you need to want to recover

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harry4
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   Posted 3/9/2007 1:56 PM (GMT -7)   
this may upset some but 20 years of trying to help agoraphobia sufferers has shown me that not all want to recover, and others have said this who tried to help earlier
 
the panic attacks and fears may be enjoyable and addictive, they may provide energy that enables difficult demanding work to be done, I know an architect who thrives on the energy from his panic attacks and phobias
 
being unable to work brings financial benefits which may seem to be the only thing that holds the family together
 
a partner may stay with the sufferer out of sympathy only and might leave if the sufferer recovers
 
the agoraphobia may cause excessive pride and stubborn behaviour, making learning coping skills impossible, also suggestions are seen as insults and slights
 
not all agoraphobia sufferers should be regarded as saints, some refuse to recover for the wrong reasons
 
sorry if anyone feels offended, but we only get to live on this earth the one time
recovered former longtime anxiety and panic attack sufferer and helper of other sufferers  but no training or  qualifications in medicine or psychology, any remarks that may be taken as advice must be confirmed with doctor or other health professional
emails are welcome but do mention healingwell to avoid risk of deletion as spam


Howlyncat
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   Posted 3/9/2007 3:10 PM (GMT -7)   
Thank you Harry
I believe this as well
YOU want to recover I totally agree and have said so many times
Sometimes I know it can be hard but take baby steps
DONT stand still it doesnt work
Appreciate your input
LYN
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Howlyncat
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   Posted 3/9/2007 3:36 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks so much for your input
Welcome to HW
I do hope you become an active member on the forums
LYN

** you helped yourself and did not let this DD win**
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Howlyncat
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   Posted 3/9/2007 3:38 PM (GMT -7)   
Please feel free to share your story if you want to it may help one person but that is one less battling this ya know
LYN
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debaser
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   Posted 3/9/2007 5:10 PM (GMT -7)   
I hope I'm not one of these people who refuse to recover, but I think I may be. My last two weeks have been extraordinarily bad. I'll have a good day and a bad day and then a bad day again and maybe a better day. On the whole I fear I'm getting worse. Haven't left my apartment much. Possibly getting agoraphobic even though I think it's rare for a guy. I don't know. Every night I'll go to sleep thinking the next day I'll do something different, but I haven't.

I've got medication but I'm afraid to take it. I want to but cannot seem to do it....afraid it will make me sick to my stomach, of course.

I'm not really sure what else to do. I mean, my panic does affect my stomach pretty badly (that's what the docs think and I've come to agree). On one hand it's reasonable not to want to go out into the world when you have these fits of illness, right? It's not that I'm AFRAID to be sick in front of others. I don't like it but "fear" doesn't really fit. But I can't live like this, either.

GFK
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Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 275
   Posted 3/9/2007 5:29 PM (GMT -7)   
debaser,

I think that's were the meds can help. They will at least take the edge off and allow you to get your feet under you again. It's much easier to work on taking those steps back into the world, learning CBT and relaxation, etc. when you feel somewhat in control and less overwhelmed.

The meds probably wont bother your stomach - at least any more than the a/p already is.

Take care,
Karen

debaser
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   Posted 3/9/2007 7:16 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks, Karen.

I know you're correct but I still cannot talk myself into it.

I've become so intensely skeptical of the medical profession that I wonder if I even had an anxiety problem before I was diagnosed with one. I know that sounds silly. I had some of the symptoms and then the stomach problems that had no other explanation, and then after hearing that diagnosis I started noticing other, more typical anxiety symptoms. Did my brain force them on my body psychosomatically? Did I have them all along but perhaps I just didn't recognize them for what they were?

So I guess I have this doubt. Doubt about the pill being able to help my stomach, and doubt that I have the disorder "for real" to begin with.

But I know I do. At least now I do. I'm just all mixed up these days....doubting, doubting, sure of myself, then back to doubting. I'm sick of it.

I just e-mailed a therapist. Hopefully she'll get back to me on Monday and I'll be able to start that soon. I'll pay her $200 an hour and we'll see if she can take me into taking the pills.

GFK
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Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 275
   Posted 3/10/2007 8:32 AM (GMT -7)   
WOW - $200/hr! My therapist was $90 - but that was about 12 yrs ago LOL!

