Night Time Urination

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Ozbob
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2011
Total Posts : 218
   Posted 8/13/2011 3:21 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Everyone
 
I had my catheter removed on 27 July.
 
I was previously told by my Uro that one of the benefits of having my prostate removed would be that the frequency of urination would be significantly reduced. So far it has been quite the opposite for me. I am needing to get up at least 3 times during the night to urinate, which is worse than before my surgery. I have my last drink no later than 8pm and usually go to bed around 10pm.
 
Has anyone else had this problem and if so, did the frequency reduce with time?
Age 59
3 May 11 Biopsy Dx Cancer, Gleason Grade 9, PSA 3.7
Bone & CT Scans normal
14 July 11 PSA 4.4
20 July 11 Surgery RALP
Pathology Report:
Stage pT2c pNO
Gleason 4+3=7+tertiary 5
EPE: Absent
Surgical margins: Negative
SVI: Not involved
LN's (right 23, left 17) Clear
Lymphovascular invasion: Present
Perineural invasion: Present
PIN: Present
27 July 11 Catheter out

Water Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2011
Total Posts : 2403
   Posted 8/13/2011 5:54 AM (GMT -6)   
Bob,
 
I am now 9 weeks past my robot date and have been dry since week 4,  I found that the feelings of being full in my bladder is totally different than before the robot. I did not have an enlarged prostate so night time urination was not a problem before. In the first few weeks after I was not wearing pads at night I had to go  2 to 3 of times  but my bladder wasn't really full. Now  depending on what I drink in the evening I am down pretty much to once a night but still when I go not really full. I try to cut off liquids after 8 pm as well but if I drink a couple of glasses of wine I go maybe 2 times a night like last night. Since I am in the similar nightly pee pattern as before surgery I do not know if going is just from learned habits?
 
Terry
AGE 61 with fam hist of PC
PSA
1.5 5/09
2.5 6/10
3.5 12/10 ref URO
5.25 2/11 all DRE Neg

BX 4/13/11 2 of 12 cores diag both sides 15% & 20% GS7(3+4)
RALP nerve-sparing 6/8/11 path G7 pT2C, Marg-Lymph-Sem NEG, organ confined 60% tumor involved 69grms 4.3X4X3 cm
Cath removed 6/15 dry 7/1 first post PSA end of Aug.

8/4/11 start TRIMIX inject therapy for ED

Steve n Dallas
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 3985
   Posted 8/13/2011 6:03 AM (GMT -6)   
"I have my last drink no later than 8pm"
 
Try changing that to 6pm to see if it helps.
 
I've always gotten up once a night before and after surgery. It reallly amazes me that if I look at the clock which I try to avoid - I get up within a couple of minutes of the exact same time every day...
 
Something to consider - instead of getting up the 2nd and 3rd time - see if you can roll over and go back to sleep.

Startech
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2011
Total Posts : 919
   Posted 8/13/2011 8:57 AM (GMT -6)   
Great, not looking forward to this as I still have my cath. In fact the only positive so far, is drinking up to bedtime and sleeping thru the nite with the cath.
Do our bladders shrink after surgery? Maybe we need to re-stretch them by holding during the day?
Age 25 dx enlarged prostate, now age 51
3/2000 psa=.08, 4/2002 psa = 1.4, 4/2011 psa = 47.6, 4/2011 psa= 49.2
5/2011-Prostate Biopsy-3 of 12 cores Positive
Prostate volume 97=tennis ball
PSAD:0.49
Gleason 4+4=8
T2b or T2c n0m0
Bone&CT=neg;
MRI-detected 1 nerve bundle involved
open RRP 8/5/11-home 8/6/11

Tim-from-Maine
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2010
Total Posts : 83
   Posted 8/13/2011 9:00 AM (GMT -6)   
I had my surgery in April 09. I still have to get up about three times a night -which is 3 times more than before surgery.
PSA Feb 09 - 9 Dx age 62 - March 2009 - Gleason 7
Surgery - da-vinci RP on April 29, 2009 Gleason upgraded to 9. PSA dropped to < .04 for 9months then rose to .17. Did SRT in May/June of 2010. PSA droped to .05 for 3 months then rose to 2.9 by July 2011. CT/Bone all clear. Starting HT Aug 2011.

