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craig10
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 98
   Posted 2/27/2013 2:58 PM (GMT -6)   
Question-- I guess pomegranite lowers psa? Does that mean it masks ca. or is a holistic benefit?
age 55, married, kids and grandkids
2008 psa 4.7
2010 psa 5.5
biopsy 2-10 -- 3 of 12 samples positive ca 60% 25% and 20%
perineural invasion not seen
location rt apex
3+4=7
DaVinci rp on 3-15-10 city of hope
Dr. Kawachi
nerves spared both sides
biopsy-- clean margins, organ conf
6 mos and 1 year psa <.1 undetect.
year and a half psa 0.02 (I think the lab does a different assay.)

robertC
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2011
Total Posts : 969
   Posted 2/27/2013 3:19 PM (GMT -6)   
I think it slows the speed with which PSA rises. It does not mask PSA but is more holistic.
Gleason (3+4) 7, PSA 5 in Nov. 2010 age 63. cryoablation in Jan. 2011.
PSA April 29 2011 <,04, Jan. 12 .05, July 12 .06, , 12/24/12 .04
Taking metformin and low meat diet Spring 2012. Some supplements.

davidg
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 4093
   Posted 2/27/2013 3:47 PM (GMT -6)   
and it goes down like napalm. They have pills if you don't like the taste.
40 years old - Diagnosed at 40
Robotic Surgery Mount Sinai with Dr. Samadi Jan, 2011
complete urinary control and good erections with and without meds
Prostate was small, 34 grams.
Final Gleason score 7 (3+4)
Less than 5% of slides involved tumor
Tumor measured 5 mm in greatest dimension and was located in the right lobe near the apex.
Tumor was confined to prostate.
The apical, basal, pseudocapsular and soft tissue resection margins were free of tumor.
Seminal vesicles were free of tumor.
Right pelvic node - benign fibroadiopse tissue. no lymph node is identified.
Left pelvic node - one small lymph node, negative for tumor (0/1)

AJCC stage: pT2 NO MX

English Roger
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2011
Total Posts : 180
   Posted 2/27/2013 5:30 PM (GMT -6)   
 I started to take pomegranite after my RP 3 years ago I stopped taking it 6 Months ago
due to the financial cost.I then had my 6 monthly PSA test it was exactly the same without
pomegranite 0.04 with pomegranite 6 month later without pomegranite 0.04 does it work??????????
English Rodger.
Age 59 at diagnosis
PSA 9
Biopsy positive 4+3=7
15 May 2010
Gleason 4+3=7
Stage T2B
Perineum invasion
PSA at 3 months=undetectable
6 month PSA still 0.03
12 Mth PSA 0.04
18 Mth 0.03
2 Yr 0.03
33 mth 0.04
Incontinance no problem
ED came good now back to where i started ED a problem Viagra no help.

Joefrompgh
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 13
   Posted 2/28/2013 7:09 AM (GMT -6)   
English Roger....at 0.04, your PSA doesn't have much lower to go. Hoping you are blessed with that reading (or lower, if that is at all possible) forever!

That being said, without going into the studies, which have been reiterated on this forum a few times, pomegranite has been shown "generally" to slow PSA velocity in many men. One should be able to use the pill, rather than drinking the pure (and expensive) juice, I would think, to gain any real or perceived benefits. Please note: DO NOT USE POMEGRANITE IF USING STATINS!

English Roger
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2011
Total Posts : 180
   Posted 2/28/2013 7:19 AM (GMT -6)   
Thank Thank you I have just been put on satins forgot all about pomegranate and satins
thanks for reminding me
English Rodger.
Age 59 at diagnosis
PSA 9
Biopsy positive 4+3=7
15 May 2010
Gleason 4+3=7
Stage T2B
Perineum invasion
PSA at 3 months=undetectable
6 month PSA still 0.03
12 Mth PSA 0.04
18 Mth 0.03
2 Yr 0.03
33 mth 0.04
Incontinance no problem
ED came good now back to where i started ED a problem Viagra no help.

reachout
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 583
   Posted 2/28/2013 8:47 AM (GMT -6)   
I took PomX extract for about a year after my psa began rising. The psa just kept rising. Of course, it's possible it would have risen faster without the pomegranite. I went off the pomegranite once I began SRT, because I read that antioxidants should not be used during radiation. I asked the radiation nurse about that and she agreed.
Age: 66
PSA: bounced around from 2.6 to 5.6 over 2 years
Biopsy 8 of 12 +, G 3+4, T2a
DaVinci 9/09, path G 4+3, - M, NX, MX, T2c
Continent right away
ED pills did't work, Trimix works well
Post-surgery PSA:
12/09 <0.1
4/10 <0.014
6/10, 9/10, 12/10 <0.1
4/11, 5/11, 9/11 all .05
12/11 .06, 3/12 0.13!, 6/12 0.14, 9/12 0.17, 12/12 0.26

John T
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 3733
   Posted 2/28/2013 12:30 PM (GMT -6)   
The only thing we reliably say about POM is that it slows the rate of progression in recurring prostate cancer. This is all the data shows. To say it reduces psa or helps in preventing PC or slows it down without a primary treatment are all speculation.
We can infer that because it slows down recurring cancer it also works on other cancers, but we have no data to prove it.
66 years old, rising psa for 10 years from 4 to 40; 12 biopsies and MRIS all negative. Oct 2009 DXed with G6 <5%. Color Doppler biopsy found 2.5 cm G4+3. Combidex clear. Seeds and IMRT, 4 weeks of urinary frequency and urgency; no side affects since then. 3 years of psa's all at 0.1.

medved
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 968
   Posted 2/28/2013 1:45 PM (GMT -6)   
I would say all we can reliably say about POM is this:  in a couple of very small studies, funded by a pomegranate juice and pill seller (but conducted by reputable doctors), and without any control group, the POM appears to have increased PSADT.  Anything beyond that is not supported by credible medical evidence, as far as I know.
I am not a medical professional, and nothing I write is medical advice.

