Anterior/Posterior Shoulder pain, 19 Years Old

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Tulsa180
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 13
   Posted 10/7/2010 5:45 PM (GMT -6)   
To start off I will describe my stats, I am 5'11, 170 pounds, with an above average wingspan, it is much longer than I am tall, by about 4-6 inches, I have an above average muscular physique, but not shockingly muscular.

I have been having shoulder pain since about two and a half years ago. It all started after about one and a half years of bodybuilding, I was young and dumb and strained myself treating my body like an adults in the gym. It was not until after I started experiencing slight pain that I realized I needed to start lifting smart and taking rest periods, stretching, etc.

So the pain escalated, going from minor pain in my posterior (back) delts after chest day, and anterior(front) delt pain after chest and other heavy upper body workout days. The pain slowly got worse, but never got unbearable, I slowed working out down and got in and out of weight gain phases, at the end of each pain would eventually return at full capacity and I would stop for a good amount of time.

Now days I have not weight lifted or done bodybuilding for a little over a year now, and I love stand up jet ski riding and rock climbing as of now, they are my two passions and they give me pain also. The shoulder pain along the way went from every now and then-to every day, the pain goes down a lot when I am not doing strenuous activities around those times, but say the day after rock climbing, I will feel anterior pain the next day and other times I will experience posterior pain. After jet ski riding it is almost always anterior pain(back of deltoids) that occurs.

The pain however is never intolerable, whether the pain is after activity, or light pain in every day activity it is almost always just highly irritating, and never unbearable. The pain feels like a strain. Back when I first started experiencing pain it would sometimes occur during a fast jerking movement and would leave my shoulder immobile for a few days and in real pain, but since I stopped bodybuilding I have not experienced immobilizing pain, its just irritating and makes me worried about my future since I am only 19 years old.

That is my story, now I will fill in some holes and get further into it with bullet points

-I have been told by my medical doctor that it was just irritated and to do rotator cuff exercises and lift lightly for a couple weeks (this was when the pain was starting to arise after bodybuilding) I tried the rest, and exercises and no help. Pain never really subsided or got better, sometimes it would seem the exercises were working then the pain would come back, a lot of times during exercises.

-I have also visited a chiropractor who said the exact same things, but went through the rotator cuff exercises with me differently and did some hands on with my shoulder. But after a while the exercises just seemed to agitate the pain.

-I then saw a shoulder specialist, who said i had loose joints and my long reach and wingspan put more strain on my shoulders and rotator cuffs, however he also told me to do the exercises and that I should be fine to lift heavy weights. The exercises again did not work, the lifting only hurt and strained my shoulders.

-Rotator cuff exercises feel good sometimes and bad others, I have yet to continue them for over 3 or so weeks.
-Sleeping on my sides seems to cause them to be irritated the next day, even sleeping normally or belly down is irritating sometimes.
-The pain seems to have been initially from premature weight lifting, and has not subsided or gone away after eliminating bodybuilding all together as of a year and a half ago.
-It is steady, never immobilizing or unbearable, cuff exercise seem not to help, I do a lot of reaching, pulling, and pushing movements in the sports I partake in, irritation usually follows.

-Recently I have started to feel the shoulder pain following down my arm into my hand. When I feel anterior pain I can sometimes feel it through my elbow and down to the back of my hand in the middle/middle finger area.

That is all the info I have, I have been keeping a messy journal to help write this, I apologize for the amount of info, but I worry every day, and just want this pain gone, does anybody have an idea of what I may have?

Thank you
Zac

couchtater
Elite Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 14475
   Posted 10/7/2010 7:03 PM (GMT -6)   
Has any of these geniuses done a MRI on you? How about x-rays? If not then you need to kick up a fuss and insist on having one done.
Joy

Tulsa180
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 13
   Posted 10/7/2010 7:34 PM (GMT -6)   
thats what I always mention, they either say its not necessary or dont bring it up

i have told my parents i need one, and even they seem to think im just being a girl

Are MRI expensive? and who should I go to if even a shoulder specialist tells me im fine?

I forgot to mention that driving even gives me pain every so often

skeye
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 3089
   Posted 10/7/2010 7:46 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Zac,

Have you had an MRI? If not, you should really see an orthopedic surgeon & request one -- especially if you tried the PT & are still having problems. PT is a good place to start, but if it fails, then some more investigative work needs to be done. Shoulders are tough & soft-tissue damage won't show up on an x-ray. An MRI is probably the best way to see into the joint, but even then, sometimes it is hard to pick up things like subtle labral tears on the MRI, so I'd suggest getting your MRI done at a big teaching hospital, or somewhere else that has very good equipment.