I very highly recommend therapy. It alone had me panic free after my first bout with A/P. If your therapis suggests it, you may want to consider a benzo-type med for a short time. CBT is not the easiest thing to learn, and if your A/P is so bad as to be "consuming" you, it will make it much more difficult. You will need to give it time and be sure to do your "homework", it can be frustrating til things fall into place.

Keep us posted and hoping that you wont even need the long-term meds!!
Karen

Howlyncat
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   Posted 3/10/2007 9:01 AM (GMT -7)   
Karen is spot on here I think therapy is a great idea
The meds are or can be scary but I feel that once yu are able to take them you do have success
Thanks so much Karen again for GREAT input
LUVS ya
LYN
    Contribute today to support Healing Well Forums...Donate @
 
 
 Never compromise your self nor your dignity... 
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          ** When You FEEL Anothers Pain You FEEL Humbled ** 
 
   
                             
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debaser
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Date Joined Nov 2006
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   Posted 3/10/2007 10:18 AM (GMT -7)   
GFK said...
WOW - $200/hr! My therapist was $90 - but that was about 12 yrs ago LOL!

I very highly recommend therapy. It alone had me panic free after my first bout with A/P. If your therapis suggests it, you may want to consider a benzo-type med for a short time. CBT is not the easiest thing to learn, and if your A/P is so bad as to be "consuming" you, it will make it much more difficult. You will need to give it time and be sure to do your "homework", it can be frustrating til things fall into place.

Keep us posted and hoping that you wont even need the long-term meds!!
Karen


Yeah, the med I'm afraid to take? Klonopin....a benzo. I've done all the homework that can be done on it and know the facts, yet still won't take it. I'm less than two feet from the bottle right now. They're right in front of me and I've been taking them with me to work (when I go to work).

The therapist already e-mailed me back. There are some insurance questions I have to work out first but I may start as soon as Tuesday.

LondonGirl22
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Date Joined Jan 2006
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   Posted 3/10/2007 1:00 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Debaser,

It is sad when a person gets into this cycle where they can not help themselves and in a way, it is good that you can almost see that this is what you are doing. I know you are afraid of taking the medication but I'm afraid that this is a step you are going to have to take to start to get well again. If you have stomach problems, these are probably caused by the amount of anxiety you are suffering from so, in reality, the meds will help your stomach issues as they will help to relax you and reduce your anxiety. You won't have to take them forever, its just a stepping stone to start you on the right track.

When I was in hospital suffering with depression and anxiety, I met a lot of people who, for the majority of their lives, let their illnesses rule them. They became dependent on their illness and dependent on the mental health system and almost thrived on it. I would hate to see you become this way as you are stronger than you think and can get through this.

You just need to take things one day at a time and be able to really want to get better. My determination really helped me to get well. I didnt want to spend my whole life suffering and letting my illness take me over. You are in control - please don't let your illness control you.

Try the med - just once and see how you feel. What is the worst that can happen? Nothing really bad is going to happen to you by just trying one of the tablets.

Take care and keep in touch.

Victoria x

Moderator ~ Depression and Anxiety Forum

Contact me at: victoria@healingwell.net

Xx Sometimes we all have to go a little crazy just to stay sane xX

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wannabbetter
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Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 128
   Posted 3/10/2007 1:29 PM (GMT -7)   
hi Debaser, i totally understand where you are comimg from. I am also afraid to take medicines. I am suppose to be on lexapro and klonopin, but i just cant get my self to take them for i have fear of what they will do to me. always afraid of any side affects. i dont know what to do either. i hate to leave my house, and when i dare try to i end up with panic attacks, where ever i am at. Like last night i had to take my daughter out it was already 5:30 pm, and the thought of driving home in the dark and alone with a 7yr old scared me, because once before it happened to me while driving. well it happened again. i hate living in this fear, and not being able to do things on my own. my husband is usually with me but he was sick with the flu so he stayed home. I have tried klonopin before it does calm you down, but i dont like that feeling of drowsiness, i will take that in extreme emergency, that is if i cant calm my self down. the lexapro i am very afraid of. i dont know how it will react with me. like any other medicicnes or over the counter meds i will not take. i always feel like they will trigger an panic attack. I dont understand the statement"people refusing to get better" i dont like living like this. i hate it. but how do you get over the fear of trying to take the medication?how do you take that first step of actually putting that pill in your mouth and to know that you will be alright. that is the problem. you dont!!, and thats what freaks me out. I want to be better, i dont enjoy living like this at all!this is not enjoyable or addictive to me and it does not provide enery for me, it drains me, and make me non functionable. and what are the financial benefits of having this condition. i am not offended at all, but just trying to understand these concepts that the others made. i am wanting to get better so i can live a normal life. thanks everyone for listening and for support and advice. any inputs, or comments, i am listening. thanks...God Bless

