Needle size and length for trimix injections

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trimix
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2011
Total Posts : 369
   Posted 12/27/2011 1:06 PM (GMT -6)   
My Uro gave me 4 ea 3 cc syringes with 1 cc of trimix in ea, with a 27g needle, 1/2 long. Looks like from what I can tell so far, I will only need .33-.5cc of trimix per injection. I am looking for information regarding min needle size and length. I am reading that some guy's are using 31g 5/16 needles, is this ok ?? any more risk or problems ?? seems like that size would minimise the ouch effect !!!
 
I will repackage my current supply of trimix into smaller syringes so I can be very accurate in my dosage and keep track of it's effect.
 
Thanks in advance for the help :-)
5/05- PSA 2.008
12/08- PSA 2.87
2/11- PSA 4.357
3/11- 12 needle biopcy performed with cancer detected in only 1 core with a Gleason Score of 3+3,
5/3/11-Robotic Prostatectomy performed, Path report showed tumor volume 1cc stage pT2c with no signs of cancer ouside the prostate, all margins negative
8/1/11 PSA .060, 10/26
10/26/11 PSA .16
10/31/11 PSA .17
11/15/11 PSA .19 11/24/11 Started Avodart

Todd1963
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 2209
   Posted 12/27/2011 1:34 PM (GMT -6)   
5/16 31 gauge
dx:06/03/06
Age at dx: 42 age now 45
Treated for sciatic nerve pain 6 months prior to dx.
Heavy amount of blood in urine Unable to urinate 
Lung x-ray for pnumonia revealed multiple lesions in each lung
P.S.A. at time of dx. 3216.14
Began lupron and casodex
Cat scan showed large mass in the pelvic area affecting the bladder multiple nodules in both lungs and lymph node envolvement.
Bone scan revealed possible bone involvment in the pelvic area
Biopsy 12 of 12 cores positive gleason 3+4=7
P.S.A.s since lupron 2946, 1274, 532, 5.01 1.23, .09
Begining jan 08 psa .o9, .25, .44, .86, .73, 1.34, 1.49. Doubling time is a little over 3 months
Cat Scan 12/12/08 Prostate normal size and shape. No tumors detected. Left lung clear of all nodules right lung showing only benign scar tissue. Lymph nodes normal
Bone Scan 12/24/08. Clean!!! went off casodex January 4 2009
Current psa 2/13/09 .16
Latest P.S.A. 0.05 newest P.S.A. undetectable

trimix
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2011
Total Posts : 369
   Posted 12/27/2011 1:37 PM (GMT -6)   
living1963 said...
5/16 31 gauge
 
Is this a good length and gauge for this application ?? is that what you use ?? any pain ??
Thanks

5/05- PSA 2.008
12/08- PSA 2.87
2/11- PSA 4.357
3/11- 12 needle biopcy performed with cancer detected in only 1 core with a Gleason Score of 3+3,
5/3/11-Robotic Prostatectomy performed, Path report showed tumor volume 1cc stage pT2c with no signs of cancer ouside the prostate, all margins negative
8/1/11 PSA .060, 10/26
10/26/11 PSA .16
10/31/11 PSA .17
11/15/11 PSA .19 11/24/11 Started Avodart

Todd1963
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 2209
   Posted 12/27/2011 1:38 PM (GMT -6)   
The size you quoted works well and the ouch factor is minimized a quick insert to the hilt of the syringe. It hurts more to push the plunger if done correctly
dx:06/03/06
Age at dx: 42 age now 45
Treated for sciatic nerve pain 6 months prior to dx.
Heavy amount of blood in urine Unable to urinate 
Lung x-ray for pnumonia revealed multiple lesions in each lung
P.S.A. at time of dx. 3216.14
Began lupron and casodex
Cat scan showed large mass in the pelvic area affecting the bladder multiple nodules in both lungs and lymph node envolvement.
Bone scan revealed possible bone involvment in the pelvic area
Biopsy 12 of 12 cores positive gleason 3+4=7
P.S.A.s since lupron 2946, 1274, 532, 5.01 1.23, .09
Begining jan 08 psa .o9, .25, .44, .86, .73, 1.34, 1.49. Doubling time is a little over 3 months
Cat Scan 12/12/08 Prostate normal size and shape. No tumors detected. Left lung clear of all nodules right lung showing only benign scar tissue. Lymph nodes normal
Bone Scan 12/24/08. Clean!!! went off casodex January 4 2009
Current psa 2/13/09 .16
Latest P.S.A. 0.05 newest P.S.A. undetectable

