LATER!!!!!).

Ultimately, I dont think that a press release claiming that level of success is fair to the young and old men who may be about to make the most difficult choice in their life, especially the QUARTER OF A MILLION men who will be told they have prostate cancer this year, and will have to SETTLE for a different doctor.. while knowing that the OTHER doctor cures 97% of his patients.

So Clocknut, to your point... if it's in my email box it could be in my son's email box. And if, god forbid, he has pca, then I dont want him looking at those claims as if they are realistic. Because they're not.

Bob Cape

John T
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 3732
   Posted 7/27/2011 6:33 PM (GMT -6)   
If we compare this doctor to the two most noted surgeons in the US we can see why many dispute his claims. Walsh's published cure rate is 85%, and it is said that he operates only on lower risk patients. Scardino's trifecta record is 64%. Samadi must be superman to achieve the results he claims. His claimes are so far out of the high range of the norm that they are laughable.
JT

clocknut
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 2317
   Posted 7/27/2011 6:36 PM (GMT -6)   
Good point, Bob.  Those of  us who've been on the site for a while have sort of talked this guy to death, but new people are always coming on board and his amazing claims do need to be challenged from time to time.
 
Somehow, he's become a spokesperson for prostate cancer stories on several news channels, and I'm always put off by his claims, as well as by his consistent message that his kind of surgery can give a man back his life, pretty much as it was prior to diagnosis.  I myself had DaVinci surgery with good outcomes, so I'm certainly not prejudiced against robotic surgery, but someone speaking about the current state of treatment for prostate cancer should cover ALL the bases:  not just Davinci surgery, but open surgery, radiation, new developments in hormone and chemo therapies and so on.  Failing to do that is, I think, doing a great disservice to men who are facing prostate cancer.

James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4453
   Posted 7/28/2011 8:58 AM (GMT -6)   
Doc: I recommend this surgery for you
Patient: Will I be able to play the piano after?
Doc: Sure no problem with that
Patient: Great!, I always wanted to play the piano..

However you stand on the guy, there's so many variables in the issue of before and after results, that I can't see anyone making any definite claims as to rates of success. I went into surgery having already had ED problems developing, and I surely wouldn't expect to gain that back, yet, it seems that the stats used by this doc makes no allowance or even considers mentioning the fact that everyone of his patients didn't show at his door for surgery , bone dry and with an erection hard as a rock and gained at will. There's just to many 'buts' to our stories. Good for Pr, TV appearance signings and the bottom line, but its still just chaff on the radar screen to me.

Post Edited (James C.) : 7/28/2011 2:14:43 PM (GMT-6)


zufus
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 3137
   Posted 7/28/2011 12:53 PM (GMT -6)   
Walks on water and all PCa communities are building the altar right now . If only I could touch his white gown!!!!! (LOL- not in violation of the religious rules)
This gloved one is a miracle of nature, not to be out done in any measurement. Clone him!

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 24271
   Posted 7/28/2011 3:40 PM (GMT -6)   
zufus, i think he's so full of himself that he can't see the potential damage he is doing to those uneducatedd to our malady, and to those attempting to make tough treatment choices. very misleading stats at the least, wish he had to prove them, wouldn't doubt that some of this nonsense doesn't violate false advertisement laws. i thought vanity was one of the deadliest sins, lol.
Age: 58, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, on catheters for 101 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06, 2/11 1.24, 4/11 3.81, 6/11 5.8
Latest: 6 Corr Surgeries to Bladder Neck, SP Catheter since 10/1/9, SRT 39 Sess/72 gy ended 11/09, 21 Catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/10

Sagittarian
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2011
Total Posts : 412
   Posted 7/28/2011 4:02 PM (GMT -6)   
Here's some intel
 
 
 
