Resistant Starch diet improves UC

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aguywithuc
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Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 3005
   Posted 4/17/2013 2:00 PM (GMT -6)   
protocolteck said...
Do you just need to cook/boil Brown Rice and/or pasta and then let it cool to room temp (10-15 minutes) or do you need to store it in the fridge overnight etc to get full RS benefit?.

Thanks.


I have a story written back a few pages where I got a ban of restaurant pasta and put it in fridge. I snacked out of it all week. I always improved but when I asked the chef which pasta and made my own it was no good at all.

1) I ate it hot
2) It was not 'stored' at a cool temp

seems the longer it is cooled the more it converts to RS, up to a point of course, but then good to just keep cooled until you eat it.

HI-MAIZE sounded great, and I was fine first 24 hours but I went hog wild dumping it raw into flavored water etc and it seemed like an almost allergic reaction to that much HI-MAIZE. Probably fine as flour substitute but NOT the BACKBONE of an RS diet for sure.

No more than 25% HI-MAIZE to 75% flour.

I tried to report that failed experiment right away so nobody would spend money on it, of course it may work for you so try baking with it or using in a real smoothie that has actual food. I was putting it into flavored water basically.

I am not on any UC meds, on 7.5mg of coumadin/warfarin daily
I supplement now with p-seed powder and more when off blood thinners.

I have stopped all protein powders except Pure Green Protein.
Once in a while oats-n-whey.

Post Edited (aguywithuc) : 4/17/2013 2:14:50 PM (GMT-6)


protocolteck
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts : 338
   Posted 4/17/2013 2:17 PM (GMT -6)   
aguywithuc said...
protocolteck said...
Do you just need to cook/boil Brown Rice and/or pasta and then let it cool to room temp (10-15 minutes) or do you need to store it in the fridge overnight etc to get full RS benefit?.

Thanks.


I have a story written back a few pages where I got a ban of restaurant pasta and put it in fridge. I snacked out of it all week. I always improved but when I asked the chef which pasta and made my own it was no good at all.

1) I ate it hot
2) It was not 'stored' at a cool temp

seems the longer it is cooled the more it converts to RS, up to a point of course, but then good to just keep cooled until you eat it.

HI-MAIZE sounded great, and I was fine first 24 hours but I went hog wild dumping it raw into flavored water etc and it seemed like an almost allergic reaction to that much HI-MAIZE. Probably fine as flour substitute but NOT the BACKBONE of an RS diet for sure.

I tried to report that failed experiment right away so nobody would spend money on it, of course it may work for you so try baking with it or using in a real smoothie that has actual food. I was putting it into flavored water basically.




Thanks, aguy. My Sodium Butyrate will be here today so I will start incorporating it into my diet. I have been having EXCELLENT results ( 8 days totally free of B+M), so far with fresh, organic Spinach sautéed with squash and eating SF seeds and 2 tsp's of tapioca flour daily. My Navy beans will be here later this week and will be adding cold brown rice/pasta.

Thanks.
Male, 45
1 Canasa daily
VSL#3 twice a day
SF/Spinach Diet started 3/11/2013. Added Resistant Starch 4/14/2013.
Ulcerative Proctitis since 2/2012 (Colonoscopy)
Been flaring since 1/2012
Gluten Free since 12/1/2012-went into remission for 1 month going GF then symptoms returned in full force 1/1/2013. I still remain GF for other reasons.
Mountain Runner and Level 1 Crossfit Athlete

aguywithuc
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 3005
   Posted 4/17/2013 2:24 PM (GMT -6)   
protocolteck said...
I have been having EXCELLENT results ( 8 days totally free of B+M), so far with fresh, organic Spinach sautéed with squash and eating SF seeds and 2 tsp's of tapioca flour daily. My Navy beans will be here later this week and will be adding cold brown rice/pasta.

Thanks.


