The original version of this page can be found at : http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3858934
Posted By : WV Mike - 6/2/2017 12:25 PM
I just read in another thread that someone believes they transmitted lymes to their wife through sex. OMG tell me this is not possible. I would feel beyond terrible if I have given this to my wife. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. If so why no warnings from my doctors??? Should we be concerned? Should she see a doc or get tested? She doesn't have any symptoms.

Posted By : LmLyme - 6/2/2017 12:33 PM
I would say the majority of people on this forum will agree that it is sexually transmitted. I believe that it can be, and Stephen Buhner, author of "Healing Lyme" says it can be. He even says it could be transmitted thru saliva. If it is structurally made up like Syphilis, and the Lyme bacteria is present in the blood, it sure does make sense to me that it could be transmitted that way.

Posted By : Pirouette - 6/2/2017 12:46 PM
I'm so sorry Mike but yes, it is very possible to transmit sexually. I wouldn't panic over this - but it is something to know. I also believe that most people have the Lyme microbe in our bodies but most people also don't develop Lyme disease from it.

Here is some info from two studies that were done but there is a lot of anecdotal evidence out there, too.

The medical community is horribly, criminally mis- and dis-informed about Lyme and transmission both by design and out of fear and ignorance. Conversations like this is how we're changing the landscape.

If your wife hasn't expressed symptoms, then she probably doesn't need to be treating at the moment. But you may be interested in getting her tested some day. Is she healthy, otherwise?

Transmission studies (I included congenital & breast milk in case you also have children):

Sexual
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3855185

Congenital & Breast Milk
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3855191

-p

Post Edited (Pirouette) : 6/2/2017 1:46:46 PM (GMT-6)


Posted By : Rikky1 - 6/2/2017 1:38 PM
can syphilis which is a bacteria be sexually transmitted? yup so why couldn't lyme? its unbelievable that the mainstream medical community thinks this is unknown or say there's no solid evidence at this time. actually its not unbelievable since they don't believe that chronic lyme even exists.

i gave it to my wife and i don't think the symptoms showed up for about 6 months when she got major stress from her job at the time then all hell broke loose and she's been ill almost a year. hard to say exactly when she got it but the timelines of me being sick then her correlate fairly well.

my wife before lyme was healthy as a horse. never a cold, never on medication, when she got sick she bounced back in half the time of others. lyme has literally destroyed all that. that's how disabling this disease can be.

i would take this very seriously and think about introducing protection.

Posted By : abenamou - 6/2/2017 1:58 PM
Remember when the CDC said Zika couldn't be sexually transmitted, until it was. Don't believe anything doctors or the CDC says. In fact I'd trust this guy more:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3357784/Can-billionaire-John-Caudwell-s-bombshell-theory-right-Phone-tycoon-reveals-ELEVEN-family-crippling-Lyme-disease-believes-s-passed-people-NOT-ticks.html

Posted By : PeteZa - 6/2/2017 2:10 PM
We don't know how my husband got lyme. Either from me or out in the back yard. We saw no bull's eye rash, and no ticks. He did have what he thought was a mosquito bite.

He got lyme 8 months after I was healed. He is still treating and is almost all well, thank the Lord.

He knew lyme symptoms because of me and we really jumped on his lyme more quickly with treatment because of the familiarity.
____________

Good Article

Posted By : mm57553 - 6/2/2017 3:00 PM
The jury's still out on this, and more research definitely needs to be done. Dr. H (the Lyme guru) says that the chances of it being transmitted sexually are slim to none. Yes, Lyme spirochetes can be found in semen and vaginal secretions, but he says the numbers are so low, and the environment so unfavorable, that the chances of being infected that way are very slim. So, theoretically it's possible. But Dr. H pointed out that theoretically, mosquitoes should be able to transmit HIV, but we know they don't.

Posted By : Pirouette - 6/2/2017 3:09 PM
Hi mm57553 -

Yes Dr H suggests the chances of sexual transmission are "slim to none" but most LLMDs disagree with him. Imagine the "numbers" that could be found in the saliva gland of a tick... and the fluids found in the vaginal cavity or semen sample. I'm not sure why he promotes this rather than caution to be careful.

