Resistant Starch diet improves UC

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aguywithuc
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   Posted 4/14/2013 7:27 PM (GMT -6)   
Old Mike said...
Oat bran feeding to increase buytrate,believe I have done this or something like it.
Old Mike


I am fairly certain that RS boosts butyrate way beyond other methods such as psyllium seed powder. One of the reasons I believe this is because it thickened the mucosal layer in this study in a dose dependent way.

high amylose maize starch (HAMS)

"mucus barrier thinnest in rats fed 0% HAMS. DNA damage was reduced and the mucus barrier thickened in a logarithmic dose-dependent manner by HAMS. "

That is what I think happened when I got on RS allowing me to chop pred rapidly with no bleeding.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17218781

I tried oats before RS and no change. The study you posted suggested some wheat grains with RS, that is a tough sell to this crowd with so many people off gluten. Maybe oats and RS is good, I cannot recall if oats has gluten.

Post Edited (aguywithuc) : 4/14/2013 9:10:05 PM (GMT-6)


aguywithuc
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   Posted 4/14/2013 7:36 PM (GMT -6)   
StealthGuardian said...
How are you doing with the hi-maize aguywithuc? Any issues?


Well a whole lot less gas :).

I keep dumping a teaspoonful into my hydration and energy drinks. I keep eating the almond-poppy seed muffins baked last night.

Baked the first batch and totally forgot to replace 25% of flour with RS - duh.

I put too many eggs in so they are not as fluffy and light as store bought but good eating and no GI issues that is for sure. Only had a single bm and that was about 4 hours after my normal morning bm. Don't expect another until tomorrow morning. Had dinner with folks and big steak and lots of vegetables. I actually turned down desert which on the previous trip I wolfed down. RS diet improves insulin resistance and gives long burning energy foods so I do not crave sweets like I always have my whole life.

So with only 1 bm in the books we need to see how I do this week and since your interested I will hold off the Navy beans and see if this RS2 stuff will keep me going with solid clay like stools that do not disperse on flush but hold together like before UC. I am not drinking milk or eating wheat btw - loads of sugar but I will eat pasta, when I get a chance I am going to cook up some pasta and follow the mantra - cook, cool and store for a period of time then eat it cold or room temp.

Green bananas are always in the mix per RS diet. Oh I guess I am kidding myself the muffins are made of Gold Medal All purpose flour which is from wheat and the egg sandwhich I made this morning was on two large pieces of bread that had wheat as a main ingredient. :)

Indycat23
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   Posted 4/14/2013 8:27 PM (GMT -6)   
Are you eating an exclusive RS diet or just adding RS foods to your normal diet? Hope your success continues. I'm thinking of giving this a try too.
Pancolitis-- Diagnosed 3/2011
Current Meds-Pred tapering, Humira, Asacol, Vit D, Sodium Butyrate, Canasa/Rowasa

Stuff I've tried-Imuran, Remicade, Black Cherry Concentrate, SCD, Tumeric, Slippery Elm, Chia Seeds, Psyllium Seed,

aguywithuc
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Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 3005
   Posted 4/14/2013 9:08 PM (GMT -6)   
Indycat23 said...
Are you eating an exclusive RS diet or just adding RS foods to your normal diet? Hope your success continues. I'm thinking of giving this a try too.


Thanks Indy, Yes I am adding it in everywhere I can, target is 20-30 grams of fiber daily and I want it mostly RS fiber.

Began with cooled pasta and cooled potato, no gain BUT I was not adhering to 'cooked,cooled and stored for a period of time'.
Went to legumes and cheapo brand had amazing effect and gassy.
Moved on to pricier brand that said it washed and soaked and rinsed.
No gas at all and kind of seemed like the benefit was lacking too ( need to revisit that test )
Returned to cheap .50 cent cans and benefit returned, a bit gassy so eat late in the day at office and dinner.
Now I stopped legumes because RS type 2 HI-MAIZE starch arrived in 5 lb bag.

I also eat green banana's, Elaine would hate this but RS diet calls for it.
Some breads mention restricted starch in my kitchen, they are gluten free type
Some drink powders like Squenchers mention restricted starch diet and I use that.
I baked HI-Maize into muffins.