Passages
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts : 695
   Posted 2/28/2013 3:58 PM (GMT -6)   
Just on FYI, not a commentary. Years ago my husband was in a Pom study. After a few months he was removed from the study, because his PSA had risen. This is not to say it won't work, since there is such a variety and layered outlook with PCa and everyone seems to respond so differently.
now 67, dx 49 PSA 4.2 RP 95
5+ yrs later radiation,
Study pom PSA rise.
7+ yrs Lupron
9/12 path arm break, bone mets, tumors. Study For Custersen. Control on Taxotere 9 treatments 10/18/11-4/12 PSA 5.2.
Zytiga -no se but PSA up to 57-5/12 to 7/12
8/12 started Jevtana
9/26 PSA 46.6 Se fatigue, chemo brain.
10/15 45.3
11/6 45.2
12/4/12 54.4
12/28 PSA 70.
1/15 PSA 85 - start Xtandi
2/21/13 PSA 16

Casey59
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 3172
   Posted 2/28/2013 4:17 PM (GMT -6)   

There seems to be both interest and speculation in this thread about pomegranate & pomegranate juices.  Here's some summary information:

 

Pomegranate juice has been characterized as a “super fruit” because of its powerful antioxidant characteristics.  It is a food, not a drug (and as such, has proponents and detractors—as you have seen here—based on flavor).

Industry has little motivation to conduct costly studies/trials on foods because there is no potential for patents, exclusive rights, and big profits.  You cannot patent a pomegranate.  None the less, several lower-level medical studies have been completed which have demonstrated clear benefit for men with progressing prostate cancer.

One of the most notable studies (known informally as the Carducci study, a Phase II clinical study) compared the sample population results of men with progressing PC.  The documented result was that 43% of the men using pomegranate had a PSADT which at least doubled.  (For reference, increasing PSADT, or PSA doubling time, means that PSA increases slowed down by half or more...that's favorable.)  In fact, a small portion of the men (13%) had a PSA which actually reversed.  These results were viewed as quite dramatic, and there were no significant down-sides.

The study results led many of the more learned clinicians with international reputations for treating advanced PC to recommend pomegranate to their patients with progressing PC.  (As a newcomer, you may not yet be familiar with these names like Myers, Lam, Scholz, Vogelzang; but if you continue to extend your patient education about PC, you will.)  In general, these PC experts recommend pomegranate tablets rather than drinking the juice because it completely foregoes the individual “taste” factor, plus the juice is high in sugar which many in our population need to watch carefully or reduce.  They do not recommend pomegranate to their PC patients with the intent of “curing cancer,” rather, as one of several strategic steps they recommend to help stack the odds in their favor for the most favorable outcome.  Like anything, no two patients’ response to pomegranate will be identical; and besides, the complex human diet would be extraordinarily difficult to isolate the independent impact of just one food.

The food company POM Wonderful owns a substantial number of the groves in the US that grow pomegranate.  They have promoted their product as being healthful for many reasons, including for men with prostate cancer.  The Federal Trade Commission challenged a small number of their advertisements for making benefit claims that were too close to being “drug-like” claims.  Drugs claims are held to a very high standard of “proof” and require FDA approvals following large, well-designed, well-conducted, randomized, double-blinded, placebo-controlled human clinical trials, or RCTs for short.  The drug industry can afford the required RCTs; the food industry cannot come close to affording the multi-million dollar cost of RCTs.  POM Wonderful cancelled the small number of advertisements that the FTC objected to.

Many men here who have subjected themselves to very radical treatment modes are seeking advantages within their control to reduce their risks for a worse disease than they would have if they did nothing different.  Many, myself included, have read the book by Dr David Servan-Schreiber titled “Anticancer:  A New Way of Life” (or other books) which promotes the efficacy of antioxidants as cancer-fighters. 

Without an RCT, you will never see the FDA claiming “proof” of the benefits of pomegranate.  In the mean time, choose for yourself...

 

Also, men on statins are cautioned against drinking grapefruit (also high in antioxidants) and pomegranate juices.


craig10
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 98
   Posted 2/28/2013 4:25 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks fellas-- that was useful----
age 55, married, kids and grandkids
2008 psa 4.7
2010 psa 5.5
biopsy 2-10 -- 3 of 12 samples positive ca 60% 25% and 20%
perineural invasion not seen
location rt apex
3+4=7
DaVinci rp on 3-15-10 city of hope
Dr. Kawachi
nerves spared both sides
biopsy,clean margins, organ conf-3+4=7,per.inv seen
6 mos and 1 year psa <.1 undetect.
2 yr. psa 0.02 ultra sens test
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