-p
Lyme Moderator
Chronic late-stage lyme—likely infected in '00; Clinically dx Mar'14 w/ Babs, Fry Labs+ Bart-like, CDC+ Bb. First treated 4-5 viruses & GI/immune. Herbal antimicrobials in May; IV port-started Rocephin in Nov; added vancomycin Mar'16;
DETOX: Pinella/Burbur/Parsley/Milk thistle/Burdock/Red root; Samento/Banderol/Enula; JK/Turmeric; BFM-1; antifung; many many supps; cholestyramine!

Posted By : Girlie - 6/2/2017 3:24 PM
I didn't know that Dr. H believes that.

I'm pretty sure Dr. J. believes it's likely to be sexually transmitted. (Don't have anything to back it up...just my memory...)
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Posted By : mm57553 - 6/2/2017 3:54 PM
Pirouette said...
Hi mm57553 -

Yes Dr H suggests the chances of sexual transmission are "slim to none" but most LLMDs disagree with him. Imagine the "numbers" that could be found in the saliva gland of a tick... and the fluids found in the vaginal cavity or semen sample. I'm not sure why he promotes this rather than caution to be careful.

-p


I think the difference is that when transmitted from a tick, the bacteria is injected directly into your bloodstream, where it travels quickly to every part of your body, many of which make great breeding grounds. That doesn't happen during sexual activity. So any bacteria is sort of confined to one area, and that area is not a favorable one for borrelia to thrive in. So between the very low numbers and the unfavorable environment, the chances of the bacteria being transmitted that way and surviving are very slim. At least that's the way I remember Dr. H explaining it in a podcast recently.

But I think it is definitely an unknown that needs a whole lot more research.

Posted By : WV Mike - 6/2/2017 3:58 PM
OMG I feel terrible! The medical community keeps letting me down over and over. If she gets it from me I don't think I can live with that. Yes she is otherwise healthy except for reynauds syndrome which she has had for many years. I will be watching her closely now and will use protection just to be on the safe side.

Post Edited (WV Mike) : 6/2/2017 4:02:27 PM (GMT-6)


Posted By : Psilociraptor - 6/2/2017 4:23 PM
Honestly theres no proof either way. Just because Lyme is related to syphilis (despite being related they are fairly evolutionarily removed) doesn't mean it is an effective STD. Having a corkscrew shape does not guarantee sexual transmission. It's all about how the pathogen has adapted to manipulate host defenses during disease initiation and Lyme has a long evolutionary history with tick saliva helping it enter the host where as syphilis has specialized in human to human transmission. Of course this is just generalizations. This is what doctors like to parrot but that doesn't mean it can't go through other means, especially if some level of immune suppression occurs. Many bacteria are opportunistic and Lyme could certainly fall into that category if given the right context. It has been found in genital secretions. One of it's most ancient modes of transmission is through urine->grazing animal. So it's definitely active down there. And the study that found it in genital secretions also found examples where husband and wife had identical strains suggesting, but not proving, transmission. It could be that they got it because they lived in the same region. Who knows. But my advice is be seriously careful. I refuse to not use protection with my partner. I don't care if it's a 1% chance of transmission. Over the long haul 1% with the same partner is a near guarantee. And the disease is just too serious for me to be able to consciously gamble with. We did have unprotected sex a few times before i knew it was Lyme. Nothing happened. But that doesn't mean it wont

Posted By : Milocat - 6/2/2017 4:29 PM
I was struggling with this same question around the time I suspected lyme but was still undiagnosed. (I had 3 doctors tell me I couldn't have lyme and all 3 said even if I did, it wasn't sexually transmitted.)
I unfortunately passed lyme (along with some co-infections) to my girlfriend. She started showing symptoms about 3-4 months after I did. She was able to catch it much earlier than me and got tested/treated right away. She was able to keep working at her job and her symptoms were not as extreme as in my case.
Have your wife be on the lookout for any new or weird symptoms!

Posted By : bluelyme - 6/2/2017 6:03 PM
Yep my partner has spirochetes in blood with minor symptoms .also my mother has contracted from her husband . Docs are really clueless and its political ...watch under our skin and under the 8 ball documentarys to understand why

also imo the Renauds is just describing a lack of circulation in hands and feet which maybbe caused by lyme and or bartonella .the stings may help her too. She may have traded some pathogens to you too..

