SIBO treatment, HCl and Enzymes to cure GERD

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GERD_Free
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Date Joined Oct 2011
Total Posts : 24
   Posted 11/1/2011 3:50 PM (GMT -6)   
Has anyone else tried OTC treatments for Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth (SIBO) / Candida, followed by stomach acid replacement (HCl) and digestive enzymes to treat (and cure) GERD? This worked extremely well for me. I now eat pretty much what I want (avoiding very spicy foods, soft drinks, caffeine, and too much sugar). Now I can have huge buffet size meals, with alcohol, within an hour or two of going to bed, etc. This is after my endoscope showed damage to my esophagus, caused by GERD. I was on PPI's for two years and that almost ruined my life, my food was not digesting and the SIBO and Candida only got much worse (as a direct result of PPI's).

The positive side effects of this program have also been wonderful (e.g. better digested food = vitamins being absorbed = various health improvements). You need stomach acid! Nine times out of 10 the GERD problem isn't too much stomach acid, its stomach acid bubbling up in to your esophagus through the Lower esophageal sphincter (LES). Strengthen the LES, eliminate the bubbling, and improve food digestion/transport, and most people will no longer have GERD. Best of all you can purchase what you need anywhere you want and using generics (I'm not selling anything, not even advice).

I just keep seeing all of these people starting PPI's and going under the knife and I personally believe most of this is avoidable. This program certainly changed my life for the better!

If anyone else has tried this please share your story!

PPI-LESS
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 375
   Posted 11/1/2011 4:52 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks Gerd_Free. It is great that you were able to get rid of the source of your problem and are now cured.

Unfortunately, there is no single cause for GERD:
- some people have it because of structural problems (hernia)
- some people have it because of the tLESrs (transient LES relaxations)
- some people have it because the food does not get digested correctly (low stomach acid, low digestive enzymes)
- some people have it because the GI-tract lining gets eroded due to various reasons (yeast, bacteria, lack of pro-bacteria etc.)
- some people have it because of poor eating habits / being overweight / pregnant etc.

It is easier to treat the ones that fall in the last 3 categories .. unfortunately not so in the first 2 categories ...

sunbeam48
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Date Joined Jun 2011
Total Posts : 784
   Posted 11/2/2011 7:25 AM (GMT -6)   
How does one strengthen the LES? I have gastritis, my stomach would not tolerate HCl.

theacidrefluxman
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Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 714
   Posted 11/2/2011 9:20 AM (GMT -6)   
@ sunbeam - my GERD is a roller-coaster regardless, so I can't pin my recent improvement to the use of l-glutamine...but I have started taking it since about 2 months ago. I read it can help tighten a loose LES...google it. I don't think a medical journal will tell you this, but I did see it cited in some places. Since it is an immune booster and also helps with my weight lifting I would take it regardless...but google and see if it isn't maybe worth a shot. It is the one thing I have heard of that is supposed to tighten the LES (apart from the stretta?)

GERD_Free
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Date Joined Oct 2011
Total Posts : 24
   Posted 11/2/2011 10:39 AM (GMT -6)   
@theacidrefluxman I too used l-glutamine, I think it helped but I don't think its necessary
@sunbeam48 I also had gastritis. The anti-Candida formula took care of that for me (I used "Now Foods Candida Clear"). I tried HCl before and I thought I was going to die in pain! After Candida clear (which also kills bacteria and parasites) taking HCl wasn't a problem. Try it at your own risk but I think its worth a shot.

Here is what I took:
$11 Vitacost Probiotic 10-20 - 20 Billion CFU
$14 Jarrow Saccharomyces (yeast based probiotic)
$14 Nutribiotic - Gse Liquid Concentrate, 4 fl oz liquid
$17 Now Foods Candida Clear Formula, Veg-capsules, 180-Count
$12 Super Enzymes 180 Tablets

All of this helps GERD as well. Bad bacterial in the lower intestine prevents digestion, this causes fermentation of food both there and in the stomach, as well as causing food to stay in the stomach far longer than it should. With too much food in the stomach and fermentation you get stomach acid bubbling up through the lower esophageal sphincter (LES) under pressure. We all know what happens after that. Digest the food properly with the HCL/Enzymes, kill the bad bacteria / yeast that slows food transport and causes fermentation gas, replace the bad bacteria with the good stuff (probioitcs) so that the lower intestine moves food properly (and addresses IBS) as well as fights bad bacteria / yeast. It all makes since, your GI won't disagree, he/she just won't prescribe it, ask them (I've asked 3 of them).

