HIFU Vs Pro-Calefaction

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Royalpar1
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Date Joined Nov 2013
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 12/17/2013 9:21 AM (GMT -6)   
I have been getting emails from Ben Ong, about supplements and then about Pro Calefaction. I cannot seem to find very much information about it. Is this the same as HIFU ? Has anyone had the treatment and can you tell me about the side effects and the differences. I am unfortunately a noob and am currently doing AS , while i figure all of this out. The crazy part is that it is a descion i must make and the Drs. cannot.

142
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Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 5902
   Posted 12/17/2013 9:36 AM (GMT -6)   
Since your email is not made visible in your profile, I would think that the sender has picked you up from another site.

I looked for that with google, and it seems he is promoting a "cure". I am skeptical.
Moderator - Prostate Cancer
(Not a medical professional)

DaVinci 10/2009
My adjuvant IGRT journey (2010) -
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=1756808
HT (Lupron) 6-mo injection 9/12;Prolia 6-mo inj 12/12, 06/13

Royalpar1
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Date Joined Nov 2013
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 12/17/2013 9:54 AM (GMT -6)   
I am sceptical also, however he is not promoting a cure, but suggests Diet, Excercise and his supplements. Further to that he is reccomending a facility in Germany that does pro calefaction. It sounds like HIFU but am unsure.

142
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Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 5902
   Posted 12/17/2013 10:08 AM (GMT -6)   
I read enough that it set off my scam radar.

Tudpock18
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Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 2710
   Posted 12/17/2013 10:10 AM (GMT -6)   
Mine also.

Jim
Forum Moderator-Prostate Cancer. Age 62 (66 now), G 3 + 4 = 7, T1C, PSA 4.2, 2/16 cancerous, 27cc. Brachytherapy 12/9/08. 73 Iodine-125 seeds. Everything continues to function normally as of 7/13/13. PSA: 6 mo: 1.4, 1 yr: 1.0, 2 yr: .8, 3 yr: .5, 4 yr: .2. My docs are "delighted"! My journey:
http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=35&m=1305643&g=1305643#m1

Royalpar1
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Date Joined Nov 2013
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 12/17/2013 10:16 AM (GMT -6)   
Have you guys ever heard of him ? Is there many scams on PC ? I would imagine as its a very emotional and stress related occurence. Has anyone heard of the pro califcation?

142
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Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 5902
   Posted 12/17/2013 10:26 AM (GMT -6)   
We see something "new" every day. But the "new" part is a new way to separate someone under a lot of stress from their money.

I had never heard of it, and after reading the page that google finds, with all the claims and pop out pictures, I'm not wasting any more time on it. I would rather spend my time and money on something proven.

Royalpar1
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2013
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 12/17/2013 10:39 AM (GMT -6)   
I have updated my profile :)
Newbie
PSA 2.41 with Finasteride
MRI 11/11/13 with Tesla 3.00 with Gadolinium
Found low grade Maligncy confined to central gland in the left paramedian region
Doing AS and mucho praying, improved Diet, started to exercise and studying this ridiculous disease.

Tony Crispino
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 7665
   Posted 12/17/2013 1:18 PM (GMT -6)   
Royal,
Yes there are scammers in every walk of life and prostate cancer is not exempt. I see products on the supplement aisle at Walgreens pharmacy that are also on the take. 30 bucks a month to "promote" prostate health. It's a big dollar industry to prey on the uninformed. Always run these things by your physician. He should typically be telling you to diet right, exercise, and try to lead a healthy lifestyle. A heart healthy diet is a prostate healthy diet. And since you are far more likely to die of heart ailment it makes better sense anyway.

All the best!

Tony
Advanced Prostate Cancer Survivor
Patient Advocate and Support Group Leader

Not a medical professional!!!