Post Edited (bluelyme) : 6/2/2017 6:10:32 PM (GMT-6)


Posted By : goshawk - 6/2/2017 6:22 PM
Hi WVMike,,
Something your wife can do is build her immune system, if her immune system is strong she has the best chance of not having any issues.

Have her keep a diary/journal if any symptoms appear even if they seem insignificant at the time. If she does get symptoms start treatment asap.

These are just some ways for you to have some control over this situation and above all...if she does get ill, it's not your fault. How could you or any of us known this until we got Lyme and started searching for answers.

Keep asking questions, keep reading and researching. We can arm ourselves with knowledge and hopefully help others along the way.

Take care, sincerely, Jo

Posted By : Rikky1 - 6/2/2017 7:17 PM
Dr. J told me personally lyme and many of the co-infections can be transmitted sexually.

Posted By : bluelyme - 6/2/2017 8:51 PM
There is good evidence it can be spread mother to child transplacentally or in breast milk too.how old is your son mike?

Posted By : gfields - 6/2/2017 9:12 PM
If you know you have lyme disease, is it unethical to get a new girlfriend or boyfriend? Isn't that the same thing as having sex with someone if you have AIDs or HIV?

I've read that not only is it transmittable by sex, but it can be transmitted through breathing in dehydrated spirochetes. So a bodily fluid that is dried and then inhaled can transmit the disease. There apparently government studies on this, and they found that this is possible.

Posted By : WV Mike - 6/2/2017 10:44 PM
Blue my son is 21 and my daughter is 17. Wife has been dealing with renauds for at least 12 years. Son is the healthiest person I know. Almost never gets sick and when he does he's over it in a day or two.

Posted By : 10LymeB - 6/2/2017 11:35 PM
My husband tested for Lyme - I believe he did the Igenex test - and came back that he'd been "exposed" to Lyme but that it wasn't any kind of concern. He has no symptoms at all. Whether he got it from me or at the same time on the same trip in Paris...who knows? The doctor seemed to indicate the jury's out. I am concerned for him, but I figure we just play it by ear and keep him healthy in the meantime ;)
*42 yo - Treatment started Nov. 2016 - Bitten by mosquito in Paris 2013
* SIBO (improved) - Candida - Lyme - Babesia - Bartonella - Hashimoto's - EBV - HHV6 - Tinea Versicolor - IBS
* Mostly herbal treatment, Bryon White

Posted By : mm57553 - 6/3/2017 7:38 AM
10LymeB said...
My husband tested for Lyme - I believe he did the Igenex test - and came back that he'd been "exposed" to Lyme but that it wasn't any kind of concern. He has no symptoms at all. Whether he got it from me or at the same time on the same trip in Paris...who knows? The doctor seemed to indicate the jury's out. I am concerned for him, but I figure we just play it by ear and keep him healthy in the meantime ;)


There are a lot of doctor's who believe that most people, as many as 90% in endemic areas, have been exposed. Kind of like Epstein Barr. I think 94% of the population will test as being exposed to Epstein Barr, but most of those people will never have been diagnosed with mono and are not sick.

So there are probably millions of people walking around who have been exposed to or even had Lyme, but for some reason never got sick. I think it really all boils down to the immune system and it's ability to keep these infections at bay or fight them back naturally.

I have a relative who remembers being bitten as a kid (we're from PA, so we were all bitten as kids). She distinctly remembers getting a bullseye rash because her mom took her to the doctor. They never did anything to treat it, and it went away. She never got sick. She's now in her 50s, still never been sick a day in her life, and lives a perfectly normal existence. No special diet or anything. She's not a health nut. She has 2 perfectly healthy adult children.

My point is most of our spouses / partners have probably been exposed long before they met us. I think when both spouses get sick, it is most likely triggered by an environmental factor (mold, metals, etc.), since they both live in the same environment.

