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Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
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sparker
Regular Member
Joined : Oct 2006
Posts : 114
Posted 1/9/2007 2:48 PM (GMT -7)
I really admire people who have this fatigue and are able to maintain a normal lifestyle or even maintain a full time job working 40 hours a week. I actually felt alright this morning and was doing good through the day - and now in the last hour I've suddenly felt like I haven't slept in a week.

I'm unable to focus or concentrate. I'm sitting here but not really thinking. I'm not going to make it another hour before I'm going to need to get up and go home to take a nap.

I need to go to the grocery store - but I keep putting it off. It's hard when you're trying to work up the energy to just go to the grocery store. I could use some positive prayers for my new doctor appointment tomorrow morning - I hope he's helpful and we can make ANY progress whatsoever.
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Orion82698
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Joined : Mar 2006
Posts : 423
Posted 1/9/2007 3:32 PM (GMT -7)
I don't know how I do it.  I work on avarage 40-45 hours a week.  Clean the house on the weekends, grocery shop, and spend time with my wife/friends.  It's so hard.  I have to sometimes forget about this, so I can live... somewhat.  However, it's always there, reminding me of how I truely feel. 

Luckly, I don't have brain fog.  I'm able to stay on my feet with trouble shooting things @ work, so that's a + with me.

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sparker
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Posts : 114
Posted 1/10/2007 12:44 PM (GMT -7)
Well, had the appointment with the new doctor this morning. I asked him why he specialized in chronic fatigue and these mystery ailments and he said he liked the challenge of it as well as taking on cases where most physicians these days walk away.

It was expensive. He reviewed all my other blood tests and the online saliva test and then wanted to have some additional tests. First, he noted that the endo didn't perform a T3 free test, he only did a full T3 - so we don't know if I'm converting T4 to T3 properly. Second, he wanted to know my blood type - which I didn't know. Third, he is having a electron microscopy test done on cells that are pulled from under the tongue. Lastly, a stool sample test to see what cultures are happening in my system.

He prescribed Fluconazole for a short period to rule out any yeast and stuff in my stomach. He wants me to follow a strict Candida diet for at least 2 weeks to see how that goes. Mainly, I'm already doing a pretty good diet, but I've not eliminated milk and other dairy products completely, which I'll do now.

I'm set to meet him in a month again. At that time, he'll take action based on the results from the blood tests, Fluconazole and the diet. He said we could do some adrenal support if it looks like that's what I need, like Cortisol and whatever else. He also said to continue the Vitamin D, Korean Ginseng and Magnesium.

The cost of all this was $723.23 that I'll likely not be reimbursed for through insurance. Payment due at the appointment time. Unfortunately my car insurance bill came up this month too... so I'm HURTING for money now.
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sparker
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Joined : Oct 2006
Posts : 114
Posted 1/15/2007 11:21 AM (GMT -7)
Well, got the T3 Free test results back. The range for normal is 230-420 and I was measured at 292. The doctor indicated that depending on the other tests and the results of my diet - he may try treating for a low T3 dose since I'm close to the low end of the scale.

That's refreshing to hear for once. Someone who doesn't say "It's in the normal range." and then walk away.

The only other test to come back so far was the blood type, which was A+.
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Orion82698
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Posts : 423
Posted 1/15/2007 12:49 PM (GMT -7)
That's great, and that should be done.

I would also ask for him just to try a low does of hydrocortisone as well.

Who knows :)
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Orion82698
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Joined : Mar 2006
Posts : 423
Posted 1/23/2007 2:13 PM (GMT -7)

Sparker,

  Something that kinda hit me, and I checked your lab work to see...  your last doctor didn't test your Testosterone.  There was a test that I was reading about stating that over 50,000 million men suffer from this.  How is your libido?  Do you grow facial hair easily?  Do you find yourself having hot flashes/night sweats?  How about axiety? 

I would have your new doc to a fasting blood draw of testosterone.  I noticed your LH and FSH looked fine and that's good from a hypothalamus/pituitary part, but definitly get that testosterone checked.  Mine was done, and I'm very low for my age.  My new endo saw this and wanted to test it again, but this time fasting to see what's going on.  Low testosterone could give us the fatigue we're feeling.

Take care!

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sparker
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Joined : Oct 2006
Posts : 114
Posted 2/12/2007 3:06 PM (GMT -7)
Well, got back from the doctor just now.

My stool tests came back fine for the most part. There was no evidence of fungi so I'm not really a candidate for candida. No ova or parasites, nor giardia or cryptosporidium. My cellular tests showed I'm pretty low on magnesium.

So, based on that and the lack of positive results from the change in diet and the fluconozale, he prescribed me Cortef and Magnesium shots. I had my first magnesium shot at the clinic, the rest I'll give myself over the next couple weeks.