Water Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2011
Total Posts : 2403
   Posted 12/27/2011 2:07 PM (GMT -6)   
 I use a 30ga needle 1/2" long and have no pain.  This is a common insulin syringe. I also use about .35ml of Trimix
 
Terry
AGE 61 with fam hist of PC
PSA
1.5 5/09
2.5 6/10
3.5 12/10 ref URO
5.25 2/11 all DRE Neg
BX 4/13/11 2 of 12 cores diag both sides 15% & 20% GS7(3+4)
RALP nerve-sparing 6/8/11 path G7 pT2C, Marg-Lymph-Sem-Vas NEG, organ confined 60% tumor involved 69grms 4.3X4X3 cm 100% dry 7/1/11
post PSA
8//11 <0.07
12/11 <0.04
TRIMIX therapy for ED seeing improvement
Zero club member in good standing

Todd1963
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 2209
   Posted 12/27/2011 2:39 PM (GMT -6)   
Yes. This is the size I use. It ouches a little. I put a finger behind th base of the shaft and stick it quick. It helps
dx:06/03/06
Age at dx: 42 age now 45
Treated for sciatic nerve pain 6 months prior to dx.
Heavy amount of blood in urine Unable to urinate 
Lung x-ray for pnumonia revealed multiple lesions in each lung
P.S.A. at time of dx. 3216.14
Began lupron and casodex
Cat scan showed large mass in the pelvic area affecting the bladder multiple nodules in both lungs and lymph node envolvement.
Bone scan revealed possible bone involvment in the pelvic area
Biopsy 12 of 12 cores positive gleason 3+4=7
P.S.A.s since lupron 2946, 1274, 532, 5.01 1.23, .09
Begining jan 08 psa .o9, .25, .44, .86, .73, 1.34, 1.49. Doubling time is a little over 3 months
Cat Scan 12/12/08 Prostate normal size and shape. No tumors detected. Left lung clear of all nodules right lung showing only benign scar tissue. Lymph nodes normal
Bone Scan 12/24/08. Clean!!! went off casodex January 4 2009
Current psa 2/13/09 .16
Latest P.S.A. 0.05 newest P.S.A. undetectable

DaSlink
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 667
   Posted 12/27/2011 5:06 PM (GMT -6)   
Oh GREAT! I'm am getting my script filled this week and I already have anxiety over giving myself the first shot shocked I am curious to see if the dose given (0.3cc) is going to make it harder than Chinese algebra and the length of time this stiffness will last.
Since my wife made the comment( about time we get some action in here),I would like to see which will give out first, her or my knees devil my money is on my knees, since i have had 2 surgeries(1 on each knee) since the end of Sept. The last one was Dec 8th and my rehab is going a little slower this time.
Let the games begin yeah
Every minute you fish or ride,adds an hour to your life!

Age 52 Dx age 53 daVinci surgery
prostate volume 32 grams
Biopsy 12 cores with 7 positive
Gleason score of 7
Psa at surgery 49.8
RRP on 01/25/11
PT3a
margin involved-Left anterior
lymph nodes clear
1st PO Psa 0.26 03/16/11
2nd PO Psa 0.08-05/19/11
3rd PO Psa 0.05-08/22/11
Lots of ED

trimix
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2011
Total Posts : 369
   Posted 12/27/2011 5:18 PM (GMT -6)   
Well, my Uro gave me a script for 30g X 5/16, 1cc syringes, that should do it very nicely and I will let you know how it goes. The 27g needle 1/2 long that he used on me the first time did not "ouch" that much but this should be even better.
 