 
Glenn-Born DEC-1957, NJ, PSA-4.7, FPSA-7%
4/09/2011- Biopsy, 8 NEG, 4 POS, 2(3+3), 2(3+4) 40-90%
5/23/2011- Da-Vinci, R-Nerves Spared, Partial-L, T2c,4+3,25%,Conf,Marg-Lymph-Sem NEG
5/31/2011- Catheter Removed, UTI CIPRO 500mg 2 a day for 10 Days
6/10/2011- No ED, Stress Incontinence
7/05/2011- PSA 0.1 Undetectable
7/17/2011- No Incontinence

Piano
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 845
   Posted 7/28/2011 4:06 PM (GMT -6)   
I don't doubt that Dr S is a good doctor, but probably not a great one. But he does have a great publicity machine! One thing we always have to be aware of when shopping for a doctor, is do we end up with a great doctor or a great salesman?

James, I enjoyed your joke:
James C said...
Doc: I recommend this surgery for you
Patient: Will I be able to play the piano after?
Doc: Sure no problem with that
Patient: Great!, I always wanted to play the piano.
I can can vouch for that. I can still play the piano ~ poorly cry
No symptoms; PSA 5.7; Gleason 4+5=9; cancer in 4/12 cores
Non-nerve-sparing RRP 7 March 2008 age 63
Organ confined, neg margins. Gleason downgrade 4+4=8
Fully continent
Bimix worked well; now using just VED
PSA undetectable at first but then rose to 0.4, doubling time 7 months
Following diet change, PSA static at 0.4...

Post Edited (Piano) : 7/28/2011 3:11:18 PM (GMT-6)


zufus
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 3137
   Posted 7/29/2011 7:09 AM (GMT -6)   
Sag- thanks for links for others to checkout here is info from one of them:

.Why Choose Dr. Samadi?
Over 3,500 successful robotic prostatectomies
Fellowships in open, laparoscopic and robotic surgery
Developed his own advanced SMART surgery technique
Entire procedure is performed by Dr. Samadi
Minimal blood loss (no transfusion necessary)
Personalized care before and after the procedure
Always operates with the same team
96% of patients regain continence*
85% of patients regain sexual function*
Director of Mount Sinai's Robotic Fellowship Program
Fox News Medical "A-Team" expert

Ok-now for those 'cures' rate (97% or whatever was quoted in this thread), he has been doing LRRP for maybe around 9-10 yrs., patients can still have BCR or fail even 10+ years out from surgery with prior excellent psa numbers. So how does he or his staff measure 'cure rates', likely using 2-3 yr. data and saying if numbers look good this long...must be cured? Of course that is misleading and basically unethical to put forth to the public...others are also guilty of over statements...it is a sales game...and you are the 'used car' to be repaired in the shop (LOL). As John T pointed out Dr. Walsh whom was considered the best ever, and selects usually only Gleason 6 patients is in the 84% cure rate zone and he has a much longer track record maybe 20 years? I still love the video where he claims 5 patients a day...I can feel that kind of comp***ion! I haven't seen any of his endorsements or ads here in a while, hopefully those will return (-:

James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4453
   Posted 7/29/2011 8:28 AM (GMT -6)   
I suspect that the cure rate is determined by the first psa test after surgery, if it's .10 or even .20 that one time, it's considered cured. I would bet that there's no followup and recording beyond that first one- at least for the cured claims database. On the other hand the continence figures are probably based on longer periods, maybe 6 mts. or a year. It's all in how he figures it. Until he explains how he bases his claims, which I figure won't ever happen unless under oath, then it's still his claim to make.
James C, 64, East TN
Gonna Make Myself A Better Man tinyurl.com/28e8qcg
4/07: PSA 7.6, 7/07 Biopsy: 3 of 16 PCa, 5% inv, lf. lobe, GS6
9/07: Nerve Spar. open RP, Path: pT2c, 110 gms., clear except:
Prob. microscopic inv.-left apical margin -GS6
3 Years: PSA's .04 each test until 4/10-.06, 9/10-.09, 12/10-.09, 2/11-.08, 5/11-.08
Bimix .30
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