Sauteeing with Olive Oil ? What kind of squash we are going to grocer here in a few minutes ?

protocolteck
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts : 338
   Posted 4/17/2013 2:35 PM (GMT -6)   
Yes, Organic Olive oil. I use both Yellow and Zucchini (Mexican squash), sautee for about 10-12 minutes or until soft then add Spinach for the last 5 minutes as it does not take long to shrink considerably.
Male, 45
1 Canasa daily
VSL#3 twice a day
SF/Spinach Diet started 3/11/2013. Added Resistant Starch 4/14/2013.
Ulcerative Proctitis since 2/2012 (Colonoscopy)
Been flaring since 1/2012
Gluten Free since 12/1/2012-went into remission for 1 month going GF then symptoms returned in full force 1/1/2013. I still remain GF for other reasons.
Mountain Runner and Level 1 Crossfit Athlete

protocolteck
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts : 338
   Posted 4/19/2013 10:46 AM (GMT -6)   
Things are still going well. I received my Hi Maize yesterday and will be implementing it with my morning protein shake with Sodium Butyrate and L-Glutamine. I will not be using as much as "aguy" did (I am using 2 tbspns-the same amount as I used for Tapioca Flour)) as I think he may have had a bit much initially when he had a bad reaction.

IMO, the resistant starch is helping along with Spinach and SF seed powder/butter.

Have a great weekend.
Male, 45
1 Canasa daily
VSL#3 twice a day
SF/Spinach Diet started 3/11/2013. Added Resistant Starch 4/14/2013.
Ulcerative Proctitis since 2/2012 (Colonoscopy)
Been flaring since 1/2012
Gluten Free since 12/1/2012-went into remission for 1 month going GF then symptoms returned in full force 1/1/2013. I still remain GF for other reasons.
Mountain Runner and Level 1 Crossfit Athlete

DanthaMan
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2005
Total Posts : 495
   Posted 4/19/2013 11:35 AM (GMT -6)   
FWIW, I did the exact same Hi-Maize back in July 2009 and didnt have the desired changes I wanted. I think like aguy said you can over do it by taking to much. I didnt reorder so it was a failed experiment for me. The sodium butyrate is working well going to eat the bean tonight and see if that further helps.
ACES+Zinc
Heathers Peppermint Oil
Curamed
Vitamin K Complex
Psyllium Seed/Slippery Elm
Sodium Butyrate.


UC since 2001, 32 year old male. Finding relief with no gluten/diary. Organic fruits/veggies/meat.

protocolteck
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts : 338
   Posted 4/19/2013 11:58 AM (GMT -6)   
I hear you, DanthaMan and will be monitoring the Hi Maize closely. I just wanted to change up the Tapioca Flour for a few days until my navy beans show up next week. I have been having green tip Banana's and think they are very helpful for me to eat , as well.

I strongly believe the Spinach+SF seed powder/butter+resistant starch+Sodium Butyrate is a very strong combination and has effectively (so far) shut down all B+M with ZERO side effects. Also, I simply feel better with more energy.

Best to all.
Male, 45
1 Canasa daily
VSL#3 twice a day
SF/Spinach Diet started 3/11/2013. Added Resistant Starch 4/14/2013.
Ulcerative Proctitis since 2/2012
Been flaring since 1/2012
Gluten Free since 12/1/2012-went into remission for 1 month going GF then symptoms returned in full force 1/1/2013. I still remain GF for other reasons.
Mountain Runner and Level 1 Crossfit Athlete
Sodium Butyrate

Old Mike
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3765
   Posted 4/28/2013 9:32 AM (GMT -6)   
Not sure if this was posted before thread large.
But anyway it would seem that you might want to eat your RS/beans when you eat meat,
or other high protein foods. This wil help shift the protein fermentation in the colon and its nasty byproducts.
 
Old Mike
also looks like it might take about 4 weeks to make changes.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15287679

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 4/28/2013 9:40:54 AM (GMT-6)


London Lurker
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2013
Total Posts : 1039
   Posted 4/28/2013 3:27 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for posting Mike, hadn't seen them before.
Proctitis 1984
Pan Colitis 1988
No major flare ups since, many well years between mild to moderate flares, some years without meds
No special diet other than low fibre and rare alcohol
Currently Mezavant XL x 2 per day
Salofalk Enema x 1 per day
B complex sublingual
Vit D (ceased K2)
Probiotics sometimes - started Mutaflor, VSL#3 March '13, good results so far

