Resistant Starch diet improves UC

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aguywithuc
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   Posted 4/5/2013 4:55 PM (GMT -6)   
Formyson said...
I got the wrong butyrate too and thanks to Pathogenkiller just ordered the sodium-butyrate instead.

GutsZilla - I got a great deal on the zinc-carnosine ordering from Vitacost. Doctor's Best PepZin GI - $18.00 for 120 capsules (retail value $34).


Got behind, had 1 year fix ups on the house, 6 different crews here.

What does the zinc-carnosine do ?

Which sodium-butyrate did you go with the amazon one with 500mg capsules ?

RS diet allowed me to go from 20mg prednisone sunday, 15mg Monday, and 10mg today. Slower from here but thrilled I ate downtown with friend at 'Tilted Kilt' a burger and fries and some more cheat foods like cookies BUT downed a can of rinsed navy with swiss cheese and I'm all good, 1 or 2 solid bm's per day.

Coagulation clinic said my INR was 5.0 not 2-3 so I have lots of blood thinner in me - but not bleeding, stools improving.

freddyj
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   Posted 4/5/2013 5:51 PM (GMT -6)   
Glad to hear youre poos are improving AGuy...

Interesting letils are mentioned, I recall eating lots for them when I went into remission the first time, so is heating them OK>? Or eating them hot after cooking?? Ironically, I ate them with swiss a lot.
currently on:
Asacol 1.6 g/3X per day
Transdermal LDN 4.5 mg/day
Various supplements
And no Quincy, Im not on mesalamine enemas.
didnt work for me.

Formyson
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Date Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts : 91
   Posted 4/5/2013 6:25 PM (GMT -6)   
Yes, I got the sodium butyrate from Amazon. Still have some cal mag left so I think we might finish that up first?

Here is what my book, Inside Tract, by Gerad Mullin (excellent book and author who is the head of Integrative Gastroenterolgy at Johns Hopkins - also a masters degree in clinical nutrition) says about zinc carnosine:
"Zinc L-carnosine - a form of zinc that is bound to the amino acid L-carnosine - has a number of properties that guard the lining of your digestive tract. Clinically, zinc L-Carnosine has been found to protect the gut's mucosal lining." He cites a few studies demonstrating that in Crohn's patients, low zinc blood levels are common and that supplementaion with zinc significantly decreased small intestinal permeability. He cites another study showing a correlation of correction of zinc deficiency and IBD improvement.
He recommends 30 mg daily for gut lining repair in IBD. (Note this is not the same form as elemental zinc you would likely find in multivitamins).

You are seeing some great results. How wonderful for you to be returning to normal life! My son is slowly improving but not sure what the cause, or just the usual course of the disease...?? But he is doing well with the diet he is on now, so we will surely continue and monitor his results. I can't imagine 1- 2 a day!! Hasn't happened since diagnosis in October and he's been on everything (and is now on no meds....).

aguywithuc
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   Posted 4/5/2013 6:27 PM (GMT -6)   
freddyj said...
Ironically, I ate them with swiss a lot.


Ha!

Gonna try a tortilla wrap burrito, got Edin's kidney and I think lentil for variety.

Type 1 RS means we can eat them hot which is why I am all about the beans plus they have 10x as much RS as potatoes and pasta, I did the potatotos and pasta for a few days but nothing game changing. Now I am eating green bananas and will eat those as well but the backbone of the plan is the beans.

One can a day of heated rinsed Edins beans is making a HUGE difference.

Removed the sugary yogurts now that I am 10gm prednisone. Sugar elimination for soft landing. More RS foods too. Spinach would be good as well.

Lentils look low in RS..

wicwoes.com/2011/resistant-starch-diet-and-wic

Food Serving size Grams RS

Navy beans 1/2 cup cooked 9.8 --> Every day 1 full can
Banana, raw 1 medium, peeled 4.7 --> Every day 1 full banana
Cold potato 1/2” diameter 3.2
Lentils 1/2 cup cooked 2.5
Cold pasta 1 cup 1.9
Pearl barley 1/2 cup cooked 1.6
Oatmeal 1 cup cooked 0.7
Wholegrain bread 2 slices 0.5

Post Edited (aguywithuc) : 4/5/2013 11:56:51 PM (GMT-6)


freddyj
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   Posted 4/6/2013 12:00 AM (GMT -6)   
I remember Elaine G had lentils as legal if properly prepared, but she didn't say what that was. I assumed it meant soaking?

