Assertiveness 101.....Being Able To Say No w/o Guilt..Taking What PPL Say/Do To Heart...YOU 2 ???

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Howlyncat
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Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 24909
   Posted 11/30/2008 3:17 PM (GMT -7)   
This is a thread that is SO close to my heart......
IT is me for sure
I was 8 yrs old and raising my brothers and sister
To this day they figure I can fix it all for them
All they have to do is ask and "oh yeah ....make me feel guilty" ....lol
 
WELL it was always me and yes I would put their problems with money or not having food  on my shoulders and I would make all the calls and find the ways to help them out ya know
I did not want to say NO nono  for fear that they would think LESS of me
I had to FIX it all for them so as not to lose the Love and Respect I thought this was bringing me........... eyes ...All I was doing is doing things for them that they could and should have done for selves I realize now ........
I was never a real assertive person other than at my Retirement Home cuz there I had lives that were in my hands and I was responsible for them
 1)Case and point......I had to FIRE Cait's bio dad for drinking on the job( was on nights and looking after residents nono ....THAT had to be 1 of the hardest but also a no brainer thing I had to do ......some in my family still make me feel bad for doing so ....or try to .......I dont
I knew what he was doing was so wrong...........
 
2) I was the only one that looked after mom and dad till their deaths ..I cannot count the number of times I asked for help as I was sick with IV and crohns but to no avail.....Cait had to jump in and she from this has grown up alot faster then I wanted her too
 
 3)My son Rick is 34 and out in Alberta and was doing GREAT.til his ex wanted him back for the money and now he is broke by day after pay day and he makes a thousand on pay.....
 
I truly do get upset when ppl think I am being mean like son he will throw guilt trip my way and expect monies to be there for him.........NO MORE.......TOUGH LOVE
 
I literally had to tell my brother it was TIME he moved bback home and pay for gas money to come back and forth to here for work....he was caught in an out and out lie about finding a place..HE was not looking........he had it great here 3 squares a dy and a luch ,thermos for work drove to and from work had the rec room t.v. the works
NEVER would he think I would go thru with it
BUT I DID...........TOUGH LOVE
 
I laso know he realizes now he could have done things differntly and they would not be in the bind they are.........
 
Siblings have not got the memories and the great times I DID have with mom and dad burnt into their minds ......I can do a replay whenever I feel the need to
THEY would have IF they had of helped.........TOUGH LOVE
 
I have come to realize that I have to be assertive to a point not where I will or want to hurt someone but for them to know I am not just here to walk all over
I am a YES person
Or I was.........
I use to feel so bleeding guilty saying no and I would let it play in my head for days ......same as what they said to me.....it would break my heart to hear them but I knew I could not give in I had to follow thru........
 
A little assertiveness does go a long way as does saying the dreaded word NO......IMHO
For me especially around the Holidays as I have lots so many loved ones at the Holidays it seems .......and yes I am somewhat fragile but a lot stronger than I use to be BUT I know to KEEP my health and Anxiety to a minumum of issues and problems I cannot be all to them
I may not want to be ya know
I DO have family and God knows I love them but at what cost to my health is it for them to be giving me honest love???? 
 
I guess all what I am trying to say is this
YOU cannot do it all
YOU have to look after your own health and anxiety /depression issues and
YOU cannot WEAR the mask daily
IT MUST COME OFF
 
It does not hurt to say NO once in awhile
Let the guilt slide off your back ( U have no reason to be guilty)
STart out slowly with learning to be assertive NOT hurting ppl but letting them know YOU have a backbone
ASK..........................
When you do this to me .......It makes me feel very bad and guilty ..why???
 
When I cannot send you monies or help you with monies ...........YOU put me on the "not talking to list" ( put your ? in this spot /Circumstances)
 
You make me feel ANGRY when you ..........Walk all over me ...I will not allow that anymore..I do not deserve it
 
You make me sad and hurt.................................. when you feel I am being selfish if I wont help you ........I cannot allow that anymore either
 
THERE are so many different scenario's here as for the most part a/p ppl and depressed ppl are GIVERS ....Givers of anything and everything
Never expecting things in return..........you can surely put your own excerpts into your posts ...............
 
Family IMHO are the worst for this as THEY know you and what buttons to push with you so having to say NO for once is not going to bring down the world..actually you would be surprised how GOOD you feel for standing up and being recognized as a stronger person than your family thought or KNEW before smilewinkgrin
These are just a few great things I have learned with the HW pl and my HW family.........
I CAN say no I do say NO and wow I am not EVIL .........
I have shown ppl I am stronger than I was before and I am not as easy to get around as once was........
 