C_Dillon
New Member


Date Joined Jan 2014
Total Posts : 2
   Posted 1/8/2014 12:49 PM (GMT -6)   
While I can't comment if Ben Ong is a scam artist (and his web site does have that "look", but it also has a lot of accurate information, helpful suggestions, etc.) and he does sell supplements and a book -- but so do other reputable supplement providers. I can, however, offer a bit of information on HIFU vs. his "Pro-Calefaction" (I have no idea where he got that name) from my own research after being diagnosed with PC. I was trying to find a focal, non-invasive option to a RP, and HIFU and Trans-Urethral Prostate Hyperthermia were the only two, non-radiation, focal methodologies I found.

HIFU has been approved and used in Europe and Canada for over 15 years, and has an established and well reported efficacy data. It has also been tested in the USA at some of the big med centers (NYU Langone Medical Center) and will probably be FDA approved "soon" (my translation = within a year to "we'll all be dead by then"). It involves high frequency radio waves, introduced trans-rectally to overheat and kill the cancer cells, while not harming the normal cells. It is a two day procedure at the Toronto, Canada hospital I spoke to about it. You do leave with a catheter, for about a week.

TUHP is a similar alternative treatment, using the similar theory that overheating the cancer cells causes them to die. It's methodology is introduced via the urethra and is given 2 times over the course of a week, along with other homeopathic, immune building treatments. There are at least a half-dozed clinics in Germany that do this for PC (you must, however, "fit" their criteria, which is chiefly that the PC is localized within the capsule -- although I have heard of cases that were more advanced). I was, however, not able to find any solid statistical information, trial results, or similar data, as I could with HIFU.

I am not a medical professional (but my younger brother is a doctor and he wanted me to "just have the RP, and get it out") but I wanted to look at the alternatives. I frankly like the TUPH idea, but I need more information than I have now. I decided against HIFU, for the same reason I eliminated all the radiation approaches (if after radiation, the PC comes back -- you can't re-radiate, and you have a scarred mess that most good surgeons wouldn't touch, so then RP is no longer an option either) when the aftermath of HIFU was similarly described. It may be that TUPH does that same thing, and would therefore not be a good long term choice either -- but I have not been able to confirm that so far. While I have surgery tentatively scheduled, I am still hoping to find a less dramatic path.

Diagnosed Nov 2012; PSA 5.0; Gleason 7 (3,4); 4/12 cores

Inchoation
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2014
Total Posts : 335
   Posted 1/8/2014 7:49 PM (GMT -6)   
I feel you, C_Dillon. I was told about HiFu during my initial dx appointment. I studied all the alternatives as that is what I would've preferred. I really wanted to do Gerson therapy but with the supposed "aggressive" cancer per my biopsy, it didn't seem worth the gamble. You, too, are a Gleason 7 just like was told to me.

Finally, I settled on the "scorched earth" philosophy. I weighed out side effects/quality of life vs. potentially having no more life at all. I'd always told myself if I ever got sick that radiation and chemo were out for me as I'm a big proponent of the body healing itself with dietary and exercise changes as well as better stress management techniques.

HiFu was exciting to me because it was off the beaten path but I didn't feel comfortable gambling on a newer technique with much less data behind it. You have been told similar things I was... Follow up radiation was a possibility if surgery didn't work but it wasn't going to work the other way around. Radiation seeding was the other thing kind of pushed upon me by my uro. I actually talked to the radiation surgeon and I never felt comfortable that he could "cure" me. I asked him point blank... Do you think you can cure a guy with my numbers? ... "I'd be optimistic." was his reply. I asked him wouldn't you be optimistic with every patient every time and he seemed irritated by the question. If he didn't feel really positive that he could fix me then I didn't want to go down the road with him and I'd already decided radiation wasn't the way for me leaving me with Gerson type treatment options, AS, or surgery. Keep telling me I may die if I just do nothing and I jumped at the chance to have surgery.

Best of luck with your decision...it's one of the most difficult parts of the journey. Finding peace regarding your best treatment option is what every man wants. Hoping that peace finds you and stays joined at your hip, soon.

As for scams, guys like us are prime candidates to get scammed considering they're going right after some of our identity as a man and life itself. We all want to believe.