March '13 10 days on Flagyl

Old Mike
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3765
   Posted 4/28/2013 5:37 PM (GMT -6)   
Here is another study where even normal people mal digest lots of protein into the colon.
Excess protein makes it worse.  I can imaine if your small intestine is not working real well then you are dumping extra over and above normal people.
Old Mike

aguywithuc
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 3005
   Posted 4/29/2013 3:57 PM (GMT -6)   
Old Mike said...
Here is another study where even normal people mal digest lots of protein into the colon.Excess protein makes it worse. I can imaine if your small intestine is not working real well then you are dumping extra over and above normal people.
Old Mike
http://ajpgi.physiology.org/content/277/5/G935.full


Correct. I posted one study showing high protein thinned the intestinal mucosa, while RS thickened it.

Now RS all the time is kinda starchy so I was still dealing with blubber from prednisone and decided to increase protein. The RS healed up so much that I am fine on the right protein. Let me explain I took $200 in labs from directabs.com 10 lab bundle and showed my GP the ferritin is 40-400 and I am a lowly 20 and will need more iron infusions if we dont get this right. He said forget about the pills or greens eat dark chicken, eggs and get an iron skillet. Well out with the chicken breasts because my guts love the dark meat and it should help with the iron. Fat going away from pred now ( woot ! ).

So my perfect diet is dark meat and legumes and eggs. Salads here and there. Grass fed beef that is lean is also good.

London Lurker
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2013
Total Posts : 1039
   Posted 4/30/2013 2:22 PM (GMT -6)   
How about chicken liver? That's really really high in iron isn't it? Need to be free range, organic though to avoid a liver full of nasties I'd have thought.

I am amazed at how I am tolerating small amounts of navy beans without gas, am also eating cooled potatoes and pasta (and a really easy thing to take to work for lunch) and eating smaller amounts of protein (when you actually look at the RDA for protein versus the amount we consume, we consume far too much of it). This together with the high dose probiotics and mesalazine enemas are doing really well for me. After 2 months of nasty D due to some sort of infection, I am so much better. Currently feeling a bit confused about kefir as I think I bleed a bit after it. Also managed to get some raw, non-pasteurised sauerkraut and am amazed to be tolerating that too in small amounts.
Proctitis 1984
Pan Colitis 1988
No major flare ups since, many well years between mild to moderate flares, some years without meds
No special diet other than low fibre and rare alcohol
Currently Mezavant XL x 2 per day
Salofalk Enema x 1 per day
B complex sublingual
Vit D (ceased K2)
Probiotics sometimes - started Mutaflor, VSL#3 March '13, good results so far

March '13 10 days on Flagyl

Guardian7
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 2682
   Posted 5/1/2013 4:38 PM (GMT -6)   
Just ordered the sodium butyrate supplement that you guys linked from amazon. Will start it shortly, along with minor amounts of navy beans.

Little Buddy
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 52
   Posted 5/2/2013 10:19 AM (GMT -6)   
I started taking sodium butyrate (600mg x 2, twice a day) about 3 days ago. I am pleasantly surprised by how much better I feel! Much less pain and blood, although the D persists.

The downside is the horrific smell (both when you take the pills and on the back-end). This morning I noticed some joint stiffness in my fingers and hip - has anyone else noticed this side effect? This is the only medicine change I've made this week, so I have to think it's connected. Am a little worried that this is an untested supplement and I don't know if I'm mixing it with other meds in a dangerous way. Any thoughts?
38 YO Dx 9/2009 with left-side UC. Last scope 11/12 downgraded to UP.
Flare since 1/13. Started Uceris 3/2 and Rowasa. Lialda x 4.
Alt Treatments: Folic Acid, Calcium, Vitamin D, Olive Oil, Melatonin, Align, Zyrtec,
Diet = Spinach + SF + Resistant Starches
New: addded Sunflower Lecithin, Zinc and Sodium Butyrate 3/13.

TheAnswersYouSeek
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts : 2543
   Posted 5/2/2013 10:46 AM (GMT -6)   
Little Buddy, try doing a search online regaurding sodium butyrate. There are many many studies and infact, if you just read the ones in this thread there is a plethora of info. It has been shown to be very safe.