I had multiple surgeries on both of my shoulders from age 15 to age 18 (now 22). I basically destroyed both my joints by swimming competitively & had to have to ligaments & cartilage rebuilt. I too had naturally lax shoulders (part of what made my an excellent swimmer).

Do your shoulders pop in & out of the joint, or "click." Clicking & popping can be signs of ligament damage, and/or labral damage.

Even after having had my shoulders fixed, I still have trouble sleeping on them.

When you sleep on your side, is it the shoulder that you sleep on that hurts, or the other one? If it is the other one, try putting a small pillow under your arm, and another one under your hand, so that your arm is supported & your shoulder isn't left "hanging" as you sleep & thus putting stress on the joint. The pillows that I find work best for this kind of support are "Moshi" pillows. They are small cylindrical pillows filled with soft "beans." I like they because they are very flexible and can conform to the shape of your arm, etc.

Unfortunately, I haven't found any great tricks to alleviate the pain on the other shoulder (the one in contact with the bed), other than changing position often so that the joint isn't kept in one position for too long.

As for a topical pain reliever, I like Wobenzyme cream. You can find it in your local health food store. I find that it's effects seems to penetrate deeper into the joint than some of the other topicals. Although, unfortunately, nothing can really get deep into the joint where my pain is/was.

I liked ice more than heat, but both can be helpful. If you ever have surgery, make sure to ask about something called a "cryo-cuff." It's an amazing invention that allows you to ice your shoulder & put pressure on it at the same time & it attaches to a cooler which keeps water ice cold, so you can change out the water in the cuff for cold water once the water in the cuff warms up.

Let me know if I can be of any other help. I've basically been through it all with my shoulders & have come up with many ways to adapt to chronic shoulder pain & weakness.

hugs,
Skeye

Tulsa180
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 13
   Posted 10/7/2010 8:12 PM (GMT -6)   
Wow thats very helpful, I forgot to mention that I was on the swim team my senior year which happened to be around the end of my heavy lifting into my lighter lifting days. I was very fast but the shoulder pain caused me to refrain and ultimately leave the team, I swim slower now a days and it seems to alleviate some pain, and other times it can be strenuous, it is so annoying. There are so many factors I probably forgot to mention many.

The sleeping usually hurts the one down, I havent really took notes on the sleeping aspect as of yet.

They did use to click and pop a lot, but not as much these days that ive stuck to the newer sports and eliminated bodybuilding.

Yeah thats the word, laxed, my shoulders will stretch and pull like no other, which gives me great climbing strength, awesome form on jet skis, and amazing strength in lifting, it is just such a hard thing to deal with knowing what you could be capable of without the pain

skeye
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 3089
   Posted 10/7/2010 8:57 PM (GMT -6)   
I know, Tulsa. It is really frustrating. I was one of the top rated distance swimmers in the country for my age group when I first injured my shoulders. Unfortunately, after I first injury, I was forced to give up swimming on such a competitive level. I miss it terribly & it still kills me to think how far I could have gone if I hadn't gotten injured. I'm positive that I would have made 2008 Olympic trials (not the team, I wasn't THAT good, but I was certainly good enough to make the trials meet). Now I can barely swim even a fraction of what I used too. My shoulders are pretty good now (although it took 3 surgeries & then several more years of recovery) -- they are solid & don't hurt me most of the time, but swimming or any heavy lifting, etc still does hurt them. But you learn to accommodate.

Again, please let me know if I can be of any more help. I don't know where you live. But if you are in the USA, I can recommend a couple of great shoulder surgeons. The one who did all my work was in NYC, but I also know of one in Alabama.

Skeye
chronic eye pain, depression, and anxiety
recently implanted with a neurostimulator with leads on the supraobrital & infraorbital (ophthalmic) branches of the trigeminal nerve, resulting in a 50% decrease in pain (yippee!)

Tulsa180
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 13
   Posted 10/7/2010 9:26 PM (GMT -6)   
Im in tulsa oklahoma, who is the surgeon in alabama?

So the surgeries were on what exactly? and they did help? i hear from a lot of people that the surgeries a lot of the time are helpless.

