zinc carnosine

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mock turtle
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Date Joined Mar 2011
Total Posts : 467
   Posted 9/18/2011 2:39 PM (GMT -6)   
then end of last june several of us were discussing foods, teas vitamins etc that weve tried and what does or does not seem to work

ginger tea....dgl and others

i think this is the thread
http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=45&m=2146915

there was a mention of zinc carnosine, and i recall that one of the medical schools back east had done a study indicating some degree of effectiveness for fighting gerd

has anyone here tried some kind of zinc formulation with any success?

edit to correct tittle

ok im worng, the study indicated that zinc salts could be a substitute for PPIs

the study did not say zinc salts could tigheten th LES

heres the link
http://opac.yale.edu/news/article.aspx?id=7700

2nd edit to correct what zinc does...less stomach acid, not tighten the LES...sorry

Post Edited (mock turtle) : 9/18/2011 2:54:21 PM (GMT-6)


mudmagnetmum
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Date Joined Apr 2011
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   Posted 9/18/2011 4:02 PM (GMT -6)   
Yes, I remember the zinc salt study. There is a product in the pipeline I think now, but these things take forever to appear on the chemist's shelf of course. If memory serves, I read something that said another more common form of zinc should also work (was it citrate or sulphate??) and so I did buy some. However, just as I was about to try it I found out I was anaemic, so I haven't take it very often (zinc and iron compete for absorption). So that's an incomplete experiment as yet . .

I'm giving fish oils a good go after reading about inflammation and essential fatty acids (I have bladder inflammation as well as gastritis, so I think there may be a link). There's a google book by Barry Sears which you may find interesting reading on that subject.

Have you come across "vitamin u" or Cabagin-U ?? It's some extract of cabbages, which is available in the USA as a spray with propolis - allegedly good for acid reflux and damaged throat etc. Can't get it here, but I wondered if you have come across it? I can't work out from the blurb whether Methionine is supposed to have the same effect (tho that wouldn't be in a liquid . . .).

I'm always running too many experiments; something always scuppers my plans cos I'll get a flare up, some other transient ailment, or life in general just gets in the way!!

MMM

PS: your other test you had coming up, is that done and was it OK?
New stuff: GERD. Interstitial Cystitis
Lifelong stuff: Food allergies, eczema, asthma

mock turtle
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2011
Total Posts : 467
   Posted 9/18/2011 5:16 PM (GMT -6)   
mmm

ah yes, the procedure...yes, thanks for asking

i was having bad headaches, fatigue light-headedness and more

so i had my head examined... :) literally, brain MRI

they found some things, that of course, require more testing (sending me to the poor house)

at this time the "growth" does not appear life threatening...unless it gets bigger

after all ive been thru in the last year,

including 3 sets of chest x rays, that first showed "spots" on my lungs, and then didnt...

a CT scan that suggested, (falsely) that i had TCC cancer in the middle calyx of my right kidney......

and now this... im just worn out...im worn out from worry and rapidly reaching the level of.... i dont give a rats behind anymore about what future i do or dont have...im just along for the ride

as for vitamin U...very interesting...thanks for the information, ill check it out

mudmagnetmum
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Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 1497
   Posted 9/19/2011 2:22 AM (GMT -6)   
Many moons ago I used to work for a doctor who said "If you go fishing . . . . " meaning that the advances in screening and xray technology and more advanced blood tests, meant that if you went on a fishing trip the odds were you would find something. Which then lead to having to be seen to do something about it, which is sometimes good and necessary, but often times the finding is just that, a "finding". Sometimes we're better off not knowing what lies beneath, but modern medicine doesn't give us that option anymore.

I'm sorry you didn't get any definitive answers on your last ride of the merry-go-round. Fingers crossed they'll sound the All Clear for you very soon,

MMM
New stuff: GERD. Interstitial Cystitis
Lifelong stuff: Food allergies, eczema, asthma

aeshleyrose
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Date Joined Jul 2011
Total Posts : 655
   Posted 9/19/2011 4:40 AM (GMT -6)   
Another set of fingers crossed for you, Mock. Hang in there, buddy. It's a tough row to hoe.