Old Mike
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   Posted 4/6/2013 5:57 AM (GMT -6)   
Aguy:I did RS diet years and years ago when they first found out about butyrate, stopped early into the diet after eating a can of split pea soup,
some of the worst gas and cramps I ever had. I may revisit this shortly, I am finding conflicting results as to whether RS is present in canned beans or not. I found one site where they said there is none, I will keep at it and see if I can find an answer.  If I restart will go slow,anything that up regulates IL-10 is good.
I also have done FOS and Inulin, lots of gas and pain.
Old Mike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 4/6/2013 6:28:38 AM (GMT-6)


Old Mike
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   Posted 4/6/2013 6:21 AM (GMT -6)   
This site says canned have RS.
this new info says as soon as you heat it the rs is gone,not sure what the heck is going on
good article out of sweden
http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v56/n6/pdf/1601338a.pdf

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 4/6/2013 8:07:42 AM (GMT-6)


aguywithuc
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   Posted 4/6/2013 3:22 PM (GMT -6)   
Old Mike said...
Aguy:I did RS diet years and years ago when they first found out about butyrate, stopped early into the diet after eating a can of split pea soup,
some of the worst gas and cramps I ever had. I may revisit this shortly, I am finding conflicting results as to whether RS is present in canned beans or not. I found one site where they said there is none, I will keep at it and see if I can find an answer. If I restart will go slow,anything that up regulates IL-10 is good.I also have done FOS and Inulin, lots of gas and pain.
Old Mike


I have always done well with Pure Green Protein since it is from peas.

I started RS diet with RS3 sub-category and the room temp potatos and pasta was very low on the scale, where RS1 Navy beans have 3x - 10x as much and from everything I read only RS3 requires heat-then-cool preparation so we should be able to eat beans hot. I could experiment with cooled beans for a few days and if there is a striking difference then I know what the answer is.

Nothing works like Vicadin or the I.V. narcotic they gave me for angiogram 2 weeks ago -perfect fat ropelike waste, but you cannot go thru life on narcotics.

RS makes mine solid and clay like, but I am tapering fast and on high dose coumadin plus clot buster Serrapeptase and Nattokinase, risky but was making progress however this puts the gut at high risk with prednisone dropping. So cutting out Serra and Natto till post-taper to zero.

It seemed like RS reduced inflammation resulting in needing much less prednisone.

Hard to find much more info, keep running into the same articles on RS - it is fairly new on the scene.

Navy beans are tops and adding salsa and swiss cheese makes a delicious meal.
Bananas are next highest but need to be green - just the opposite of what Elaine G. calls for
Pasta/potatos etc are pretty low but give us a bit of variety.

Hope you give it a whirl, again only RS1 navy beans & green bananas were game-changing for me I did not notice a huge difference with RS3.

aguywithuc
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Date Joined Jun 2010
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   Posted 4/6/2013 3:31 PM (GMT -6)   
Old Mike said...
This site says canned have RS.http://beaninstitute.com/beans-101/health-promoting-bioactives/
this new info says as soon as you heat it the rs is gone,not sure what the heck is going on
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130219140716.htm
good article out of sweden
http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v56/n6/pdf/1601338a.pdf


Interesting facts :

expected glycemic index of black beans was 44.
expected glycemic index values of 12-12.2 for navy and light and dark kidney beans.

They concluded that beans were a low glycemic food and that the resistant starch content was the like reason behind the low glycemic index of the beans.

Flours of navy beans had a resistant starch content of 32.4% followed by light red kidney beans (35.5%) and dark kidney beans (36%).

Cooking of beans in general increases the resistant starch levels.

Canned beans and precooked bean flours also have higher values of resistant starch compared to raw beans

Post Edited (aguywithuc) : 4/6/2013 3:37:13 PM (GMT-6)


aguywithuc
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   Posted 4/6/2013 3:46 PM (GMT -6)   
We have a couple unsolved questions.

1) Are canned beans as effective as home prepared beans ? I will try to prepare some tonight.
2) Do we need to cool the beans or not ?