debaser
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Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 1745
   Posted 3/10/2007 1:51 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks for the kind words, Victoria.

I don't feel that I'll ever be the type of person who will become part of a mental health system and thrive on that. It's not in my personality at all. For months I've resisted the very idea of therapy, to be honest. Reading Harry's post caused me to change that. While it's not in me to become dependent on a "system" it IS in me to sort of drop out from society all together. For all my life I've always been something of a loner, actually, and I have that tendency anyway. That's been what's happened over the last couple weeks, and it does have me concerned.

The problem with the pill, of course, is that there's this minute chance it could nauseate me. Nausea always causes me to get very anxious at the least, panicked at most. I guess my question becomes, is a .5 mg dose of clonazepam enough to make me not care if I'm nauseous if I do get that way? How powerful is it (concerning the mind)? When I had surgery I had hydrocodone for pain. It did nauseate me but the sedation was not nearly powerful enough to kill the anxiety. It turned me into a wreck. So the doctor then prescribed Darvocet, and it did exactly the same thing. After that I just gave up and went without pain meds completely. Not even ibuprofen. I chose intense pain over nausea and it wasn't exactly a difficult choice to make.

See, the only brain meds I've ever taken were SSRI's, and your brain doesn't really feel them working. So all of this is pretty new to me. I'm not sure how the clonazepam is going to effect the way I calm down.

Yeah, I think too much. I know it. I'm not OCD but I realize I'm obsessed with these stupid pills.

debaser
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Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 1745
   Posted 3/10/2007 1:59 PM (GMT -7)   
wannabbetter said...
hi Debaser, i totally understand where you are comimg from. I am also afraid to take medicines. I am suppose to be on lexapro and klonopin, but i just cant get my self to take them for i have fear of what they will do to me. always afraid of any side affects. i dont know what to do either. i hate to leave my house, and when i dare try to i end up with panic attacks, where ever i am at. Like last night i had to take my daughter out it was already 5:30 pm, and the thought of driving home in the dark and alone with a 7yr old scared me, because once before it happened to me while driving. well it happened again. i hate living in this fear, and not being able to do things on my own. my husband is usually with me but he was sick with the flu so he stayed home. I have tried klonopin before it does calm you down, but i dont like that feeling of drowsiness, i will take that in extreme emergency, that is if i cant calm my self down. the lexapro i am very afraid of. i dont know how it will react with me. like any other medicicnes or over the counter meds i will not take. i always feel like they will trigger an panic attack. I dont understand the statement"people refusing to get better" i dont like living like this. i hate it. but how do you get over the fear of trying to take the medication?how do you take that first step of actually putting that pill in your mouth and to know that you will be alright. that is the problem. you dont!!, and thats what freaks me out. I want to be better, i dont enjoy living like this at all!this is not enjoyable or addictive to me and it does not provide enery for me, it drains me, and make me non functionable. and what are the financial benefits of having this condition. i am not offended at all, but just trying to understand these concepts that the others made. i am wanting to get better so i can live a normal life. thanks everyone for listening and for support and advice. any inputs, or comments, i am listening. thanks...God Bless


Well, I'm not sure how to get over the fear of taking meds. That's why I'm getting into therapy. Hopefully I'll end up taking the pills before I actually get to the session, but in case I don't.... I realize it's a problem, and it's a problem that I need to overcome. It bothers me that I haven't been able to do it by myself, but I'm not going to let that stop me.

