nurse's aide held mother down while nurse took blood.

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wiggyann
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Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 171
   Posted 7/9/2010 3:23 PM (GMT -7)   
I was at the nursing home today helping mother eat her dinner and before we left the dinner table a nurse stopped by and said she needed to get blood from her. Mother had a blood clot in her leg shortly after she entered the nursing home a year ago which was dissolved with medication.  After that,  the nursing home physician put her on coumadin and she has had to have blood tests  once or twice a week ever since.  I am at the nursing home a lot and the tops of mother's hands are always black and blue from having blood tests.  Today, the nurse wheeled mother into a nearby hall and I stayed near the dining area.  Eventually, the nurse wheeled her back and said, "She wouldn't let me give her the blood test." She also told me that mother's jacket had blood on it and I might want to wash it off with cold water before it set.  So, I knew she had stuck  her already.  I was wheeling mother down to her room when the nurse passed me up and told a nurse's aide that my mother wouldn't  let her take blood.  I heard the nurse's aide say, I will hold her down for you.  Something about this didn't sit well with me, but I stayed out in the hall while they pushed mother into her room.  Then, I began to hear her crying and begging them to stop and after awhile I went in there and they had not finished and were taking a tube of  blood out of the needle in her hand and in between sobs, mother said,  "I hate this," and then I said,  "I hate this too, and I don't understand why you have to have these blood tests all of the time!."   Mother has very thin veins and they collapse and a nurse told me when mother was in the hospital that she needed a thin needle when they took blood from her becaue because they always have to stick her more than several times before they finally get a vein.  I mentioned to the nurse and she replied that they were all the same size and told me because mother was taking coumadin she had to have the blood tests.  It just hasn't been a good day :-(
 
Wiggyann

SnowyLynne
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Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 1539
   Posted 7/10/2010 1:21 AM (GMT -7)   
Talk to her Dr.let him ease your fears & explain this to you.....This should have been done at the start...OR you can look it up online........
SnowyLynne


Red_34
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Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 23413
   Posted 7/10/2010 5:33 AM (GMT -7)   
My gma had the same issues. She wasn't on coumadin but she did have tiny veins. She had so many veins blow because the nurses couldn't get a needle or Iv line in. It was horrible to see them poking her so many times and of course it would hurt her. The blood tests are pretty much mandatory for people on blood thinners. It's for your mother's own health. I know it's hard and it can be hard for people with dementia to understand. But no, not all the needles are the same size. Talk to her doc and see if it's possible to have the nurses start using pediatric needles for the blood draw. It will be slower to get the blood but it might be easier on your mother's veins.
 @--->--SHERRY--<---@
Moderator-Allergies/Asthma, Co-moderator-UC and Alzheimer's
~Left sided Uc-'92**Unable to tolerate ALL mesalamines**
Colazal(6 daily)/6mp(50-100mgs)/Bentyl-Prilosec/Biotin/Forvia/Pro-Bio~allergies-Singulair/Zyrtec~Reynauds Syndrome~OA (hands and spine)-Tylonel Arthritis/Celebrex~Scoliosis~Sacroilitis~Dry eye-Restasis
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SnowyLynne
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Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 1539
   Posted 7/10/2010 10:44 AM (GMT -7)   
I have the same type veins,& have for years.When they start grabing an arm I say NO. Do it my way or I'm going home........They will get the anethesist up to do the job.They know what they are doing.....I flat got tired of being poked have a vein blow out so I put a stop to it.....I pray hubby can rescue me in the same manore when I can't speak for myself anymore......
SnowyLynne


wiggyann
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 171
   Posted 7/10/2010 11:07 AM (GMT -7)   
Thanks SnowyLynne and Red_34 for all of your help.

I'm glad you spoke when you had blood work done. I took mother to the doctor' once for a blood test and they sent a young man up from the lab to do it. He told us he hadn't been there but a few days and I told him I wanted someone who was very experienced to draw mother's blood because of the problems she had with her veins and he left and someone else came up and mother had an easy time that day. Yesterday I heard mother screaming and screaming from the hall where I was waiting until finally I went into the room and she was crying and begging them to stop. It upset me that someone was holding her down. If I happen to just touch mother's hand when she is in bed alseep, she will jump and hollar "No, No!" and I know she is thinking they are going to do another blood test. She has done that before too. Maybe the nurse isn't very profficient at what she does. Something doesn't seem right.

