Carrageenan and IBD

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Old Mike
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Date Joined Jan 2007
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   Posted 8/1/2012 6:54 AM (GMT -6)   
I post this mostly for the people new to UC than may not know about it, but also as a reminder to all.
This food additive does not seem to be safe for anyone with UC,even if it is,why take a chance.  Watch what you eat,it may make you sicker. It is even in toothpaste. Looks like it may have been used since the 1930's.
Old Mike
 
 
Food list.
 
Stonyfields comments. They are taking an awful chance with people
if they are wrong.
 
My wife just bought pumkin raisin bread guess what is in it.
I ate a few small pieces before I looked.

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 8/1/2012 8:02:49 AM (GMT-6)


benji369
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Date Joined Sep 2011
Total Posts : 53
   Posted 8/1/2012 6:58 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for sharing this!

I ALWAYS react badly to something with Carrageenan in it.

IamCurious
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Date Joined Jan 2010
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   Posted 8/1/2012 7:28 AM (GMT -6)   
Great article. I was never a fan of alternatives for milk such as almond milk because most of them contain carrageenan. I find that I can tolerate conventional dairy as long as it is lactose free.

Most ice cream is bad for me but I find that I can tolerate Häagen-Dazs which is one of the few brands that does not contain carrageenan.
Male/60 DX ulcerative colitis Feb08, or maybe Crohn's colitis.
No Meds, allergic to Mesalamine. Remission since Mar10. Psyllium seed mixed with VSL3 is very helpful. Food journal instead of SCD.

Lots of fruit & vegetables (but no plums or cruciferous), no soda, no gluten, no HFCS, no xylitol or sorbitol, no trans fat, no shellfish, few processed foods, no carrageenan.
Probiotics, fish oil, multivitamin, extra D3, K2, E complex, phos choline, magnesium, boswellia, curcumin, glutamine.
Nature created all of the locks, therefore Nature has all of the keys

auburtica
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 92
   Posted 8/1/2012 8:53 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks, Old Mike, great reminder!

For those of us who drink almond milk, the Silk brand does not list carrageenan as an ingredient, so this is the one that I use.

Best to all,
RT
female, 37yrs old, pan-colitis dx-ed 06/2010
med: Apriso 4/day
multivitamin, curcumin, probiotics
mild-flare (proctitis, most likely) 03-04/2012, able to control it with hydrocort enemas and mesalamine enemas

Gonk
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Date Joined Jan 2012
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   Posted 8/1/2012 12:05 PM (GMT -6)   
Now that I have been avoiding carrageenan for the past few months (I don't know it was causing me any issues, but it looks to be rather evil, so I'm not taking any chances), I am amazed at how widely used it is. Try finding heavy cream without it, tough to do. Why does heavy cream need a thickener anyway? And I love coconut milk but there is NO coconut milk on the market without carrageenan, so what I have been doing is buying the canned organic coconut milk, which is quite heavy, and diluting it with water to get to a more milk-like consistency. That works great.

Mackster
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Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 715
   Posted 8/1/2012 12:46 PM (GMT -6)   
Old Mike, I do confess I've not read any of the links.  Most of us have been told we should drink almond milk instead of cow milk, and i've been imbibing said nutty nectar for about a year now.   After reading your post I decided to take a boo at the carton, and of course it contains the dreaded poisonous carrageenan.   I'm now wondering why they think that the public would be averse to their almond milk being a tad 'thinner'.  Who the hell likes thick milk anyways?   You would like to believe that the food industry already know about the carcinomic risks with carrageenan. Why then you have to ask, do they insist on using the darn stuff as a thickening agent----are there absolutely no safer alternatives?
 
Or is this yet another case where the evidence is so scant that it would take about three metric tonnes of carrageenan to give the average lab-rat a headache?
 
I will eventually get round to reading the articles, but in the meantime, should I stop drinking my delicious almond milk?
I put it on my cereal and drink about six ounces at lunchtime for a total of approx 12 oz per day.

Old Mike
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Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 2451
   Posted 8/1/2012 12:53 PM (GMT -6)   
Only thing I can say is that there seems a argument as to whether carrageenen degrades during the digestion process whether from digestive juices or bacteria. Notice the gov't does not
allow degraded carrageenen in food.
I also suspect the food scientist need something
to do at work,so they add stuff to their products to make it nice and thick. People equate thickness with
richness I might guess,more cream like.
I am starting to believe that modern food is killing us,why
because it is not food anymore it is chemicals.
Old Mike

Mackster
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Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 715
   Posted 8/1/2012 1:14 PM (GMT -6)   
I've read the articles and tbh, I'm not convinced one way or the other.
If the industry insist that they only use the undegraded carrageenan, and there isn't an epidemic of carrageenan-caused IBD, I think we should trust them. (and I'm not one who usually trusts big business) After all, it's been a processed food additive for the past 80 years.    If there was a creditable connection with IBD with hard evidence, I think we'd know it by now.
 