I think I do understand what it means to "refuse to get better". A lot of people are afraid to get better. My aunt has used her psychological problems as an excuse to go on Social Security Disability and drop out from society. It's part of the illness, and it doesn't necessarily mean that someone's JUST being stubborn. They're being stubborn but because of the illness.

At least that's what I think Harry meant.

Aussieangel
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Date Joined Sep 2006
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   Posted 3/10/2007 3:08 PM (GMT -7)   

I've discussed this topic (but about mental health in general) with my best friend who works in the medical field. She's been with me since I first got ill again and it's something she see's everyday. People getting hospital beds and free doctors who don't want the help and people like me who are begging for help because we want to get better and need a bit of support now and again get pushed aside.

There's a major shortage of public beds in Sydney and even being suicidial doesn't guarentee you'll get help. Yet she's seen others in beds that don't belong there. One young guy I was in hospital with was in there to increase his effexor from 37 to 75mg a starting dose and he said to me he was going to start play acting a bit as he liked it in hospital and didn't want to go to uni or work. mad  

I was like you're 20yrs old, you should want to be beating this illness while you've got no one responsible on you, get well and go and enjoy life. 


Howlyncat
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Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 24909
   Posted 3/10/2007 4:42 PM (GMT -7)   
That is so wrong and sad ppl taking advantage of hC system but it does happen all over the place I am sorry to say
YES Harry hit home I am sure with many peeps including how I was a couple of yrs ago
LYN
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 Never compromise your self nor your dignity... 
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janetlee
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Date Joined Mar 2006
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   Posted 3/10/2007 5:10 PM (GMT -7)   
As I read this thread, one thought came to my mind: Who really knows what makes a person the way he/she is? Sometimes there seems to be no concrete answer. Yes, I agree that a few people may actually want to be "sick", but I truly believe that in most cases, it's a lot more complicated than that. I can sit and psychoanalyze myself and others all day long, yet the more I know about myself or someone else, I'm still aware that in the end, no one really knows much at all! Sure, we can all figure out to a certain degree why a person may act a particular way or views something in a certain light, but even then there's so much more to it. I've been reading a book about an actress of the silent screen. She seemed almost agoraphobic towards the last years of her life. She's was a fascinating woman that seemed to mess up her own life. When she got very close to success, she'd flee. She died basically broke and alienated from her family and most of her friends. In her childhood, she was molested by a man. When she told her mother about it, her mother asked the child, "What did you do to that poor man?" It must've played a part in her view of things all thru her life, but other events molded her perceptions as well. So as with this example, can any of us truthfully say, with disdain, that a person wants to be sick? And if they do, is it necessarily because they're a lazy, good-for-nothing person? Can't it go deeper than what we are able to perceive or even understand? I'm sure that more than a few of us have been asked by a therapist "What do you get out of the anxiety?" I know that when I was asked that question, I got upset! So I was bringing it upon myself, was I? Could they actually believe that I wanted to be this way on purpose?!!? However, as time has passed, I have come to believe that deep within me, there's an unconscious reason for some of my panic and there must be actual benefits that it brings me. Some of the answers are not even unconscious anymore! Admittedly, I am relieved that I do not have to work a secular job, as I hate being "out there". Am I consciously glad about it though? NO or at least, not exactly. In exchange for my "freedom", I get a little over $600 a month in disability benefits. I've never married and have been living with my folks all my life (Dad died 9 years ago). Mom rules the roost pretty much completely. Sometimes I feel bitter about it. And I really don't get out of having to work secularly either, because I help Mom in her cleaning work. (I am NOT a paid employee by the way, so I am NOT scamming the gov't.) Anyhow, I do get something out of being the way I am. What do I get then? For the most part, I still don't know. I do know that I am glad to not have to deal with a lot of the stresses that most folks have to deal with on a regular basis. But if I'm subconsciously being anxy so I won't have to hold down a secular job, then I'm paying quite dearly for my "freedom". I've found that I can be glad, sad, mad, scared, and worried all at the same time. I ask myself:Why am I this way??? Am I then a bad person for not being what society generally expects? Can I help it? Is it all my own fault? Some may thus say YES, I suppose. But I say NO. Who to believe? Don't ask me, because I don't know. What I do know is that I'm doing the very best I can.
janet

Howlyncat
Elite Member


Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 24909
   Posted 3/10/2007 5:25 PM (GMT -7)   
I think thats what is basically meant hun for those doing all they can to get better .....
Wanting to get better at least thats what I got out of it I know I am doing my dangest too
I too would love to be at work BUT know I cannot so I deal with it
You have always tried IMO to better yourself ask questions and seek answers ..as do most others on here....
.How is you doing have not seen ya in a few
LUVS
LYN
    Contribute today to support Healing Well Forums...Donate @
 
 
 Never compromise your self nor your dignity... 
 Dream, Reach and Believe ......
 