I also highly recommend the book "Why Stomach Acid Is Good for You: Natural Relief from Heartburn, Indigestion, Reflux and GERD" by Jonathan V. Wright, $11 on Amazon. It also discusses Candida, gastritis, SIBO, but not in great detail. According to the author (who has been writing about this for years) HCl actually helps strengthen the LES. I think just getting rid of the reverse pressure (bubbling acid / gas from the stomach) probably helps the most!

mudmagnetmum
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Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 1523
   Posted 11/2/2011 11:58 AM (GMT -6)   
I have wondered many times about bacterial problems, or "dysbiosis" as they call it. I was previously trained in nutritional therapy, so I very much understand the theory behind your regime. This 18 month long episode of GERD of mine, started soon after taking antibiotics for cystitis - so I've always wondered. I've even taken Fluconazole which you can get over the counter for candida - that made no difference. Neither did probiotics. I have gastritis, so I too would not tolerate HCL. At the moment every single supplement I try gives me more pain. My stomach tolerates nothing, except licorice, which leaves me unable to give my body any of the nutrients I know I really need.

As I say, I have practised as a nutritional therapist, but this GERD, more than anything I've ever gone through health wise, seems to laugh in the face of all my knowledge and training.

MMM in fed up mode.
New stuff: GERD. Interstitial Cystitis
Lifelong stuff: Food allergies, eczema, asthma

mudmagnetmum
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 1523
   Posted 11/2/2011 12:04 PM (GMT -6)   
PS: I notice the Now Foods Candida Clear contains oregano oil - which I also tried for cystitis. I would not recommend this to anyone with a sore oesophagus or gastritis - one drop in water was like swallowing fire for me shocked
Perhaps the amount in the Candida Clear is lower than in the liquid I have, but I would still say tread carefully if you have gastritis.
New stuff: GERD. Interstitial Cystitis
Lifelong stuff: Food allergies, eczema, asthma

mudmagnetmum
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 1523
   Posted 11/2/2011 12:12 PM (GMT -6)   
@GERDfree, I'm glad you've done well with this natural approach. I just wish my stomach would let me take supplements too!
New stuff: GERD. Interstitial Cystitis
Lifelong stuff: Food allergies, eczema, asthma

sunbeam48
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2011
Total Posts : 784
   Posted 11/2/2011 12:34 PM (GMT -6)   
I have Barrett's esophagus.  Doesn't it take acid to make that occur??

GERD_Free
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2011
Total Posts : 24
   Posted 11/2/2011 1:27 PM (GMT -6)   
@sunbeam48 - I'm not a doctor but you probably want to avoid HCl. You should probably still make sure you have no "dysbiosis" or candida. Probiotics are also important, to both fight the bad organisms and for food transport. I've found strong probiotics to be more effective than fiber to keep things moving. As you know Barrett's is pretty serious, this program is meant to help prevent conditions like that, not cure them. It may be possible that HCl and digestive enzymes can help, but only a good GI can tell you for sure.

@mudmagnetmum - I too had Gastritis (stomach inflammation, confirmed by a endoscope). It was so bad I couldn't even bend over, tying my shoes was extremely painful. This is probably what is causing your GERD. I was negative for Helicobacter pylori, but after taking Candida clear and grapefruit seed extract for one week my pain was gone (I also quit all sugar and refined carbohydrates during this time and took probiotics between meals). I then started taking HCl and experienced no pain. Previous attempts at taking HCl resulted in severe pain that lasted 2 - 3 days! It wouldn't hurt to take l-glutamine, licorice root, and mastic gum to help fix the stomach. But if you baby your stomach lining for a week it can often rebuild its self (do not take any NSAIDs!). Then try one HCl tablet at the beginning of a meal and see what happens. I had quit all my PPI's at the beginning of this but had some Tums handy just in case (I didn't need them). Its worth a shot. Its certainly changed my life (which is why I'm here). (Just as an aside, do you also get neck or back pain that started a few months after your GERD?)

mudmagnetmum
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 1523
   Posted 11/2/2011 1:55 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi,
I occasionally get pain that radiates to my back, but not often. Certainly I notice more pain if I do a lot of housework, bending, non-heavy lifting, hoovering etc, all seem to cause some discomfort.