Posted By : Traveler - 6/3/2017 8:04 AM
WVMike - have your wife start on astragalus - it should protect her from getting Lyme from any source. Have her start with 1,000 mgs a day in divided doses. If she has any response at all (and I'd suggest she do this anyway since we are coming into the height of tick season) have her slowly move up to 3,000 mgs daily.

The facts are there to support that Lyme is sexually transmitted as well - as someone else said, it's been proven beyond a doubt that it's cousin spirochete, Syphilis, is sexually transmitted. I've read that the Lyme bacteria isn't quite as virulent when sexually transmitted (it doesn't happen always), but that the chances are high enough that anyone that we are having sex with should be protected - because, seriously, we are wishing it on them otherwise if we know and are not doing anything.

Assuming otherwise is burying our heads in the sand, just as IDSA does about their treatments and other aspects of this disease. We need to protect those around us - this is no different than doing tick checks on those we care about daily.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15 - unknowingly had Asymptomatic Babs and Asymptomatic Bart, being treated now though (2/2016)

Posted By : PeteZa - 6/3/2017 8:38 AM
I am not sure about taking astragalus by someone with raynaud's disease. You should check that out. Raynaud's can be an autoimmune disease (my uncle has it).

Please check with her doctor and also do some of your own research.

Here is the doc that I like to listen to -- Read the section called other safety concerns.

/www.drweil.com/vitamins-supplements-herbs/herbs/astragalus/
____________

Good Article

Posted By : bluelyme - 6/3/2017 1:32 PM
gfields said...
If you know you have lyme disease, is it unethical to get a new girlfriend or boyfriend? Isn't that the same thing as having sex with someone if you have AIDs or HIV?

I've read that not only is it transmittable by sex, but it can be transmitted through breathing in dehydrated spirochetes. So a bodily fluid that is dried and then inhaled can transmit the disease. There apparently government studies on this, and they found that this is possible.


i tried to tell a few partners i have lyme they seemed unconcerned .i think about how many "cigarettes" and straws" i shared with 100s of people in my rock days it breaks my heart . Even closest friends that have weird symptoms are just like its just ibs and hypoglycemia, or its just r.a. or its just reynauds ..but never go digging for the cause ...likely pathogenic ..

mike is your wife on immunosuppressive drugs or plaquinil ?

Posted By : WV Mike - 6/3/2017 2:19 PM
No she doesn't take anything. Pretty healthy. Only thing doc at Cleveland clinic told us was to move to a warmer climate or keep her out of the cold. Only bothers her in the winter. She just pretty much hibernates.

Posted By : Pirouette - 6/3/2017 4:25 PM
gfields said...
If you know you have lyme disease, is it unethical to get a new girlfriend or boyfriend? Isn't that the same thing as having sex with someone if you have AIDs or HIV?

I've read that not only is it transmittable by sex, but it can be transmitted through breathing in dehydrated spirochetes. So a bodily fluid that is dried and then inhaled can transmit the disease. There apparently government studies on this, and they found that this is possible.
Please post links if you can! Very interesting...

-p

Posted By : Pirouette - 6/3/2017 4:29 PM
mm57553 said...
There are a lot of doctor's who believe that most people, as many as 90% in endemic areas, have been exposed. Kind of like Epstein Barr. I think 94% of the population will test as being exposed to Epstein Barr, but most of those people will never have been diagnosed with mono and are not sick.
I completely agree (with the remainder of your post too, but wanted to highlight this piece, particularly). IMO, the bioengineering of "modern Lyme" has made this wholly indeterminable so it's become a crap shoot.

I think the moral to this story is... just don't get sick.

-p

Posted By : Moodylyme - 7/20/2017 1:40 AM
Ok so because of this topic I had to create an account. I am a 26 year old male. 7/4/15 I developed a myriad of symptoms and checked into a hospital. Plenty of tests run, "as healthy as can be." You all know the story. All they wanted to prescribe was benzo's for anxiety. I was the happiest person prior to this disease. Anyways I continued on with my life, I have self-treated with so many herbs and supplements and I can say I have made a massive difference without even knowing what I was fighting (perceived parasites) but this post is not about my recovery. It is about SEXUAL TRANSMISSION.