Water Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2011
Total Posts : 2403
   Posted 8/13/2011 9:10 AM (GMT -6)   
Startech, I do not think our bladders shrink we just has one less sphincter and a weak one at that to hold back the flood.

aerie3
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts : 24
   Posted 8/13/2011 9:20 AM (GMT -6)   
YES! Never, ever had to pee durinng the night. And not that much during the day.... Now,,,,3wks postoperative, I have to pee very frequently,,,even during the night.... What's up with that

Nick

Jazzman1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 961
   Posted 8/13/2011 10:42 AM (GMT -6)   
I think that, after 10 or so days with a catheter constantly draining, your bladder just has to get used to holding fluid again. This, along with the healing process, takes time. Don't forget that they messed with your bladder neck while the robot was in there partying.

I'm eight months out from surgery and just starting to get through the night without having to get up. Patience, grasshopper.
Age 56
PSA: 8/09 2.69 -- 7/10 4.00 -- 8/10 4.11
--------------------------------------------------
Biopsy 8/10
Three of 14 cores positive: 10%, 60% & 80%
Stage T1C; Gleason 6
---------------------------------------------------------------
open RP at Cleveland Clinic 11/2/10
Post-surgical pathology: Gleason 7 (3+4)
Three positive margins; Stage T2c(+)
PSA since surgery: <.03

windycitytiger
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2011
Total Posts : 77
   Posted 8/13/2011 4:51 PM (GMT -6)   
Bob,

I had my catheter removed on July 22 and, while definitely not dry, my frequency of nighttime urination has declined. When the catheter was removed I would end up going to the bathroom at least 3 times per night. I made it through the entire night last night for the first time. So hang in there, it will get better.

I have read that, based on one's kidney function, when you first lie down at night fluid may be redistributed causing the need to pee shortly after hitting the rack. That's usually the case with me so I get in bed and read or watch the tube an hour or so before going to sleep.

Just remember, all of us recover differently.

Good luck!

Wheeler
Age 50
PSA 5.7
Biopsy 8 of 12, 6@3+3, 2@3+4
open RP on 7/12/11
Pathology Report:
Gleason 3+4=7
Tumor Involvement: 5% in both lobes
Lymph Inv: Neg
Seminal Ves.: Neg
Margins: Clear
Appears capsule contained!
Catheter removed 7/22/11

April6th
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2010
Total Posts : 263
   Posted 8/13/2011 5:31 PM (GMT -6)   
Prior to surgery I got up 1-2 times every night for several years.

For the 1st week after the catheter was removed I got up 4-5 times a night.

That slowly decreased over 6-8 weeks and now I get up once a night about 4-5 nights a week and sleep all the way through the night 2-3 nights a week.

So be patient! Things may still get better.

Dan
Age: 55
My PSA rose from 3.2 to 5.1 over 1.5 years with Free PSA at 25% for the last two tests.
DRE showed no irregularities other than being a little large.
PCa diagnosed 4/6/10 after biopsy
1 out of 12 biopsy samples was positive with 5% of biopsy sample cancerous
Gleason 3+4
Davinci surgery 6/1/10 -- post op Gleason 3+3
Latest PSA (April 2011) <.1
Zero Club member (renewable every 6 months)

mikey1955
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 657
   Posted 8/13/2011 6:14 PM (GMT -6)   
I had my catheter in for about 19 days...surgeon's schedule and amount of tissue removed. After that amount of time, it took about a week before my bladder was retrained. I was continent after 48 hours of cath removal, but really had to pee more often for the next week or two. Not unusual.
- mid 2007 pain in perineum
- prostatitis dx, several cipro regimens
- PSA 7's by mid 2008
- biopsy 5/8 high core content Dec 2008
- open RP May 2009, no bladder leaks within 48 hours of cath removal
- EPE all else OK, upgraded to 4+3
- ED, oral drugs don't work
- Dec 2009 started trimix, had priapism. Started at 0.1 mL, stopped at 0.02 mL.
- May/June 2010 ED good at 10 mG
- 5 mG now

Ozbob
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2011
Total Posts : 218
   Posted 8/13/2011 8:39 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for the replies guys.
 