Wiggyann

SmurfyShadow
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Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 2386
   Posted 7/10/2010 12:51 PM (GMT -7)   
As a former nursing home employee and a current caretaker, my advice is to get them out of that facility right away. I suspect more things than that. They are not listening to you or the patient. There are different sized needles, including pediatric sized which is great for smaller veins. The thing with pediatric size in adults is that it takes longer to draw the blood. There is also things like a pic line they can do, a process of like having your iv in you for long periods that you can take blood from too. You just have to "flush" out the blood when your done and kept it clean. That way they don't get repeatedly poked. I have rolling and collapsing veins, and I'm a fainter. I've learned for me it is best to use a shot of lidacane (a drug that numbs) and butterfly needle in pediatric.
 
Smurfy Shadow/Desirèe 
DX: Wegener's Disease, Migraines, Diabetese Type II, PCOS, Lactose Intolerant, Benign Heart Murmer, Depression, Asthma, Asperger's Syndrome, Necrotizing Gramultous Inflamation in eye, A.D.D., Acid Reflux, Tumor Behind the Eye, Carpal Tunnel, Fibromyolgia, Clasterphobic, Arthritis
Medications:  Tri Nessa, Percocet, Metformin, Prilosec, Protonix, Zantac, Advair, Cingulair, Albuterol, Calcium + Vitamin D, Pro-Air, Pepcid, Rolaids, Zofran, Compuzeen, Refresh Plus Eye Drops  PRN: Epi-Pen, Albuterol Nebulizer, Benedryl
Undergoing Radiation Taking Lorazepam (Ativan) on Radiation Days


wiggyann
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 171
   Posted 7/10/2010 2:01 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks Smurfy Shadow,

You've really given me some things to think about. As a nurse who does blood tests all of the time, she should have known there were different size needles. Both she and the aide or nurse who held mother down both chastised me and said that because of the kind of medication mother was on (coumadin), she had to have these blood tests done and even though they hurt, she has to have them. about that time I wanted to hit both of them :-(

Wiggyann

SnowyLynne
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Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 1539
   Posted 7/11/2010 5:31 AM (GMT -7)   
When I get blood drawn at our clinic they use a butterfly needle,no pain but gets the job done....
SnowyLynne


Red_34
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 23413
   Posted 7/11/2010 6:09 AM (GMT -7)   
Oh I have a feeling that this nurse knows about the different size needles but she was either too lazy to wait for the slower blood draw or just didn't care to explain. Something about that doesn't sound right. But do not let anyone intimidate you in the medical field...you are the voice for your mother and sometimes you have to speak up on her behalf. I can not tell you how many times I have had battles with some doctors and nurses over my Gma - I refused, absolutely refused to have anyone treat her like a second class citizen because of her mental status.


 @--->--SHERRY--<---@
Moderator-Allergies/Asthma, Co-moderator-UC and Alzheimer's
~Left sided Uc-'92**Unable to tolerate ALL mesalamines**
Colazal(6 daily)/6mp(50-100mgs)/Bentyl-Prilosec/Biotin/Forvia/Pro-Bio~allergies-Singulair/Zyrtec~Reynauds Syndrome~OA (hands and spine)-Tylonel Arthritis/Celebrex~Scoliosis~Sacroilitis~Dry eye-Restasis
To help Healingwell - click here: DONATE
 
 
 
 
 

 
 


SmurfyShadow
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Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 2386
   Posted 7/11/2010 4:14 PM (GMT -7)   
The coumadin does require blood tests, usually its only once every two weeks. But it does vary between patients. The patient will bruise easy, With them holding her down, can be considered abuse. They are away of her medication, they are aware of the side effects. With how your mother is acting, remove her from that facility and call protective services. You can call Department Of Human Services, and report it, also you can ask them to sign her/you up for programs for Respite. There are programs where you can have her living with you, and they will provide you help in her care. I'm currently signed up in one.
 
Smurfy Shadow/Desirèe 
DX: Wegener's Disease, Migraines, Diabetese Type II, PCOS, Lactose Intolerant, Benign Heart Murmer, Depression, Asthma, Asperger's Syndrome, Necrotizing Gramultous Inflamation in eye, A.D.D., Acid Reflux, Tumor Behind the Eye, Carpal Tunnel, Fibromyolgia, Clasterphobic, Arthritis, Anxiety
Medications:  Tri Nessa, Percocet, Metformin, Prednisone, Cingulair, Albuterol, Pro-Air, Morphine, Rolaids, Zofran, Compuzeen, Refresh Plus Eye Drops, Percocet, Immuran, Alvesco, Allerga, Gabapentin, Visteral  PRN: Epi-Pen, Albuterol Nebulizer, Benedryl Undergoing Chemotherapy Taking Lorazepam (Ativan) For MRIs and Anxiety, Surpressed Immune Sytem


