Is 100% Pomegranate juice NOT from concentrate better than 100% Pom. from concentrate?

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imtls
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2011
Total Posts : 25
   Posted 4/23/2012 12:15 AM (GMT -6)   
I am wondering if 100% Pomegranate juice (NOT FROM concentrate) is nutritionally better than 100% Pomegranate juice (FROM concentrate). It seems the processing that goes into creating the concentrate followed by more processing turning the concentrate back into a liquid may not be as healthy as obtaining pure squeezed pomegranate juice (not from concentrate).

I have been taking a daily 8 oz. serving of Lakewood 100% pomegranate juice (not from concentrate) purchased at a local Whole Foods store. The bottle holds 32 ounces of pomegranate juice. I recently found a 60 ounce POM 100% pomegranate juice (from concentrated) on sale at Costco for almost the same price I was paying for the 32 ounce bottle at Whole Foods.

Is there any reason NOT to purchase the 60 ounce POM bottle at Costco instead of the 32 ounce Lakewood bottle?

My PSA scores have dropped from 4.34 to 3.73 (over a 9 month period) after starting to drink pomegranate juice. I have also been eating healthier over this time period.

If you have any knowledge on this subject, I would appreciate your comments.
Male, age 63, psa 4.34, biopsy 7/27/11 2 of 14 cores positive (5% and 20%) & 1 PIN
Gleason 3 + 3 = 6, Clinical Stage T1c
9/27/11 PCA3 score 14.0
9/28/11 biopsy 2 of 14 cores positive (5% and 20%), Gleason 3+3 = 6
10/06/11 Mayo reviewed 9/28/11 biopsy & upgraded Gleason 3+4 = 7
11/28/11 PSA 3.43, 01/13/12 PSA 3.63, 03/15/12 3.73

Aimzee
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2010
Total Posts : 1183
   Posted 4/23/2012 6:13 AM (GMT -6)   
Imtls, it looks like your PSA has a slight increase since 11/28/11.  I don't know if Pomegranate juice helps.  My bottle said made from real juice.  I don't know what the answer is.  I would assume drinking the real juice would be most beneficial.
Husband Ron, age 63
4/1/10 PSA 5.5 Prostate size = 50 grams
Biopsy on 4/20/10 12 samples. Adenocarcinoma: 3 positive cores on right side - No Perineural Invasion Gleason 6 (3+3) Bone Scan/CT Negative 8/18/10 - Da Vinci Prostatectomy. Post Op: Gleason 7 (3+4) Negative surgical margins & lymph nodes. Both nerve bundles spared. ED a problem /No incontinence. Testicular pain. 10/11 PSA 0.01

BB_Fan
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 977
   Posted 4/23/2012 6:30 AM (GMT -6)   
Don't know that I have an answer. I have heard two arguments, 100% juice is stored longer before it gets to you and consequently may be lower in quality than juice that is concentrated and frozen right away. I guess the best approach is to do the juicing yourself. There is a lot of that going on today.
Dx Dec 2008 at 56, PSA 3.4
Biopsy: T1c, Geason 7 (3+4)
Robotic RP March 2009
Path Report: T2c, G8, organ confined, neg margins, lymph nodes - tumor vol 9%
PSA's < .01, .01, .07, .28, .50. ADT 3 5/10. IMRT 7/10.
PSA's post HT/SRT .01, < .01
End ADT3 5/11
PSA 10/11 < .01, T 103
PSA 1/12 < .01, T 214

Casey59
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Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 3172
   Posted 4/23/2012 9:25 AM (GMT -6)   

imtls, I cannot directly answer your question with a “yes” or “no,” and I suspect that a clear answer to this narrow question is unknown today, but I suspect that there might be only marginal differences (but I doubt this aspect has been studied in depth).  The bigger differences is likely from those who take pomegranate of any variety versus those who don’t take pomegranate to help slow PC progression.

