quad mix frequency of injection

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kiddoca
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts : 3
   Posted 9/12/2012 6:57 AM (GMT -6)   
I have been using the quad mix very successfully but was advised to use it only three times weekly. I must admit I have tended to use it more often. has anyone had experience using this or the trimix at a more frequent rate. If so how often. I have been using it for about 4 months. how many years has anyone been using it. any advice would help but I think it is a wonderful thing. no problems once I got the technique down

142
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Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 5846
   Posted 9/12/2012 7:27 AM (GMT -6)   
Welcome to HW. There are quite a few here using injectables, so you should get feedabck pretty quickly.
 
My instructions on trimix were no more than 3x a week, with at least 24 hours between injections.
Moderator - Prostate Cancer
(Not a medical professional)

DaVinci 10/2009
My adjuvant IGRT journey (2010) -
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=1756808

Steve n Dallas
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 3984
   Posted 9/12/2012 8:29 AM (GMT -6)   
If I'm not mistaken - the reason to NOT over use the product is to avoid scar tissue that could lead the the "what ya call" it disease where your penis can be crooked/bent and maybe unusable for intercourse.

Wouldn't have to tell me twice to be careful.

Tigerfan53
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Date Joined Jan 2011
Total Posts : 790
   Posted 9/12/2012 5:14 PM (GMT -6)   
Dr. John Mulhall says there is no evidence that shows scarring occurs from injection therapy as long as you
a.) switch sides each time and
b.) don’t inject more than 3 times a week.
Diagnosed Dec 2010 at age 53
09/2010 PSA 4.8
11/2010 PSA 5.1
11/2010 PSA 5.3 after antibiotics
12/2010 Biopsy: 50% in 1 of 12 cores, PIN, G6, T1c
03/2011 PSA 5.6
06/2011 RALP negative margins, G6, pT2b, PNI
09/2011 PSA < 0.05
12/2011 PSA < 0.05
06/2012 PSA < 0.05

Paul1959
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Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 596
   Posted 9/12/2012 6:09 PM (GMT -6)   
The latest thinking is that you can inject once a day. That is what we have our men do and they have never had any issues. The connection between injections and Peyronies has never been established.

Alberto
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Date Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts : 3
   Posted 9/24/2012 4:03 PM (GMT -6)   
I had used trimix up 20 units and i have no reaction
This trimix is phetolamine 30 MG/ paverine o.5MG/prostaglandine 10MCG/ML Vial
I will to up 30 units

142
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Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 5846
   Posted 9/24/2012 4:53 PM (GMT -6)   
Alberto
 
Welcome to HW.
 
It would be best if you start a new thread, and give us your PCa background, so that guys with similar experience can chime in to help.
 
I would say that going from 20 to 30 in one step could be very risky. My uro advises steps of no more than 10%. For me, a change from .10 to .13 was enough to generate a departure for the emergency room.
Did your Uro work with you on the first injection, and coach you on method & amounts?
Moderator - Prostate Cancer
(Not a medical professional)

DaVinci 10/2009
My adjuvant IGRT journey (2010) -
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=1756808

James C.
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Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4452
   Posted 9/24/2012 5:40 PM (GMT -6)   
kiddoca, if you don't mind, would you tell us what the 4 ingredients in your quad mix is, and preferrably the ratios of the drugs.
James C, 65, A Better Man /Injections? Read This
4/07: PSA 7.6, 3/16 PCa, 5% inv, lf. lobe, GS6
9/07: open RP, Path: pT2c, 110 gms., Prob. micro.inv.-left apical margin -GS6
5 Yrs: .04 'til 4/10-.06, 12/10-.09, 5/11-.08, 9/11-.14, 2/12-.10, 7/12-.13

kiddoca
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts : 3
   Posted 9/25/2012 7:33 AM (GMT -6)   
I am not at all sure of the exact mix. I just picked up the Rx. I use the quad mix at the same time cialis daily and viagra. It seems to work just fine. I get an erection that last 2 hours minimum. The question is is the cialis and viagra interfering with the function of the quadmix and causing it to become less available. if I did not use the viagra/cialis would the erection last longer. I am not sure as I know one of the ingredients of the quad mix is closely related to the ingredients in viagra and cialis. I guess the proof is that it works fine. I have discussed frequency of usage with the ED specialist at my urologists office and she says that she has patients that use it daily. My hope would be to use it as often as I wish. which I intend to do.

James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4452
   Posted 9/25/2012 10:48 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for the reply. In answer to your question, I think almost all ED experts, doctors and experienced users would say to not use an injectable with the pills. Given that you are doing so, I will have to guess you have been very fortunate that you haven't gone over 4 hrs, and had to got to the ER for a reduction. Since you don't know the ingredients of the quad mix, it's impossible to say if the drugs are like or similar. I'd suggest first to ask your prescribing doctor about using the pills with the injections. Second, I'd ask the doctor or the compounding pharmacist to write down for you the exact chemical names and the amount per ml of each of the 4 drugs. Then you should be able to tell about like drugs and such.