Believing that whatever symptoms I had were not contagious (never any signs of sexual disease EVER), I have slept with a few girls over the past 6-8 months. With three of those girls I did not use protection. It is so unfortunate to say that ALL three of them developed my exact symptoms, I found out today. My current girlfriend developed symptoms last week leading me to ask these other girls. I went to my doctor demanded a test and tested positivefor Lyme, babs and Bart. I have never been bitten by a tick. I believe I contracted it sexually, as well. It may not be scientifically recognized but I swear to you Lyme is sexually transmitted. Yes, we should treat it as though it is herpes or HIV because you can drastically alter another persons life for a couple hours of lust.

Posted By : mrdude - 7/20/2017 2:14 AM
Bluelyme - can you tell me more about plaquenil? My LLMD prescribed this and I am taking it with some other stuff. I can't tell if I'm herxing or not but I'm experiencing lots of symptoms that I only experienced when I was at my worst (soreness, muscle fatigue, circulation feels crappy).

Posted By : mrdude - 7/20/2017 2:16 AM
Moodylyme - is there a way I can contact you directly? My girlfriend has a lot of similar symptoms to me and I'm not sure how to deal with it.

Posted By : bluelyme - 7/20/2017 2:46 AM
mr dude- plaquinil is a fav among rhuemys because it has a very long have life ,probable slight immunosuppressive , most ai stuff root cause is protozoan in nature imo..it replaced quinacrine as the drug of choice back in the day for malaria..
it suppresses the growth of babs , fl1953, giardia and toxoplasmosis and malaria but rarely eradicates . llmds like it because it stops the efflux pump to some bacteria and makes intercellular penetration of other abx more effective . eye checks must be done before and during prolonged therapy as it can effect them adversely . again has a 3 week half life or something and builds quite a bit . i chose alinia , artmesia, 3x a week rife and bvt instead. took care of babs in about 3 months

back on topic i see partners of lyme infected persons with spirochetes all the time . mine included . very much a std

Posted By : Moodylyme - 7/20/2017 10:21 AM
MR DUDE you can click the email button under my name to send me a direct message.
Lyme disease is SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED. I transmitted it on three seperate occasions before being tested for Lyme because of these transmissions. It is despicable the cover-up surrounding this disease that will one day cripple our nation.

Posted By : hollsya - 7/20/2017 11:15 AM
So lyme can be transmitted sexually, but can it be transmitted through saliva? Like by kissing someone?

Posted By : Girlie - 7/20/2017 11:24 AM
hollsya said...
So lyme can be transmitted sexually, but can it be transmitted through saliva? Like by kissing someone?


That is the question.

Personally, I don't think so. It could just be passed on via blood but not saliva. So, if there are sores in the mouth of the person with it...and the person they're kissing...then I'm thinking it's more probable it can happen.

But there are people who do believe it's passed on via saliva.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Posted By : bluelyme - 7/20/2017 11:54 AM
On saliva ..i think yes..peteza hubby may agree...other spirochetes exist in the mouth why not borrelia ...anecdotally some one caught it from a tear of a infected person ...so why not spit ..imo .a huge percent of people already have borrelia ,like if every one doesnt they will...

Posted By : Girlie - 7/20/2017 12:22 PM
bluelyme said...
On saliva ..i think yes..peteza hubby may agree...other spirochetes exist in the mouth why not borrelia ...anecdotally some one caught it from a tear of a infected person ...so why not spit ..imo .a huge percent of people already have borrelia ,like if every one doesnt they will...


But does the spirochetes in the mouth always translate into passing on infection?

Could it not be the same as Syphillis (spirochetal) - where it's there in the mouth, but only passes on if there are open sores in the mouth (i.e. blood) ?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Posted By : Pirouette - 7/20/2017 1:07 PM
Moodylyme -

Welcome to the forum. I'm REALLY sorry you're here but very glad you decided to post and share your story. I hope the site is useful to you. These members are not only very educated but supportive.

Please read the "New to Lyme?" thread at the top of the page for more information on Lyme & Co and don't hesitate to ask any questions. Let us know if you need help finding an LLMD.

Moodylyme AND mrdude--
Regarding the sexual transmission issue - please also keep in mind that MOST people who contract Lyme can also pick up other coinfections. Now, some will assert this is more probable through tick bites but of course, nothing has been effectively studied.