Beyond that I eat whatever I want, sugary dannon natural coffee flavored yogurt is good but too sweet that I am on the diet which controls glucose tolerance etc. I also love Dannon natural vanilla yogurt which is loaded with sugar. At the office I ate a big bag of cookies one day after climbing 15 flights of stairs. I would say I am eating pretty healthy but if I want a peanut butter or almond butter and honey sandwhich I wont hesitate to eat one or two.

Trying to slip as much RS into my diet as I can.

No milk and I am avoiding anything with sulfites. It removes B1 and after a period of that people start looking like UC'ers. Out went my favorite hash browns 'simply potatos' I think is the brand. I read any potato product missing the skin is likely to have sulfites.


Here is reminder of the RS types.

RS1

On the starch resistant scale of RS1 to RS4, lentils and beans come in at RS1. Using a half-cup of beans or lentils in your diet may add between 2 to 4 g of resistant starch. A daily intake of around 25 g from different sources may be adequate.

RS2

HI-Maze is example of RS food occurring naturally in granular form. This is a flour substitute.

RS3

An RS3 designation refers to foods that have been cooked and cooled such as yams and potatoes.

RS4

RS4 refers to starches that don't exist in nature and are chemically altered.

The list..

www.vitalchoice.com/shop/pc/catalog/chart-1.300.jpg

tap
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 474
   Posted 4/15/2013 5:26 AM (GMT -6)   
aguywithuc, for you, does HAMS consumption lead to gas production?

My experience is that both potatoes and bananas cause me to produce large quantities of gas about four hours after consumption. Could the gas production be a side effect of producing butyrate?

It would be nice to be able to consume something that produces butyrate but not much gas.
47 - male - Diagnosed with pancolitis in 1998
Status: 1 stool a day
Vitamin D3 - 10000 IU three times per week (Status: 65 ng/ML);
Asacol - 2 400mg pills 3 times per day

Guardian7
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Date Joined Apr 2006
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   Posted 4/15/2013 10:19 AM (GMT -6)   
Luckily for us there are many kinds of resistant starches. If one doesn't agree with our colon, then perhaps it's best to try another

Coming from an Indian family, I think the key for Indians not getting IBD (at least in the previous generations) was emphasis on lentils, rotis and ghee in their diets - all pecursors to butyrate production in the colon. Not to mention the abundance of anti-inflammatory foods like spinach, ginger, turmeric, etc.

I'm trying whole wheat flour and potatoes to see if this thing works out for me.

therearemiracles
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Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 3487
   Posted 4/15/2013 11:35 AM (GMT -6)   
I just saw the Dr. Oz talk about this RS and I'm going to the store....green bananas, navy beans and brown rice here I come!
UC since '05 and DX with chronic Lyme's in 2010, (get tested by Igenix Lab) You have to be your own advocate in your health. 5-ASA no remission. Humira and Imuran didn't work. Asacol.

aguywithuc
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Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 3005
   Posted 4/15/2013 5:20 PM (GMT -6)   
StealthGuardian said...
Luckily for us there are many kinds of resistant starches. If one doesn't agree with our colon, then perhaps it's best to try another

Coming from an Indian family, I think the key for Indians not getting IBD (at least in the previous generations) was emphasis on lentils, rotis and ghee in their diets - all pecursors to butyrate production in the colon. Not to mention the abundance of anti-inflammatory foods like spinach, ginger, turmeric, etc.

I'm trying whole wheat flour and potatoes to see if this thing works out for me.


I agree. I am going back to RS1, legumes and green bananas. Will ramp up RS3 the cooked, cooled and stored pasta and potatos.

RS2 started out fine saturday with HI-MAIZE which claims there are no side effects from high doses. I think the goal is 20-30 grams of total fiber per day like olther nations where our average is 3 grams. However I went for 30 grams of RS and probably got more like 40 grams. The HI-MAIZE dumped into flavored water just did not work out as today after 48 hours of RS2 I felt like I had UC again and halted the experiment.

Back to what works for me RS1 ( legumes, green bananas ) and RS3 ( pasta, potatoes, cooked-cooled-stored for a period of time cold ).

When I did that I felt like I was cured. I will keep baking by substituting flour with 25% HI-MAIZE but the lazy approach of just dumping the white powder into every drink does not workout and does not suprise me. Had to try to know if it was going to be that easy.