Ashley

PPI-LESS
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Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 374
   Posted 9/19/2011 8:25 AM (GMT -6)   
So, I am a little confused - it seems to me that the "zinc salts" quoted in the study are not the same as "zinc carnosine" - or are they? zinc carnosine is already available right now - and seems to be used primarily to treat peptic ulcers and such inside the stomach - while zinc salts quoted in the study (being compared with the PPIs) are not really available right now in vitamin stores / otc ?
That study does not mention the exact zinc salt - it is clearly not only zinc.

mudmagnetmum
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Date Joined Apr 2011
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   Posted 9/19/2011 9:14 AM (GMT -6)   
http://www.puritan.com/vf/healthnotes/HN_live/Supp/Carnosine.htm

There's a ref to it here, describing it as a zinc salt of carnosine. Last time I dug around I think I found a newspaper article which said you couldn't buy the same prep of zinc as used in the study (which I think used zinc chloride in a solution). They of course wouldn't use a form of zinc we could all pop out and buy - they're also after a marketable product!

MMM
New stuff: GERD. Interstitial Cystitis
Lifelong stuff: Food allergies, eczema, asthma

mudmagnetmum
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Date Joined Apr 2011
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   Posted 9/19/2011 9:20 AM (GMT -6)   
http://www.nature.com/ajg/journal/v106/n1/abs/ajg2010327a.html
This was the original abstract I read.

Somewhere else I read someone else's thoughts on what form of zinc might have a similar effect . . I'll see if I can find it.

MMM
New stuff: GERD. Interstitial Cystitis
Lifelong stuff: Food allergies, eczema, asthma

mudmagnetmum
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Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 1497
   Posted 9/19/2011 9:40 AM (GMT -6)   
http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20090035393

So here's some blurb to do with the patent process. If you scroll down and down to 0024 you will find they have specified that they want to use zinc chloride in combination with another zinc salt, and it mentions some other forms they want to play with. Presumably it's a small amount of zinc chloride . . . isn't it what's inside batteries?!!

Back to the hunt for the other article ....
New stuff: GERD. Interstitial Cystitis
Lifelong stuff: Food allergies, eczema, asthma

mudmagnetmum
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Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 1497
   Posted 9/19/2011 9:52 AM (GMT -6)   
http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=771590

Found it. Now I remember, it was another forum having a similar chat to us smilewinkgrin

MMM
New stuff: GERD. Interstitial Cystitis
Lifelong stuff: Food allergies, eczema, asthma

PH Fan
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Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 88
   Posted 9/19/2011 10:41 AM (GMT -6)   
I googled zinc salt a little bit ago and found alot of different sites talking about it's benefits for reflux,it would be nice too get away from the ppi's.

PPI-LESS
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Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 374
   Posted 9/19/2011 1:58 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks mudmagnetmum,

All the links that you dug out . have a lot of good information - esp. the patent application is loaded with technical information that I found very useful.

So .. if we want to try some sort of "edible water soluble zinc salt" .. how should we go about getting our hands on it?

Post Edited (PPI-LESS) : 9/19/2011 2:03:25 PM (GMT-6)


mudmagnetmum
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Date Joined Apr 2011
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   Posted 9/19/2011 4:03 PM (GMT -6)   
Hmm. Well you can get liquid zinc supplements. There's one by Energex but I can't see the nitty gritty details of what's in it. There's also something called "Zinc Drink" which is liquid zinc sulphate (which is a salt of zinc). There's also "ionic zinc" as a liquid supplement. The liquids aren't cheap but may be worth experimenting with!

MMM
New stuff: GERD. Interstitial Cystitis
Lifelong stuff: Food allergies, eczema, asthma

mudmagnetmum
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Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 1497
   Posted 9/19/2011 4:10 PM (GMT -6)   
PS EnerGex is also zinc sulphate

http://www.immunova.bm/products-remienergex.htm

If you enlarge the label you can just about read what's in it!

