OT- Little Dog (POM) Question

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Retired Mom
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Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 1753
   Posted 5/22/2011 8:07 AM (GMT -6)   
I know this is WAY off topic, but I recently adopted a Pom from a breeder (more like rescued) to keep me company at home.  I took her to the vet the very next day and he said she was 3-4 years, had her last puppies 3-4 months ago, and had a positive test for heart worms.  The sorry breeder had shaved her right before I got there so I couldn't see what a mess she was in.  It's honestly terrible. 
 
Anyway, the vet gave her a ton of shots for everything and Doxyclicline as a treatment for heartworms (new type of treatment).  I also had to give her the heartworm preventative pill.  Well that was earlier this week and I had to take her back yesterday.  She will not eat...has had no BM in several days, is lethargic and was throwing up yesterday pretty bad.  They did another ton of tests and said she had something wrong with her liver and that they didn't know what it was, but gave her a shot to stop the vomiting and then more meds to start today, one hour before food....well she doesn't eat!  Still no B/M either.  She seems to "feel" a little bit better this morning, but not much and I know many of you are small dog owners who might be able to give me some advice.  I've spent WAY too much on this dog already and I'm furious!!!!  I wanted a companion to help me keep my mind off of the CP and other things and it is turning out to be a horribly expensive thing that just won't end.  She just wants to lay with me all day in my recliner and do nothing else.  I want to help her and I honestly believe the vet is wrong in her case.  She was "fine" when I got her and then "sick" the next day after all the vet care.
 
Any ideas HW family?
TLIF L5-S1/failed, Pituatary disorder w/HGH deficiency, Fibro, Failed Bladder Surgery & Nissen, GERD, OCPD, GAD, MDD, CFS, TMJ, Migraines, Pre-glaucomic, HBP, Idiopatic Reactive Hypoglycemia w/Diabetic reaction to HGH, Bi-lateral CTS (surgery related trigger finger), Edema, Tarsal Tunnel Syndrome, Peripheral Neuropathy, Plantar Fascitis, Tibular Tendionitis, Adult Onset Flat Feet & much more.....

suesueky
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 87
   Posted 5/22/2011 8:32 AM (GMT -6)   
RetiredMom (((((hugs)))))

Sorry to hear your little companion is unwell lovie. Has the vet given you some sort of supplement that you can give via a syringe to make sure they are getting some fluids and nutrition? My own dog a rottie was very ill last year we thought we were going to lose him, but we kept on with these supplements that the vet gave us and pulled him through. He was being sick, wetting himself and also had very loose watery poo aswell. At the time it was awful to watch, but he did pull through it. He has not been the same since but he is still enjoying himself. I cant give you any other advice lovie as I find it so hard to cope when my dog gets ill, just like you lovie. I really hope they get better soon and I am sure there will be plenty of other people who can give you some advice on here. Please keep us updated on how they are getting on and I will pray for them sweetie xxxxxxxxx
Suesueky

Disc degenerative disease, L3/4 board disc bulge, L4/5 board disc bulge with significant nerve root compression on right L5 nerve root and also DDD at L5/S1. I also have an enlarged uterus with fibroids and have been a sufferer of psoriasis now for about 8 years.

Screaming Eagle
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 5005
   Posted 5/22/2011 9:03 AM (GMT -6)   
Hello retiredmom!

Hey!....I'm thinking give Skeye a holler! I bet she knows!....see if you can send her an email. wink

I'm sure she will have a suggestion or two for you....at no charge! smilewinkgrin


If you cant find her email, I believe I have it, and can shoot one to her for you if needed.

Good luck..and congrats on the new family member,

SE wink
Moderator Chronic Pain Forum

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straydog
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Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 16304
   Posted 5/22/2011 9:39 AM (GMT -6)   
RM I am so sorry this has happened. Your story is very much similar to what I went thru. I took in a sttray full blooded golden retriever several yrs ago. I took him in for a check up and his heart worm test came back positive and like you I agreed to have him treated. The treatment was $500 and he had to stay with the vet for five days. The medicine made him very ill in fact I was afraid I was going to lose him I had heard if the treatment does not kill them the disease will. But all aside he pulled thru and we had some rough days. I was not aware they have a new treatment out for it, I am sure glad. The vet was shocked that he tested positive and had it retested to make sure because my boy appeared healthy. I have a feeling the original owner had him tested and did not want to spend the money to get the dog well. Jake was the best dog I have ever owned, he was my shadow and I had to have him put down almost 2 yrs ago. He was old and it was time, one of the hardest things I have ever done. I still miss him terribly and he was so happy to have a good home and someone good to him. he had been mistreated at some point. The first month I had Jake I was over over $1,000 for his shots, heart worm treatment and then had him neutered.