Old Mike
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Date Joined Jan 2007
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   Posted 4/15/2013 5:38 PM (GMT -6)   
Interesting,perhaps too much of a good thing,butyrate downregulates SERT.
A question might be can you have too much butyrate.
Another possible,if too much bacteria food,increasing their numbers, and your colon cannot handle it yet.
Aguy: You might want to read my last post in the SERT/Neurotransmitter thread I am finding stuff that is amazing,about butyrate,insulin,mucus,SERT,FAS,insulin resistance,transmitters.
Old Mike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 4/15/2013 6:15:29 PM (GMT-6)


protocolteck
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts : 338
   Posted 4/16/2013 11:26 AM (GMT -6)   

Aguy,

 

I have been following this thread closely and have ordered Sodium Butyrate from Amazon and Eden foods navy beans from Vitacost.com.  My question is how do you eat the green bananas?  I know this might be a stupid question but I can’t even get the skin off a green banana.

 

I also ordered the 5 lb. bag of Hi Maize (which I now see didn’t agree with you)

 

 

Thanks and keep the great information on RS coming.

 

Protocolteck


Male, 45
1 Canasa daily
VSL#3 twice a day
SF/Spinach Diet started 3/11/2013
Ulcerative Proctitis since 2/2012 (Colonoscopy)
Been flaring since 1/2012
Gluten Free since 12/1/2012-went into remission for 1 month going GF then symptoms returned in full force 1/1/2013. I still remain GF for other reasons.
Very active Mountain runner and Crossfit enthusiast

Guardian7
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Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 2682
   Posted 4/16/2013 12:56 PM (GMT -6)   
Here's the resistant starch segment on Dr.Oz; some very good tips in those videos: www.doctoroz.com/videos/resistant-starch-flour

protocolteck, it says you can boil the green bananas to get the skin off.

Post Edited (StealthGuardian) : 4/16/2013 1:08:28 PM (GMT-6)


protocolteck
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts : 338
   Posted 4/16/2013 1:14 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks, Stealth.  Im curious about how people on this RS diet are eating green bananas?  Boiling doesnt sound too yummy :)  Are there better and tastier ways to prepare them and still get the RS benefit?
Thanks!
Protocolteck

Male, 45
1 Canasa daily
VSL#3 twice a day
SF/Spinach Diet started 3/11/2013
Ulcerative Proctitis since 2/2012 (Colonoscopy)
Been flaring since 1/2012
Gluten Free since 12/1/2012-went into remission for 1 month going GF then symptoms returned in full force 1/1/2013. I still remain GF for other reasons.
Very active Mountain runner and Crossfit enthusiast

Guardian7
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 2682
   Posted 4/16/2013 1:26 PM (GMT -6)   
IMO, bananas are a bit too drastic for me given my current flare. The video mentions using the banana as a puree after boiling it as one method.

I'm trying whole wheat flour rotis, whole grain pasta (al dente perfection) and cooled potatoes at the moment to see if actually ends up healing my colon - it turns out that I can tolerate these foods to some degree. I may add in green bananas @ some point.

aguywithuc
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Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 3005
   Posted 4/16/2013 4:01 PM (GMT -6)   
StealthGuardian said...
IMO, bananas are a bit too drastic for me given my current flare. The video mentions using the banana as a puree after boiling it as one method.

I'm trying whole wheat flour rotis, whole grain pasta (al dente perfection) and cooled potatoes at the moment to see if actually ends up healing my colon - it turns out that I can tolerate these foods to some degree. I may add in green bananas @ some point.


I am back on the two dollar can of Navy beans that say they are soaked and rinsed mentioned in earlier posts, Edens I think. The legumes really help me a lot and this brand does not cause flatulance any chance you can try legumes ?

Remember with pasta and potatos you have to cook,cool and store for a period of time.

aguywithuc
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Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 3005
   Posted 4/16/2013 4:04 PM (GMT -6)   
protocolteck said...
Aguy,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />



I have been following this thread closely and have ordered Sodium Butyrate from Amazon and Eden foods navy beans from Vitacost.com.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> My question is how do you eat the green bananas?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> I know this might be a stupid question but I can’t even get the skin off a green banana.

Protocolteck


Maybe mine are not green enough. SCD says to only eat bananas with 'no green' on them. So I figured green and yellow was a decent target, maybe I am wrong and they are supposed to be 100% green. Eating one now and it has green stripes the entire length but gold appears between the stripes.

