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Doctor Shopping for Percosets?????

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Posted 3/4/2009 6:24 PM (GMT -7)

Let me tell you guys a little story. On Dec 29th I suffered a Bi lateral Quadricep Rupture doing deadlifts with 560 pounds (i tore the tendons in both of my quadriceps and the muscle in one leg)..I had surgery on new years eve, I spent a  week in the hospital and when i got out...I was getting percosets 10/325 weekly from my orthopedic doctor. Recently, He filled a prescription for me on a Monday I saw him later that week on Friday. That Friday He informed me he would be leaving for vacation BUT someone would fill a prescription for me on Monday. When i called on Monday they told me there was NOTHING in his notes about how many to prescribe so they gave me 20 pills for TWO WEEKS!!! but at that point i was cutting my pills down by 1/2 per week (which is what he told me to do) and I was cutting that week down to 5 a week!!!!so after the 20 ran out I went to my GP showing him a chart of how I was cutting the percs per week and he gave me 30 Percosets. We had a snow storm the following Monday so after being fed up with the miscommunication I went back to my GP and told Him I wanted to deal with him for getting the Percosets and we would do a prescription every two weeks until i was down to 1 pill a day. He gave me 48. The next day My orthopedic office called and told me my percosets were ready?? ummm ok?? I got the percs (30) thinking I would fill the prescription hang on to them and add them to the pile so i wouldn't have to re fill the prescription until I was down to the last few weeks of 1 or 2 per day. So I go to a rite aid to fill the prescription (because I knew they had endocet I was there day before with the 48 prescription, they had it but not that many) and filled it..but at the end the pharmacist said "you filled a script yesterday somewhere else" and i started saying "well my one doctor was on vacation" story and he shook his head and gave me back the script. I was by no means at ALL doctor shopping I was stocking up and following my taper procedure as I planned with my GP and was totally clueless that what i was doing could be considered doctor shopping? both guys are MY doctors one is my orthopedic one is my GP. Is this considered Doctor Shopping? I really was clueless what I was doing could be considered as much. I am taking 3.5 -5 a day for christs sake (depending on my pain) its not like Im abusing them taking 10-20 a day!!!???

Post Edited (elema44) : 3/4/2009 6:30:54 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 3/4/2009 6:57 PM (GMT -7)

Yes it is considered doctor shopping and I am pretty sure that both of your doctors are now aware that you tried to fill that 2nd script. While you are in the immediate post op period, you are under the care of your surgeon until he releases you to either Pain management/ your private physician for pain meds or he tells you that you have recovered and no longer need pain meds. Until then, you are only supposed to get prescriptions from one doctor.....no matter what.

Or , depending on your doctor, he may tell you that if you have emergency situations and are given a script that you need to contact them immediately upon the office's opening the following day......

Anyway, I would guess that you are now flagged in the pharmacies and also at your doctor's offices.

Sandi

Posted 3/4/2009 8:40 PM (GMT -7)
I just spoke to someone who is a pharmacist. It is not Doctor shopping PHEW!! considering the small amount i was trying to fill, it was my first time dong this and I NEVER tried to refill early before all that will happen is they will just make a note that i cannot get meds there. Or just make a note of the situation. The people they look to bust are habitial doing this all the time with A LOT of meds being prescribed. I was trying to fill 30 come on now!! The pharmacist will not call my doctors nor insurance company. I will just hold the second prescription and wait till the end of next week to re fill it. I now know to never get two prescriptions at same time thats all. It was perfectly fine that i got my GP to give me a prescription while my orthopedic was out for two weeks. It was HIS mistake that he didnt make a note that I should have gotten 30 per week not 20 for TWO WEEKS!!!! That's was their dumb mistake not mine!!! what's scary about all this is I am someone who suffered a terrible injury and am not abusing my medication. I only take 3.5 - 5 a day not 10-20. I understand why they have this law, and NOTHINg was ever explained or outlined to me when I started my pain medication. Again not my fault.  And my GP knew my entire story and never once said "hey I can't help you out i'm sorry I can get in trouble". He heard that my orthopedic office screwed up and he helped me.

Post Edited (elema44) : 3/4/2009 8:46:01 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 3/4/2009 8:56 PM (GMT -7)
Hi, Elema,
I'm kind of tired so reluctant to post as I'm afraid I'll word somethng poorly. Unfortunately, for us chronic pain patients we don't have to be doing anything wrong to be under the scrutiny of a whole host of people, policies, and organizations. Even though you yourself weren't doctor shopping, it can be perceived that way because that's how it used to be done. The new policies in recent years (like what you experienced when you couldn't get that filled) have helped to curtail the real doctor shopping, but that doesn't mean we don't get caught even if innocent.