If you think you are having a reaction, obviously stop or cut back? No drug is good for everyone. Someone will have a reaction to everything.. you have to be in your own body and heed it.. but at the same time our bodies, atleast mine, do alot of really funky things that arent always connected to the things I think they are. If Im worried that something is going to be bad for me.. it usually is. So you should heed worry if you have done your research, think its a valid worry and you are having a physical response that you think is linked.
Current: No Dairy, Sugar, Wheat.. Olive leaf (20% Oleuoropein), NA-Cysteine, Triphalia, methylation pathway support, sodium butyrate, anantamul, Blis K12, VSL#3, PB8, Proteolytic enzymes, herbal antiviral/microbal protocol
My story www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=38&m=2644147

Little Buddy
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 52
   Posted 5/2/2013 11:43 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks so much for the quick response! It's not something I'm Really worried about, I just thought I'd canvas the crowd to see if I was the only one. I have read a lot of the research papers on this thread and on the NIH site about the efficacy of sodium butyrate (and am living the benefit); but there don't seem to be any studies about the ST /LT safety of oral supplementation, which implies some risk.

Today I am happy to make the trade off - better belly for some risk and stiff fingers - after weeks of feeling like garbage. The most exciting thing so far: I am hungry! I haven't felt any hunger for at least 2 weeks, it's just great and I'm thrilled to have a course of action that seems to have a real effect.
38 YO Dx 9/2009 with left-side UC. Last scope 11/12 downgraded to UP.
Flare since 1/13. Started Uceris 3/2 and Rowasa. Lialda x 4.
Alt Treatments: Folic Acid, Calcium, Vitamin D, Olive Oil, Melatonin, Align, Zyrtec,
Diet = Spinach + SF + Resistant Starches
New: addded Sunflower Lecithin, Zinc and Sodium Butyrate 3/13.

protocolteck
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts : 338
   Posted 5/2/2013 12:05 PM (GMT -6)   
There does not seem to be many (if any) bad side effects that I can see from the data I have seen, however doesnt imply it is safe for everyone , all the time.

I would look back over the last day or so and try and remember if you may have done something to strain your fingers and hip. It is more likely you did something physical to create the stiffness. Try adding L-Glutamine when you take your Sodium Butyrate as it supports muscle tissue and will get rid of your stiffness. That is why weightlifters use it-it lowers recovery time dramatically (and safely). L-Glutamine has been a godsend to this 45 year old fitness junkie.

Best...
Male, 45
No UC meds
VSL#3 2/day
SF/Spinach Diet started 3/11/2013. Added Resistant Starch 4/14/2013.
Ulcerative Proctitis since 2/2012
Remission since early April, 2013
Gluten Free since 12/1/2012-went into remission for 1 month going GF then symptoms returned on 1/1/2013. I still remain GF for other reasons.
Mountain Runner and Level 1 Crossfit Athlete
Sodium Butyrate
Vitamin E Suppositories

Eph
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2010
Total Posts : 310
   Posted 5/2/2013 12:41 PM (GMT -6)   
Little Buddy - are you taking 4 pills (2400mg) of Sodium Butylate per day?
Late 40s male
Diagnosed with ulcerative proctitis in 1988
Balsalazide (generic Colazal), 3g/2x day.
(lowered to 3g/1x day on 11/30/11)
2000IU Vit D3 daily.
Started LDN on 5/20/11 (4.5mg caps)
Started VSL#3DS (one sachet a day) on 6/28/11
Was symptom-free though 7/2011
Considering: Fecal transplant
Colonoscopy: 9/6/12, results: Ulcerative Proctitis still
Minor flare started 3/7/13

TheAnswersYouSeek
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts : 2543
   Posted 5/2/2013 12:50 PM (GMT -6)   
My dr has me taking 3000mg daily.
Current: No Dairy, Sugar, Wheat.. Olive leaf (20% Oleuoropein), NA-Cysteine, Triphalia, methylation pathway support, sodium butyrate, anantamul, Blis K12, VSL#3, PB8, Proteolytic enzymes, herbal antiviral/microbal protocol
My story www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=38&m=2644147