I’m guessing that you are already aware that at last year’s American Society of Clinical Oncologists (ASCO) conference, the findings of the pomegranate/PC benefits under study in a Phase II trail (by Dr Michael Carducci from highly respected Johns Hopkins) were judged to be so important that they adjusted the conference schedule to allow for oral presentation of interim results.  The Carducci study was independent confirmation of the favorable impact on slowing PSADT as a measurement of PC progression.  (A number of study participants actually had their PSAs decline.) 

This news from ASCO was exciting and wonderful news to the prostate cancer community!!!

 


FoxRun
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts : 619
   Posted 4/23/2012 9:51 AM (GMT -6)   
I guess a more interesting question is "does any form of Pomegranate juice have any direct affect on PSA levels?"
Age 52, Stage T2c, Gleason grade 8-10
PSA level of 10.6 no symptoms whatsoever.
Ct scan and Bone scan negative
my diagnosis is considered a high risk disease and my treatment EBR + Barchy Seed Implants + HT
50mg of Bicalutamide tablets per day first 30 days
22.5 mg Lupron for 12 months
PSA value: 5.5 May 2011, 0.03 Nov 2011, undectable Feb 2012
T levels 1.66 Nov 2011, 1.?? Feb 2012.

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 24302
   Posted 4/23/2012 10:23 AM (GMT -6)   
My thought exactly, Foxrun. We have been through this question many times over the years here at HW. My answer is standard, according to the oncology-specific dieticians that I have access to as part of my Oncology Rehab program - they say that there is no absolute proof of any benefit to POM juice. They also say, that if you like it, drink it, certainly won't hurt a thing. My own oncologist also feels, after reading all the latest studies, that it is inconlusive. He does not reccomend drinking or not drinking it, or taking the pills. Says its up to the individual, and if a person feels its helping, then so be it.

david
Age: 59, 56 dx, PSA: 7/07 5.8, 10/08 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/08 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, Gleason 4+3
open RP: 11/08, original catheters 63 days
Path Rpt: Gleason 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% cancer, 1 pos margin
Incont & ED: None
Post Surgery PSA: 2/09 .05,5/09 .1, 6/09 .11. 8/09 .16
Post SRT PSA: 1/10 .12, 4/8 .04, 8/6 .06, 2/11 1.24, 4/11 3.81, 6/11 5.8, 12/11 14.0
Other: Spent total of 1 ½ years on 21 catheters, had Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/10
Member of Prostate Cancer & Chronic Pain HW Communities

davidg
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 4093
   Posted 4/23/2012 11:11 AM (GMT -6)   
I tried the stuff but found it vile. I'll stick to orange juice.

Here is what my surgeon says on the issue:

"Recent studies have shown that pomegranate juice can help slow the progression of prostate cancer and may also prevent prostate cancer from worsening. Phytochemicals (specifically ellagic acid) and other antioxidants found in pomegranates have been shown to disrupt the interaction between testosterone and prostate cancer cells thus preventing the cancer from spreading to bones and/or causing these cancer cells to die. While these results are promising, they are only preliminary studies and more research must be conducted.

If, however, you do choose to consume pomegranate juice, please consult with your doctor beforehand. Evidence exists showing this juice can affect the metabolism of numerous prescription drugs including anticoagulants (blood thinners, including warfarin (Coumadin)) and certain hypertension and hypercholesterolemia (high cholesterol) medications."
40 years old - Diagnosed at 40
Robotic Surgery Mount Sinai with Dr. Samadi Jan, 2011
complete urinary control and good erections with and without meds
Prostate was small, 34 grams.
Final Gleason score 7 (3+4)
Less than 5% of slides involved tumor
Tumor measured 5 mm in greatest dimension and was located in the right lobe near the apex.
Tumor was confined to prostate.
The apical, basal, pseudocapsular and soft tissue resection margins were free of tumor.
Seminal vesicles were free of tumor.
Right pelvic node - benign fibroadiopse tissue. no lymph node is identified.
Left pelvic node - one small lymph node, negative for tumor (0/1)

AJCC stage: pT2 NO MX

English Alf
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 2087
   Posted 4/23/2012 11:13 AM (GMT -6)   
I was under the impression that many of those who support pom for PCa do so on the basis that there is a specific chemical in it that helps and that pom extract is all you need. In this case it is thus not the same as say differences between the quality and health benefits of freshly-squeezed OJ compared to OJ made from (frozen) concentrate.