I HAVE GROWN...........Taking Baby Steps yes ..........but still I have made alot of progress.........with your support and my needs
I cannot have my heart nor will I allow my heart to hurt for unessary reasons anymore
..wasted energy ....wasted life........
 
THis is why the family here and the ones I am so close with mean the world to me
YOU have seen the old me yrs ago and now the new me
I am not mean nor rude I am just assertive and still very supportive of all that you's want to do
 
I guess I just had to see what you have to say about this all ...........POST if you care too
 
Luvs to all
LYN
Love
Big sis
 DX: Crohns,Pyoderma Gangrenosum,Anxiety/Panic,
Fibro & Other DD

Donate at  www.healingwell.com
 
                               Moderator@Alzheimer's..
    CO Moderator @ Anxiety and Panic........Co Moderator   @ Crohns                    
                            ~ FIGHT the FIGHT with all YOU HAVE ~
               Look For The GOOD, Even At Your Lowest
  We Have Anxiety and Panic...................Anxiety and Panic DO NOT Have us         
   
..........LYN


getting by
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 40574
   Posted 11/30/2008 4:21 PM (GMT -7)   
Saying "NO" is one of the hardest things for me. I try not to even get into these situations, which I know isn't fair that I have to avoid certain people in order to achieve this.

Once I said no to my sister when she wanted money. She would have only drank it up, and did die from drinking herself to death. But she hated me after that and never let me forget it. But she knew I had always been an easy target before. Once I got a backbone, she didn't like it. At least I know that I didn't contribute to her death. But at that time it would have been a lot easier to give in and give her the money.

I do learn that a lot of people will forget that you said no to them, because they are always asking people for things, and they will eventually stop asking. And I think that they end up respecting you for making your own decision. It just is hard.

So I am getting better, but I find avoidance can be easier at times. I stay away from needy people that use you.

Family I think though is the hardest, they seem to think you owe things to them.

I hope that everybody has a wonderful day. I guess that we have to look after number one in these situations. We all need things, but we try to work it out for ourselves.

Hugs, Karen
  Moderator-Depression and fibromyalgia
 
fibromyalgia, Chronic fatigue, depression,allergies


Howlyncat
Elite Member


Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 24909
   Posted 11/30/2008 4:31 PM (GMT -7)   
Very good input Karen
Thank you
Makes ya think for sure
I use to avoid or just give in and
I was the same with getting mom booze til I could no longer enable her

I wish my family would just GET IT that I now am proud I can and do say NO
To them it is a definite entity that they thought they would never see with me but I am getting older and have learned many new ways of coping and getting threw things to fight this daily battle

Thanks again for posting

Luvs
LYN
 DX: Crohns,Pyoderma Gangrenosum,Anxiety/Panic,
Fibro & Other DD

Donate at  www.healingwell.com
 
                               Moderator@Alzheimer's..
    CO Moderator @ Anxiety and Panic........Co Moderator   @ Crohns                    
                            ~ FIGHT the FIGHT with all YOU HAVE ~
               Look For The GOOD, Even At Your Lowest
  We Have Anxiety and Panic...................Anxiety and Panic DO NOT Have us         
   
..........LYN


stkitt
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 32602
   Posted 11/30/2008 6:01 PM (GMT -7)   

Great topic Big Sis,

I am a yes person but working in management I learned to use my assertiveness after being sent to management training class.

I still get stuck in saying ok,  it is fine, we will let it go this time instead for following my training.

I love helping people but I hurt like others and I bleed when cut.  I have learned how to accept that I am allowing the situation to hurt me but I have also learned to let go of people that poison my life.

Because people are human and want to be liked and thought of kindly they will leave themselves open for the cryptic comment and if the offender is questioned......you will be told "I didn't say any thing, your just so touchy" Or you maybe threatened as Lyn said, well "I will not talk to you for the rest of my life."

 Perhaps you have someone that threatens to leave when things don't go there way.  I had staff that would threaten to leave and my answer was "I am sorry you feel that way and I am willing to discuss your problem with you."

I do not like confrontation but if I have to I will deal with it head on.

Here are some of the pointers I try to remember to reread when I start feeling my assertivenes start to slip.

Use feeling-talk. You can express your personal likes and interests spontaneously rather than stating things in neutral terms, You say "I like this soup" or "I love your blouse" rather than "This soup is good," You can use the phrase "I feel" or "I think" when it is appropriate,

Talk about yourself If you do something worthwhile and interesting, you can let your friends know about it, you don't monopolize the conversation, but you can mention your accomplishments when it is appropriate.