But, as I am a chicken by nature, I will probably cut down or even discontinue my almond delight.   Starting with my lunchtime glass. sad

Old Mike
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Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 2451
   Posted 8/1/2012 1:44 PM (GMT -6)   
I am not sure myself,but it only takes a a very low level of degraded carageenan to cause a problem with your gut.
Today it is in many foods,wait until I tell my wife that I wont eat tonights supper,spinach cheese stuffed pasta, gues what they put into the cheese.
 
Then again I have been trying to find reasons that
vegetarians might get IBD,perhaps carrageenan is one of them,it seems to be it a lot of foods,like amond milk. Veggie burgers have cmc.
Old Mike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 8/1/2012 2:11:25 PM (GMT-6)


IamCurious
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Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 2208
   Posted 8/1/2012 3:31 PM (GMT -6)   
Mackster said...
If the industry insist that they only use the undegraded carrageenan, and there isn't an epidemic of carrageenan-caused IBD, I think we should trust them...

Or is this yet another case where the evidence is so scant that it would take about three metric tonnes of carrageenan to give the average lab-rat a headache?

I don't think so. According to the article the experimenters were using undegraded carrageenan, and they were feeding mice a daily intake of carrageenan that was less than the daily intake of what most humans consume:

In experiments with human colonic cells in my laboratory, we have used small amounts of high molecular weight (undegraded or food grade) carrageenan and have determined the specific molecular mechanisms by which carrageenan causes
inflammation...

Hence, the intake for the mice in these experiments IS LESS than the anticipated daily intake for an adult in the United States... Please recall that 18 days of carrageenan intake in the mice produced profound glucose intolerance and impaired response to insulin, rather than intake over an entire lifetime during which humans are likely to ingest carrageenan.

Post Edited (BabeintheWoods) : 8/1/2012 2:38:40 PM (GMT-6)


ucfighter
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2012
Total Posts : 59
   Posted 8/1/2012 3:42 PM (GMT -6)   
Old Mike, thank you for sharing these insightful links, as well as others. You seem pretty knowledgeable about UC. Seeing as you don't display a signature, what might I ask is your diet?
UC sufferer since 2004; finally diagnosed in 2006.
Had 3-4 flares. Currently in remission for about 4 years now :)
Diet: Love teas (herbal/medicinal kinds), probiotic yogurts & supplements (really want to try VSL 3!), fruits, veggies, herbs.. etc..
Meds: Colazal ONLY during flares.
Goal: keep inflammation down & try to balance gut flora.

Probiotic
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 2738
   Posted 8/1/2012 4:00 PM (GMT -6)   
Good reminder. Years back when I used to make SCD yogurt using half and half, I was careful to avoid carageenan, but one day, a common brand of h&h that I was using switched to adding carageenan without warning (i e without changing the packaging other than the fine print, which I discovered after the fact) and it sent me into a massive flare.

For those looking for heavy cream without carageenan- go to Wholefoods or Trader Joe's- they carry them. Unfortunately I do better off all dairy, but my wife usesthe grassfed heavy cream from wholefoods and says it tastes the best of all.
"In order to save the village organ, we had to destroy remove it" -- Doctor's Prescriber's proverb.

Old Mike
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Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 2451
   Posted 8/1/2012 4:16 PM (GMT -6)   

UCfighter: I just happen to have the time to look at studies on the internet.  Items that seem interesting I post to the site.  You never know what might help with this disease.

Actually just came off of no dairy,no nightshade diet,no effect on my UC as far as I can tell.  But low veggie oils seem to help with D,Olive probably ok,corn soybean not so good. Cut out all the chips and dips,crackers cookies.

But been eating lots of homemade sourdough bread,contains no added fats.  So I have to attribute the much less D to lowered fats in the diet,and not due to grains.

Also some fermented cabbage,and slaws.

Just started germinated cereal and germinated bread,will now go to low fat/less no butter and more fiber/veggies.

Old Mike

 

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 8/1/2012 10:59:22 PM (GMT-6)


NiceCupOfTea
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Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 5715
   Posted 8/1/2012 8:41 PM (GMT -6)   
Mein gott. It's not so much that I think the food in the UK is wonderful, but not even our lower class (sniffs snootily) supermarkets add carrageenan to double (heavy) cream. Also, I bought an organic almond milk from Waitrose (posh supermarket alert!) without any carrageenan in it, but it was expensive - haven't tried it yet.

It's something I half was trying to avoid anyway; guess I will go from half to three quarters now.