If medication to clear candida didn't work, I'm not sure that anti- candida measures will change anything. Also, if you gave up sugar and carbs at the same time, it's hard to know how much benefit was due to that alone. I've already tried glutamine, mastic gum, licorice, marshmallow, grape seed extract, aloe vera, coconut milk, manuka honey and olive oil. I still take the olive oil because it's great for my skin but it did nothing for my stomach.

At the moment I get pain if I haven't eaten for a couple of hours, pain when I do eat, which slowly subsides. My best time is about half an hour after the main meal of the day. Fasting or not being able to eat on time makes me feel dreadful.

How long did you do the low sugar low carb bit for?

MMM
New stuff: GERD. Interstitial Cystitis
Lifelong stuff: Food allergies, eczema, asthma

GERD_Free
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2011
Total Posts : 24
   Posted 11/2/2011 2:48 PM (GMT -6)   
The low carb diet is to starve any microorganisms, its part of any anti-candida program and is often suggested for "dysbiosis". Most of the anti-candida formulas can't keep up unless carbs are also cut. Something is causing the inflammation, the two most common causes are bacteria or candida, and NSAIDs. Its easy to rule out NSAIDs, just quit taking them for a couple of weeks and see if you get better. Its a lot harder for stubborn inflammation. I had tried just low carb and probiotics before, it helped, but I still had GERD (and my years long diarrhea). Taking 2 probiotic 10/20's twice per day, 1 Saccharomyces twice per day, Candida clear (per bottle instructions), and grapefruit seed extract (not grape seed extract. This is good stuff! and has caused me no stomach pain. Read the reviews on Amazon), along with the low carb diet "cured" me within a week. At least I thought I was cured; the GERD stopped, the stomach pain quit (I could bend over again!), and I was feeling a lot better. But I soon noticed that my food still was not digesting very well, that's when I added the HCl / enzymes and read the book (mentioned above). Taking the HCl will prevent a reoccurrence of the dysbiosis and has the food moving again. All of this also cured the diarrhea and I have normal poops again, the first time in probably 10 years (the first 5 were intermittent, the last 5 was constant diarrhea, now its normal all the time)!

I would say give it a shot. You will have to quit the PPI's. Throw everything you can (above) at the dysbiosis. Add the high doses of probiotics. If your stomach pains and GERD are gone add the HCl. (having Tums handy in case you get pain)

Curing all of these ills left me with bad back and neck pains, which also had inflammation. That turned out to be caused by a magnesium deficiency, which was caused by the years of diarrhea. Adding a good magnesium supplement (without calcium) took care of that too (within 3 days!). That's why I was asking about neck or back pain.

oelkesm
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2012
Total Posts : 2
   Posted 2/27/2012 11:35 AM (GMT -6)   
Gerd_Free, I am so happy to have found this post! After over a year of searching for anything online that matched my symptoms, you are right on point! I was diagnosed with SIBO over a year ago and I strongly believe that stemmed from the PPIs I was taking. Every symptom you've listed hits home and I can't wait to start the healing process. Do you still take any of these supplements on a regular basis? Did you follow the low carb diet any longer than a week?

GERD_Free
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2011
Total Posts : 24
   Posted 2/27/2012 1:57 PM (GMT -6)   
@oelkesm - I take a the probiotics 3-4 times per week and the grapefruit seed extract (GSE) daily, I also take a Now brand Super Enzyme pill with each high protein meal. The GSE and the Enzyme / stomach acid replacement pill not only keeps the SIBO down but, at least for me, keeps the IBS away. I have to avoid some foods, but I can still have a little of them on occasion (for me uncooked dairy and chocolate are the main offenders. I also avoid high fructose corn syrup, the "blue" and "yellow" artificial sweeteners ("pink" and stevia are fine) and transfats. I think the damage that was done effects the man-made food products the most.