MMM
New stuff: GERD. Interstitial Cystitis
Lifelong stuff: Food allergies, eczema, asthma

PPI-LESS
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 374
   Posted 9/20/2011 10:42 AM (GMT -6)   
I am going to give Zinc Carnisone a try .. I'll start with Pepzin GI ... as some people claim that their reflux symptoms improved on this supplement .. and these claims also seem to suggest positive benefits:
pepzingi.com/health_claims.php

mudmagnetmum
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Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 1497
   Posted 9/20/2011 12:01 PM (GMT -6)   
I might give it a go too - can get zinc carnosine in the uk. Am not keen to try the ones with mastic gum as I already tried that and it didn't do anything at all (I think it works on Helicobacter which I've been told I don't have).

Ta for the link

MMM
New stuff: GERD. Interstitial Cystitis
Lifelong stuff: Food allergies, eczema, asthma

mudmagnetmum
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Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 1497
   Posted 9/20/2011 1:42 PM (GMT -6)   
http://www.jpp.krakow.pl/journal/archive/10_10/pdf/581_10_10_article.pdf

This ref is a bit heavy duty, and I haven't read it all, but the final concluding paragraph on the effects of zinc is interesting.

MMM
New stuff: GERD. Interstitial Cystitis
Lifelong stuff: Food allergies, eczema, asthma

PPI-LESS
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Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 374
   Posted 9/20/2011 2:40 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks. So looks like zinc and zinc compounds are quite effective for ulcers. Since their thesis is also that these compounds also cause "inhibition of gastric acid secretion", I am assuming that they can also help us with our reflux symptoms.

PPI-LESS
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 374
   Posted 9/20/2011 3:10 PM (GMT -6)   
One thing to note is that they say that the "plasma gastrin levels" increased with this treatment. Does it then mean that their withdrawal could also result in "acid rebound" symptoms similar to the PPI withdrawal?

mudmagnetmum
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Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 1497
   Posted 9/20/2011 4:36 PM (GMT -6)   
hmmm . . . Guess it could. Though perhaps the effects would be less given that we would likely be using lower doses than in the studies?? I think you upset the balance of copper and manganese if you take high dose zinc on more than a short term basis too. Though, for starters all we're trying to find out is can zinc reduce our symptoms - then if it did we would want to refine things. Also, unlike ppis, you can get zinc in low dose tablets, so it would be much easier to follow a tapered reducing dose. So perhaps anyone trying it should bear in mind that a rebound is theoretically possible and aim to taper off carefully . . . me thinks ....

MMM
New stuff: GERD. Interstitial Cystitis
Lifelong stuff: Food allergies, eczema, asthma

mudmagnetmum
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Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 1497
   Posted 9/25/2011 5:17 AM (GMT -6)   
http://www.maureenwilliamsnd.com/articles/heartburn.html

Useful link - this lady's webpage has a nice synopsis with references regarding supplements for heartburn type problems.

I'm not recommending her or any particular product (no idea who she is) but I just think the webpage is useful!

Happy reading!

MMM
New stuff: GERD. Interstitial Cystitis
Lifelong stuff: Food allergies, eczema, asthma

mock turtle
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Date Joined Mar 2011
Total Posts : 467
   Posted 9/25/2011 9:42 AM (GMT -6)   
mudmagnetmum, thanks for the outstanding research on the net..great information

best wishes
mt

mudmagnetmum
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Date Joined Apr 2011
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   Posted 9/25/2011 4:23 PM (GMT -6)   
Aw.... thanks MT blush

mudmagnetmum
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Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 1497
   Posted 9/30/2011 9:28 AM (GMT -6)   
I've got hold of some zinc carnosine to try now. Here's hoping....

I've also dug around the Internet a bit more. Seems that the zinc carnosine product used I Japan for stomach ulcers is called POLAPREZINC. It is a compound of zinc histidine and zinc carnosine and somewhere it says that zinc carnosine is released and stays in the stomach..

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2001/july2001_report_available_01.html
This ref talks about it - ignore the stuff (about something else) on the left; it's in the shaded box on the right.

If you understand chemistry, this is a link to the formula!

http://www.chemblink.com/products/107667-60-7.htm

I wish we had access to information showing exactly what treatments other countries use for GERD - this Japanese 'drug' is very interesting!

MMM
New stuff: GERD. Interstitial Cystitis
Lifelong stuff: Food allergies, eczema, asthma

mock turtle
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2011
Total Posts : 467
   Posted 9/30/2011 1:35 PM (GMT -6)   
you are welcome...im tryin it too
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