What gets recorded by whom, how and where will depend to some extent on your state laws, how the pharmacies handle it, and your doctor's office, as well as your insurance. If in any way someone tried to check the ocmputer and your insurance was involved, they could be notified that you were attempting to fill the script. I'd just suggest you explain clearly to both your doctors what happened, and make sure they've got it in writing clearly in their records so there's no reason to suspect you in the future. We become suspect even when we haven't done anything. Most doctors who are prescribing you narcotics have you sign a contract, a part of which is that you won't get pain meds from other doctors. That may not have occurred with you if your surgeon was still managing your meds, but you do want to make sure nothing negative gets stuck in your record somewhere.

PaLady
Posted 3/4/2009 9:08 PM (GMT -7)
thanks for your reply palady. I appreciate it. What I will do is explain my whole story in writing and bring it when I see each of them. If they ask me about it I will have it in writing. If not then I wont mention it. This person I know who is a pharmacist is almost 100% positive that the Pharm at Rite Aid wont say anthing besides making a note for Rite Aid to red flag me and not give me pain meds again (she knows cause she red flags people and also calls the cops on people and reports doc shopping to doctors) its a case by case basis and since mine was insignificant (30 pillz) and the first time he will most likely just make a notation for rite aid. She told me they look for 100 pills or more, forged scripts, multiple scripts at same time, scripts paid by cash with no script etc
Posted 3/4/2009 11:36 PM (GMT -7)
Hi elema!

And welcome to our CP family! I'm sure glad you got this figured out. Like PaLady said...we're in trouble even if we don't do anything wrong. Always make sure to use the same pharmacy or if you change permanently then notify your doctor. Always a good idea as a precaution. If I were you I might consider changing pharmacies only because of the hassles. But since you are almost off of the med's it's not likely to be a problem now.

Keep us posted,
Chutzie
Posted 3/5/2009 3:51 AM (GMT -7)
Thanks Chutzie I wont be filling the second script till late next week so ill keep you posted!!!! like you said most likely it wont be a problem!!
Posted 3/5/2009 9:37 AM (GMT -7)
Elema,
Before you fill the second script make sure that you clear that it is okay with the surgeon , otherwise you might find yourself with a whole new mess to deal with. If I were you, I would call the surgeons' office and explain to them what happened now, before you attempt to fill the script and ask them what they would like you to do in regard to your pain meds now. Avoid a problem before it is created and then you have to try to clear it up.
Your friend who is a pharmacist might have different reporting criteria than Rite Aid. Around me, it is considered doctor shopping, whether it is 10 pills or 100...getting two scripts from two different doctors in the same time frame and trying to fill them will get you red flagged at all of the pharmacies around . It will also result in phone calls to both doctors telling them that the person tried to fill or did fill however many scripts.
If you signed a contract with your surgeon, then you really need to call them and tell them what happened today, instead of waiting. In fact, I would tell them both what happened instead of waiting for them to ask.
Good luck to you,
Sandi
Posted 3/5/2009 9:48 AM (GMT -7)
Thanks everyone for their advice and support, however I am going to stick to my oroginal plan and listen to my friend who is a pharmacist. I am going to my orthopedic tomorrow and will not say a word about it unless he says something. If he does then I have everything that happened in writing in my pocket and hand it to him.
Posted 3/5/2009 1:21 PM (GMT -7)
Elema,
I kind of sense you don't want any more comments, so I'll keep this brief. I would just suggest you not take lightly what Sandi (mrsn) is saying. Things also get placed into computer systems and those often go to all pharmacies, your insurance company (even if you didn't have anything filled), and your doctors. There may or may not be discretion on the part of the pharmacist, but if there is the pharmacist you visited may be different than your friend. My cousin is a pharmacist and I often talk to her, but more importantly I also know firsthand and from reading here that it's easier to stop problems from happening than it is to correct them later. Especially in this area. If you're not used to dealing with chronic pain medications and how we're often treated, it's so different than what we're all used to doing with other medications. The things that just make sense (like what you did with your PCP) are viewed in another light when it comes to pain meds.

Most of us know it's just so very hard, if not impossible, to correct something after the fact. Much easier to prevent. Ok, I'll stop now!

