Kefir Enema instead of Fecal transplant

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ubereem
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2012
Total Posts : 37
   Posted 3/27/2012 2:44 PM (GMT -6)   
Hello,
 
I have tried a fecal transplant for 8 days and it didnt work.  Performing one of these at home isnt the easiest thing, i however havent given hope and am thinking about doing it again.  From reading other peoples posts it looks like they did these far long in duration than 8 days, some even a month or more.  Again doing this for such a long time would be very difficult.
 
I know pple have done yogurt/probiotic enema's but i hear kefir is far more potent. What do you guys think about doing a Kefir enema for a month or so?  has anyone tried it?
 
thanks

Post Edited (ubereem) : 3/27/2012 5:32:03 PM (GMT-6)


deltaforce
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Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 1841
   Posted 3/28/2012 5:43 AM (GMT -6)   
What is your theory? If its just bacteria you are talking about then why not take enteric coated probiotic supplement? Have you considered kefir pH, should you still have ulcers and how they will react?
Diagnosed March 2007 with left sided UC at the age of 30.
Currently on,
Colazal 9 daily, Imuran, 200mg daily, Vit. B12, 1mg, Multivitamin, 1 tablet daily, Fish oil 2400mg daily, Vit D 2000 IU daily.

Verapamil 240mg for migraine, Migraine episode now at least twice a month,
Ibuprofen 400mg is the only solution (but leads to bleeding). Looking for alternatives.

i_love_coffee
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2010
Total Posts : 635
   Posted 3/28/2012 7:24 AM (GMT -6)   
i did one kefir GRAIN  enema so far. 
 
I also drink a cup of homemade kefir mixed with some frozen fruit in the blender for breakfast. I make my own homemade kefir. In fact, I am not sure why more of us ucers dont drink hm kefir as the probiotics in it number in the trillions, and it has the ability to actually colonize the gi tract. Please read up more on kefir and its health and probioltic benefits. doms kefir site is the most comprehensive one around.
 
anyway, the more you make kefir , the more your kefir grains multiply so i took the excess grains, mixed them with chammomile tea and put it in the blender,  then into a cleaned old rowasa container.  You are not injecting the actual kefir you drink, but the GRAINS blended up with chammomile tea.  I got the idea from this site:
 
I am coming off of a flare, and i have been doing better for the week previous to the kefir grain eneama so i cant say if it did anything.  It did not hurt.  Mentally though i felt as if all these trillions of probiotics were going stright to the source (: the site i found states you have to do them for i think it say a week-10 days. 
UC dx 1991, Pancolitis but in patches CURRENT:4inch isolated patch of inflamation in recto-sigmoid,
Meds: Lialda,rowasa, omeprazole
supplements: psyllium seed ,calcium/d3, fish oil,multivit, jarrows sach. boulardi,,benebiotics
Diet: lactose intolerant Limit: sugar/alcohol/high acid foods(gerd)/vinegar/processed
gluten free as of: 2/24. daily homemade kefir. no caffeine during flares really help

Eva Lou
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Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 3060
   Posted 3/28/2012 8:51 AM (GMT -6)   
Hey I love coffee, glad to hear your grains are flourishing & that you're enjoying them! I agree with you, about UC'ers drinking kefir- there's no reason not to! For the original question... I can't bring myself to voluntarily do any kind of enema!

diagnosed 2002
Asacol
Remicade-10mgs/kg- from 4/07 thru 1/10
Humira- 1/10- present
Imuran- 150mgs/day
homemade kefir

i_love_coffee
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2010
Total Posts : 635
   Posted 3/28/2012 12:51 PM (GMT -6)   

Eva Lou, thanks again:) :) :)

yes, after a couple of batches, i finally got it going.

i took your advice and I let it ferment for 2 days.

mixed with fruit it still is a tiny bit sour, its an aquired taste, but i like it well enough.  the store bought stuff definitely tastes better, but i'd rather have the health benefits of homemade. 

i know you said you dont like rectal meds, but I attribute rowasa (mesalamine enemas) as one of the #1 things that has helped me out of my previous flares, so when i read about kefir grain enemas i could not resist.

 

ubereem: do you do any rectal meds now?


ubereem
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2012
Total Posts : 37
   Posted 3/28/2012 1:26 PM (GMT -6)   
i_love_coffee


Thats exactly where i got my inspiration to think of this, it was through Dom's site. So you are telling me that you have done the kefir grains enema and it worked for you? did you do it for 10 days?

i_love_coffee
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2010
Total Posts : 635
   Posted 3/29/2012 11:26 AM (GMT -6)   

ubereem: i did the kefir grain enema 1x.  i did not have enough excess grains to do more, and i would rather use the grains that i have to make homemade kefir on a daily basis and get a continual supply of all those healthy probiotics ( which i have read may number in the trillions)

I can not say it did anything to help because for the week prior i have really been doing much better (no blood in stool, still mild urgency though), so whether or not it did anything is anybodies guess.  i just happened to have a small amount of  excess grains.  i have also read that you can put the excess grains in a blender with your kefir for that extra shot of probiotics.  I dont think it harmed me by doing it, i felt no worse.