 
          ** When You FEEL Anothers Pain You FEEL Humbled ** 
 
   
                             
 Co Mod @ Crohns                                     
 Moderator@ Alzheimer's 
 Moderator @ Anxiety/Panic
 
                                     LYN
                                  
                          
                                  


GFK
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 275
   Posted 3/10/2007 5:42 PM (GMT -7)   
I've never taken Klonopin, but I have taken xanax - many years ago and then just recently to be able to get on an airplane (I had problems flying even before A/P). Doc prescribed .5 mg, but I only took half a pill. I actually enjoyed the ride! And I didnt even miss the cigarettes for the 4 hours! I hear the K works in the same way, so you very well may NOT mind the nausia IF you get it. There were very few side effects listed for the xanax (unlike the paxil I also take!).

Good luck,
Karen

janetlee
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Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 1986
   Posted 3/10/2007 9:44 PM (GMT -7)   
Howlyncat said...
I think thats what is basically meant hun for those doing all they can to get better .....
Wanting to get better at least thats what I got out of it I know I am doing my dangest too
I too would love to be at work BUT know I cannot so I deal with it
You have always tried IMO to better yourself ask questions and seek answers ..as do most others on here....
.How is you doing have not seen ya in a few
LUVS
LYN

Hi Sweet Lyn!
I want to say that I wasn't questioning Harry's remarks. They're correct. I just wanted to let it be shown that even in cases like those he mentioned, it's still not necessarily a "choice" in the truest meaning of the word. People's life experiences can mold them in ways that even they themselves never recognize. Thus, even if a person stays "sick" or agoraphobic for the "wrong" reasons, who's to say that they're just being selfish or foolish? Now in some cases, maybe they ARE, but I think it's quite rare. Just my opinion of course.
I'm glad you missed me! LOL!!! Sometimes I just want to ignore the anxiety-issues (mine as well as others'!) and feel like I need a vacation from it, so to speak. If I'm being selfish...well, sometimes we all are and maybe deserve to be once in a while! tongue
As to how I'm doing...I've been doing fairly well. Not 100% but ANY percentage is better than where I was! When I start feeling anxy, I really do say to myself, "Come on anxiety! Make me feel worse! Can't you feel worse than this?" I learned that from Joe Barry's ebook . It does seem to really make a difference! I also keep in mind Dr. Weekes sage advice. And of course, I take my Paxil and supplements too.
I hope you are doing well yourself as I know you are one of the sweetest people on this board and THAT'S say a lot! yeah
Luv & Hugs!
janet
Yesterday's dead
Tomorrow's unknown
Today is here
And soon will be gone.
Use it wisely
Before it's too late
Remember to love
And forget to hate.
janet


Howlyncat
Elite Member


Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 24909
   Posted 3/11/2007 10:13 AM (GMT -7)   
Thanks so much sweetie
'Ya bringing tears to this emotional woman today
Tired out and doign all I can for dad but I am glad you are doing OK
Me too lol I am glad to see ya about but ys I do understand and know whayt it means to take a break for some time as well.......
LOL I tell the a/p go ahead do it see what ya think YOU can do to me ya know it is good to YELL at it and get out the feelings ya have inside IMHO
Take care of you
Post again when you are feeling like it
Luvs ya and again thanks
LYN
    Contribute today to support Healing Well Forums...Donate @
 
 
 Never compromise your self nor your dignity... 
 Dream, Reach and Believe ......
 
 
          ** When You FEEL Anothers Pain You FEEL Humbled ** 
 
   
                             
 Co Mod @ Crohns                                     
 Moderator@ Alzheimer's 
 Moderator @ Anxiety/Panic
 
                                     LYN
                                  
                          
                                  

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