PaLady
Posted 3/5/2009 4:49 PM (GMT -7)
nciense

I dont mind comments I mean i made the post. What's done is done. I am tapering down off the meds if they cut me off they cut me off I will make do what I have left. The Pharmacist looked like he was annoyed that I slowed him down more then anything and went about doing something else. I doubt he did anything beyond making a notation to not allow me to fill a script at Rite Aid. Which is fine because i usually go to Target. I was near Rite Aid at that time and I knew they had Endocets (the Mallis make me exhausted and sick) so I tried filling it there. I dont have a guilty conscience  I just made a stupid mistake. I have my full explanation in writing printed out and will bring it to my orthopedic if he questions me about it tomorrow. Look its his fault I had to go to my GP to get a refill because he went away for 2 weeks and failed to make the proper notes on how many to dispense to me. His EXACT WORDS "PLEASE COME DOWN OFF THESE SLOOWWWLLYY" I was down from 8 per day to 6 at that point and was going to cut it down to 5 and a half. Meaning the first week he was gone i needed 38.5 and the second week 35. The lady who is the liason told me all nasty "YOUR GETTING 20 until he comes back" wow thanks lady! I explained what my Orthopedic said I explained I was not to come down so suddenly from them I got "im sorry" well you know what? Im sorry that i didnt want to go thru withdrawls and lay in bed for 3 days and not be able to get thru PT because my knee is killing me. So I went to my GP told him the WHOLE story and he gave them to me big deal. and afterthe second time he renewed me I recieved a script from the orthopedic place because he came back from vacation. Again BIG DEAL they gave me 30, now if i was crushing these pills and stuffing them up my nose and doing 10 a day I can see why its a problem. My ONLY intentions were to stock up and not have to worry about renewing anything with anyone for a month!! do the math 48 from one doc 30 from another = 78 pills if it lasts me one month thats 19.5 a week or 2.78 a day LOL come on now. So i did something stupid I admit that in my notes. I'll explain that he was very carless in telling me to come off slowly then going on vacation (which he seemed to be VERY preoccupied with when i was there) and not writing in his notes EXACTLY how many were to be dispensed to me. We'll see tomorrow I'll give you guys a full report. And Btw I called the orthopedic office today to check on my appointment for tomorrow and they pulled me up on the computer and said NOTHING to me. I'm sure they would have said something because if the Pharmacist called he would have done it right away, later that day or this morning. So far I've heard nothing!! So I doubt he called. We'll see in the am

Post Edited (elema44) : 3/5/2009 5:26:38 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 3/5/2009 5:00 PM (GMT -7)
And I will never know the level of pain some of you are experiencing. My pain at this point is tolerable and my main motivation is to ween off the pills. I am down to 3.5 a day and will cut it down by 1/2 a week every week (unless something did in fact happen). And my friend who is a pharmacist has sent people to jail like 17 times for doctor shopping and for fraudulent scripts and she has assured me what I did is not a big deal, and "someone like me" would not be red flagged for one mess up this small. I know I know plenty of people will say "its still doctor shopping, blah blah, doesnt matter if its one or 1,000 pills' etc but I'm going by her experience and by the reaction of the pharmacist. I really will be shocked if i ever hear about this again honestly.
Posted 3/5/2009 5:31 PM (GMT -7)
Elema,
I don't think you were doctor shopping, but your behavior is one of the red flags for it. You're lucky, as it appears that this is an acute situation for you, and that you won't require pain medication for the long haul. So you won't have to experience what many of us have to. The overwhelming majority of chronic pain patients aren't abusers, but we're often treated like criminals - or potential criminals - by doctors, pharmacists, etc. What you're experiencing is what we have to live with all the time. Hopefully, you'll now be more aware of the fact when you try to get pain treated, you're going to be looked upon with a raised eyebrow by many people.

So again - I don't think you were doctor shopping any more than most of us are, but we run into the same stuff over and over and over again. It's how we have to live our lives.

PaLady
Posted 3/6/2009 8:32 AM (GMT -7)
Well, just as I suspected folks my orthopedic was NOT notified, in fact he asked me if i needed another script LOL I told him no I was ok for now. I looked up my script history on my insurance web site and the last two times that I filled it says not available for the doc that pescribed the endocets (who was my GP) so he cannot be notified either. So this was a close call and I will not fill this script until next thurs or fri. Thanks for your advice and support people I appreciate it.
Posted 3/7/2009 11:04 AM (GMT -7)
Elema,
I'm so glad that you listned and took the advice of the veteran members on this site. I myself have been on pain meds for over 5 years and have been lucky to have a small town pharmacy where I will only get my meds filled. I stay wih my same doctor and same pharmacist I will tell you my pharmacist knows what I have to take and the brand. He always makes sure that when I come in that my meds are there waiting. One Saturday there was a new pharmacist and my main pharmacist was off which is rare and some of my meds I was told will have to be ordered or If I am out try another store just this one time. I went to Giant Food, Walgreens, and Rite Aid and was told by all that they can fill a partial script but the other half would be considered dead meaning they would not fill the other half. My pharmicist says this is practice at big chain stores and that my history is excellent since I go to one doc and one pharmacy. I basically was made to feel like a criminal because what I found out was by others out there doctor shopping and abusing meds is a big and serious problem and is making it harder for those of us that suffer daily to obtain our meds without someone giving you that look as though we have done something wrong. Glad your feeling better and can come off your meds soon.