I definitely think its worth trying.  If you really wanted to do this for the 10 day-2 week period you could buy enough grains, there are a bunch of places online you could purchase grains. culture for health or something like that seems reputable. 

looking at the recipe for hm kefir grain enema on doms site, i only used chammomile tea and the kefir grains, i did not use the slippery elm because i have tried slippery elm before, and the next day, whether it was a coincidence or not, i had more bleeding. so i figured i would try slippery elm later on at some point to see if i could tolerate it.

 

the two main things that i have done that i think have pushed me closer to remission (besides my 4 a day lialda and nightly rowasa) is to give up all caffeine and for a week i added a second rectal (hydrocort enema) a half an hour  before i got up for the day.

 

 


ubereem
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2012
Total Posts : 37
   Posted 3/29/2012 6:50 PM (GMT -6)   
lialda and nightly rowasa are not an option for me

i_love_coffee
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2010
Total Posts : 635
   Posted 3/30/2012 7:20 AM (GMT -6)   

are you allergic to 5asa?

Have you ever tried hydrocort enemas?

what are your current symptoms and where is your inflammation?


ubereem
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2012
Total Posts : 37
   Posted 3/30/2012 2:52 PM (GMT -6)   
yes highly allergic, 5asa gave me the UC. going about 10 times a day, been in a flare for about 1.5 years
i have tried hydrocort, didnt really work

Raw
New Member


Date Joined Jun 2012
Total Posts : 1
   Posted 6/17/2012 3:36 AM (GMT -6)   
Dear Ubereem,

I'm interested in doing kefir grain enema but don't have any experience.
I make water kefir myself and read Dom information about the kefir grain rectal implant.

Could you kindly tell me how much water you use to do kefir grain enema with chammomile tea?
In Dom website, he suggest to blend 2 table spoon kefir grain with 1/4 cup chamomile tea and implant.
I wonder if we can add about 1 litter water to the solution to do normal enema?

Love & light

Old Mike
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 2374
   Posted 6/17/2012 10:12 AM (GMT -6)   
FT should be much better than any probiotic or kefir. The difference between FT and any other form of probiotic is that the strains
are all human adapted. Also there are many thousands more different types of bacteria in FT.
As to why FT did not work ubereem dont know,I do know you can kill a lot of the bacteria if you mix with too much air,or kill them osmotically depending if you dilute with water or salt water,or any type of water,especially if it has active chlorine.
Old Mike

bananagirl
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2011
Total Posts : 4331
   Posted 6/17/2012 10:50 AM (GMT -6)   
could someone post the website where it shows you how to make kefir?
 
i have never had it before and would like to try it if it has a lot of probiotics.
Joanna, 22
Did 8 fecal transplants- got much worse.
i'm taking- probiotics, vit d, low dose naltrexone
tried- canasa, pred, 6mp, remicade, rowasa, lialda, endocort, l-glut, vit e enema, VSL enema, aloe vera, NAG, prilosec, zofran, psyllium, bentyl, cipro, flagyl
no meat, dairy, eggs, gluten. include-fresh juices, fruits, veggies, greens, grains, soy, beans, nuts/seeds

Old Mike
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 2374
   Posted 6/17/2012 7:03 PM (GMT -6)   
One possibility to get probiotics if you don't want milk, is homemade sourkraut,my son is making some
now,it is only a week old but you can taste the lacto in it.
These bacteria are also of course not human adapted.
I ate some,we will see what kind of gas I get from it.
Seems that it would not make a good enema though.
Old Mike

Jimbo NZ
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2012
Total Posts : 363
   Posted 6/17/2012 8:54 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Mike,

Interested to hear how teh home made sauerkraut goes.

I have made it and i find it didn't create that much gas at all. Maybe a little the first time, but compared with normal Cabbage it's virtually nil. I guess the theory is eth lacto is predigesting the gaseous compounds. I find home made Sauerkraut delicious.

I've had to stop home made yoghurt and kefir for now as i am not reacting that well to it. Skin rashes etc. Despite enjoyigne th taste and eth process fo making it. So for now home-made sauerkraut for me is the way forward. You can of course use kefir whey to sart boost eth sauerkraut fermenting process and you can make other fermented veg but i haven't tried that yet.