142
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Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 5902
   Posted 1/8/2014 8:18 PM (GMT -6)   
While I was doing my research, I started getting emails from a facility that did HIFU. They even went so far as to send a partially completed application for a mortgage to a bank they worked with on my home for medical expenses. They didn't know I was in an apartment.

When it became clear my insurance did not cover it, and I was not a cash cow, they lost interest very quickly.

Smelled like a scam to me. Treated it like one.

samham55
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts : 48
   Posted 1/8/2014 11:49 PM (GMT -6)   
Royal,

I was diagnosed with PC in 2004 at age 66. All 11 samples were cancerous with Gleason 3+4. Since all samples were cancerous, I chose not to have the prostate removed because I thought the chance that it had spread was high. I had 2 Lupron shots to reduce the size of the prostate, then 25 beam radiations followed by seed implants. 4 years later my PSA started rising and my Urologist said that the cancer was back. He started me on Lupron and said that he could get me into my 80's if something else did not get me first.

I did a lot of online research then and learned about HIFU. Since it was not approved in the US, I communicated with a DR in Mexico who tried to convince me to come down and be treated. One of my sons' in-laws are both doctors. They suggested that I get a second opinion from who they considered to be the top Urologist in the Chicago area. He talked me out of HIFU and referred me to a top Oncologist in the Chicago area and I have been very happy with my results. This Oncologist leads an USTOO chapter and I have learned so much at these meetings about many areas such as; diet such as not eating read meet, exercising, taking calcium pills, positive thinking and what's newly approved and in trials for treating PC.

Life is good.

Sam
Age now - 75
DX 7/2004, 11/11, Gleason 3-4
2 Lupron shots, 25 beam radiation, seed implants
Cancer back 7/2008, Started hormone therapy
10/30/13, PSA rising (4.58 before Lupron shot 4.95 3 mo later). Bone scan clear, CT scan showed 2 lymph nodes slightly enlarged. Starting Provenge and Casodex.

C_Dillon
New Member


Date Joined Jan 2014
Total Posts : 2
   Posted 1/9/2014 9:36 AM (GMT -6)   
Inchoation said...
I feel you, C_Dillon. I was told about HiFu during my initial dx appointment. I studied all the alternatives as that is what I would've preferred. I really wanted to do Gerson therapy but with the supposed "aggressive" cancer per my biopsy, it didn't seem worth the gamble. You, too, are a Gleason 7 just like was told to me.

Finally, I settled on the "scorched earth" philosophy. I weighed out side effects/quality of life vs. potentially having no more life at all. I'd always told myself if I ever got sick that radiation and chemo were out for me as I'm a big proponent of the body healing itself with dietary and exercise changes as well as better stress management techniques.

HiFu was exciting to me because it was off the beaten path but I didn't feel comfortable gambling on a newer technique with much less data behind it. You have been told similar things I was... Follow up radiation was a possibility if surgery didn't work but it wasn't going to work the other way around. Radiation seeding was the other thing kind of pushed upon me by my uro. I actually talked to the radiation surgeon and I never felt comfortable that he could "cure" me. I asked him point blank... Do you think you can cure a guy with my numbers? ... "I'd be optimistic." was his reply. I asked him wouldn't you be optimistic with every patient every time and he seemed irritated by the question. If he didn't feel really positive that he could fix me then I didn't want to go down the road with him and I'd already decided radiation wasn't the way for me leaving me with Gerson type treatment options, AS, or surgery. Keep telling me I may die if I just do nothing and I jumped at the chance to have surgery.

Best of luck with your decision...it's one of the most difficult parts of the journey. Finding peace regarding your best treatment option is what every man wants. Hoping that peace finds you and stays joined at your hip, soon.

As for scams, guys like us are prime candidates to get scammed considering they're going right after some of our identity as a man and life itself. We all want to believe.


So how did your surgery work out for you? Did you have robotic or open? What was your experience?