When reading all of this remember that if your stomach and small intestine aren't working correctly your symptoms can show up at either end of the GI (diarrhea and GERD) and everything in between.

Here is the long version of what I did to fix my problems (the short version might also work but I threw everything at it):

I had all of the normal GERD symptoms, as well as very bad diarrhea, food staying in my stomach way too long, constant GERD, leaky gut syndrome, constant lower stomach pain (to the point where I couldn't bend over) and other aliments caused by poor vitamin / mineral absorption (including back / neck pain!). I was a real mess and it was having a huge impact on my personal life and work. A few years ago my doctor prescribed Prilosec, over time this only made things much worse. I was diagnosed with SIBO, gastritis, GERD and the endoscope noted damage to my esophagus, yet all I got was a PPI that ended up making my problem worse.

Unless you have a condition that is causing your LES to stay open, or its badly damaged, I would say try what worked for me. Basically, your whole GI track needs your stomach to do its job and digest the food properly, if it doesn't all subsequent GI processes are messed up. In order for the stomach to digest its food correctly you need stomach acid, strong stomach acid. For many people with GERD (if not most) their body produces to little stomach acid, not too much. The cause of most GERD is the stomach acid gets past the the LES and in to the esophagus, where it doesn't belong, but this isn't caused by too much stomach acid. This is because of poor food transport (from poor digestion). When the food sits in the stomach it ferments, producing gas, and what stomach acid you do have gets blown past your LES (weakening it) in to your esophagus. Read the book mentioned below for more information. The Candida and/or bacterial imbalance (you probably have both, as I did, but this regime fixes both in most cases) starts all of this and causes inflammation of the stomach lining (gastritis) and small intestine. The inflammation causes the stomach to produce less acid (and actual damage to the stomach lining, which, luckily can usually heal within a week or two) which only promotes more bad organisms. Adding a PPI to this scenario only makes things worse, especially over time. I recommend reading the book below, taking it to your GI, and then get his/her OK on the following:


Here is what I took (you can search for these on Amazon or Vitacost, etc):
$11 Vitacost Probiotic 10-20 - 20 Billion CFU - I took two, twice per day, between meals
$14 Jarrow Saccharomyces (yeast based probiotic) - I took 1, twice per day, between meals (with above)
$14 Nutribiotic - Gse Liquid Concentrate, 4 fl oz liquid - I followed the bottle instructions on dose and took once per day
$17 Now Foods Candida Clear Formula, Veg-capsules, 180-Count - I followed the bottle instructions
$12 Super Enzymes 180 Tablets - I take one with every meal and one with protein / fiber containing snacks. Large protein / fiber containing meals I take two. You may have to do this for life if your stomach doesn't completely heal. But believe me, its worth it!
$0 a no sugar, low carb diet for 2 weeks. Reduced sugar and refined carbs for a few months after that.
$?? a good multi-vitamin, good nutrition. A good garlic supplement can also help

I recommend you read all of the product reviews on Amazon for these products.

All of the above helps GERD. Bad bacterial in the lower intestine prevents digestion, this causes fermentation of food both there and in the stomach, as well as causing food to stay in the stomach far longer than it should. With too much food in the stomach and fermentation you get stomach acid bubbling up through the lower esophageal sphincter (LES) under pressure. We all know what happens after that. Digest the food properly with the HCL/Enzymes, kill the bad bacteria / yeast that slows food transport and causes fermentation gas (and causes inflammation), replace the bad bacteria with the good stuff (probioitcs) so that the lower intestine moves food properly (and addresses IBS) as well as fights bad bacteria / yeast. It all makes since, your GI won't disagree, he/she just won't prescribe it, ask them (I've asked 3 of them).