Also, were yours ever seriously injured and hurt or were they more irritated like in my case?

thanks for all the info man

Tulsa180
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 13
   Posted 10/7/2010 9:28 PM (GMT -6)   
also recently came across this, it looks promising, although i am always very skeptical, but it seems to me I have similar pains to the ones described by the people this product has helped

http://www.rotatoreliever.com/

Post Edited (Tulsa180) : 10/7/2010 9:57:45 PM (GMT-6)


solar powered
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 538
   Posted 10/7/2010 9:55 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi there Tulsa. I just wanted to let you know that I have sloppy shoulder joints also so know first hand what a pain it is! I'm sorry that you have to go through that. It's no fun. I was born this way. My left shoulder is worse and the humerus slides around in the joint significantly. It gets out of proper position in the process which puts stress and irritates the biceps tendon also. Sometimes the tendon will even dislocate out of the groove in the humerus it is supposed to be in. I am in treatment with a chiropractor that specializes in orthopedic/sports injuries. His favorite therapy is something called active release technique. He also gave me exercises to do. It took time but things are improved. Because of my anatomy I will always be at risk for partial dislocation. There are surgeries for this problem but from what I understand they can be very difficult recoveries. If I can control the situation (or do well with it as my chiro likes to say) without surgery I am better off because I have fibromyalgia also which complicates the matter. I can't sleep on that left side because it pushes the head of the humerus out of proper position causing pain. I have learned to not sleep on that side. I also have to be careful of how I reach for things and my posture. Pain meds make me sick so I don't use them but usually do OK. I guess I have accepted a certain degree of pain with that shoulder and when things get too much I tell my chiropractor and he works on it more. So anyway that's my story. I hope that you can find some relief very soon. Lisa
If I can laugh at it, I can live with it.

solar powered
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 538
   Posted 10/7/2010 9:58 PM (GMT -6)   
Oh I forgot to say that I do get pain in my elbow and hand sometimes too when the humerus is out of joint. The position can sometimes put pressure on the nerves. Good luck to you, Lisa
If I can laugh at it, I can live with it.

Tulsa180
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 13
   Posted 10/7/2010 10:14 PM (GMT -6)   
thanks lisa, that seems to also be close to most of my pains, pressure on the nerves sounds right too.

Theres an awesome sports chiro guy in my hometown that my friend recommended, I may give him a shot and possibly an ortho surgeon if I can find one close. I would really like to get an MRI and a specific diagnosis.

The pain I can live with, as long is it isnt holding me back, I can do anything I want as of now when it comes to climbing, its just more painful when I do things like that. My fear is my future and not being able to do sports. i have been into bmx, skateboarding, climbing, snowboarding, camping, everything, I love new hobbies and sports and thinking of not being able to do them in my future almost makes me sick.

old at 40
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 1
   Posted 10/8/2010 6:51 AM (GMT -6)   
you are starting young i hope you get help. i am 40 and i can tell you the pain gets worse with time.
confused

Tulsa180
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 13
   Posted 10/8/2010 11:21 AM (GMT -6)   
thats what I am afraid of, i feel disabled, it is a horrible thought

solar powered
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 538
   Posted 10/8/2010 1:37 PM (GMT -6)   
Tulsa, you don't know what the future will bring so don't fear it or get hung-up in playing the what-if game. That kind of thinking is very counterproductive and can lead to a very dark road that you really don't want to go down. It is scary and very lonely there and difficult to find your way back. Keep searching for an answer and never ever give up until you get it. That's what I had to do and I finally did get the help I needed. Your shoulders may never be perfect but that doesn't mean your sports life is over. You can do this. Lisa
If I can laugh at it, I can live with it.

Tulsa180
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 13
   Posted 10/8/2010 2:04 PM (GMT -6)   
Haha thank you for that, i tend to over emotionalize through the web. I am quite the hypochondriac and over analyzer so it is getting to me, but you are right I need to get a straight diagnoses and make things work

antbuggey
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2010
Total Posts : 594
   Posted 10/8/2010 4:02 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Zac,

I do not know much about shoulders....but I know Pain...Unfortunately!! So sorry that you are having so much pain, so young!

Stick around....you will like it here! We have many caring and understanding people here! It's like family!

Anyway, I just wanted to stop in with a quick hello and a welcome to the forum!

Take care of you!
Beckey
Spinal Stenosis L3/L4, L4/L5 & L5/S1 with Nerve Impingement, Fibromyalgia, TMJ, GERD, Severe Depression, VERY Large Cyst Right Ovary causing mild twisting, Small Cysts Left Ovary & 3 Large Cysts Uterus and Possible RA

Medications - MS-Contin, Cymbalta, Famotidine and currently Prednisone

skeye
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 3089
   Posted 10/8/2010 11:26 PM (GMT -6)   
Zac,

I believe the guy in Alabama is Dr. David Adkison MD. My coach really wanted me to go down to AL to see this guy, but I live in New England, so it wasn't really practical. But I was luck in that I found a fantastic surgeon in NYC, who is also rated as one of the top shoulder surgeons in the country/world.