The pharmacy had to order the Cortef and magnesium and syringes so I won't start everything until tomorrow afternoon. If I get some response from the Cortef in 2 weeks but am not still fully responding, he's going to prescribe Cytomel to see if that helps since my T3 levels were fairly low. They weren't below the "range" but he doesn't believe the ranges are black and white for indications for all people.

Will update as to how it's going as I start to take the drugs.
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Orion82698
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Posted 2/13/2007 5:44 AM (GMT -7)
That's great news! I'm happy to see that you're finally finding a doctor willing to treat symptoms, not lab work.

I wasn't aware that Cortef came in shots. I look forwards to hearing that you're feeling better here soon.

Take care!
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sparker
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Joined : Oct 2006
Posts : 114
Posted 2/13/2007 9:41 AM (GMT -7)
Sorry, didn't mean to convey that the Cortef was in the shots... only the Magnesium is in the shot. I take the Cortef orally. I should also mention that he (the doctor) said we could try B12 shots too if all else fails.
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Orion82698
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Joined : Mar 2006
Posts : 423
Posted 2/13/2007 4:13 PM (GMT -7)
Wow... that great.  Seems well worth the money.

What was your dosage that he prescribed? 

I had a doctors visit today to go over all my lab work from my Two endo's but I had to cancel to do bad weather here in Maryland.  My appt is tomorrow @ 11:00.  I hope they can do something for me. 

Keep me up to date on how things go. 

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sparker
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Joined : Oct 2006
Posts : 114
Posted 2/13/2007 5:54 PM (GMT -7)
I'm taking 10mg of Cortef in the morning, and then 5mg at noon.

For the magnesium, I'm taking 2ml of that with an additional 1/8ml Lidocaine twice a week for a total of 10 dosages.

I took my first 5mg dose of Cortef this afternoon, no positive of negative results from it yet, although I didn't expect anything from a single dose. I'll provide feedback as the rest of the week goes along.
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Orion82698
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Posted 2/13/2007 8:10 PM (GMT -7)
awesome.


Let me know how things go. Did he say anything about prescribing Armour for thyroid?

Have you had your testosterone tested?
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Orion82698
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Posts : 423
Posted 2/15/2007 8:40 AM (GMT -7)
Sparker,

   How are you feeling?  Any change with the new meds?

I've finally found a doctor who is willing to try me on hormone replacements (Cortef, Armour).  She is in CO, so it's going to be over the phone.  She is wonderful.  Let me know if this don't workout with your new doctor.  She seems in-expensive.

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sparker
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Joined : Oct 2006
Posts : 114
Posted 2/15/2007 10:37 AM (GMT -7)
Well, I did my second shot of magnesium this morning - ow. The needle is like 2 inches long - I nearly passed out doing it.

Yesterday (first full day of Cortef) seemed like I had a little more energy - but not fully. I still ended up running out of energy at around 2:00 PM and went home to sleep. Today seems to be a good day so far - but again days can alway start good and end bad, so I'm not holding my breath yet. But, I do seem to be more awake mentally than I have been in the past.

BTW, the cost of the Magnesium, Lidocain, syringes and month supply of Cortef was only $7.00, so that's pretty sweet as far as medication costs.

He didn't mention Armour specifically, he only mentioned Cytomel as the next step and the B12 shots.

When are you to begin your meds?
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Orion82698
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Joined : Mar 2006
Posts : 423
Posted 2/15/2007 5:21 PM (GMT -7)
You might need a little higher of a dosage. Since you're not really responding, he might up it. I would think another 5-10mg's would help.

I don't know when I'll start meds. I have my first phone consultation with her next Tuesday. She has already asked me if I would like to supplement my cortisol with Cortef and possible thyroid issue with Armour. She is wonderful. The first doctor I've meet who cares about healing me. She is kind, very smart and listens to you and your concerns and wants/needs.

I'm not sure if we can mention her or her website on this page, so if you're interested in the address, email me.

She is very fast in response. I sent her an email last night to setup my 15 minute free phone consultation and she responded back first thing in the morning. It's only like $255 for the first phone consult which is an hour (This is the not the 15 minute phone consult). After that follow up visits cost $25 for 10 minutes. You would really only need to be on the phone with her for maybe 15-20 from what others are saying about her.

She faxes all your precriptions to the pharmacy of your choice. If she prescribes something special, you might have to go to a compound pharmacy to get it.
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hippimom2
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Joined : Jul 2005
Posts : 5403
Posted 2/15/2007 6:35 PM (GMT -7)
I'm so glad you are both finally getting some help. If I remember right, Cortef is similar to prednisone, which I respond really well too. Orion is right about the dose possibly needing to be adjusted - it takes a little while to fine tune everything and find the right dose. When I first started prednisone it gave me energy early in the day, but I faded later in the day. I still get increasingly tired as the day goes on and often times I need a rest, but overall I function much much better than I did prior to taking prednisone.
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Orion82698
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Joined : Mar 2006
Posts : 423
Posted 2/15/2007 8:21 PM (GMT -7)
HM2,

What dosage of Prednisone are you on? Has your doctor every tried Cortef? How about Armour? Not that I'm trying to push these, or doubt the diagnosis... I'm just curious :-)

I too am very happy and I look foward to my visit. I must admit, I will be crushed if this doesn't help me... but it's just another step that I must take.