Make greeting-talk. You are outgoing and friendly with people you want to know better. You smile brightly and sound pleased to see them, you say,” Well, Hello! How good to see you again" rather than softly mumbling "H'lo" or nodding silently or looking embarrassed.

Accept compliments. You can accept compliments graciously ("Yes, I like this shirt, too") rather than disagreeing with them ("Oh, this old thing?"). You reward rather than punish your complimenter.

Use appropriate facial talk. Your facial expressions and voice inflections convey the same feelings your words are conveying. You can look people directly in the eye when conversing with them.

Disagree mildly. When you disagree with someone, you do not pretend to agree for the sake of keeping the peace. You can convey your disagreement mildly by looking away, or grimacing, or raising eyebrows, or shaking your head, or changing the topic of conversation.

Ask for clarification. If someone gives you garbled directions, instructions, or explanations, you can ask that person to restate them more clearly. Rather than going away confused and feeling dumb, you can say, "Your directions were not clear to me. Would you please go over them again?"

Ask why. When you are asked to do something that does not seem reasonable or enjoyable, you can ask, "Why do you want me to do that?"

Express active disagreement. When you disagree with someone and feel sure of your ground, you can express your disagreement by saying things like "I have a different view of that matter. My opinion is. . ." or "I think your opinion leaves out of consideration the following factors. . ."

Speak up for your rights. You do not let others take advantage of you when you feel put upon; you can say no persistently without feeling guilty. You can demand your rights and ask to be treated with fairness and justice. You can say, "I was next in line," or "Excuse me, but you will have to leave as I have another appointment now," or "Please turn down your radio," or "You're half an hour late for our appointment." You can register your complaints firmly without blowing up.

Be persistent. If you have a legitimate complaint, you can continue to restate it despite resistance from the other party until you get satisfaction. You do not allow one or two no's to cause you to give up.

Avoid justifying every opinion. In discussion, if someone continually argues and asks you why, why, why, you can stop the questioning by refusing to go along, or by reflecting it back to the other person. You can state simply, "That's just the way I feel. Those are my values. I don't have to justify everything I say. If justifying is so important to you, you might try justifying why you're disagreeing with me so much."

Remember you have the right to say no without an explanation.  "I am flattered you have asked me but I am saying no at this point in time"
 
Remember you have to take care of yourself first and only you can do that.  do not let others put you down, ignore them or let them go.  If you feel good about yourself you will be fine.  turn
 
I believe in You.
Hugs
Kitt
 

Kitt, Co-Moderator: Anxiety/Panic & Depression
& GERD  Forums
*~*
http://www.healingwell.com/donate *~*
Not a mental health professional of any kind
It is health that is real wealth and not pieces of gold and silver.~Mahatma Gandhi~
Clickable Link: Anxiety-Panic Resources


stkitt
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 32602
   Posted 12/1/2008 10:08 AM (GMT -7)   

You go Nikki.

I cannot tell you how long it has taken  me to learn how to say no instead of sure I can do that.

I am proud of you for learning it while you are young.

Kudos to you sweetie,

Kitt


Mazfire
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 1683
   Posted 12/1/2008 1:54 PM (GMT -7)   

I say no regularly even though it may hurt to do it- im not agressive, but i am assertive in nature and tend to defend myself when necessary, but people take advantage of the fact that i dont always say no, and i end up feeling used. so lately, if its something i dont want to do, or will be detrimental to someone else, i say no as politely as i can and try not to dwell on it.

Maz XX

 

p.s i try to NEVER be harsh, rude or confrontational. i try and be as polite and diplomatic as possible when i say 'no' to someone- example: the school asked me to play the piano for the staff choir for our school's presentation night, and i can play very well, but im in the middle of marking and writing reports and the thought of learning new music + rehearsals made me want to run for the hills. they tried to guilt trip me when i said i couldnt do it, and were overly persistant- in the end i said "im sorry that i cant do what you want, but i have to prioritise and im sure you agree that the students and their needs come first." best i could do.



            'He heals the broken hearted and binds up their wounds.' (Psalm 147:3)                  
 
Panic Disorder, Agoraphobia, CFS, Fibro, TMJ disorder, Endometriosis, PCOD, Chronic E.N.T infections, Reactive Arthritis, Sinusitis, IBS,  Allergies, Chemical/Noise/Light sensitivity, Trichotilomania, Seasonal Mood  Disorder, OCD.
Meds: Zoloft 150mg. Xanax 4mg. Celebrex. Mobic. Panadeine Forte. Digesic.
Multiple surgeries- I bear the scars of my poor physical health.
Age:28. First diagnosed at 14. Proud Aussie.
 