I am so grateful for people like you and others here who are talking about this issue - the lack of appropriate studies, acknowledgement in the scientific/medical community and CERTAINLY CDC and IDSA, and the DISinformation they continue to promote, sexual transmission of Lyme & Co is one of the MAIN reasons for the current epidemic we face today.

This (they) must be stopped. Please share this forum and other information as best you can.

-p

Posted By : bluelyme - 7/20/2017 4:05 PM
Girlie ...setup a kissing booth for every id doc in america and canada and i will personally pucker up and wet my whistle ...lol

you dont need a cold sore open to get herpes...

Posted By : Girlie - 7/20/2017 7:03 PM
bluelyme said...
Girlie ...setup a kissing booth for every id doc in america and canada and i will personally pucker up and wet my whistle ...lol

you dont need a cold sore open to get herpes...



blue- you make me laugh. tongue
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Posted By : Moodylyme - 7/21/2017 12:11 AM
Piroutte-

Thank you for the kind introduction. I apologize for being so late to reply. I absolutely positively agree with you that the CDC and others are either ignorantly or purposefully allowing this problem to become greater year after year.

Excuse me expressing myself for a moment. During the two years before diagnoses I went to different doctors a number of times and ALWAYS left with the feeling deep down that something so much bigger than me was going on.. And it always felt sooo shady. Now I go to sleep at night feeling as if I know that is absolutely undeniably true.

To anyone who is currently dealing with Lyme or any chronic disease my heart goes out to you. I also challenge you to take it upon yourself to heal yourself. Unless you find a doctor who has compassion and brains, you're wasting your money imho. Good luck to all and my email is open to anyone who needs a shoulder. We're all family now bonded together by something that has altered each of our lives. Crazy stuff but it's a crazy world. Much love.
Lyme disease is SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED. I transmitted it on three seperate occasions before being tested for Lyme because of these transmissions. It is despicable the cover-up surrounding this disease that will one day cripple our nation.

Posted By : Girlie - 7/21/2017 12:20 AM
Moodylyme said...
Piroutte-

Thank you for the kind introduction. I apologize for being so late to reply. I absolutely positively agree with you that the CDC and others are either ignorantly or purposefully allowing this problem to become greater year after year.

Excuse me expressing myself for a moment. During the two years before diagnoses I went to different doctors a number of times and ALWAYS left with the feeling deep down that something so much bigger than me was going on.. And it always felt sooo shady. Now I go to sleep at night feeling as if I know that is absolutely undeniably true.

To anyone who is currently dealing with Lyme or any chronic disease my heart goes out to you. I also challenge you to take it upon yourself to heal yourself. Unless you find a doctor who has compassion and brains, you're wasting your money imho. Good luck to all and my email is open to anyone who needs a shoulder. We're all family now bonded together by something that has altered each of our lives. Crazy stuff but it's a crazy world. Much love.


There are a lot of good LLMD's that heal many. This is why it's important to see someone who is indeed Lyme Literate. Most 'regular' Dr.'s don't have a clue on how to treat LD.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Posted By : Moodylyme - 7/21/2017 12:54 AM
You're correct girlie. I should have been a tad more specific. Also, who's to say that your normal doctor won't refer you to someone who is Lyme literate. I guess from my experience I hold a bit of a grudge against doctors. I made so much more progress not even knowing what I was treating than they ever did in my case haha.
Lyme disease is SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED. I transmitted it on three seperate occasions before being tested for Lyme because of these transmissions. It is despicable the cover-up surrounding this disease that will one day cripple our nation.

Posted By : Girlie - 7/21/2017 12:58 AM
and then there's my regular Dr. who is very supportive.

During the 15 months pre-diagnosis...she did try to figure out what was wrong with me...weekly lab work...specialists...she did do the Canadian lyme test...but I was negative.
She just didn't know any better.

She is very supportive now that I am in long-term treatment with a ND.

..and when someone walks into her office with a bite and they think it was a tick that bit them, she offers them a course of antibiotics.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Posted By : newuser22 - 7/21/2017 1:31 AM
After reading Moodylyme's story, I am seriously concerned. This is a big blow to the future.