Probiotic
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 2738
   Posted 8/1/2012 8:54 PM (GMT -6)   
It boggles the mind that the US FDA bans TSO and Mutaflor, while approving the massive use of an inflammatory agent like carageenan in food and beverages.

Peace&Harmony
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2010
Total Posts : 1121
   Posted 8/2/2012 10:16 AM (GMT -6)   
I watch my Carrageenan intake. I found Almond milk without it and occasionally have an Orgain protein drink that has it but it doesn't seem to bother me. According to the studies it takes ALOT to induce IBD. I know it's different for everyone...
Diagnosed July 2010 also have Adrenal Fatigue too!
Pred 40mg started 6/4/2011, currently at 5mg
LDN 4.5 mg every other night / Stopped 5-ASAs due to inflamed Pancreas / Microgestrin

Probiotic
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 2738
   Posted 8/2/2012 11:07 AM (GMT -6)   
I'm sure it does take a lot to artificially induce (or father, mimic) IBD in a healthy/normal gut- but it probably onky takes trace amounts to trigger disease activity for many of us who already have IBD.

noga
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts : 13
   Posted 8/2/2012 2:22 PM (GMT -6)   
I am looking for a toothpaste without carrageenan.
I want the natural toothpastes- those without menthol, fluoride ets.
Spitefully, these natural toothpastes  have more carrageenan than the  regular toothpastes.
 
Can you tell me of a brand of toothpastes without:menthol, fluoride and carrageenan   ?
 
Thanks
 
(forgive my english. I'm not an english speaker)
 
 

Mackster
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Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 715
   Posted 8/2/2012 2:41 PM (GMT -6)   
noga, just do not swallow the toothpaste and rinse your mouth thoroughly after brushing.

Old Mike
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Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 2451
   Posted 8/2/2012 3:47 PM (GMT -6)   
Squigle toothpaste they sell it on amazon,or directly from the company.
or in the UK from mouth ulcers shop
 
 
Old Mike

ucfighter
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2012
Total Posts : 59
   Posted 8/2/2012 4:05 PM (GMT -6)   
Old Mike, yes that's true you never know what might work; it's a never ending trial and error battle. Interesting diet; I never thought to add germinated foods to my diet. I've increased my probiotic intake and that seemed to make a huge difference for me as well as eating lots of fruits and vegetables. Also, as you can see in my signature, I love teas and herbs (things to quell/alleviate inflammation). What are your thoughts on probiotics? Are you taking any?
UC sufferer since 2004; finally diagnosed in 2006.
Had 3-4 flares. Currently in remission for about 4 years now :)
Diet: Love teas (herbal/medicinal kinds), probiotic yogurts & supplements (really want to try VSL 3!), fruits, veggies, herbs.. etc..
Meds: Colazal ONLY during flares.
Goal: keep inflammation down & try to balance gut flora.

noga
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts : 13
   Posted 8/2/2012 4:09 PM (GMT -6)   
thanks for both of you for your reply.
Mackster- I brush my teeth an half an hour, so some of it being
absorbed, so I prefer without carrageenan.

Old Mike- I tried Squigle, but it didn't create foam at all and I find it hard to move the brush back and forth .

Do you know of more brands without:menthol, fluoride, carrageenan ?

Old Mike
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 2451
   Posted 8/2/2012 4:20 PM (GMT -6)   
If you dont like squigle then you might have to go to baby training toothpaste.
Old Mike

Mackster
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 715
   Posted 8/2/2012 4:28 PM (GMT -6)   
noga, a half hour brushing teeth?  That seems like it's 26 minutes too long.    Considering twice a day means one hour a day with a toothbrush in your mouth.  
Over the average (toothbrushing lifetime) that would amount to over three years spent brushing your teeth  rolleyes    

stereofidelic89
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Date Joined Sep 2011
Total Posts : 1923
   Posted 8/2/2012 5:00 PM (GMT -6)   
I've been to Stonyfield in Vermont, and they are quality dairy producers -in my eyes. After reading a little bit on the health nutrition blog effects and Stony's FAQ page, I feel they have justified themselves in which Carrageenan is safe to use, and they use undegraded. I have tried to stay away from it while flaring.

To add, I think they stated that if any degraded carrageenan ocurrs in the stomach, its because the environment is too acidic, and we do know that alot of us (with UC) probably had acidic (pH off-balance) environments to begin with.

However, now I'm on this chocolate milk craze...
Meds: 2400mg Asacol daily
Dietary: Candida-Control Diet, Gluten-Free, VSL#3, Phytostan, ParaGuard, Similase, ADP (anti-fungals)
Amazing Herbs: Slippery Elm, Licorice & Marshmallow Root / Peppermint & Chamomile

Grad student, diagnosed severe Crohns/UC - Sept. 2011
In the past, SCD=remission, Metametrix lab tests reveal yeast overgrowth.
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