John T
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 3732
   Posted 1/9/2014 3:57 PM (GMT -6)   
You can search The New Prostate Cancer Info Link or the PCRI website on the effectiveness of HIFU treatments. The best summary I have found is:

http://prostate-cancer.org/PDFs/Is14-1_p14-20.pdf

There is a very good reason that many European countries and Japan have discontinues HIFU as a treatment. The reoccurrance rates are far above any of the other conventional treatments available.
68 years old, rising psa for 10 years from 4 to 40; 12 biopsies and MRIS all negative. Oct 2009 DXed with G6 <5%. Color Doppler biopsy found 2.5 cm G4+3. Combidex clear. Seeds and IMRT, 4 weeks of urinary frequency and urgency; no side affects since then. 4 years of psa's all at 0.1.

Inchoation
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2014
Total Posts : 335
   Posted 1/9/2014 8:40 PM (GMT -6)   
C_Dillon said...
Inchoation said...
I feel you, C_Dillon. I was told about HiFu during my initial dx appointment. I studied all the alternatives as that is what I would've preferred. I really wanted to do Gerson therapy but with the supposed "aggressive" cancer per my biopsy, it didn't seem worth the gamble. You, too, are a Gleason 7 just like was told to me.

Finally, I settled on the "scorched earth" philosophy. I weighed out side effects/quality of life vs. potentially having no more life at all. I'd always told myself if I ever got sick that radiation and chemo were out for me as I'm a big proponent of the body healing itself with dietary and exercise changes as well as better stress management techniques.

HiFu was exciting to me because it was off the beaten path but I didn't feel comfortable gambling on a newer technique with much less data behind it. You have been told similar things I was... Follow up radiation was a possibility if surgery didn't work but it wasn't going to work the other way around. Radiation seeding was the other thing kind of pushed upon me by my uro. I actually talked to the radiation surgeon and I never felt comfortable that he could "cure" me. I asked him point blank... Do you think you can cure a guy with my numbers? ... "I'd be optimistic." was his reply. I asked him wouldn't you be optimistic with every patient every time and he seemed irritated by the question. If he didn't feel really positive that he could fix me then I didn't want to go down the road with him and I'd already decided radiation wasn't the way for me leaving me with Gerson type treatment options, AS, or surgery. Keep telling me I may die if I just do nothing and I jumped at the chance to have surgery.

Best of luck with your decision...it's one of the most difficult parts of the journey. Finding peace regarding your best treatment option is what every man wants. Hoping that peace finds you and stays joined at your hip, soon.

As for scams, guys like us are prime candidates to get scammed considering they're going right after some of our identity as a man and life itself. We all want to believe.


So how did your surgery work out for you? Did you have robotic or open? What was your experience?


I had robot assisted Davinci (nerve sparing) not sure why that isn't showing at bottom of my postings?

Everything is a matter of perception, but my perception is it was a smashing success. Both nerve bundles were spared and referred to as "very robust" and who doesn't like hearing that? :) I had nearly full continence control at 10 weeks save for hitting a golf ball, and that's improving each time out. I was able to have usable erections from post surgery on. I'm about 50% in that regard. I took Cialis for one month but am averse to drugs so stopped and take certain nerve regenerating supplements. Surgeon said in 2-3 months I should be back to what I was prior to surgery which was very good. Not close to that but feel extremely hopeful and confident I'll return almost as good as new. It is odd having dry orgasms but there's upside to that.

My pathology was clean which I deemed far more important than the news of nerves being spared and the flawless nature of the procedure.

I'm 4 months out from catheter removal and feel very much the same energy levels and in some ways more now that cancer and prostatitis are no longer factors for me. I suffered some bad prostatitis which was the only reason I was clued into cancer. I would've had surgery just to stop the chronic prostatitis it seemed I developed. That would've been more life altering than the side effects from surgery. Lots of bonuses with doing surgery. Do I wish I still had my wally walnut gland? Absolutely, but not if it wasn't going to be 100% and it wasn't, so I'm glad it's gone.

If I had to do it all over again given the same choices being through this...I would choose this again. There is nothing else I would've felt enough confidence in to do instead, or I'd have chosen that.

Hoping you get your peace about having surgery, or you find an alternative that brings it to you.
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