Thanks everyone for the input, I do appreciate it.
5/05- PSA 2.008
12/08- PSA 2.87
2/11- PSA 4.357
3/11- 12 needle biopcy performed with cancer detected in only 1 core with a Gleason Score of 3+3,
5/3/11-Robotic Prostatectomy performed, Path report showed tumor volume 1cc stage pT2c with no signs of cancer ouside the prostate, all margins negative
8/1/11 PSA .060, 10/26
10/26/11 PSA .16
10/31/11 PSA .17
11/15/11 PSA .19 11/24/11 Started Avodart

jake930
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 26
   Posted 12/27/2011 6:35 PM (GMT -6)   
i just started trimix. it worked well in his office. have not injected my self yet. just got the needles tonight. they look awful big to me, the package says 25G 5/8. where does this fall in the size factor? i am a little nervous. confused is 25G BIGGER AROUND THAN 31 G? AND SHOLD THE 5/8th GO RIGHT TO THE HILT? OR IS THIS TO LONG?

Cajun Jeff
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 3612
   Posted 12/27/2011 6:48 PM (GMT -6)   
Jake.. 25 if a lot bigger than 31 for sure..and 5/8 is a lot longer than 5/16. All I can think is OUCH! Possibly your anatomy requires that greater length. LOL

Cajun Jeff

trimix
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2011
Total Posts : 369
   Posted 12/27/2011 6:53 PM (GMT -6)   
Yes, 25g is bigger than 31, the bigger the number, the smaller the needle.
25g and 5/8 is pretty big. I ended up with 30g x 5/16 long and .5cc capacity.
I will let you know how it works.
5/05- PSA 2.008
12/08- PSA 2.87
2/11- PSA 4.357
3/11- 12 needle biopcy performed with cancer detected in only 1 core with a Gleason Score of 3+3,
5/3/11-Robotic Prostatectomy performed, Path report showed tumor volume 1cc stage pT2c with no signs of cancer ouside the prostate, all margins negative
8/1/11 PSA .060, 10/26
10/26/11 PSA .16
10/31/11 PSA .17
11/15/11 PSA .19 11/24/11 Started Avodart

Water Guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2011
Total Posts : 2403
   Posted 12/28/2011 7:44 AM (GMT -6)   
My advice is needle no larger than 29ga and no longer than 1/2", unless you are lucky enough to be hung like a horse. smhair
AGE 61 with fam hist of PC
PSA
1.5 5/09
2.5 6/10
3.5 12/10 ref URO
5.25 2/11 all DRE Neg
BX 4/13/11 2 of 12 cores diag both sides 15% & 20% GS7(3+4)
RALP nerve-sparing 6/8/11 path G7 pT2C, Marg-Lymph-Sem-Vas NEG, organ confined 60% tumor involved 69grms 4.3X4X3 cm 100% dry 7/1/11
post PSA
8//11 <0.07
12/11 <0.04
TRIMIX therapy for ED seeing improvement
Zero club member in good standing

trimix
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2011
Total Posts : 369
   Posted 12/28/2011 10:53 AM (GMT -6)   
Update- I injected trimix last night on my own for the first time, .33 cc of trimix with a .5 cc syringe with a 30g x 5/16 needle and it work very well, no pain at all and was quick.

I reached about 80-90% in about 15 min and it lasted a little over an hour :-)

Seems like it would be safe to bump it up to .4 and see how that works, would like to get to 100%.