I sort of side with David on this. I also not that over the years science seems to have been better at providing evidence about things/foods/drinks that are bad for you. Pom is not bad for you so if you want to try it you are welcome, if it proves later that it works then I'll be among the first to hold my hand up and say I was wrong about Pom. However, I have tried assorted varities and I really do not like the taste and the acidity does not help my digestion either. (And that acidity also means that some pom juices have a massive amount of sugar added to them)
Alf

F8
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3256
   Posted 4/23/2012 11:21 AM (GMT -6)   
the Pom capsules are the way to go.  i get them delivered in the mail on a subscription basis so all i have  to do is take a capsule every day.  been doing that for two years.  if you are drinking POM for the taste i'd buy the one that tastes better to you.
 
studies do show that pomegranate does slow the progression of PC. 
 
ed
age: 57
PSA on 12/09: 6.8
gleason 3+4 = 7
HT, BT and IGRT
received 3rd and last lupron shot 9/14/10
2/8/11 PSA <.1, T= 6 ng/dl
6/8/11 PSA .2, T = 540 ng/dl
8/19/11 PSA .3, T = 487 ng/dl
10/5/11 PSA .2, T = 530 ng/dl
3/1/12 PSA .3

BB_Fan
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 977
   Posted 4/23/2012 11:27 AM (GMT -6)   
I do the pomegranate extract capsules as well, but I also drink the juice occassioanlly. The POM lite tastes better. I think that all they do is water it down though.
Dx Dec 2008 at 56, PSA 3.4
Biopsy: T1c, Geason 7 (3+4)
Robotic RP March 2009
Path Report: T2c, G8, organ confined, neg margins, lymph nodes - tumor vol 9%
PSA's < .01, .01, .07, .28, .50. ADT 3 5/10. IMRT 7/10.
PSA's post HT/SRT .01, < .01
End ADT3 5/11
PSA 10/11 < .01, T 103
PSA 1/12 < .01, T 214

imtls
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2011
Total Posts : 25
   Posted 4/24/2012 8:47 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for all of your replies.

The reason I started drinking pomegranate juice was the reply I received from a urologist when I asked him if I should start eating tomatoes. He replied that only pomegranate juice had passed a clinical trial so start taking pomegranate juice.

My niece works in the food labeling industry and has mentioned that processed food has more opportunities to lose nutrients and get exposed to more contaminates than non-processed food simply because it gets more handling than non-processed food.

Casey59
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 3172
   Posted 4/24/2012 1:06 PM (GMT -6)   

To your original question, imtls, one thing for you to be aware of that I’ve read is that if you are using a pomegranate blend is to make sure it is 100% pure, with no added sugars, as the added sugars can take away from the antioxidant effect.  A lot of guys here take the pomegranate extract pills instead of the juice for various reasons:  to avoid sugars, don’t like the juice taste (that’s my reason #1), easier to regulate daily intake (my reason #2), etc.

 

Sounds like you have a sharp doc…one who keeps up-to-date with the newest information on prostate cancer care!  Good for him/her, and more importantly good for you!

Many docs are recommending pomegranate because it’s high antioxidant index – it’s often called a “Super Antioxident.”   Lots of non-PC related health benefit studies have been published—you can read-up on the benefits to heart disease (the #1 killer of men with PC), diabetes regulation benefits, and added protection from several cancers…but for you, and your doctor, and most the other men here at HW it is the pomegranate’s chemoprevention/anticancer effect on PC that it the very exciting news for all of the PC community!    [Want to learn more details about pomegranate and differentiation (ability of PC cells to revert to their normal counterparts)?  You can find scholarly work published HERE.]