I'm somewhat reassured that some of you have had my symptoms and eventually experienced improvement. It's the sleep interruption  that's bothering me  the most. Not too bad while I have been off work, but I start back tomorrow, so I'm hoping to start sleeping better as time goes on. 
Age 59
3 May 11 Biopsy Dx Cancer, Gleason Grade 9, PSA 3.7
Bone & CT Scans normal
14 July 11 PSA 4.4
20 July 11 Surgery RALP
Pathology Report:
Stage pT2c pNO
Gleason 4+3=7+tertiary 5
EPE: Absent
Surgical margins: Negative
SVI: Not involved
LN's (right 23, left 17) Clear
Lymphovascular invasion: Present
Perineural invasion: Present
PIN: Present
27 July 11 Catheter out

SubicSquid
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 252
   Posted 8/14/2011 2:23 PM (GMT -6)   
I guess everyone is definately different.  I am almost two years out from surgery and a little over one year out from radiation.  Before this started, I always slept the whole night thru.  Now I get up 2-3 times.  I have tried medication to no avail.  There has been no hope provided by the doctors.  I am having to learn how to work tired.  It could be worse.  I could be incontinent.  Squid.
*Age 64, PSA July 2009 .66; Biopsy: 2 of 12 cores positive, Gleason 3 + 5
*open Surgery 10/22/09
*Post Surgery Biopsy Gleason 4 + 3; 2 positive margins
*03/11/10 - Bladder neck surgery for stricture
*PSA - 30 day/.07, 90 day/<.1, 180 day/.21
*07/27/10 - SRT done - 39 zaps, 70 gys
*Post SRT PSA - 12 mo. PSA, still <.1

rcroller
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2011
Total Posts : 218
   Posted 8/14/2011 2:30 PM (GMT -6)   
I am almost three months post open RP and my night time peeing has returned to it's pre-surgical state. No question that my bladder shrunk after surgery and I was having to pee like every hour...no incontinence to speak of but frequency was an issue. Now I get up once or twice a night which was about how it was before surgery. Hang in there..it'll get better.
Age 53- PSA 2/11 3.5
4/21/11 BX Path Report: 3 of 12 Left PCa , 3+3, 3+4, 4+4
4/29/11 Received PCa DX, G-8
5/18/11 open RP Performed, Right nerve bundle spared
5/24/11 Post Op Path Report: G-7(4+3) 7%, pT3a N0MX, EPE, +PNI, + Left margin, -SVI
6/1/11 Cath removed, Incontinence-No, ED-Yes.
6/16/2011 First Post-Op PSA: <0.1
7/18/2011 2nd Post-Op PSA: <0.1
10/19/2011 Next Scheduled PSA

pa69
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 250
   Posted 8/14/2011 5:12 PM (GMT -6)   
After my catheter was removed I had to get up 3 or 4 times during the night. Gradually, over time that number has dropped to none to maybe just one time. I don't remember exactly how long it took.

Bob
Age 71, First ever PSA 7.8 taken June 2008, Biopsy July 2008, 10 of 12 cores positive, Gleason 3+3=6
da Vinci surgery December 10, 2008, catheter removed December 29 2008
St. Lukes Hospital, Bethlehem, Pa.
Dr. Frank Tamarkin
Prostate weight 73.0 grams, Gleason 3+3=6, stage pT3a
Tumor locations: right anterior apex, right posterior apex to mid
left anterior mid to base, left posterior apex to mid
extensive perineural invasion in right anterior apex, right and left posterior apex to mid
seminal vesicles negative
Seven PSA tests undetectable, latest Aug 2, 2010
Pad free beginning Mar. 18, 2010!

maldugs
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 651
   Posted 8/14/2011 7:47 PM (GMT -6)   
Bob, had my surgery in July 07, radiation 08, totally dry from day 1, but get up at least 3 times a night to pee, still.

Mal.
age 67 PSA 5.8 DRE firm Rt
Biopsy 2nd July 07 5 out of 12 positive
Gleason 3+4=7 right side tumour stage T2a
RP on 30th July,

Post op Pathology, stage T3a 4+3=7, microcsopic capsular penetration, seminal vessels, bladder neck,clear lymph nodes clear, tumour does not extend to the apical margins.