What happens if Lyme and coinfections are "healed"? It is difficult to totally eradicate these bugs. But if someone is in remission then is that safe?

I totally aim for completely eradicating these bugs. It is foolish to leave the enemy behind alive. It will come back in future, after 5 10 20 years, waiting for the right time, weak immune and some stress to trigger it. Is total eradication possible?

Lyme is mini AIDS.

Posted By : Moodylyme - 7/21/2017 1:42 AM
I wish I had a more definitive answer for you newuser22. Granted when I transmitted Lyme I had not taken any antibiotics only herbs and supplements. While my symptoms had greatly reduced, it is obvious now that I was very much contagious.

I will say she started having pain during sex and has had vaginal discharges lately. Obviously this has shaken up our lives immensely. From as healthy of a sex life as any couple in America to many unanswered questions. I will be sure to keep you up to date as we have both started on antibiotics.
Lyme disease is SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED. I transmitted it on three seperate occasions before being tested for Lyme because of these transmissions. It is despicable the cover-up surrounding this disease that will one day cripple our nation.

Posted By : Girlie - 7/21/2017 11:33 AM
newuser22 said...
After reading Moodylyme's story, I am seriously concerned. This is a big blow to the future.

What happens if Lyme and coinfections are "healed"? It is difficult to totally eradicate these bugs. But if someone is in remission then is that safe?

I totally aim for completely eradicating these bugs. It is foolish to leave the enemy behind alive. It will come back in future, after 5 10 20 years, waiting for the right time, weak immune and some stress to trigger it. Is total eradication possible?

Lyme is mini AIDS.


Many LLMD's call it 'remission' not cured...because it is thought that our immune system is dealing with them...but they're not totally gone.

i know several people (in my location) who have been in remission for years...and their lives have gone on without having to worry about a relapse. Three of them just moved on...and believe they are 'cured' so don't really pay attention to keeping their immune system strong. I hope they don't relapse. A fourth one is a teenager and caught it quite early on but undertreated with a week of abx. That was a year ago...so far everything is good. I am worried about that one.
Another one has been in remission for over a year now...and she is very conscious of staying healthy - fairly strict diet now, reducing stress in her life...etc.

I'm still working on getting this disease into remission.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Posted By : Pirouette - 7/21/2017 3:49 PM
bluelyme said...
Girlie ...setup a kissing booth for every id doc in america and canada and i will personally pucker up and wet my whistle ...lol

you dont need a cold sore open to get herpes...
wheeeeeeee

Posted By : WV Mike - 7/22/2017 6:12 AM
Its kind of crazy this thread revived when it did. My wife has started tp get night sweats and headaches shocked ! We went to her pcp wednesdsy to tell her what was going on. Told her we wanted a lymes test for my wife so she ordered it. Results should be back thursday or friday. I'll let you guys know what we find out. I hope she doesn't have to go through all of this. I still can't believe out of all the docs i saw not one of them mentioned the possibility of sexual transmission. mad

Posted By : Girlie - 7/22/2017 10:25 AM
Mike - is it an Igenex WB test?
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Posted By : newuser22 - 7/22/2017 4:48 PM
Girlie said...
newuser22 said...
After reading Moodylyme's story, I am seriously concerned. This is a big blow to the future.

What happens if Lyme and coinfections are "healed"? It is difficult to totally eradicate these bugs. But if someone is in remission then is that safe?

I totally aim for completely eradicating these bugs. It is foolish to leave the enemy behind alive. It will come back in future, after 5 10 20 years, waiting for the right time, weak immune and some stress to trigger it. Is total eradication possible?

Lyme is mini AIDS.


Many LLMD's call it 'remission' not cured...because it is thought that our immune system is dealing with them...but they're not totally gone.

i know several people (in my location) who have been in remission for years...and their lives have gone on without having to worry about a relapse. Three of them just moved on...and believe they are 'cured' so don't really pay attention to keeping their immune system strong. I hope they don't relapse. A fourth one is a teenager and caught it quite early on but undertreated with a week of abx. That was a year ago...so far everything is good. I am worried about that one.
Another one has been in remission for over a year now...and she is very conscious of staying healthy - fairly strict diet now, reducing stress in her life...etc.