Beyond the general recommendation, increasingly you will find the docs that specialize on treating PC are specifically recommending pomegranate for advanced case patients who seek to increase their chances against PC metastasis (those that seek to “stack the odds in their favor,” as I like to phrase it). 

For example, Dr Nicholas Vogelzang (several guys here at HW see him, and he is chair and medical director of the developmental therapeutics committee at US Oncology in Las Vegas) was interviewed after the ASCO announcement (the one I previously mentioned, above); he called the impact of the study which confirmed results from previous studies “dramatic.”  In his practice, he “recommends pomegranate extract or juice a lot,” typically for men with rising PSA levels. 

imtls, while you won’t really know how much impact the pomegranate has in your own complex body/system (everyone responds differently to every type of medication), you know that you have science on your side in helping do your part to fight against increasing PSA.  Best wishes!!

 

 

 

edit:  typo

Post Edited (Casey59) : 4/24/2012 2:51:56 PM (GMT-6)


Piy
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2010
Total Posts : 142
   Posted 4/24/2012 1:45 PM (GMT -6)   
We asked Dr. Myers this question during our visit a few weeks ago and he recommends the full spectrum capsules from Life Extension. He feels they are superior and they don't add additional sugar to your diet. We asked about interaction and he said there is no interaction concern with Pomegranate, and his background is pharmaceutical. So that's what we're doing.

medved
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 968
   Posted 4/24/2012 2:51 PM (GMT -6)   
Piy - do you know whether Dr. Myers receives any financial compensation from Life Extension?

Piy
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2010
Total Posts : 142
   Posted 4/24/2012 3:08 PM (GMT -6)   
medved - No I do not know if Dr. Myers receives anything from LE.
Dx June 2007 - age 48
davinci RRP October 2007
75% involved -G9
Positive margin/Scans clear/No detectable mets
SRT - Feb 2008
PSA:
At Dx: 8
Mar 09: 0.4 /Jun 09: 0.7 /Aug 09: 1.7
Feb 10: .008 /Jul 10: .006 /Sep 10: .005
Mar 11: .06 /Aug 11: .8 /Oct 11: 2.01
Feb 12: 2.7 / Mar: 3.78
Choline PET scan at Mayo Rochester-Nov 2011
Began Dr. Leibowitz "Three Pronged Approach" protocol in Aug 2009

Casey59
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 3172
   Posted 4/24/2012 3:31 PM (GMT -6)   
Life Extension has a leading reputation for quality and purity among OTC supplements; not just pomegranate extract.

As F8 and others here have mentioned, POM Wonderful has a subscription program for mailing the extract pills; you can sign-up online. I think Life Extension does the same thing. Both companies make it easy for doctor recommendations...sometimes it's hard to find pomegranate extract in the neighborhood drug store.

Jerry L.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 2432
   Posted 4/24/2012 3:43 PM (GMT -6)   
In my appointment with Dr. Myers he recommended various supplements from multiple businesses, not just LE. He was completely fine with the POM extract pills. He has done extensive research on quality control of supplements.
HISTORY PSA

11/09 Dx at Age 44 4.03
12/09 DaVinci Surgery
1/10 T3b, G9 <.05
2/10 Adj. Radiation <.05
3/11 PSA Rise/Scans/Spot .09
on Pelvic Bone
4/11 HT / XGEVA ,06
5/11 Spot Radiation <.05
12/11 - 4/12 Scans - Stable <.01

FoxRun
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts : 619
   Posted 4/24/2012 6:44 PM (GMT -6)   
F8 said...
the Pom capsules are the way to go. i get them delivered in the mail on a subscription basis so all i have to do is take a capsule every day. been doing that for two years. if you are drinking POM for the taste i'd buy the one that tastes better to you.
studies do show that pomegranate does slow the progression of PC.

ed


Now you have my attention......are they available here in Canada and I wonder if they are covered under any drug plan?
Age 52, Stage T2c, Gleason grade 8-10
PSA level of 10.6 no symptoms whatsoever.
Ct scan and Bone scan negative
my diagnosis is considered a high risk disease and my treatment EBR + Barchy Seed Implants + HT
50mg of Bicalutamide tablets per day first 30 days
22.5 mg Lupron for 12 months
PSA value: 5.5 May 2011, 0.03 Nov 2011, undectable Feb 2012
T levels 1.66 Nov 2011, 1.?? Feb 2012.