SmurfyShadow
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 2386
   Posted 7/11/2010 4:16 PM (GMT -7)   
oops aware** not away hah
 
Smurfy Shadow/Desirèe 
DX: Wegener's Disease, Migraines, Diabetese Type II, PCOS, Lactose Intolerant, Benign Heart Murmer, Depression, Asthma, Asperger's Syndrome, Necrotizing Gramultous Inflamation in eye, A.D.D., Acid Reflux, Tumor Behind the Eye, Carpal Tunnel, Fibromyolgia, Clasterphobic, Arthritis, Anxiety
Medications:  Tri Nessa, Percocet, Metformin, Prednisone, Cingulair, Albuterol, Pro-Air, Morphine, Rolaids, Zofran, Compuzeen, Refresh Plus Eye Drops, Percocet, Immuran, Alvesco, Allerga, Gabapentin, Visteral  PRN: Epi-Pen, Albuterol Nebulizer, Benedryl Undergoing Chemotherapy Taking Lorazepam (Ativan) For MRIs and Anxiety, Surpressed Immune Sytem


wiggyann
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 171
   Posted 7/12/2010 4:21 AM (GMT -7)   
 Smurfy Shadow
 
 May I ask what kind of help you get for your mother?
 
 My brother and I are going to the nursing home today
and talk to the director about how the nurse treated
mother and the aide who offered to hold her down.
 
Also, I would like to ask when mother wouldn't let them do the blood test after they stuck her a few times, why did they stop instead of forcing her against her will?
 
My brother is her power of attorney, but I don't think
he has agreed for them to force something on her that
is hurting her.  I don't think he has that right? 
I have read that the resident can refuse treatment
and they have to respect that.
 
Thank you,
Wiggyann
 
 
 

Red_34
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 23413
   Posted 7/12/2010 5:44 AM (GMT -7)   
Wiggyann, I was POA for my Gma and yes I could put a stop to anything that someone was doing to my grandmother. I had the ultimate say....it's like if someone was holding YOU down and you said stop, they would have to stop. But your brother is now your mother's voice instead.
 @--->--SHERRY--<---@
Moderator-Allergies/Asthma, Co-moderator-UC and Alzheimer's
~Left sided Uc-'92**Unable to tolerate ALL mesalamines**
Colazal(6 daily)/6mp(50-100mgs)/Bentyl-Prilosec/Biotin/Forvia/Pro-Bio~allergies-Singulair/Zyrtec~Reynauds Syndrome~OA (hands and spine)-Tylonel Arthritis/Celebrex~Scoliosis~Sacroilitis~Dry eye-Restasis
To help Healingwell - click here: DONATE
 
 
 
 
 

 
 


wiggyann
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 171
   Posted 7/12/2010 9:39 AM (GMT -7)   
Red-34

I just talked to my brother and he sees nothing wrong in them holding mother down and giving her these painful blood tests. He said that she has to have them because of the coumadin. I told him I was not going to come back to the nursing home because I could not handle that. I have been sick all weekend over what happened Friday. I just could not stand seeing them hurt my mother so. Thank you for all of your help smile

Wiggyann

SmurfyShadow
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Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 2386
   Posted 7/14/2010 11:16 AM (GMT -7)   
Who has guardianship? If your mother has her own guardianship, call a lawyer and became her guardian. I do a program with my grandmother. I live with my grandmother, who has dementia and I take care of her. We're currently enrolled in Free Family CareGiver Respite. Its a program that allots a family who cares for a loved one so much money a year to hire someone with training (you can obtain a list from the caseworker) and they come to your house, and give you a break. They can also reimburse a certain ammount of funds for medical needs like wheelchairs, canes, walkers, ensure (the drink), handrailings. If I were you first is to get guardianship tell your mom it is to make the people to stop holding her down, because she doesn't like it. Then call the DHS, and ask to speak with a caseworker involving Family Caregiving for Elders or Disabled. After you have guardianship, you can even pull her out of the facility and move her into your home. Your brother needs a wake up call if you ask me. He's lucky he's not my brother because I hold my own, growing up with three brothers and I'd dish it out and flat out ask him how he would like to be held down against his will to get blood work. All you want to do is help your mother. If there is a pic line inserted, which is VERY common for elders to have, its One poke. Its like an iv that just stays in you, and you clean it out every time it is used.
 