 

Post Edited (Mazfire) : 12/1/2008 2:07:42 PM (GMT-7)


stkitt
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 32602
   Posted 12/1/2008 5:21 PM (GMT -7)   

Kudos Maz, great answer to playing the piano.

When my staff would come to me crying and very angry as they had to be demoted or apologize to someone I would deal with their anger by telling them I could not have an appropiate converstaion when they were so angry and out of control.  I would ask them to think about the situation and set up a new appointment after they chilled a bit.

It is hard to see people upset and blaming you but they are responsible for their behavior.....................I am not.

I always gave them a hug if it was just a very emotional time for them.

Kitt

 


 

Kitt, Co-Moderator: Anxiety/Panic & Depression
& GERD  Forums
*~*
http://www.healingwell.com/donate *~*
Not a mental health professional of any kind
It is health that is real wealth and not pieces of gold and silver.~Mahatma Gandhi~
Clickable Link: Anxiety-Panic Resources


nervymeg
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 2721
   Posted 12/2/2008 7:57 PM (GMT -7)   

Wow,

What an inspirational thread. You are all such amazing people. I'm still learning to say "no". There is a huge difference between being assertive and being aggressive. (when I was a child) My father was always aggressive and my mother was never assertive so I learnt early on that I could never say "no" to a man. I still have issues with that. I much prefer female bosses!!

Fast forward 20 years and my mother is the most assertive person I know. She gave me a great book called "when I say no I feel guilty"..it teaches you so many skills. I think I may need to bang myself over the head with it a few times to get the point. lol!

I think it's important to get our own needs met, without trampling over other people. I would never trample, but I see those who do and it makes me so scared I want to run and hide.

Teach by example. I will learn from my HW family. Thankyou.

Meg


Co-moderator Anxiety/Panic
Panic Attack Survivor
 


Howlyncat
Elite Member


Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 24909
   Posted 12/3/2008 6:19 PM (GMT -7)   
I have to say I have never been aggressive but I have been assertive as of late
I too raised my siblings and they all feel that I "owe" them to some extent or have to "bail" them out

I dont have to

I will not perposelly hurt anyone but like most of you I too ahve to look out for my daughter and myself
Showing Cait it is okay for ppl to walk all over you is not showing her the appropraite way to deal with life nor ppl
IMHO

TO all I agree with each of you
I too had to let ppl go and that hurt me more than anything BUT they made serious errors and that can not be tolerated when dealing with patients ....meds and their care.........

I am so pleased to see the responses here

Thanks all for sharing your opinions on this matter.........

Luvs
Lyn

Love
Big sis
 DX: Crohns,Pyoderma Gangrenosum,Anxiety/Panic,
Fibro & Other DD

Donate at  www.healingwell.com
 
                               Moderator@Alzheimer's..
    CO Moderator @ Anxiety and Panic........Co Moderator   @ Crohns                    
                            ~ FIGHT the FIGHT with all YOU HAVE ~
               Look For The GOOD, Even At Your Lowest
  We Have Anxiety and Panic...................Anxiety and Panic DO NOT Have us         
   
..........LYN


TeacherBetsy
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 310
   Posted Yesterday 6:01 PM (GMT -7)   
Oh Lyn, I am SO glad that you raised this subject. I am terrible at saying no! And I always feel like I have to justify my decisions to people, like it isn't enough that it's okay with me to say no to something just because that's what I need. But you are right, we have to look out for ourselves sometimes. It is not okay to get hurt or let people walk over us. Thank you for raising this subject. I have so much work to do on this!

Betsy (-:
Dx Crohn's Disease 1996
Have taken Prednisone, Pentasa, Rowasa, and Asacol
Currently on Asacol 2400 mg daily to manage remission
 
 


Howlyncat
Elite Member


Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 24909
   Posted Today 6:58 PM (GMT -7)   
Betsy........

Alot of ap'ers and non ap'ers have the same problem
Cannot say no for fear of hurting or feeling guilty

I lived my life for everyone else for way too many yrs 'My heart was open and hurt many times
BEFORE finally my eyes were opened

WE will help you with this
YOU are not alone as you very well can see

Luvs
LYN
 DX: Crohns,Pyoderma Gangrenosum,Anxiety/Panic,
Fibro & Other DD

Donate at  www.healingwell.com
 
                               Moderator@Alzheimer's..
    CO Moderator @ Anxiety and Panic........Co Moderator   @ Crohns                    
                            ~ FIGHT the FIGHT with all YOU HAVE ~
               Look For The GOOD, Even At Your Lowest
  We Have Anxiety and Panic...................Anxiety and Panic DO NOT Have us         
   
..........LYN


nervymeg
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 2721
   Posted Today 9:02 PM (GMT -7)   

Betsy,

We can take assertiveness 101 together!! You hold my hand and I will hold your hand.