I really like the .5 cc syringe, you can really manage the small amounts well and keep track of what you are using.
5/05- PSA 2.008
12/08- PSA 2.87
2/11- PSA 4.357
3/11- 12 needle biopcy performed with cancer detected in only 1 core with a Gleason Score of 3+3,
5/3/11-Robotic Prostatectomy performed, Path report showed tumor volume 1cc stage pT2c with no signs of cancer ouside the prostate, all margins negative
8/1/11 PSA .060, 10/26
10/26/11 PSA .16
10/31/11 PSA .17
11/15/11 PSA .19 11/24/11 Started Avodart

Southern Comfort
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2011
Total Posts : 993
   Posted 12/28/2011 11:01 AM (GMT -6)   
Trimix, congratulations. I recommend trying several at the same dosage to get a good baseline before adjusting dosages.
Age 51; dx at 50~10/2010 PSA 54.9
Nerve sparing RRP 12/2010; removed 14 lymph nodes
Pathology report: T3bN0MX, SVI, neg margin, G9
Dry at 2 months
Ureteral re-implantation surgery 2/25/2011
AHT, up to 3 yr: Lupron 11/10, 3/11, 7/11, 11/11
All HT SE (including total ED) but still good libido; success w pump & trimix
Finished ART incl lymph nodes 9/19/2011
Undetectable PSA so far

trimix
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2011
Total Posts : 369
   Posted 12/28/2011 11:04 AM (GMT -6)   
Good idea and that is a smart thing to do, will give it a go a few more times to see how willie adjusts to his new life :-)
5/05- PSA 2.008
12/08- PSA 2.87
2/11- PSA 4.357
3/11- 12 needle biopcy performed with cancer detected in only 1 core with a Gleason Score of 3+3,
5/3/11-Robotic Prostatectomy performed, Path report showed tumor volume 1cc stage pT2c with no signs of cancer ouside the prostate, all margins negative
8/1/11 PSA .060, 10/26
10/26/11 PSA .16
10/31/11 PSA .17
11/15/11 PSA .19 11/24/11 Started Avodart

KickintheButt
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2011
Total Posts : 118
   Posted 12/28/2011 3:40 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey great work Trimix, welcome to the club! I was adamant I'd never do needles but after 3+ years of the withered one..... 5/16 and #30 seems to be the norm, I have #29 and it's almost painless so are happy with the added safety margin for breakage (of the needle!).

If after another similar dosage and similar result I'd bump to 0.4 it could be enough. I seem to be typical in seeing a gradual increase in sensitivity to trimix so you may eventually go back to 0.33 or even less but personally I like the feeling of the crushingly hard erections and 2+ hours and I am theorising it is having a strong therapeutic effect on the cavernosa tissue. After the long absence of erections I am getting some spontaneous twinges and firmness and nocturnal events and greater response to the blue pills.

Keep us posted. Muz
Age 56
1/08 PSA 7.7 sympton free
3/08 PSA 10.9
5/08 Biopsy Gleason 4+3
6/08 DaVinci RP, catheter 7 days, margins negative
9/08 Continent (12 weeks)
PSAs - ZERO CLUB
11/08 ED - Cialis and Viagra started minimally effective - occasionally 80% insufficient for penetration
8/11 BiMix 80% effective
9/11 TriMix 105%!

Post Edited (KickintheButt) : 12/28/2011 1:43:29 PM (GMT-7)


trimix
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2011
Total Posts : 369
   Posted 12/28/2011 3:59 PM (GMT -6)   
Yes, I am also looking for that "therapeutic effect" and want to get "willie" back to normal function and size if I can so I guess dealing with "105%" is what I need to try and accomplish.
 
 I wish I had started this awhile back, I am now almost 8 months since my RP and after messing around with pills, some time has now passed without a good stretch. Does anyone have any experience with how trimix will hopefully get things back to normal ???
 