I keep reading things like this that single out the RS3 types for cooling but in the same paragraph do not treat RS1 legumes this way :

Resistant starch can be found in many foods, but there are certain foods that contain high amounts of this miracle nutrient. Foods with highly-concentrated amounts of resistant starch include oats, puffed wheat cereal, slightly green bananas, whole-grain breads, Italian and sourdough bread, legumes (beans and peas) , cooked and cooled potatoes and yams, cooked and cooled rice and pasta (both whole-grain and refined grain), cooked plantains, corn flakes, rice cereal, potato chips, corn tortillas, barley, and millet.

bettylou
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Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 141
   Posted 4/6/2013 5:13 PM (GMT -6)   
Following on from aguywithuc, what about canned beans we eat in England called Baked Beans (wikipedia says the nearest thing you have in the US is Heinz Premium Vegetarian Beans)? They are haricot (i.e. navy) beans in a tomato sauce. Perfectly edible cold or hot.

Do these count? If so, I'm in for trying this...
Ulcerative Colitis: diagnosed as moderate pan-colitis August 2008.
Baby daughter born October 2010. Struggling to cope since.
Lialda/Mezavant 4.8g/day; Salofalk enemas as needed.
Tapering pred and thinking about going on 6MP again (bad reaction last time)
90% paleo

aguywithuc
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   Posted 4/7/2013 10:56 AM (GMT -6)   
bettylou said...
Following on from aguywithuc, what about canned beans we eat in England called Baked Beans (wikipedia says the nearest thing you have in the US is Heinz Premium Vegetarian Beans)? They are haricot (i.e. navy) beans in a tomato sauce. Perfectly edible cold or hot.

Do these count? If so, I'm in for trying this...


bettylou,

Wikipedia agrees with you..


The small, white navy bean or haricot bean is particularly popular in the United Kingdom and the United States (where it may also be called pea bean). It features in such dishes as baked beans and even pies, as well as in various soups such as Senate bean soup. Consumption of baked beans has been shown to lower total cholesterol levels and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol. This might be at least partly explained by high saponin content of navy bean. Saponins also exhibit antibacterial and anti-fungal activity, and have been found to inhibit cancer cell growth. Furthermore, navy bean is the richest source of ferulic acid and p-coumaric acid among the common bean varieties.

Navy bean varieties include:

Great Northern
Rainy River
Robust
Michelite
Sanilac

aguywithuc
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Date Joined Jun 2010
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   Posted 4/7/2013 11:25 AM (GMT -6)   
One of my sports drink powders contains RS.


Tropical Punch with Fiber Sugar Free Drink Sticks

www.nowfoods.com/Foods/Better-Stevia/Products/Better-Stevia-Beverages/081241.htm


Fibersol®-2

www.fibersol.com/products/fibersol-2/

aguywithuc
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Date Joined Jun 2010
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   Posted 4/7/2013 1:14 PM (GMT -6)   
RS is shown to make consumers feel fuller ( satiety ), less hungry, tastes better etc.

www.resistantstarch.com/NR/rdonlyres/80DF3A03-D27F-4130-9E0C-9CA7770BE2B3/0/JoanneSlavin.pdf

This is why it is expected to control weight.

At vitamin cottage none of the employees had ever heard of Resistant Starch and looked at me very puzzled, I took home some gluten free bread with Resistant Starch in it and their Squenchers drink powder with RS was sold out.

Old Mike
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   Posted 4/7/2013 6:11 PM (GMT -6)   
Here is a good study on beans and DDS mouse colitis,long and hard to get through.
Upshot,helps pre illness,aggrivates post DDS colitis induction.
Old Mike

aguywithuc
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Date Joined Jun 2010
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   Posted 4/7/2013 6:54 PM (GMT -6)   
Old Mike said...
Here is a good study on beans and DDS mouse colitis,long and hard to get through.Upshot,helps pre illness,aggrivates post DDS colitis induction.
Old Mike
http://www.uoguelph.ca/hhns/grad/pdf_theses/ZhangMScThesisSept2012.pdf


"However, when bean
consumption was limited to prior to DSS induction only, mice had reduced colitis upon
later DSS induction. Overall, findings suggest that the effects of bean may differ depending
on the timing of consumption. "

I think I read that when I started finding the RS diet. Nowhere did I read that it is for stopping a flare. However I decided to try it since things were more or less calm with prednisone 40mg. I did have middle of the night urgency where I had only seconds to run to can upon waking which ended upon starting RS, has not returned since.

Meanwhile stool quality benefited and with reduced inflammation I needed less prednisone. Sooooooo I have remained on the diet but it is worth noting that it might be best to start cautiously when flaring.