Post op PSA 0.5 SRT DEc. 07 to Feb 08
PSA April o8 to Feb 11 0.5 to 0.7
July 2011 1.31

tatt2man
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 2813
   Posted 8/14/2011 8:04 PM (GMT -6)   
Bob:

I would get up once or twice to pee at night prior to RP - after surgery the sensation for need-to-pee has changed - including fear of peeing the pad - I get up 2-4 times a night - if I am stressed out from daytime events the freuqency is more -

I have a urinary bottle ( from pharmacy) that I keep up in the bedroom so if I have to pee I don't have to go downstairs - and makes it quick and easy so I don't really "wake up" - so right now, ( 21 months post-op) my pad use is one a day - changed just before bedtime - I am dry in the morning and just suffer about 25-40ml of stress incontinence pee during the day.

It is every easy to get into a knee-jerk reaction and pee each time you feel you need to - part of it is mental conditioning and part of it stretching the bladder back to pre-op size - and help strengthen the realigned sphincter (hoorah for kegels) to hold it in.

Take care - don't beat yourself up if accidents occur - it's only pee

hugs,
Bronson

Post Edited (tatt2man) : 8/14/2011 7:07:26 PM (GMT-6)


clocknut
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 2287
   Posted 8/14/2011 8:47 PM (GMT -6)   
I guess I'm lucky.  Prior to surgery last August, I would get up to pee once per night.  After surgery, nothing has changed in that regard.  Still get up once per night. 
 
One thing working in my favor, and a condition which might be overlooked,  is that I have sleep apnea and use a CPAP machine.  Prior to getting treatment for my apnea, my sleep was shallow and I would wake up frequently, and then go to the bathroom.  Once you're awake in the middle of the night, the tendency is to get up and pee. 
 
My older brother tells me he's up four or five times per night.  My theory is that he has untreated sleep apnea, which is causing him to wake up frequently, and so he goes to the bathroom each time he wakes up.  If he were in Stage Four sleep, the urge to urinate would be suppressed, but in his shallow sleep state, that's not the case.  Even though he has an enlarged prostate, I suspect that his frequent night-time urination results from his shallow sleep state, not the prostate.
 
So I see it as a chicken and egg question.  Does a sleep disorder cause us to wakeup up and so we pee?  In which case the PCa surgery is not the likely cause.  Or is it truly the urge to urinate that wakes us up, which could very possibly be connected to the PCa and surgery?   Or, it could be a combination of both factors.
 
I hope this makes sense. 

Sparkit
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts : 50
   Posted Yesterday 9:54 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm three days post catheter. How long did it take to even know you had to pee? I am soaking 8 pads a day. darned depressing.
Davinci Prostatectomy August15, 2011 RALP
Preliminary results clean
Family history of prostate cancer

142
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 5846
   Posted Yesterday 10:27 PM (GMT -6)   
Sparkit - I suffered several UTIs (until I learned that a wet pad is bad, even if not "full"). I think it was a few weeks before I even had an inkling that I was tinkling (sorry, had to do that).

I was 7-8 pads a day and 1-2 depends pant per day for 3 months, then it fell to 3 pads per day (without the need for the pant).

I called it demoralizing.

Bob - if I drink a beer or Coke late (say 10pm +), I'll have to get up at 3 am. Always. but if I am cautious about what I consume, I can make a 6 hour night, presuming that I have a clear shot to the can as soon as I raise my head off the pillow. This being 20 months post surgery. Before surgery, I can't remember ever having to get up at night to pee.
Moderator - Prostate Cancer

DaVinci 10/2009
My adjuvant IGRT journey (2010) -
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=1756808

amick
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2011
Total Posts : 125
   Posted Today 8:37 AM (GMT -6)   
Sparkit said...
I'm three days post catheter. How long did it take to even know you had to pee? I am soaking 8 pads a day. darned depressing.


I can relate; I'm five days post catheter and still at 7 pads a day (2 of those at night). So, don't feel like the Lone Ranger. :-)

I'm just starting to get a small sensation I need to go, and a little control - several sprints a day to the bathroom - some successful, some not so much... Just have to wait and see I guess. In the meantime I keep on walkin' and keggeling.