I'm still working on getting this disease into remission.


What protocol did these three use? How long did it take?
Can these WB bot Igenex, DNA connexion etc tests can be used for eradication verification? ART/energetic testing can help a bit.

I just don't think it is smart to keep any of these infections alive in the body. These really are billion-year-old predators, who survive with manipulation and deception.

They have no legit reason to be in the body, not in any count, not 1, not 1 million. Good bacteria and harmless bugs don't manipulate and deceive; they help, modulate immune etc.
Leaving behind any bug means leaving back door open for major sickness when in future there is some stressor.
Leaving them behind means possibly spread them in the family, small chance of spreading to wife husband, kids.
They can cause cancer and other diseases, even in small number hiding in some corner they can mess with the DNA and cells and produce cancer.
These bugs adapt to treatment, abx, herbs, today they will keep their head down, and after 10 years they will rebel with greater force when the time is right for them.

It is a predatory game, can't leave the enemy alive, can't slack.

I am still at the beginning of my Lyme war since I discovered it last month, waiting for more tests results to come back. I need a clear idea of the threat landscape, and then carefully design strategy for each of their strengths and weaknesses.

Posted By : Girlie - 7/22/2017 5:06 PM
Person #1 - used a version of the Marshall protocol along with diet changes - mainly minocycline - I believe it took him about 3 years

Person #2 - was treated with antibiotics for about 6 months - she started treating about 6-8 months after symptoms started (can't remember exactly) Protocol I believe was doxycycline and azithromycin (only!!)

Person #3 - Caught it quite early on - within a few months - and I was told she did two 'rounds' of antibiotics. The person who passes this info to me didn't know which ones.

No, testing can't be relied on to tell us if we're in remission.

The WB only shows if we're producing antibodies. A negative doesn't mean we don't still have it.

A PCR shows the dna of the bacteria in the sample. But a negative means that in that particular sample - there wasn't any dna. It could be that you have it - just not in that relatively small blood sample.

I know another lady - in her mid 60's that treated for 3 years (or 3 1/2 ?) and she has been in remission for over a year now..and is on a pretty strict diet...no relapse yet.

There are also lots of success stories with forum members. The ones I mentioned are people in my geographical location.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

Posted By : WV Mike - 7/23/2017 3:34 PM
Girlie said...
Mike - is it an Igenex WB test?


To be honest girlie i don't know. My wife wouldn't let me go back with her and she didn't ask. I wanted to go back to ensure she got tested but my wife was afraid i would embarrass her because i told her we weren't leaving there without orders for a lymes test no matter what. I feel guilty. She's lying down now with a headache, sweaty, and dizzy. I had her start my doxycyline just in case to get a head start on it until we get some results.

Post Edited (WV Mike) : 7/23/2017 3:49:29 PM (GMT-6)


Posted By : Girlie - 7/23/2017 4:24 PM
WV Mike said...
Girlie said...
Mike - is it an Igenex WB test?


To be honest girlie i don't know. My wife wouldn't let me go back with her and she didn't ask. I wanted to go back to ensure she got tested but my wife was afraid i would embarrass her because i told her we weren't leaving there without orders for a lymes test no matter what. I feel guilty. She's lying down now with a headache, sweaty, and dizzy. I had her start my doxycyline just in case to get a head start on it until we get some results.


Aww, so sorry Mike. You're just wanting to help her...

But, she's probably not in any mood to here/see anything confrontational...I get it.
Moderator, Lyme Forum
Symp started April/2013; Buhner's Lyme May 15-July24/14; Igenex pos. July 3/14
Doxy: July 4-Aug.24/14;Zithro July26-Aug24/14; Amox + Proben. Aug. 29/14;
added biaxin Sept. 26/14
Disc. amox,added Ceftin Nov. 20th.;
Disc. biaxin added Buhner bart herbs Dec/14;Jan/15 pulsing Tinda (w/ Ceftin);
Abx/herb break Apr-July/15; July-mino; Aug. added Rif;
Nov./15 mino - to biaxi

©1996-2017 HealingWell.com LLC  All rights reserved.

Advertise | Privacy Policy & Disclaimer