F8
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3256
   Posted 4/24/2012 7:49 PM (GMT -6)   
Foxrun -- i'm not sure.  i pay for my own POMx, which is less than $30 a month.  here is POM's contact info. good luck!
 
 
ed
 
 
age: 57
PSA on 12/09: 6.8
gleason 3+4 = 7
HT, BT and IGRT
received 3rd and last lupron shot 9/14/10
2/8/11 PSA <.1, T= 6 ng/dl
6/8/11 PSA .2, T = 540 ng/dl
8/19/11 PSA .3, T = 487 ng/dl
10/5/11 PSA .2, T = 530 ng/dl
3/1/12 PSA .3

F8
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 3256
   Posted 4/24/2012 7:52 PM (GMT -6)   
i also eat frozen pomergranate fruit bars.  they are delicious and a little pricey.  they are made by one of the big companies like dreyer's.  the popcicles make a great evening treat.
 
ed
 
 
age: 57
PSA on 12/09: 6.8
gleason 3+4 = 7
HT, BT and IGRT
received 3rd and last lupron shot 9/14/10
2/8/11 PSA <.1, T= 6 ng/dl
6/8/11 PSA .2, T = 540 ng/dl
8/19/11 PSA .3, T = 487 ng/dl
10/5/11 PSA .2, T = 530 ng/dl
3/1/12 PSA .3

FoxRun
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts : 619
   Posted 4/24/2012 9:08 PM (GMT -6)   
F8 said...
Foxrun -- i'm not sure. i pay for my own POMx, which is less than $30 a month. here is POM's contact info. good luck!
http://www.pomwonderful.com/about/contact/

ed


Thx.....I'll give it a try!
 
 
I still haven't heard back from my inquiry I sent them.
 
Meanwhile, I will ask my family Doctor for his opinion during my next visit and 3 month checkup.
Age 52, Stage T2c, Gleason grade 8-10
PSA level of 10.6 no symptoms whatsoever.
Ct scan and Bone scan negative
my diagnosis is considered a high risk disease and my treatment EBR + Barchy Seed Implants + HT
50mg of Bicalutamide tablets per day first 30 days
22.5 mg Lupron for 12 months
PSA value: 5.5 May 2011, 0.03 Nov 2011, undectable Feb 2012
T levels 1.66 Nov 2011, 1.?? Feb 2012.

Post Edited (FoxRun) : 4/26/2012 8:58:46 AM (GMT-6)


Mom beat cancer
New Member


Date Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts : 1
   Posted 7/9/2012 8:07 AM (GMT -6)   
100% pomegranate juice NOT from concentrate (NFC) is by far superior to juice from concentrate.
 
The process that juice go through in order to be made into concentrate is a process that heats up the NFC juice to high temperatures in order to reduce/concentrate the juice - this process involves heat which destroys much if not most of the nutriets, anti-oxidents etc that the juice contains.  Before being sold, water is added to the concentrate again to get the volume lost through the concentration process back (the two main reasons for concentrating the juice is a)  Transport is cheaper and b) you add more water before bottling than what you concentrated out, so you actually increase volume).  Basically, you may as well be drinking sugar water.
 
In the UK there is a huge push to educate the public about this - e.g. see M&S shelves where it is now clearly and 'loudly' advertised that their juice is not from concentrate.
 
Be careful to read the label though - juice only have to contain something like 5% of pomegrante juice to be called 100% pomegranate juice - SO, check that it was not mixed with other juice (normally grape or apple).  You want a pure pomegranate juice, not a mix.
 