I highly recommend the book "Why Stomach Acid Is Good for You: Natural Relief from Heartburn, Indigestion, Reflux and GERD" by Jonathan V. Wright, $11 on Amazon. It also discusses Candida, gastritis, SIBO, but not in great detail. According to the author (who has been writing about this for years) HCl actually helps strengthen the LES. I think just getting rid of the reverse pressure (bubbling acid / gas from the stomach) probably helps the most!

After you have your GERD under control I recommend trying Magnesium Malate and quiting calcium supplements for a while. Search Google for "magnesium breathing difficulty". A lot of people with poor food absorption end up with low levels of magnesium.

If you try this please come back and let us know how it worked!

oelkesm
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2012
Total Posts : 2
   Posted 3/5/2012 11:29 AM (GMT -6)   
Thank you for the info! Did you stop the PPIs cold turkey? Thankfully, I weaned myself off of those (painful experience), but I still use the H2 blockers like Pepcid. Weaker, but unfortunately still needed.

For your low carb, were you basically on just vegetables and meat? I've done very low carb and found it prevented me from getting good sleep. Hard to jump back into, but I want to really give this a good try. I got the supplements and I'm definitely starting to feel a difference. Just struggling with the eating.

CTabb4412
New Member


Date Joined Mar 2012
Total Posts : 6
   Posted 3/9/2012 2:09 PM (GMT -6)   
Hoping this thread is still active.... long story and appreciate anyone that can read and help.....

I've had heartburn for years....always attributed to trigger foods such as pizza and alcohol from high school and college years. 32 now, in good shape, workout regular, etc, but battling long-term heartburn and acid reflux.

Over last two years I've been off and on prilosec, which certainly helps and cuts back the acid reflux. I would try and take 1 if I knew i'd be eating trigger foods or having a rough night. And, then I'd occasionally take one pill every three days or so and that would be enough to keep it at bay.

about 8 months ago, I came down with the flu. Can't remember if I took medication or not....but, I do remember that post-flu I started having rough IBS...lot's of gas, diarrhea, etc. And, the heartburn rose to a new level. The IBS seemed to settle down with some probiotics and enzymes, but the heartburn never went away. Prilosec wasn't having the same relief anymore either. Saw my primary who tried other anti-acids and then eventually saw a GI who did an upper endoscopy. Found inflammation in the esophagus, but everything else looked okay. EXCEPT found overgrowth of candida in esophagus (not sure about stomach too). Recommended other tests for immune compromised illnesses, which I didn't believe was my case. Long story short, I did some research and concluded that I must have a candida overgrowth which is causing my GERD/Acid Reflux/Burping.

FYI, other symptoms that might now be attributed to this are left-side stomach pain, right below ribs, terrible long-term memory, muscle cramping at night.

Anyhow, so I went on anti-candida diet, starting taking anti-fungals, etc. I haven't had a prilosec since. From that standpoint, i've experienced drastic improvement. But, I know my symptoms aren't gone. I decided to start having some fruit (A LOT OF FRUIT - love bananas, strawberries, etc) after about 5 weeks and my symptoms slowly came back. I have such a tough time with healthy eating not being allowed. I am a healthy guy - 6'3, 190lbs, workout, etc. But, I can't have fruit??? And, I can't have a glass of wine at dinner??

So, over last 2-3 weeks, i've more or less been back on the candida-diet, but still allowing myself small amounts of fruit and a serving or two of either brown rice/quinoa at dinner/lunch after 'testing the waters' for 10 days.

My primary and GI are not of much use and can't afford a naturopath so i'm trying to figure out my best course of action. I still haven't had a prilosec, though my heartburn has not been kept at bay 100%....I feel like it's still there....like there is still inflammation in my esophagus. And, i'm still burping a TON. I also still have left-side stomach pain and other symptoms....

So much of the information out there is confusing and I really am at a loss right now as to what I should do.

Want to eat normal again (though my normal is very healthy, low-carb, high good fats, high protein) and not have heartburn.

For supplements, I'm taking - grapefruit seed extract, oil of oregano, garlic kyolic, coconut oil, on rotation (about every 4-5 days I switch). I'm also taking Primal Defense Ultra Probiotic. And just started taking Heartburn Free (D-Limonene). Vitamins - B vitamin complex, Vitamin C.