Sparker : From what I've read and seen, most don't respond to Cortef until they hit 20-25Mgs. See how things go the next couple of days/week and consult with your doctor to see if he's willing to raise your dosage. 20-25Mg's is still a safe dosage of cortisol.

Also, being that you're on this now, it wouldn't be a bad idea to purchase Dr. Jefferies book "the safe uses of Cortisol"
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hippimom2
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Joined : Jul 2005
Posts : 5403
Posted 2/16/2007 7:19 AM (GMT -7)
Right now I'm on 10mg of prednisone, but most of the time I'm on 7.5mg which seems to be a good maintenance dose for me. I go up to 10mg if I start getting worse and then go back down to 7.5 after I've been stable for a while. Anything below 7.5 and I start to crash. I don't really know too much about the difference between cortef and prednisone and how the doses would relate to each other. I don't know much about Armour, although I should read about it because I have had borderline thyroid levels for a long time.
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Orion82698
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Posts : 423
Posted 2/16/2007 9:24 AM (GMT -7)
I would definitely look into the Armour.  However, it's hard to find a doctor that treats t3 deficency with Armour (since it's a natural form of t3 found in animal).  Most will use Synthriod which I believe is just t4. 

That is a mild dosage of prednisone.  Most don't see much effect from Prednisone and it's also hard on the liver.  It would probably relate to around 35-40Mgs of Cortef.  I would ask if you could try the cortef, or Medrol (some like this more).  Both are Corticosteriods. 

It's worth a shot.  If you would like to know more about the doctor I'm seeing to see if you're having a hormone issue, shoot an email.  She works with you via phone and it's relatively inexpensive.

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sparker
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Joined : Oct 2006
Posts : 114
Posted 2/21/2007 2:14 PM (GMT -7)
Well, I can say after a week and a half on the Cortef, that it feels like something good is happening.  I've been more "awake" over the last week than I have been in the last couple years.  I still crash some days - most notably on Sunday where I was dead all day, and most days in the evening, but overall I seem to be more alert during the day.

I'm hoping to get moved up to 20mg of Cortef this coming Monday when I have my phone consultation with my doctor.  He'll also be putting me on some thyroid medication.  I'm going to mention Armour to him and see what he says.

I hope this is in fact progress towards being healthy and not just a run of good days.

I can't wait until the magnesium shots are done.. sometimes the 2 inch needle really doesn't feel great going into the leg.

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Orion82698
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Joined : Mar 2006
Posts : 423
Posted 2/21/2007 9:14 PM (GMT -7)
This is excellent Spaker, I'm right behind you..

You're doctor is smart in start your off slow with cortef. Your body does need to get use to it.

Armour should help you as well. Keep us up to date!!! :-)
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Orion82698
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Joined : Mar 2006
Posts : 423
Posted 2/24/2007 5:04 PM (GMT -7)
Sparker,

How have you been feeling?

Any more improvements on the meds?
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sparker
Regular Member
Joined : Oct 2006
Posts : 114
Posted 2/24/2007 9:33 PM (GMT -7)
I can with 100% confidence say that the Cortef is definitely making a difference. Since I've been taking it, I've been able to think clearly again and be able to work nearly full time again. I'm very very optimistic based on these initial results so far.

One word of caution though, start resuming all your regular activities slowly as you'll easily consume your energies if you overdo it. I did that last weekend by going out with friends both Friday night and Saturday night because I felt decent for the first time in years... and Sunday I was completely exhausted and was in bed most of the day. I felt it coming on Saturday night and got friends to bring me home, but I overdid it too soon.

I have a phone appointment with my doctor Monday, and based on how I'm feeling so far, I think I'll need to increase the Cortef a little because I'm still running out of energy near the end of the day. I also think we'll be adding some thyroid medication, but I'm pretty excited.