Thanks guy's for all the input, it is really appreciated !!!
5/05- PSA 2.008
12/08- PSA 2.87
2/11- PSA 4.357
3/11- 12 needle biopcy performed with cancer detected in only 1 core with a Gleason Score of 3+3,
5/3/11-Robotic Prostatectomy performed, Path report showed tumor volume 1cc stage pT2c with no signs of cancer ouside the prostate, all margins negative
8/1/11 PSA .060, 10/26
10/26/11 PSA .16
10/31/11 PSA .17
11/15/11 PSA .19 11/24/11 Started Avodart

DaSlink
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 667
   Posted 12/29/2011 5:37 PM (GMT -6)   
I got my "stuff" today and man does that needle look BIG shocked It's a30ga x1/2'' and I use 0.3ml. My biggest worry is now it looks like it will go all the way through to the other side smilewinkgrin
As soon as I get up the courage to poke myself,it's off to the races yeah
Every minute you fish or ride,adds an hour to your life!

Age 52 Dx age 53 daVinci surgery
prostate volume 32 grams
Biopsy 12 cores with 7 positive
Gleason score of 7
Psa at surgery 49.8
RRP on 01/25/11
PT3a
margin involved-Left anterior
lymph nodes clear
1st PO Psa 0.26 03/16/11
2nd PO Psa 0.08-05/19/11
3rd PO Psa 0.05-08/22/11
Lots of ED

trimix
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2011
Total Posts : 369
   Posted 12/29/2011 5:44 PM (GMT -6)   
The 30g is good, try and get 5/16 length, what is the syringe capacity ??  I got .5cc for accuracy of measurement and it is really easy to use.
 
Good luck with the poke :-)  you will like the results. I will be having my second session tonight when I can block off a couple of hours of private time !!!
5/05- PSA 2.008
12/08- PSA 2.87
2/11- PSA 4.357
3/11- 12 needle biopcy performed with cancer detected in only 1 core with a Gleason Score of 3+3,
5/3/11-Robotic Prostatectomy performed, Path report showed tumor volume 1cc stage pT2c with no signs of cancer ouside the prostate, all margins negative
8/1/11 PSA .060, 10/26
10/26/11 PSA .16
10/31/11 PSA .17
11/15/11 PSA .19 11/24/11 Started Avodart

North49
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 83
   Posted 12/30/2011 12:38 AM (GMT -6)   
I use the 29 gauge 1/2" 100 cc/1 ml needles. It may be a mistake to get the 0.5 ml needles since you may require more than .5 ml of trimix, I do, .55 to .6 ml.

From my experience super accurate measurements are not required so the 1 ml needles 0.02 ml marks are enough to give you small enough increments to find the right dosage.

My compounding pharmacy gives a 90 day shelf life on the mix and when you get close to the expiry date the effectiveness drops so you may need more to get the same result. So far I am happy with the trimix, a little burning that I didn't get with the bimix, but the trimix works better. FTR I pay $130 for 10 ml of trimix.
PSA 5.6 - 04/2010 - DRE positive
PSA 6.7 - 09/2010
Biopsy - 09/2010 - Age 53
T2b/c Gleason 7, 4+3
PSA 8.2 - 12/2010
RRP - 12/2010
pT3a, Gleason 7, 3+4, 20% PCa
pNO
Negative margins and seminal vesicles
RP 37.3 g
No further treatment recommended.
PSA <0.01 - 03/2011 - 3 month post-op
PSA <0.01 - 06/2011 - 6 month post-op
PSA <0.01 - 09/2011 - 9 month post-op
PSA <0.01 - 12/2011 - 12 month post-op

trimix
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2011
Total Posts : 369
   Posted 12/30/2011 8:04 AM (GMT -6)   
We will see how the .5 cc syringes work out, I only have $20 invested in them, they were pretty cheap.

I am more concerned with getting an exact measurement, never done anything like this before. I will be bumping from .33-.4 on my next injection in a couple of days and that is a pretty small change.