Any help is MUCH appreciated.....

sunbeam48
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2011
Total Posts : 784
   Posted 3/9/2012 4:14 PM (GMT -6)   
Maybe you want to consider the Koufman diet, which is based on healthy eating. You would need to limit fats, even good ones, limit wine, and some fruits. I used to eat an orange every morning, but now I have a banana. Ive got a thread going here a few pages back. My first post there contains the basics.

CTabb4412
New Member


Date Joined Mar 2012
Total Posts : 6
   Posted 3/12/2012 10:57 AM (GMT -6)   
Sunbeam, will take a look, but carbs feed Candida....that is my problem. I had a diagnosis of it with an upper-endoscopy. Since I already had the diagnosis, not sure it makes sense for me to try a low-fat, high-carb diet.

Senna
New Member


Date Joined Mar 2012
Total Posts : 3
   Posted 3/23/2012 8:27 AM (GMT -6)   
Thank you GERD_Free for such honest and helpful info.
I have H.Pylori and most of the symptoms related to SIBO. Antibiotics given by my GB did not work and I am looking for the alternatives treatments. I am very keen on using enzymes and probiotics and surfing the net to learn about them. Your enzyme supplement you used contains Ox Bile. I remember reading somewhere that enzymes with animal based origins are addictive and also this: "....Pancreatic enzymes are animal based and only function in your small intestine. If pancreatic enzymes are taken with food they will be destroyed by the acids in your stomach, and therefore, they are not nearly as effective as plant enzymes.... http://thyroid.about.com/library/news/blenzymes.htm).
What are your thoughts about those two points?

Featherstar
New Member


Date Joined Mar 2012
Total Posts : 19
   Posted 3/24/2012 1:15 AM (GMT -6)   
Dear gerd free Did you take all your probiotics at the same time?.as well as all the other supplements you mentioned?

Henrifromparis
New Member


Date Joined Jan 2012
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 5/25/2012 1:11 PM (GMT -6)   
I am adding my contribution with this interesting post.
The strategy proposed seem interesting but for some cases of SIBO,probiotics make things worse.
Whatever probiotics I try results in a worsen GERD, my only explanation somehow bacterias stick in the duodenum cpushing bak gas and so causing GERD because my gerd symptoms usually happen 1.30 2hours after a meal.
I have tried many many probiotics but always the same results, GERD worse, the more bacterias in the probiotic the more gerd
I read in some other forums some other people who have the same problem as me...
 
May be after one or two months or probiotics I would get a reversed result but I just can't handle so long since my oesophagus is already pretty bad damaged...
 
If anyone has the same experience please share
 

ericapeace2000
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Mar 2012
Total Posts : 974
   Posted 5/25/2012 2:40 PM (GMT -6)   
Has anyone been using the L-Glutamine with success?
Diagnosed GERD, no other medical conditions (this one is enough)

khatadin
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2013
Total Posts : 17
   Posted 4/26/2013 3:03 PM (GMT -6)   
oelkesm and/or Gerd_Free,

If you are still out there: 1) Gerdfree, how did you quite Prilosec and switch to HCL? 2) oelkesm -- did you have any luck following GERD_Free's approach? I have a similar issue with PPIs leading to SIBO, or at least exacerbating it. thanks

sunbeam48
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2011
Total Posts : 784
   Posted 4/26/2013 6:01 PM (GMT -6)   
I used the Fast Tract for Heartburn diet to get off acid-reducing meds and treating my SIBO. I keep my meals small, eat pretty normally, take a TUMS some days to deal with occasional heartburn.

khatadin
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2013
Total Posts : 17
   Posted 4/26/2013 7:31 PM (GMT -6)   
Sunbeam. interesting. I am just embarking on the Fast Tract diet. I have reflux and SIBO...I believe SIBO is causing, or certainly exacerbating, Reflux. And the Prilosec is making SIBO worse. My question is: how soon into the diet did you start weaning off PPIs? Did you experience the SIBO "die-off" or PPI rebound? I am very intersted in understanding how you navigated this.
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