Smurfy Shadow/Desirèe 
DX: Wegener's Disease, Migraines, Diabetese Type II, PCOS, Lactose Intolerant, Benign Heart Murmer, Depression, Asthma, Asperger's Syndrome, Necrotizing Gramultous Inflamation in eye, A.D.D., Acid Reflux, Tumor Behind the Eye, Carpal Tunnel, Fibromyolgia, Clasterphobic, Arthritis, Anxiety
Medications:  Tri Nessa, Percocet, Metformin, Prednisone, Cingulair, Albuterol, Pro-Air, Morphine, Rolaids, Zofran, Compuzeen, Refresh Plus Eye Drops, Percocet, Immuran, Alvesco, Allerga, Gabapentin, Visteral  PRN: Epi-Pen, Albuterol Nebulizer, Benedryl Undergoing Chemotherapy Taking Lorazepam (Ativan) For MRIs and Anxiety, Surpressed Immune Sytem


wiggyann
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 171
   Posted 7/14/2010 5:02 PM (GMT -7)   

Hi Smurfy Shadow,

Appreciate all of your help.  Something has changed for mother.  I heard from my daughter who went to the nursing home yesterday evening that the nursing home checked mother's leg and the blood clot was gone. So they put her on a different kind of pill and she will have to get blood tests less often and they now have a butterfly needle to use when she does have to have them.

I have a friend who lives in New Zealand and she told me that they  have a system there whereby the nurse will put a very fine needle into someone's arm and it's attached to a fine tube. The tube stays in the armso that next time the nurse needs to take blood, no needle is used, they just open a tiny valve and the blood flows out.   Does that sound like the pic line you mentioned?  I don't know if they do those in the nursing home, but I sure wish mother would have had one for all of the painful blood tests she has had to go through since last year around this time.

I am glad that she will not have to get blood tests that often now.

My brother is her Power of Attorney and probably her Power of Attorney for healthcare.  I don't know if he is her guardian.  The lady at the nursing home took care of making him her power of attorney, etc. when mother first went into the nursing home.

I am going to save your post so I will have it to refer to.

Thank you so mucy,

Wiggyann

 


Howlyncat
Elite Member


Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 24909
   Posted 7/16/2010 10:07 AM (GMT -7)   
Am glad she wont need blood taken as she has been subjected too alot of pain n no doubt fear

jmho
lyn
                 Co Mod for... CROHNS..ANXIETY/ PANIC.....ALZHEIMERS
        DX.. a/p ....crohns ...fibro... pyoderma gangrenosum..seizures....deaf
            meds..lyrica..pentasa...valproic acid..ativan...diazepam....t 3 s prn
                  Help HEALING WELL...DONATE...www.HealingWell.com
                        WE CAN N WILL GET THRU THIS TOGETHER
                                                   LYN                       


wiggyann
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 171
   Posted 7/16/2010 12:31 PM (GMT -7)   
 
 
Dear Lyn,
 
Thank you for your compassion.  I know my mother lived
in fear of the blood tests and it is terrible to live in fear.
 
I just contacted a retired cardiologist on allexperts.com who has answered questions for me before and is a really nice person.  He mentioned that three to six months is the normal time period for being on coumadin after a blood clot.  Mother has been on it almost a year now. I'm so thankful they have put her an another pill with no blood tests.
 
Hope you are doing okay Lyn :-) 
Wiggyann
 
 

SmurfyShadow
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 2386
   Posted 7/16/2010 11:26 PM (GMT -7)   
Yes, that sounds about right for a pic line. Small tubes with a very small fine needle. It stays in your arm, so they can do bloodwork whenever. Your brother needs to realize that holding a grown adult down for bloowork work is not right. Perhaps saying to him "Hey I got question for you brother. How would you like if people held you down and stuck a needle in you every few days?" When he says he would not like it say "Well I don't think mom would like it either, and that is what is happening to her. In fact, if you think about it, you are letting them abuse her. Don't you love mom? There are other options they can do for her like a pic line which means one stick in her arm and the needle stays there with some tubes and they leave it in her arm for as long as they want or they can give her a shot of pain killer before doing the needle for blood work. I just want mom to be not hurting as bad cuz I love her."
 
Smurfy Shadow/Desirèe 
DX: Wegener's Disease, Migraines, Diabetese Type II, PCOS, Lactose Intolerant, Benign Heart Murmer, Depression, Asthma, Asperger's Syndrome, Necrotizing Gramultous Inflamation in eye, A.D.D., Acid Reflux, Tumor Behind the Eye, Carpal Tunnel, Fibromyolgia, Clasterphobic, Arthritis, Anxiety
Medications:  Tri Nessa, Percocet, Metformin, Prednisone, Cingulair, Albuterol, Pro-Air, Morphine, Rolaids, Zofran, Compuzeen, Refresh Plus Eye Drops, Percocet, Immuran, Alvesco, Allerga, Gabapentin, Visteral  PRN: Epi-Pen, Albuterol Nebulizer, Benedryl Undergoing Chemotherapy Taking Lorazepam (Ativan) For MRIs and Anxiety, Surpressed Immune Sytem


wiggyann
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 171
   Posted 7/17/2010 12:17 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi Smurfy Shadow,
 
Thanks very much for all of your help.  It means a lot
to me :-) 
 
I had mentioned that mother was taken off coumadin and put on another medication and she won't have to get
blood tests very often.  Actually, I found out that she
won't have to have blood tests at all, except for the thyroid medication she takes and only about four times a year. 
 