Water Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2011
Total Posts : 2403
   Posted Today 9:38 AM (GMT -6)   
My experience has been that the sensation of the need to pee is totally different than before RP.  When I first got the Foley out I had no real sensation of the need to pee and I just made myself pee every hour or so.  I used about 2 pads in the day and wore depends diaper at night for 2 weeks as a pad at night was so uncomfortable. After the first week I was able to stay dry at night after I realized not to drink anything after 8pm. I still had to get up at least once at night to pee.  I have been dry now for almost 2 months but I still have such a difference in the sensation of a full bladder than prior to RP. I do enjoy the ability to now pee on demand anywhere any time and empty a full bladder in 10-15 seconds, probably the only good benefit of no prostate. wink
AGE 61 with fam hist of PC
PSA
1.5 5/09
2.5 6/10
3.5 12/10 ref URO
5.25 2/11 all DRE Neg

BX 4/13/11 2 of 12 cores diag both sides 15% & 20% GS7(3+4)
RALP nerve-sparing 6/8/11 path G7 pT2C, Marg-Lymph-Sem NEG, organ confined 60% tumor involved 69grms 4.3X4X3 cm
Cath removed 6/15 dry 7/1 first post PSA end of Aug.

8/4/11 start TRIMIX inject therapy for ED

Sparrowhawk
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2011
Total Posts : 130
   Posted Today 10:05 AM (GMT -6)   
When my cath was removed, I did have some night time urination troubles. I too made frequent trips to the throne. The trips did lessen, thankfully. Now two months after surgery I can hold my urine very well. There are no more night time trips after I last empty at around 10 pm. I'm not careful about the amount of liquid I consume before bed time.
31 Jan 11 "Cyst" found on prostate during Colonoscopy.
28 Feb 11 Biopsy of Prostate G-3+4=7
15 Mar 11 Bone and Cat Scans completed- Normal
25 Jun 11 Di Vinci surgery preformed, prostate removed. MSK NYC
05 Jul 11 Catheter removed, Pathology report- No more cancer!
13 Jul 11 One week after surgery, PSA 0.98 before Surg. 2.16
03 Aug 11 Six weeks after surgery, PSA <0.05

Startech
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2011
Total Posts : 919
   Posted Today 10:16 AM (GMT -6)   
Cath out 12 days now. I am seeing some improvement. I notice now that I can hold it when laying down or sitting in a certain postion. But standing, its an open faucet unless I strain, can hold it until I get to the toilet.

So on lazy days, I drink, drink, drink and sit until I think I am gonna burst. Then do the penquin trot to the toilet. My doc wanted me to stop and hold as many times as I could while peeing. I modified that a little to stop, hold and walk to the living room and back to get used to holding while walking.

With a large prostate, I always got up at nite. Sometimes once and sometimes serveral times. Now, when I wake up-I try my best to roll over and go back to sleep. So far, that is not working. But I do hold as long as possible just for the excercise of holding. Love the strong stream and emptying.

Also-I got some baby wipes by the toilet. I do general cleaning often to avoid UTI.

Everyone is different, so dont give up.
enlarged prostate at age 25-now 51
3/2000 psa=.08
4/2002 psa = 1.4
4/2011 psa = 47.6
4/2011 psa= 49.2
5/2011 Prostate Biopsy-3 of 12 cores Positive
Volume 97
Gleason 4+4=8
T2c n0m0
Bone&CT=neg
MRI-1 nerve bundle involved
open RRP 8/5/11,home 8/6/11,cath out 8/16/11
Post Op Path
71g,5.5x5.0x5.0 cm
Gleason upgraded 5+4=9
13 lymph nodes,SVI neg
Margin,PNI-pos
pT3aN0Mx

Sparkit
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts : 50
   Posted Today 3:14 PM (GMT -6)   
Guys, thanks for the reassurance. Penguin walk ... can I use that term? I wish that I knew what to expect after surgery. The doctors are great with everything until after one leaves the hospital. If they had told me that I will be leaking like a faucet or told me I will need a lot of pads I probably wouldn't have to seek ansers online.
My wife said that this is what the ladies go through with their monthlies. At least they have an adult to explain what to expect.

Post Edited (Sparkit) : 8/27/2011 8:55:41 PM (GMT-6)

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