I had 3 surgeries -- 2 on my left shoulder and one of my right. My first surgery was to repair a severely torn labrum (the cartilage lining the joint), which I injured swimming. I had complications after my first surgery & ended up re-injuring it & stretching out/destroying my ligaments to the point where they they no longer held the head of the humerus in the joint. So they had to go back in & retie all my ligaments & tighten the joint. Couple years later, I ended up doing the same thing to my right shoulder while swimming & thus had to have all of those ligaments repaired as well.

Recovery from shoulder surgery is not easy. My surgeon told me 9 mo recovery time, but I found that it really took 12 - 18 months before I started feeling half-way normal. Now, 4 years out from my last surgery, I'm doing great. My shoulders are stable & generally non-painful. However, I still do have to be careful. There are certain positions that I am not ever allowed to put my shoulders in, or it will tear all my ligaments. But those are essentially obscure positions & are not a problem in every day life.

I did not return to swimming after my final surgery, mostly because I could not. Despite being fixed, my shoulders just couldn't handle the strain. However, I am still able to do every day activities. I'm studying to be a veterinarian, and I work with large animals (which is very physically demanding) & other than some weakness, I have not had any problems thus far. Additionally, I life up to 80 lb dogs at work with little trouble.

Surgery isn't always the answer & it certainly isn't an easy fix, but if you're in enough pain, etc & less invasive tactics didn't help, then don't rule it out.

Skeye

Tulsa180
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 13
   Posted 10/8/2010 11:30 PM (GMT -6)   
thanks so much for the info skeye

Áthas
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 55
   Posted 10/9/2010 2:06 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Zac, what you wrote sounded a bit familliar to me. I had pain in my shoulders, mostly the left, from age 15 to age 24. Nobody ever found anything, but then I read about shoulder arm syndrome. The reason can be the upper spine, if it is slightly crooked, it can cause enormus pain in the shoulders. My swordfencing teacher told me, the reason could also be wrongly trained muscles. If your upper shoulder and back muscles are better and stronger than your lower shoulder and back muscles, apparently what can happen is that the upper muscles, then the arms are pulled up into the joint socket and the bones rub each other which hurts. I had done a lot of dancing, but once I started medieval sword fencing, the pain disappeared after a few weeks. You should maybe have that checked, whether you're maybe just training one group of muscles too much and the other one not enough. In that case, physiotherapy could do a lot.

Tulsa180
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 13
   Posted 10/9/2010 12:17 PM (GMT -6)   
wow, that was interesting, i have horrible posture, my upper spine bows out when i sit pretty bad. My lower back is very weak and my upper back, lats and rhomboids are very thick and were my favorite body parts to train, not to mention my shoulders were my least favorite to train...

Tulsa180
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 13
   Posted 10/9/2010 12:33 PM (GMT -6)   
i looked up shoulder arm syndrome and am having a hard time finding literature, is that the exact name?

Tulsa180
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 13
   Posted 10/9/2010 12:39 PM (GMT -6)   
i never even thought to mention this, but reading a lot lately and a lot of people were linking shoulder and back pain/

I have had problems with my back the whole time I have experienced shoulder pain, and the more i think about it the more they seem to have both started around the same time during and after lifting. I feel pain in my lower back a lot, I have tried making it stronger, sometimes swimming helps and even makes both shoulders and back feel better. My posture is terrible and people have always given me crap for it. My upper back feels tight regularly, and even the base of my neck in my spine, I feel tense and strained in those places a lot of the time.. I know I keep adding but with my entries and help from you guys I am going to do an analysis on my problems and considered solutions to show my doctor when I go in

thanks again for all the help everyone, this site is great

Áthas
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2010
Total Posts : 55
   Posted 10/10/2010 12:50 PM (GMT -6)   
Zac, I found one link here.

www.medsolution.de/en/Shoulder-Arm-Syndrome/Indikationen/Orthopaedics-/-sports-medicine/Shoulder-Arm-Syndrome.html

Found more links, but they're German so I guess you wouldn't understand them. But do ask your doctor about it!

Tulsa180
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 13
   Posted 10/10/2010 1:08 PM (GMT -6)   
i will thank you so much again
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