Eph
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2010
Total Posts : 310
   Posted 5/2/2013 12:54 PM (GMT -6)   
Your GI prescribed it??
Late 40s male
Diagnosed with ulcerative proctitis in 1988
Balsalazide (generic Colazal), 3g/2x day.
2000IU Vit D3 daily.
Started LDN on 5/20/11 (4.5mg caps)
Started VSL#3DS (one sachet a day) on 6/28/11
Was symptom-free though 7/2011
Minor flare started 3/7/13
Added: 1TBS Sunbutter, 600mg Sodium Butylate, and 2x Canasa/day and starting to feel better 5/1/13

aguywithuc
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 3005
   Posted 5/2/2013 1:14 PM (GMT -6)   
London Lurker said...
How about chicken liver? That's really really high in iron isn't it? Need to be free range, organic though to avoid a liver full of nasties I'd have thought.

I am amazed at how I am tolerating small amounts of navy beans without gas, am also eating cooled potatoes and pasta (and a really easy thing to take to work for lunch) and eating smaller amounts of protein (when you actually look at the RDA for protein versus the amount we consume, we consume far too much of it). This together with the high dose probiotics and mesalazine enemas are doing really well for me. After 2 months of nasty D due to some sort of infection, I am so much better. Currently feeling a bit confused about kefir as I think I bleed a bit after it. Also managed to get some raw, non-pasteurised sauerkraut and am amazed to be tolerating that too in small amounts.


Correct about the liver. I just am not ready to eat organs.

I actually took cooled pasta to work with me and will have a can of tuna in olive oil with it. I am really stumped how to eat cooled pasta. I would imagine its ok for it to warm to room temp, I mean its going to get to 98.6 as spoon as I consume it. But what do you put on it that is not hot, clearly hot spaghetti sauce is out...I am not much of a cook yet, still learning.

Thanks

TheAnswersYouSeek
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts : 2543
   Posted 5/2/2013 1:16 PM (GMT -6)   
He told me to take it, when and what doses.. it's not available by rx so he told me to buy it online.
Current: No Dairy, Sugar, Wheat.. Olive leaf (20% Oleuoropein), NA-Cysteine, Triphalia, methylation pathway support, sodium butyrate, anantamul, Blis K12, VSL#3, PB8, Proteolytic enzymes, herbal antiviral/microbal protocol
My story www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=38&m=2644147

protocolteck
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts : 338
   Posted 5/2/2013 1:21 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey Aguy,

I have read that if you reheat that type of RS, you will lose significant value. Remember, Pasta salad is cold and very tasty :)
Male, 45
No UC meds
VSL#3 2/day
SF/Spinach Diet started 3/11/2013. Added Resistant Starch 4/14/2013.
Ulcerative Proctitis since 2/2012
Remission since early April, 2013
Gluten Free since 12/1/2012-went into remission for 1 month going GF then symptoms returned on 1/1/2013. I still remain GF for other reasons.
Mountain Runner and Level 1 Crossfit Athlete
Sodium Butyrate
Vitamin E Suppositories

TheAnswersYouSeek
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts : 2543
   Posted 5/2/2013 1:43 PM (GMT -6)   
I also should clarify, he is not a GI, he is a Immunologist/Rheumatologist who has helped me with my gut problems more then any GI has ;)
Current: No Dairy, Sugar, Wheat.. Olive leaf (20% Oleuoropein), NA-Cysteine, Triphalia, methylation pathway support, sodium butyrate, anantamul, Blis K12, VSL#3, PB8, Proteolytic enzymes, herbal antiviral/microbal protocol
My story www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=38&m=2644147

Guardian7
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 2682
   Posted 5/2/2013 1:51 PM (GMT -6)   
I had success with cooked and cooled pasta a while back but I attributed it to chance or something -- never really knew it was the resistant starch thing. It really makes a lot of sense now. I'd probably be in remission now had I stuck with those "junk" foods.

I remember ordering tuscani pasta from pizza hut, storing it in the fridge and eating it cold the next day. I used to get the best bowel movements the day after. The pasta usually had semolina flour, which seems to be the standard if it isn't gluten free or whole grain. Even chef boyardee foods helped with bowel formation, which surprised me a bit since everyone calls those kind of foods unhealthy.

Post Edited (StealthGuardian) : 5/2/2013 1:54:28 PM (GMT-6)

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