I'm very hopeful though.... I can't wait to see how you do with the Cortef. Since you're starting with a small dose, don't be disappointed if it doesn't give immediate results.
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O'Neil
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Joined : Mar 2007
Posts : 7
Posted 3/24/2007 7:45 AM (GMT -7)

I read this forum with particular interest.  Orion and Sparker: I seem to have a lot in common with both of you, and I think you might be as interested in my experience as I was in yours.  Like you, I experienced a drastic crash, which happened about seven years ago (when I was 20), though in retrospect I can see that my fatigue had been gradually increasing since high school.  Before the crash, I was able to control the symptoms through cigarettes, sugar, coffee, and even alcohol, but after the crash nothing seemed to work anymore.  I could drink a cup of coffee and then immediately fall asleep.  I also started having headaches almost constantly (now I realize they were mainly sinus headaches).  I would wake up with pain between my eyes and in my forehead and it would usually last all day.  My digestion suffered also, and I found that I would lose my breath much more easily.  It became much more difficult to exercise, and my weight dropped from a fairly athletic 170 (at 5'9'') to 140.

Unfortunately, because of the respiratory and digestive symptoms, it took me a long time to understand what was really going on.  The conventional doctors did nothing but take my money, and I turned to the internet, where I explored just about every option.  The most effective information before learning about the adrenal glands was to work on my diet.  I went gluten-free and felt better almost immediately.  The trouble was that more and more foods started causing problems, until I could no longer eat dairy, soy, or corn.  I also try to avoid refined carbohydrates of any kind.  I feel best when my carbs come from fruit and vegetables, though I regularly eat potatoes and rice, too.  At some points I have been quite extreme about diet, but I recognize that this is a dangerous path, because any type of extremism is stressful, and I also believe that diet alone can never fully solve chronic adrenal insufficiency.

I only took the saliva cortisol test a little more than a month ago, and it was a revelation.  The lab that I did my test with used different units from yours, but my morning level was at a third of the low end of normal; my mid-day level was about half of the low end, and my evening and bedtime levels were in the normal range.  DHEA was at the low end of normal, 4 on the same scale as your test (normal being 3-10).  As a 27 year-old male, I think it should definitely be higher.  I was very happy to see these results, because it means that I have an explanation for my health problems.  My allergies, sinusitus, poor digestion and breathing, and of course fatigue, can all be linked to adrenal insufficiency, and I hope that if I can strengthen my adrenals enough, I will be able to feel healthy and eat a normal diet again.  Even after only a few weeks of therapy, I am already noticing improvement.

My first goal was to find a doctor who would prescribe Cortef, and I succeeded.  This was very fortunate, because I had stressful grad school interviews planned at two Ivy League schools, and I knew that without extra support I would probably crash.   As expected, the cortisol did the trick.  I still had some problems, but I could clearly feel the extra stamina, especially in the morning.  Not only did the cortisol improve energy, but subtle things that I did not always connect to my health improved.  I felt more confident and assertive than usual--and less patient (I am often far too patient with people).    

I'm still sort of worried about cortisol supplemenation, though, so now I only take it during times of extra stress (like 5 mg before a work-out).  Instead, I take licorice in the morning, as well as Isocort and a glandular.  I tried 50 mg of pregnenolone yesterday, which did help A LOT with energy, but kept me wide awake in a kind of manic frenzy until 4 am.  It didn't kick in at full strength until about 11 pm, although I took it at 9 am, and then I felt so completely cracked out on adrenal hormones that I had to exercise vigorously for nearly an hour to calm myself down.  I'm now afraid to take it again, and my wife is especially concerned--I can't blame her after how crazy I was last night.  I had this reaction once before when I had too much licorice, but now it works fine, so maybe I should just try a lower dose of pregnenolone.   

I'm interested in DHEA and would like to hear your experiences with it.  Has it been helpful without any unpleasant side effects?  Are there dangers with taking it similar to the dangers with cortisol? 

I could write many more pages about my own experiences, but I'd like to hear feedback from you guys before going any further.  I do have one last thing I want to share, though.  I recently found a new biotype classification system (almost like a personality test) based on organs of the endocrine system.  I fit very strongly into the thyroid type, which among other things is characterized by weak adrenals.  I'm curious to see if other people with low adrenal function have the same immediate fit with other elements of the biotype.  The thyroid type description can be found at http://www.biotype.net/types/thyroid.htm.  I'm also curious about your bloodtypes.  I don't know if this is significant at all, but I've read that type A is associated with weak adrenals.  I'm A-. 

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Clay2
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Posted 3/25/2007 10:46 AM (GMT -7)
I would post my recent experience with tests in detail - but wait, you just did it for me, Sparker. I had my saliva done at Diagnostechs, they were way low for morning cortisol and TSH was sky high. My doc repeated the work with blood, and everything came back normal. My error, obviously, I'm not sick, just crazy.

I've found a local doctor who will do cortef and some kind of thryoid and will get an appointment Monday. My insurance won't cover it.

A couple of notes from my reading.

If you are taking vitamin D supplements, be sure to get the D3 form.
The side effects of cortef (thinning bones especially) are generally not an issue at less than 20 units/day. I hope that is true!

I hope we can all keep sharing with this. I'd love to see how the rest of you do with it!
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