John
Posted 3/7/2009 2:21 PM (GMT -7)
John,
I'm not sure what state you live in, but I know in my state it is actually against the law for a pharmacist to "re-use" a script for a C2 medication. If the entire script is not filled at the time of purchase, the rest of the pills are forfeited. A new script for the remaining doses can be written without any issues, but the same script from before is considered filled & cannot be applied towards the filling of the remaining doses. Now, I sometimes go to a small pharmacy as well & that pharmacist does give patients the remaining doses when they come in, but I asked him about it & he said he just thought the law didn't make any sense so he does it his own way. He said the way he does it is by putting on record that he is filling the entire dose on the date written, then he just gives the patients the extra pills once he gets them from the manufacturer. It's not legal, but it is done.

If it works for you, I won't criticize, but the reason the pharmacist at the chain pharmacy may have been acting like it was against the law may have been that it actually is against the law. You may be a good, responsible person who really didn't know there was anything wrong with it, but that could explain why the other pharmacists had such a strong reaction. Just something to keep in the back of your mind. I know I was in one other state that had the same laws. Without even knowing it was an issue, I had the pharmacist give me what he had in stock at the time & send the extra meds when he was able to get them. It turned out that the pharmacy was audited & it ended up that the pharmacist and his tech each lost their licenses & the pharmacy was closed down for good. I was in shock b/c I couldn't understand what was wrong with giving me meds if I had a script for them, but that's the law in many states. I do understand the purpose behind it a little better now, but it is no doubt a very strict law. You may want to check into what the laws are in your area. God forbid that little pharmacy gets shut down, it will mean adjusting to one that follows the stricter policies.

take care,
frances
Posted 3/8/2009 1:03 AM (GMT -7)
I wouldn't take too much comfort in the fact that your physicians weren't notified. Here, we have a prescription monitoring program operated by the state and every narcotic prescription filled is reported electronically to the program, direct from the pharmacies. Every pharmacy in the state is required to comply with the reporting requirement, regardless of how big or how small they are. The program will flag you all by itself if you're for obtaining multiple prescriptions from different physicians, because it's a big honkin' red flag for diversion activity.
Posted 3/8/2009 8:57 AM (GMT -7)
Just a response about this. I was in no way of trying to obtain multiple prescriptions from different doctors. I was just advised by my regular pharmacy that my regular pharmacist was not there the day I went to get my meds filled and the tech said it looks like my meds would be in tomorrow. She said the new pharmiscist that is filling in that day was really new and if I could wait until tomorrow everything would be there. My pharmiscist knows all the meds I am on and almost 100% of the time when I get my scripts filled has everything there. Almost all my meds are over 100 pills a month. The tech said I should have no problem if I went to the stores mentioned. Well I did because I guess of the amount. I am not worried about being flagged because for the last 5 years I have been on pain meds I take my bottles to my appointments and let him see what I have left Most of the time my doctor will write my prescriptions a few days out of my appointment time because I have to say I have never been short on my meds. That is the only way I know to gain trust from your doctor is take in all your meds and show him what is left. I think you gys may have did the same thing say if you had a script for 180 pills and that pharmacy said they can fill 40 but that is it and that I cannot receive a partial on it and pick up the rest in a couple days. I think most everone would just wait and go to the regular pharmacy. All of us are flagged and monitored. If the red flag bothers someone then that person is doing something wrong and those are the people who make it hard for the rest of us who are honest and are doing things the right way. I have had the same doctor for 9 years and the same pharmacy for 7 years.
Bionicwoman= I am not worried if they notify my phycian (make note I said phycian not phycians) I have one doctor. I have never went to multiple doctors for pain meds in my life. Even if I go to the emergency room and am treated for my pain I make sure to get a copy of my emergncy room visit to show me what they treated me with and if a prescription was written I take that to my primary doctor to show him I didnt get anythng filled so that I remain on a good standing with him. If someone even gets a script from the emergency room filled and do not notify their doctor then they are not only being dishonest with themselves but are making harder for the honest people to obtain their meds. I dont worry about red flags they are for the ones who are sneaking around to several doctors and pharmacies and I think they should be dealt with accordingly. I think my earlier email was misunderstood. All I was trying to say was how diffuclt it was to get my regular monthly meds filled at a different pharmacy. Thats all. I think it was taking wrong.