Old Mike
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Date Joined Jan 2007
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   Posted 4/16/2013 4:31 PM (GMT -6)   
I am not getting any significant gas from regular old canned stoe brand great northern beans,cant actually find navy,unless they are really the same,navy are perhaps dried. Anyhow I put them into a collander and rinse well then refrigerate,but I am only eating about 2 table spoons a day right now,trying to work up to higher levels,without a gas attack.
Old Mike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 4/16/2013 5:00:33 PM (GMT-6)


Guardian7
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Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 2682
   Posted 4/16/2013 4:57 PM (GMT -6)   
aguywithuc said...
StealthGuardian said...
IMO, bananas are a bit too drastic for me given my current flare. The video mentions using the banana as a puree after boiling it as one method.

I'm trying whole wheat flour rotis, whole grain pasta (al dente perfection) and cooled potatoes at the moment to see if actually ends up healing my colon - it turns out that I can tolerate these foods to some degree. I may add in green bananas @ some point.


I am back on the two dollar can of Navy beans that say they are soaked and rinsed mentioned in earlier posts, Edens I think. The legumes really help me a lot and this brand does not cause flatulance any chance you can try legumes ?

Remember with pasta and potatos you have to cook,cool and store for a period of time.


Going to order Eden navy beans from amazon and start slowly. Will update on progress. So far I had one lose bowel movement with minor blood this morning, which is an improvement from before, was getting 2-3 with moderate blood and strong cramping. Then again, my caloric intake and weight have been so low that I need to start eating more anyways. Want to mention that I am taking 10 mg of pred as well, switched from uceris since it wasn't doing anything. Will wean to 5 mg if things continue to go well.

As for the whole grain - I have these frozen whole grain rotis from the indian store. They've been stored in the fridge for some time and I warm it up in the microwave for a few seconds so it's edible. I *hope* I'm getting some resistant starch benefit out of it. The pasta is whole grain flour pasta with al dente perfection (like the one shown on Dr.Oz). I just need to under cook it a bit more so more of it reaches my colon to ferment. Usually the foods I'm getting are from the frozen section so I assume they've been stored for some time - I just warm it up and sometimes keep it in the fridge to cool and then eat it.

Post Edited (StealthGuardian) : 4/16/2013 5:04:04 PM (GMT-6)


protocolteck
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts : 338
   Posted 4/16/2013 5:15 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey Stealth,

Eden Navy Beans from Vitacost.com MUCH cheaper than Amazon. I just ordered 18 15/oz cans for $29 U.S. I saw Amazon was 12 15/oz cans for $40 U.S.

Just a FYI.
Male, 45
1 Canasa daily
VSL#3 twice a day
SF/Spinach Diet started 3/11/2013
Ulcerative Proctitis since 2/2012 (Colonoscopy)
Been flaring since 1/2012
Gluten Free since 12/1/2012-went into remission for 1 month going GF then symptoms returned in full force 1/1/2013. I still remain GF for other reasons.
Very active Mountain runner and Crossfit enthusiast

aguywithuc
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Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 3005
   Posted 4/16/2013 11:25 PM (GMT -6)   
Old Mike said...
I am not getting any significant gas from regular old canned stoe brand great northern beans,cant actually find navy,unless they are really the same,navy are perhaps dried. Anyhow I put them into a collander and rinse well then refrigerate,but I am only eating about 2 table spoons a day right now,trying to work up to higher levels,without a gas attack.
Old Mike


I hope the legumes are as beneficial to you guys as they were to me. Taper was fast - confidence was high. I had a 1/2 can of the Edens Navy beans last night and have recovered from the HI-Maize experiment well. No gas with Edens. The other brand at the regular grocer was HARD TO FIND I paced the aisle twice then found just two rows of Navy sandwiched in between everything else. However I am going to try kidney beans too because it ranked high in RS too and mom used to make a sweet chili with kidney beans and they never bothered me, for some reason my entire adult life has been bean-free which was a mistake. I never had UC when I was younger. Got it in 2006 around age 41. Too many years of all protein no beans.

Got the drink powder today and it contains fibersol-2 instead of Hi-Maize and maybe it will work better in my system.

PASTA: I got around to boiling some and cooled in the fridge for 'a period of time' and the rest will go overnight. I see from some comments that cooking to al dente is important and that is just the way I like it. Thanks for posting that tip.