I am paying $10 for 1.0 CC of trimix direct from my Uro's office so I guess that is a pretty good price.
5/05- PSA 2.008
12/08- PSA 2.87
2/11- PSA 4.357
3/11- 12 needle biopcy performed with cancer detected in only 1 core with a Gleason Score of 3+3,
5/3/11-Robotic Prostatectomy performed, Path report showed tumor volume 1cc stage pT2c with no signs of cancer ouside the prostate, all margins negative
8/1/11 PSA .060, 10/26
10/26/11 PSA .16
10/31/11 PSA .17
11/15/11 PSA .19 11/24/11 Started Avodart

tatt2man
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 2813
   Posted 12/30/2011 10:02 AM (GMT -6)   
trimix-
- do remember to have sudafed (antihistamine) on hand in case the erection last longer than wanted - it can stay up for 4 hours max and then can cause problems
- after the deed is done you can take sudafed to encourage it to have a rest and go back to flaccid state.
-also, it is recommended to alternate injection sites - left side then right side - to help reduce risk of priapism.
wishing you and your wife all the best in the new year.
Bronson

North49
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 83
   Posted 12/30/2011 11:24 AM (GMT -6)   
tatman- I think you meant pyronies if you inject in the same place. This is a common belief but Dr Mulhal of the Sloan Kettering Hospital doesn't think there is any significant tissue level damage beyond the microscopic level by injecting in the same location. However, I alternate from left to right. :)
PSA 5.6 - 04/2010 - DRE positive
PSA 6.7 - 09/2010
Biopsy - 09/2010 - Age 53
T2b/c Gleason 7, 4+3
PSA 8.2 - 12/2010
RRP - 12/2010
pT3a, Gleason 7, 3+4, 20% PCa
pNO
Negative margins and seminal vesicles
RP 37.3 g
No further treatment recommended.
PSA <0.01 - 03/2011 - 3 month post-op
PSA <0.01 - 06/2011 - 6 month post-op
PSA <0.01 - 09/2011 - 9 month post-op
PSA <0.01 - 12/2011 - 12 month post-op

trimix
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2011
Total Posts : 369
   Posted 12/30/2011 1:08 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for all the input guy's, it is appreciated.
 
 I did another injection last night of .33 cc and got the same results as before, not real hard and it took about 20 min for any real action to kick in along with needing some stimulation and totally limp at a little over 1 hr.
 
Seems like .33 cc is on the light side for me so I will bump it up a bit next time. What is anyone's experience on how quickly you should get a reaction when you are on target with your dosage ??
5/05- PSA 2.008
12/08- PSA 2.87
2/11- PSA 4.357
3/11- 12 needle biopcy performed with cancer detected in only 1 core with a Gleason Score of 3+3,
5/3/11-Robotic Prostatectomy performed, Path report showed tumor volume 1cc stage pT2c with no signs of cancer ouside the prostate, all margins negative
8/1/11 PSA .060, 10/26
10/26/11 PSA .16
10/31/11 PSA .17
11/15/11 PSA .19 11/24/11 Started Avodart

North49
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 83
   Posted 12/31/2011 1:01 AM (GMT -6)   
Standing at attention in 5 minutes with the right dosage for me. If you have any nerve response you'll get a bit more firmness with stimulation after injection.

Here is what I did to zero in on the right dosage. I started low and upped it by 0.05 ml with each injection trial. Finally got to 0.55ml which does the trick and as the mixture gets past two months I up it to 0.60 ml.
PSA 5.6 - 04/2010 - DRE positive
PSA 6.7 - 09/2010
Biopsy - 09/2010 - Age 53
T2b/c Gleason 7, 4+3
PSA 8.2 - 12/2010
RRP - 12/2010
pT3a, Gleason 7, 3+4, 20% PCa
pNO
Negative margins and seminal vesicles
RP 37.3 g
No further treatment recommended.
PSA <0.01 - 03/2011 - 3 month post-op
PSA <0.01 - 06/2011 - 6 month post-op
PSA <0.01 - 09/2011 - 9 month post-op
PSA <0.01 - 12/2011 - 12 month post-op
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