We can do this okay? We can say no.

Meg


Co-moderator Anxiety/Panic
Panic Attack Survivor
 


ocean1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 707
   Posted 12/7/2008 8:01 AM (GMT -7)   

Lyn,

What a wonderfully inspiring thread.  I needed to see this today.  I am a giver and not a taker and am in the process of trying to learn how to communicate feelings and such.  I've always been the one people came to when they needed something and never went to anyone when "I" needed something.  It was always about the others.  I'm lucky in one degree that I have a family who does not feel I "owe" them anything.  They are the only ones I can be my "true self" with.  I loved everyones thoughts on how they are taking control to take care of themselves first.  Saying no, communication skills, etc.  It all boils down to for me that I need to take control of my life and learn how to effectively communicate my needs and feelings in an honest and forthright but polite manner.  If my needs are not being met or I feel like I am being trampled on (which is more at work than anywhere else) it is my responsibility to make it known.  I can't expect anyone to read my mind and know what is going on inside.


Diane
LET US BE GRATEFUL TO PEOPLE WHO MAKE US HAPPY. 
THEY ARE THE CHARMING GARDENERS WHO MAKE OUR SOULS BLOSSOM.

Anxiety 2007; IBS 2004; Chronic Hives 2002.  Medications:  Allegra, Zantac, Xanax, Darvocet.


Howlyncat
Elite Member


Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 24909
   Posted 12/7/2008 2:44 PM (GMT -7)   
...Dianne
I can really relate to alot of what you are saying
'I too am a giver always have been

But when you are constantly being hurt by those you continually give to
There has to be boundaries set and
SO I set them and feel good that I did

YOU are doing a great thing my friend
'Keep it up and NO GUILT k


LUVS
LYN
 DX: Crohns,Pyoderma Gangrenosum,Anxiety/Panic,
Fibro & Other DD

Donate at  www.healingwell.com
 
                               Moderator@Alzheimer's..
    CO Moderator @ Anxiety and Panic........Co Moderator   @ Crohns                    
                            ~ FIGHT the FIGHT with all YOU HAVE ~
               Look For The GOOD, Even At Your Lowest
  We Have Anxiety and Panic...................Anxiety and Panic DO NOT Have us         
   
..........LYN


Howlyncat
Elite Member


Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 24909
   Posted 1/1/2009 4:59 PM (GMT -7)   
.........There are plenty of nasty things and words I could say to my DIL and son for just up and taking GK's away a couple of Provinces away from me without talking or discussing any of  it with me first but i have learned now to pick my battles
There will come  time when they need us and I will have to use tough love
............I will not lie I am hurt in so many ways.........
I will not tell them that nor give them the satisfaction that I am hurting so badly inside:They ( she ) asked for money and I was able to say no and I feel NO guilt over any of it as I know where money would go yeah ......NOT on the kids
 
The old me would habve totally flipped out but again I have learned to pick my battles and for me this helps in fighting my anxiety sores and flare ups
 
....Smile on like nothing is happening ........thats me .....lol turn


 DX: Crohns,Pyoderma Gangrenosum,Anxiety/Panic,
Fibro & Other DD

Donate at  www.healingwell.com
 
                               Moderator@Alzheimer's..
    CO Moderator @ Anxiety and Panic........Co Moderator   @ Crohns                    
                            ~ FIGHT the FIGHT with all YOU HAVE ~
               Look For The GOOD, Even At Your Lowest
  We Have Anxiety and Panic...................Anxiety and Panic DO NOT Have us         
   
..........LYN


Green Grove
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 2424
   Posted 1/3/2009 12:48 PM (GMT -7)   
Hey my friends. I just put a poem in the Inspirational Poetry Thread about saying no. A friend sent it to me for inspiration :)
Much Love, Hugs, Peace and Comfort!!!  Your Bro. . . Sam :)
 ~Co-Moderator Anxiety & Panic Forum~
 "When you come to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on!"
~Franklin D. Roosevelt~
~Click on the Ads to help HealingWell.com~
Not a medical professional.  Seek your physician's advice before making changes to your meds or lifestyle :)

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