Post Edited (aguywithuc) : 4/16/2013 11:45:10 PM (GMT-6)


therearemiracles
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Date Joined Dec 2006
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   Posted 4/17/2013 7:36 AM (GMT -6)   
Also Dr. Oz doctor they were interviewing said whole grain bread, much more fiber. Can anyone recommend a good whole grain bread?
 
They also said eat everything at room temp, not warm or hot I do believe.
 
I had brown rice for breakfast last two days, navy beans ( I soaked overnight and boiled in the am)  last night (incorporating ham, chicken or whatever protien too) so I'm trying this. Today my poop didn't stink as bad as it has in the past mornings, maybe the good bacteria are growing?
 
Yesterday was a day from heck for me, I bleed all day long and went to the bathroom probably 50 times!
 
Today this morning not as bad. Off Uceris back on asacol and canasa though and trying this addition of RS foods.
 
They said too this RS foods will pass the small intestine and go to the large intestine where there is bulking up and feeding good bacteria. White bread turns right into sugar in the small intestine and basically is SUGAR water when it reaches the bowel, not good and feeds the bad bacteria.
 
 
I stayed away from all this stuff (RS foods) too because I read veggies are the way to go, well maybe not anymore. Man I pray this is a positive result for my UC!
 WHen my UC started I was living on salads not fiber.
UC since '05 and DX with chronic Lyme's in 2010, (get tested by Igenix Lab) You have to be your own advocate in your health. 5-ASA no remission. Humira and Imuran didn't work. Asacol.

protocolteck
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts : 338
   Posted 4/17/2013 10:29 AM (GMT -6)   
aguy,

What exactly happened with you and the Hi-Maize? I noticed your comments were that it did not work at all. I have an order en route from Amazon and now a bit concerned that is actually made things worse for you. Was it just how it affected you or is it bad for us with UC/UP, etc ?

Thanks.
Male, 45
1 Canasa daily
VSL#3 twice a day
SF/Spinach Diet started 3/11/2013
Ulcerative Proctitis since 2/2012 (Colonoscopy)
Been flaring since 1/2012
Gluten Free since 12/1/2012-went into remission for 1 month going GF then symptoms returned in full force 1/1/2013. I still remain GF for other reasons.
Very active Mountain runner and Crossfit enthusiast

Old Mike
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3774
   Posted 4/17/2013 11:37 AM (GMT -6)   
In this study they used hmaze and did not get extra butyrate.
Just guessing we want the other types for butyrate.
Did get some gas today from beans,not bad but gas.
Old Mike
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9440388

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 4/17/2013 12:38:58 PM (GMT-6)


protocolteck
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts : 338
   Posted 4/17/2013 12:02 PM (GMT -6)   
Do you just need to cook/boil Brown Rice and/or pasta and then let it cool to room temp (10-15 minutes) or do you need to store it in the fridge overnight etc to get full RS benefit?.

Thanks.
Male, 45
1 Canasa daily
VSL#3 twice a day
SF/Spinach Diet started 3/11/2013
Ulcerative Proctitis since 2/2012 (Colonoscopy)
Been flaring since 1/2012
Gluten Free since 12/1/2012-went into remission for 1 month going GF then symptoms returned in full force 1/1/2013. I still remain GF for other reasons.
Very active Mountain runner and Crossfit enthusiast

aguywithuc
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 3005
   Posted 4/17/2013 1:54 PM (GMT -6)   
Old Mike said...
In this study they used hmaze and did not get extra butyrate.Just guessing we want the other types for butyrate.
Did get some gas today from beans,not bad but gas.
Old Mike
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9440388


That is good to know, I figured anything THAT processed would not be as beneficial as 'food' and would not have made the purchase but it was cheap so nothing ventured...

aguywithuc
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 3005
   Posted 4/17/2013 1:57 PM (GMT -6)   
therearemiracles said...
Man I pray this is a positive result for my UC!
WHen my UC started I was living on salads not fiber.


When I tapered I also used Raw Adrenals. I am off that too. Until today I used licorice root which I believe is only to be used when your off prednisone and I am going to cut back on that now.

Back on track now with under a can of Edens Navy beans, on the pasta and potato bandwagon too as it is hard to get all your RS from legumes.
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