By the way, Viagra's chemical name is sildenafil citrate, cialis is tadalafil, Levitra is vardenafil, and Staxyn is vardenafil hydrochloride.
James C, 65, A Better Man /Injections? Read This
4/07: PSA 7.6, 3/16 PCa, 5% inv, lf. lobe, GS6
9/07: open RP, Path: pT2c, 110 gms., Prob. micro.inv.-left apical margin -GS6
5 Yrs: .04 'til 4/10-.06, 12/10-.09, 5/11-.08, 9/11-.14, 2/12-.10, 7/12-.13

kiddoca
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts : 3
   Posted 9/25/2012 12:05 PM (GMT -6)   
I believe the pill increase the blood flow to the penis and thus might decrease the duration of the erection by increasing the washout of the med. the proof is in the facts. I wil try to use it without the drugs and see what happens. it may actually increase the erection time. but we will see

PeterDisAbelard.
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts : 3711
   Posted 9/25/2012 1:30 PM (GMT -6)   
Kiddoca,

Actually, all the drugs we are talking about here do more or less the same thing.* They all work to relax the smooth muscles in the arteries in the corpus cavernosum. The injectable drugs do so directly. They act on the arterial walls to make them relax which lets your blood pressure make the arteries inflate. The pills suppress an enzyme called Phosphodiesterase 5 that destroys cGMP which is the substance that your body releases when you are sexually excited... to relax those same smooth muscles in the arteries in your Johnson.

You might ask your urologist if combining the quad mix with the Viagra is really doing much for you. You might be able to get the same bang (so to speak) for fewer bucks if you skipped the Viagra on quad mix days and adjusted the dose to compensate.

*unless the fourth drug in your quad mix is Lidocaine (four-drug mixes w/ an anaesthetic are usually still called Trimix).
59
gradual PSA rise 2007-2012 from 1.4 to 8
four biopsies 2010-2012:
1)negative (inflammation observed),
2)negative,
3)positive in one of 14 cores GS6(3+3) 3-4%, 2nd opinion gs7(3+4)
4)negative.
DaVinci RRP 6/14/2012
positive margins in apex and 1mm margin in base. GS9(4+5)
Started 24 mo ADT (Triple w/ Lupron) 7/26/12
sched for adjuvant radiation therapy

James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4452
   Posted 9/25/2012 1:55 PM (GMT -6)   
PeterDisAbelard, tell me more about the theory behind using lidocaine as a fourth drug. That's an interesting combo...
James C, 65, A Better Man /Injections? Read This
4/07: PSA 7.6, 3/16 PCa, 5% inv, lf. lobe, GS6
9/07: open RP, Path: pT2c, 110 gms., Prob. micro.inv.-left apical margin -GS6
5 Yrs: .04 'til 4/10-.06, 12/10-.09, 5/11-.08, 9/11-.14, 2/12-.10, 7/12-.13

PeterDisAbelard.
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts : 3711
   Posted 9/25/2012 2:45 PM (GMT -6)   
James,

Of the three drugs used in Trimix -- Papavarine, Phentolamine, Alprostadil (aka Prostaglandin) -- the best one is the Alprostadil. It gives the strongest effect with the smallest dosage and has the fewest side-effects overall. Unfortunately, it does have one problematic side-effect for some men: it hurts.

If you are one of the one men in three for whom prostaglandin causes a pain response you won't be able to use it as a single ED drug (Caverject and MUSE will be a problem) and the relatively smaller amount in Trimix may still give you an ache. If it does you can try Bi-mix (w/o the Alprostadil) but it doesn't work as well and, at an effective dose, tends to have more of the other side-effects.

Another option is to add a dab of anesthetic to the mix (I think it is usually Lidocaine). This numbs the nerves to the corpus cavernosa but doesn't tend to affect the penile sensory nerves as much. My urologist gave me a scrip for some but I haven't filled it yet since I still have a few weeks of my previous Trimix formula on hand and I am too cheap to throw it away -- I'll just play through the ache until the vial is gone.
59
gradual PSA rise 2007-2012 from 1.4 to 8
four biopsies 2010-2012:
1)negative (inflammation observed),
2)negative,
3)positive in one of 14 cores GS6(3+3) 3-4%, 2nd opinion gs7(3+4)
4)negative.
DaVinci RRP 6/14/2012
positive margins in apex and 1mm margin in base. GS9(4+5)
Started 24 mo ADT (Triple w/ Lupron) 7/26/12
sched for adjuvant radiation therapy