John
Posted 3/8/2009 8:58 PM (GMT -7)
My response was to elema44. I should have clarified that.
Posted 3/9/2009 7:30 AM (GMT -7)
Sorry Bionicwoman I was having a bad day and didnt mean to come across bad if I did. I just have always followed the rules and thought I was being questioned. Sorry for that. This is a good site with lots of good people here.

John
Posted 3/9/2009 6:48 PM (GMT -7)
No problem, John. I should have addressed my post more directly. :)
Posted 3/13/2009 10:08 PM (GMT -7)
Well looks  like I can take comfort in the fact that my doctors were not notified. I simply threw out the extra script I had and received the next one and filled it with two days left on the other script. So no  worries!!Just wont fill two so close to each  other

Posted 3/15/2009 6:42 PM (GMT -7)
I am glad to hear that you have had no further trouble with getting your medications. I hope that you heal well and are able to forget about the pain you have been in. They (whoever They are) say that the brain forgets pain in time. I think this is supposed to be some kind of protection mechanism or something. At any rate, I am glad to hear that you at least do not have to worry about running out of medication or being labeled a "Drug-Seeker" or "Doctor-Shopper" or anything else for that matter.


Skrape
Posted 3/16/2009 12:12 AM (GMT -7)
I know I'm gonna regret writng this, but I WAS red flagged 3 years ago just cause I went to the hospital too many times in a short period of time. I got absoutly no narcotics (that I remember) so I wasnt red flagged for that, but now I'm on restriction with my insurance, which means I'm only allowed to use one doctor's office (doesn't count specialists), one pharmacy (which I have ALWAYS used one pharmacy, and I love them and love the fact that ther're around the corner form me), and one hospital (which is great, cause I love that hospital, but what if I'm ever out of town when I need one). But what happened was that I cut my finger with a knife opening a big bag of M&Ms, and had to get stitches. Well they gave me a tetanus shot, which I was due for, and everything was fine and dandy. Well the next day I woke up with my neck muscle really tightened, and by noon, this muscle tightness had crept down to my waist, I could hardly move. So I called my doctor, and she told me to go the ER. So I went and they said it was an allergic reaction due to the tetanus shot, so I was giving benadryl and muscle relaxers, and felt way better after my first dose. Well a few days went by and my finger got really infected, so I had to go back due to my doctor telling me to. Then 2 days later I ran into a door like a retard and got a contusion on my foot (or so they say, they wouldnt xray it and it bruised and swelled up like crazy, and took a few years to completly stop hurting). So just like that, I'm red flagged and looked at badly whenever they see I'm on restriction cause I guess most people on restriction (I have state insurance cause I'm on disability) are drug addicts. And I was gonna fight it, but then I moved out of state for a while, but then when I moved back it was too late cause you only have 90 days to ask for a hearing. So you can get red flagged so easily, and just because the pharmacy didn't notify the doctor, doesnt mean they wont find out, they have their ways.

-hellokitty
Posted 3/16/2009 1:35 AM (GMT -7)

Kitty, I am sitting here tonight after having to go into work and now I can't sleep. I read your post. You started out saying you would probably regret writing the post. I am not sure why. If it was due the type of injuries, I was actually laughing slightly so I would not wake anyone up. I was not laughing at you but at myself. I think we could all tell stories of things we did that look rather silly later. You really have to watch those M&M bags. Again, please don't think I am making fun of you in any way. At the residential school where I work, I employ 2 students as cooks every quarter. I think almost every one of my cooks has headed to the ER due to cutting themselves. When I have to fill out the reports, I am always amused at how they did it. I have even bought them cut resistant gloves. Because the state I am in does not allow people to enroll in public insurance (for at least the last 3 years) and these students are not considered as regular employees, work comp does not come into play. I am on a first name basis with the billing department at the hospital and so far I have been able to get all the charges written off by the hospital. I have had to have 2 students in for surgey for other things and so far all those have been written off as well. I have to monitor my students who get injured to make sure that every prescription is valid and that no doctor shopping or pharmacy switching takes place. I also have discovered that it does not take much at times to raise a red flag these days. Because there are so many today that do the unethical and even illegal actions in regard to meds, those who are innocent often are tagged or suspected. Thank you for sharing. 

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