Old Mike
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   Posted 4/14/2013 9:37 AM (GMT -6)   
Here is a small study. I have done this years ago,may revisit.
Old Mike
 

aguywithuc
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Date Joined Jun 2010
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   Posted 4/14/2013 9:49 AM (GMT -6)   
Old Mike said...
Here is a small study. I have done this years ago,may revisit.Old Mike
https://www.ecco-ibd.eu/publications/congress-abstract-s/item/p208-abnorm.html?category_id=176


I have seen that one before.

1) Improved transit time
2) Improved fermentation and conversion to SCFA...butyrate

I also have read

3) Corrects intestinal flora and PH

New facts are that the Type 3 RS pasta and potatos need to be cooked,cooled and stored for a period of time.

I am only using RS Type 1 ( legumes ) and Type 2 ( HI-Maize resistant starch )

So far with no legumes yesterday and using HI-Maize added to smoothies and baked into muffins I have no gas and despite 1 cup of coffee and my DIY energy drink concoction I did not get my morning BM so I take that as a positive that this Type 2 HI-Maize might workout so well I do not need the beans.

The muffins, 6 large ones involved 1/2 cup of unrefined sugar, my yogurts have a lot of sugar, I do not crave sugar with the RS starch but I also dont have to avoid it......PREDNISONE 0.00 DAY 4 here and normally sugar is outlawed at this time for me but I am fine with stimulants and sugar while on RS diet and blood thinners and just made a soft landing off PREDNISONE.

Old Mike
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   Posted 4/14/2013 10:06 AM (GMT -6)   
Aguy:Where are you getting the hi maize,do you have a link,what brand ect.
OM

Formyson
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Date Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts : 91
   Posted 4/14/2013 1:53 PM (GMT -6)   
Excellent, aguy.
I was going to ask if anyone has tried the hi-maize and here it was, good to know. I had looked at a product online, but was nervous about it. Can you tell me what else is in your muffins? My son is liking the cold potato salad (just a little Braggs cider vinegar, evoo, and organic turkey bacon). He is FINALLY almost blood free, which steroids never even did for him (but this is likely more a result of taking out tomatoes, however) and steady at 5-6 bm a day with decent consistency (bristol 4-5 mostly), but can't get any better than that unfortunately, for the most part.

aguywithuc
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   Posted 4/14/2013 2:30 PM (GMT -6)   
Formyson said...
Excellent, aguy.
I was going to ask if anyone has tried the hi-maize and here it was, good to know. I had looked at a product online, but was nervous about it. Can you tell me what else is in your muffins? My son is liking the cold potato salad (just a little Braggs cider vinegar, evoo, and organic turkey bacon). He is FINALLY almost blood free, which steroids never even did for him (but this is likely more a result of taking out tomatoes, however) and steady at 5-6 bm a day with decent consistency (bristol 4-5 mostly), but can't get any better than that unfortunately, for the most part.


Congratulations!

aguywithuc
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   Posted 4/14/2013 2:35 PM (GMT -6)   
Old Mike said...
Aguy:Where are you getting the hi maize,do you have a link,what brand ect.
OM


I was comparing and one site gave you a tiny amount for a lot of money. ( king arthur )

THEN I read they all come from the same source - the same company. So at that point I went with amazon which sells the re-branded 'Honeyville' Hi-Maize.

www.amazon.com/Hi-Maize-Resistant-Starch-Pound-Bag/dp/B00993APG8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1365971513&sr=8-1&keywords=hi+maize+resistant+starch

Only this bag is 5 lbs for 19.95 and seemed like a lifetime supply !

I have another bag from them, some polydextrose nonsense that never did anything like the 100 other things I keep as reminders.

So just get the best price point its all from the same place www.hi-maize.com/Himaize/USA/Home

I should know in a few more days if this means legumes are history. Just put another spoonful in my afternoon drink. No flavor change but slightly better consistency.

Old Mike
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   Posted 4/14/2013 2:49 PM (GMT -6)   
Ok thanks,will await your results. I read about this stuff say 10 years ago,never did anything with it,
probably not easy to find back then.
Old Mike

Guardian7
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   Posted 4/14/2013 4:12 PM (GMT -6)   
How are you doing with the hi-maize aguywithuc? Any issues?

Old Mike
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   Posted 4/14/2013 4:59 PM (GMT -6)   
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