James C.
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4452
   Posted 9/25/2012 3:21 PM (GMT -6)   
Great answer and good reasoning on the medical aspect. Be sure to let us know when you do try it, I'd be interested in knowing if the ache is gone and how you feel and respond to a little numbing.. wink
James C, 65, A Better Man /Injections? Read This
4/07: PSA 7.6, 3/16 PCa, 5% inv, lf. lobe, GS6
9/07: open RP, Path: pT2c, 110 gms., Prob. micro.inv.-left apical margin -GS6
5 Yrs: .04 'til 4/10-.06, 12/10-.09, 5/11-.08, 9/11-.14, 2/12-.10, 7/12-.13

finish strong
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts : 1
   Posted 9/11/2013 5:57 AM (GMT -6)   
lidocaine would be the best choice since it is also a vasodilator, another possible ingredient to add would be duraclon which is injectable clonidine. Phentolamine and clonidine are specifically alpha blocker drugs which means more arterial rather than venous dilation. Phentolamine is more medically limited in use compared to old days when we used it to improve blood flow to distal limbs that were ischemic. Clonidine is costly but used in Europe. Lidocaine makes total sense to include in any injection. Prior to prosthesis placement but under anesthesia (my occupation), I have watched urologists inject 20-30 mls of normal saline to determine erection size and then chosen the appropriate prosthetic appropriately. Dorsal penile nerve blocks are done to provide pain relief, but they do also augment blood flow by blocking sympathetic nerve fibers. The anti-dotes for priapism are drugs that increase sympathetic tone such as cough meds.  Lidocaine and alpha blockers are mainstays from my perspective of injectables, not sure about the atropine.

PeterDisAbelard.
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts : 3711
   Posted 9/11/2013 10:21 AM (GMT -6)   
Welcome to the forum, Finish Strong, and thanks for the interesting observations.

What brings you to our forum? We focus primarily on prostate cancer but we will frequently have discussions on topics (such as this thread on intercavernous injections for ED) that deal with side effects of PCa treatments that are also of general interest to people outside our usual pool of participants. In any event, welcome, and if the reason you found yourself here is something you'd like to talk about feel free to say so, either by commenting further on this thread, starting a new thread or sending me an email (click the envelope icon under my name on the left).

Since you are a medical professional, you should remember that you are not participating in this forum in that capacity. It's not that we don't value your knowledge, its just that we don't want to find ourselves up to our keisters in lawyers.
60
Slow PSA rise 2007-2012: 1.4=>8
4 bxs 2010-2012:
1)neg (some inflammation),
2)neg,
3)positive 1 of 14 GS6(3+3) 3-4%, 2nd opinion GS7(3+4)
4)neg.
Mild Pre-op ED
DaVinci RRP 6/14/12. left nerve spared
Path: pT3a pN0 R1 GS9(4+5) Pos margins on rt
Start 24 mo ADT3 7/26/12
Adjuvant IMRT 66.6 Gy 10/17/12 - 12/13/12
Leaky but better, Trimix, VED
Forum Moderator - Not a Medical Professional

Post Edited (PeterDisAbelard.) : 9/11/2013 9:25:17 AM (GMT-6)


azsunshine2013
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2013
Total Posts : 83
   Posted 9/11/2013 11:31 AM (GMT -6)   
Kiddoca: the amount of each drug is on the label of the rx you picked up.
 
Here is an example of the label and how them meds are listed.  Each pharmacy might be different, however, by law, the medications must be listed.
 

Husband (age 62): Da Vinci on May 9, 2013
Gleason: 3+3
14 core biopsy: 1 small spot of cancer found on one core.
Pathology good: cancer contained in the prostate, Gleason did not change.
3 month PSA: <.1

njw_753@yahoo.com





I am not a member of the medical industry and anything I say is not intended or implied to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment.

Post Edited (azsunshine2013) : 9/11/2013 10:46:51 AM (GMT-6)


Tall Allen
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts : 1890
   Posted 9/11/2013 12:35 PM (GMT -6)   
I've seen Quad Mix where they add forskolin. Similar to alprostadil and papaverine, it increases cyclic AMP, which relaxes cavernous smooth muscle, allowing for an erection.

PeterDisAbelard.
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts : 3711
   Posted 9/11/2013 12:48 PM (GMT -6)   
Sunshine,

This thread is coming up on an anniversary; it will be one year old tomorrow. Kiddoca seems to have only popped in for that one day last year.

Kiddoca,

Inactive members are always welcome to return and tell us how they are doing.
60
Slow PSA rise 2007-2012: 1.4=>8
4 bxs 2010-2012:
1)neg (some inflammation),
2)neg,
3)positive 1 of 14 GS6(3+3) 3-4%, 2nd opinion GS7(3+4)
4)neg.
Mild Pre-op ED
DaVinci RRP 6/14/12. left nerve spared
Path: pT3a pN0 R1 GS9(4+5) Pos margins on rt
Start 24 mo ADT3 7/26/12
Adjuvant IMRT 66.6 Gy 10/17/12 - 12/13/12
Leaky but better, Trimix, VED
Forum Moderator - Not a Medical Professional

azsunshine2013
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2013
Total Posts : 83
   Posted 9/11/2013 1:25 PM (GMT -6)   
I see that now. It was FinishStrong's post that made me think it was a new thread.
Husband (age 62): Da Vinci on May 9, 2013
Gleason: 3+3
14 core biopsy: 1 small spot of cancer found on one core.
Pathology good: cancer contained in the prostate, Gleason did not change.
3 month PSA: <.1

I am not a member of the medical industry and anything I say is not intended or implied to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment.
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