Wiggyann
 
 

SmurfyShadow
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 2386
   Posted 7/17/2010 11:40 PM (GMT -7)   
Do me favor will you? I know this sounds nuts, but its for the better. Visit your mother every day. Make sure to keep an eye on her skin, any kind bruising etc. When I worked in the nursing home, I saw some patients being abused, but the state wouldnt believe the annoymous tips they got of abuse because of where the bruises were located and nurses lying on how they got there. Most of the patients being abused were held down too hard for things, like "oh we had to be agressive to change their depends." I don't buy that. Maybe you have your mom in a good nursing home, maybe not. Only thing you can do do is visit every dya, ant different times so she always has the best of care. Keep an eye out for any bruising, and ask her about things. I am probably just being protective, but its because I've seen too much
 
Smurfy Shadow/Desirèe 
DX: Wegener's Disease, Migraines, Diabetese Type II, PCOS, Lactose Intolerant, Benign Heart Murmer, Depression, Asthma, Asperger's Syndrome, Necrotizing Gramultous Inflamation in eye, A.D.D., Acid Reflux, Tumor Behind the Eye, Carpal Tunnel, Fibromyolgia, Clasterphobic, Arthritis, Anxiety
Medications:  Tri Nessa, Percocet, Metformin, Prednisone, Cingulair, Albuterol, Pro-Air, Morphine, Rolaids, Zofran, Compuzeen, Refresh Plus Eye Drops, Percocet, Immuran, Alvesco, Allerga, Gabapentin, Visteral  PRN: Epi-Pen, Albuterol Nebulizer, Benedryl Undergoing Chemotherapy Taking Lorazepam (Ativan) For MRIs and Anxiety, Surpressed Immune Sytem


wiggyann
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 171
   Posted 7/18/2010 12:59 AM (GMT -7)   
Thank you so much for your concern Smurfy. My brother is there every day and I go in around 5:15 to feed mother and put her on the commode and put her to bed. If I"m not there my daughter goes or my aunts go, mother 's two sisters. So, we really do watch out for her. Even
the people who work at the nursing home have commented about it. A lot of the people there have no family left which is very sad. There are several volunteers that come in which is nice. And basically it is a nice nursing home. They have a shortage of aides but
it is hard work and the pay is not much. Also, sometimes
they have to double over if the aide reliving them can't make it in. So they have a big turnover in aides. But there are nurses on staff and others there who look after them and the people who work there are very caring.

I did find out that the nursing home pays a company and they send a nurse in to do the residents bloodwork.
I had thought it was a nurse from the nursing home who did mother's blood test. I still don't know why she only had one size needle and no finer needles or butterfly
needles. Mother has alway had collapsible veins and
needs a thin needle to keep from having to be stuck so many times.

Thank you for your concern. It warms my heart :-)

Howlyncat
Elite Member


Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 24909
   Posted 7/18/2010 3:30 PM (GMT -7)   
Hey Wiggy
How are you
im glad yr mom is off that n on the thyroid med will just need tests quarterly
it sounds like your family is keeping her surrounded with love and thats great
i wish you all the best
hugs
lyn
                 Co Mod for... CROHNS..ANXIETY/ PANIC.....ALZHEIMERS
        DX.. a/p ....crohns ...fibro... pyoderma gangrenosum..seizures....deaf
            meds..lyrica..pentasa...valproic acid..ativan...diazepam....t 3 s prn
                  Help HEALING WELL...DONATE...www.HealingWell.com
                        WE CAN N WILL GET THRU THIS TOGETHER
                                                   LYN                       


wiggyann
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 171
   Posted 7/18/2010 5:31 PM (GMT -7)   
Thank you, Lyn

I'm relieved things worked out the way they did.

I hope you are doing okay. I know you have a lot of health problems you have to deal with and yet you
continue to bless others. The world needs more people like you :-)

Wiggyann

SnowyLynne
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 1539
   Posted 7/18/2010 5:32 PM (GMT -7)   
They can use a Butterfly needle on her so much easier on her & them....
SnowyLynne

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