Let me knmow how you go.
UC dx in 1999. Living in New Zealand
Moderately active symptoms over last 4 years. Pentasa, Asacol and Prednisone no longer induce long-term remission for me. Taking new path with currently on GAPS Diet + 200mg DHEA, 5mg HydroCort, ProBiotics, fermented cod liver oil, Vit B conc. Mineral drops

Lodi
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2012
Total Posts : 679
   Posted 6/17/2012 9:40 PM (GMT -6)   
Sorry, I don't have anything to add about the kefir enema.

Further to the sauerkraut conversation, in Canada you can buy a traditionally prepared brand at the health food store. It is called Bubbies and it's so good! The also sell fermented pickles and relish plus a few more products that are high quality but that I don't think are fermented.

ILCoffee, with kefir, would you expect to have a change in bowel symptoms? I thought I read somewhere that one can expect some temporary changes when introducing some new bacteria. I happen to love, love love! kefir, and I try it out every two or three weeks, but I get some urgency and/or mucous afterwards (not necessarily right afterwards). Truthfully, I can't say with 100% certainty it is the kefir, because when I have experimented, I haven't been good at changing only the one variable. (This is my mistake I know). It makes me a bit nervous to keep trying.

Before UC, I could have a glass of kefir and I'd feel so revitalized, almost like I could feel the deliciousness go through every cell in my body. It seemed the perfect thing to down when I was in a hurry. I'd really like to have it again and even more so now that the bacteria could be of great benefit to me.

Do you have (or anyone have) any suggestions?

As far as other dairy, I don't seem to have any problems with hard cheeses, I've tried whipping cream in my coffee, and I've had to 'go' after, sour cream- I can't say for sure because what I ate it with(some delicious Indian food) could have been the problem, milk- haven't dared try it.

i_love_coffee
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2010
Total Posts : 635
   Posted 6/18/2012 11:45 AM (GMT -6)   

A couple weeks ago, I did a kefir grain retention enemas, 7 nights in a row.  I cleaned out an old hydrocort enema bottle, filled it with water, then dumped the water in a pot to boil, then i seeped it w a chammomile tea bag for a couple minutes, then let it cool a few minutes and put it in a small blender w a tablespoon of kefir grains, blended, and then poured back in the retention bottle, squeezing in some vit e oil. 

it did not help at all, and helped less than rowasa. ymmv.

i still make and drink a homemeade kefir smoothie every morning, though. Kefir, frozen blueberries and some spinach and blend.  It is a good healthy breakfast for me and i feel i am getting my probiotics, vitamins, protein i guess to boot.  drinking the homemade kefir has not improved my uc though.  to be fair, no probiotic i have tried has helped me, i dont get any changes whatsoever, i mean i dont get increased gas nothing, nothing at all...(ived tried vsl3ds for 9 mos, benebiotics, and like 3 more probiotics, nothing,nada, zip). I have also tried tons of other alternative stuff as well as diet mod.  still flared.

 

i am lactose intolerant and have no issues drinking homemade kefir, as the fermenting process removes the lactose. you can even let your kefir sit out after fermenting an extra day to remove more lactose but i found i didnt need to.

 

google search doms kefir making website, that is the most comprehensive site out there

Meanwhile: 2 weeks ago i started a short course of pred and imuran, and almost to no blood. i should be done the pred in about 2-3 weeks and i am hoping the imuran kicks in. 

 


UC since 1991, pancolitis
current: isolated 4 inch patch of inflamation in sigmoid

meds: lialda, omeprazole (gerd),rowasa. 6/6 starting imuran and 4 week course of pred

supplements: psylium seed powder, fish oil, multivit, calcium/vitamin d

Diet: homemade kefir, lactose free. minimal gluten, sugar, vinegar, processed foods, veg oils. trying to eat more organic/grass fed

Old Mike
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 2374
   Posted 6/18/2012 12:27 PM (GMT -6)   
Jimbo: I did not eat much,but had no gas issues today. I will let what I have sit another week and try again after it matures more.
Old Mike

Joma
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 209
   Posted 6/18/2012 11:12 PM (GMT -6)   
Kombucha is another way to get gut bugs.....tastes great too.
Diagnosed 1999 with left-sided UC.
Meds: asacol, various enemas, suppositories, foams etc. Pred for flares.
Also, slippery elm, marshmellow root, quercetin, curcumin, bromelain, glutamine, calcium, vitamin c/d, folic acid, fish oil, probiotics and psyllium husk.
Low sugar, organic, whole foods diet.

Old Mike
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 2374
   Posted 6/19/2012 4:56 AM (GMT -6)   
Jimbo:Seems I spoke too soon, after I wrote the above post the gas started and it is still going strong,huge amounts I might add. Did not eat anything yesterday other than my normal hadfull of coconut shreds, so has to be the kraut. At this point dont know whether it is good or bad to have this much gas. Must be a lot going on down there.
Old Mike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 6/19/2012 3:59:50 AM (GMT-6)

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