Lastly, if you buy NFC juice it will actually taste like a pomegranate tastes like - and is deliscious.  Juice from concentrate tastes really bad!
 
Hope this helps.
 
 

FoxRun
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts : 619
   Posted 7/9/2012 8:43 AM (GMT -6)   
What an interesting post and all this time I've been reading these "Juices's from concentrate" messages the wrong way.
 
Mom beat cancer said...
100% pomegranate juice NOT from concentrate (NFC) is by far superior to juice from concentrate.
 
The process that juice go through in order to be made into concentrate is a process that heats up the NFC juice to high temperatures in order to reduce/concentrate the juice - this process involves heat which destroys much if not most of the nutriets, anti-oxidents etc that the juice contains.  Before being sold, water is added to the concentrate again to get the volume lost through the concentration process back (the two main reasons for concentrating the juice is a)  Transport is cheaper and b) you add more water before bottling than what you concentrated out, so you actually increase volume).  Basically, you may as well be drinking sugar water.
 
In the UK there is a huge push to educate the public about this - e.g. see M&S shelves where it is now clearly and 'loudly' advertised that their juice is not from concentrate.
 
Be careful to read the label though - juice only have to contain something like 5% of pomegrante juice to be called 100% pomegranate juice - SO, check that it was not mixed with other juice (normally grape or apple).  You want a pure pomegranate juice, not a mix.
 
Lastly, if you buy NFC juice it will actually taste like a pomegranate tastes like - and is deliscious.  Juice from concentrate tastes really bad!
 
Hope this helps.
 
 

Age 52, Stage T2c, Gleason grade 8-10
PSA level of 10.6 no symptoms whatsoever.
Ct scan and Bone scan negative
my diagnosis is considered a high risk disease and my treatment EBR + Brachy Seed Implants + HT
50mg of Bicalutamide tablets per day first 30 days
22.5 mg Lupron for 12 months
PSA value: 5.5 May 2011, 0.03 Nov 2011, undectable Feb 2012
T levels 1.66 Nov 2011, 1.?? Feb 2012.

blownsideways
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts : 127
   Posted 7/9/2012 10:32 AM (GMT -6)   
I'm going to wade into this discussion very carefully, given my post in another thread about studies (they tend to change with the wind).

Having said that, I have been reading studies about various dietary and supplementary approaches that might help keep prostate cancer at bay, especially post-op (as I am). My hope is that I can prevent the next logical step in my treatment - salvage radiation and hormone therapy.

So...I have been modifying my diet toward the classic Okinawan diet in combination with the Mediterranean diet (which I love). I feel that diet and lifestyle are the first line approaches to health, with supplements as a, well, supplement.

So, one of the studies I came across was compiled by the National Cancer Institute, which is part of the National Institutes of Health (NIH) - no fly-by-night organization. The summary looks at 4 foods and 2 supplements: green tea, lycopene, modified citrus pectin, soy (isoflavones), and Zyflamend. The summary looked at various studies performed on prostate cancer prevention AND prostate cancer reduction (after diagnosis of cancer).

The study can be seen here: tinyurl.com/78qm25r. In my reading, the three items that seem to hold the most promise are pomegranate, soy, and Zyflamend, although the others have some indications of positive outcomes.

Of course, as with everything, individual mileage may vary. And wait for another study due out soon that contradicts this one. Just adds to the fun!
Age 57
PSA 2/2012: 5.5
DRE: nodule on left side of prostate
Biopsy: 3 of 6 cores positive
Gleason score: 4+4
Pre Op CT Scan & Bone Scan clean
RRP: 6/13/2012
Post Op Pathology: all margins clean, Gleason Score 4+5, Seminal Vesicles not involved but tumor comes up to edge. Extension into the left nerve.
T3aN0MX
High Grade PIN
PSA at 2 weeks: 1.1
Incontinence getting better
Working on impotence
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