I know you don't want to keep spending money but you may want to consider a second opinion here. Have the dog retested for heart worms. Something to consider for your dog, is anytime they are not feeling well and not eating, the vet will give them a chicken & rice dog food because it is easy to digest. I make my dogs rice cooked in chicken broth instead of water when they have stomach issues & they love it. You can get it canned and try to get the little dog to eat no more than 2 tablespoons starting out. Is the dog drinking any water? Needs to be kept hydrated. If the dog is not eating & drinking then it will end up dying.

This is about all I can suggest to you. I really do feel for you and the dog.
Moderator Chronic Pain Forum

Jim1969
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Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 2042
   Posted 5/22/2011 12:58 PM (GMT -6)   
Never went through this with any of my dogs, but several years ago we had to take one in for some minor surgery to have a fatty growth removed from one of her paws. When we picked her up the vet warned us she would be a little groggy for a few days and have a touchy stomach too for a couple of days due to the medication and sedation. He suggested feeding her either extra lean hamburger, boiled, or boiled chicken breast.

Well when we got her home we forgot that she still had food in her bowl and she went over and sniffed at it but would not eat it, which was a good thing. Anyway we fixed he the boiled hamburger that evening and she ate it right down, and then the next day we gave her the chicken for breakfast and more hamburger for supper. After that she started feeling better and was back to eating normally.

One thing I do strongly suggest is that if you do get your dog to eat, do not give her very much to start. Just a small amount to see how she tolerates it, and then if she does OK give her another little bit a few hours later and then wait a good 8 hours or so before feeding her a third time.

Oh and if your dog is refusing to drink you can try using one of those medicine dosing syringes that you use to give infants medicine and fill it with water and gently squirt a little bit at a time in her mouth.
2 confirmed herniated lumbar discs. Spinal Arthritis. Spinal Stenosis, diabetic peripheral nueropathy.

momtofourangels
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Date Joined Apr 2010
Total Posts : 2261
   Posted 5/22/2011 5:00 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi RetiredeMom

I'm so sorry to hear that your little dog is so sick. I don't have any suggestions, but just wanted to let you know that I'm thinking about you and praying for your little dog. I sure hope the little one feels better really soon.

love and soft hugs
Loretta
Dx: osteoarthritis, bursitis in left hip, Osteoarthrits in right hip, compression fracture in thoracic spine due to falling on frozen ground March 2001 , ddd, spinal stenosis, bone spurs, osteoarthritis in spine, osteoarthritis in both knees
Meds: Fentanyl patch, oxycodone, otc: BenGay, Tylenol Arthritis on occasion

Chartreux
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 9664
   Posted 5/22/2011 5:55 PM (GMT -6)   
So very sorry about your dog, Skeye would be the best one to answer this, so
I hope you'll e-mail her,...and I hope your dog improves soon. Maybe take the last owner to
small claims court...please keep us posted on how your dog is doing, we do care...
hope things get better....
**********************************************
* So many dx's I could write a book* "It would be nice if we could use the edit button in real life"...
********>^..^<********>^..^<*******

Retired Mom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 1753
   Posted 5/22/2011 6:18 PM (GMT -6)   
Thank you all! I just emailed Skeye, but I don't know if she will accept an email from someone she doesn't know. The poor thing needs to go so badly and is so bloated and swollen in the abdomen.

Thank you all!
TLIF L5-S1/failed, Pituatary disorder w/HGH deficiency, Fibro, Failed Bladder Surgery & Nissen, GERD, OCPD, GAD, MDD, CFS, TMJ, Migraines, Pre-glaucomic, HBP, Idiopatic Reactive Hypoglycemia w/Diabetic reaction to HGH, Bi-lateral CTS (surgery related trigger finger), Edema, Tarsal Tunnel Syndrome, Peripheral Neuropathy, Plantar Fascitis, Tibular Tendionitis, Adult Onset Flat Feet & much more.....

Screaming Eagle
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 5005
   Posted 5/22/2011 7:42 PM (GMT -6)   
I was thinking Skeye should know who you are. If you put "HW Member" in the subject line, it should certainly catch her attention.

I will also send her an email, and see if she can take a peek at your post. Sorry to hear that your puppy is suffering.

SE wink
Moderator Chronic Pain Forum

Weekly Quote!

"Snowflakes are one of nature's most fragile things, but just look at what they can do when they stick together"

tmjpain
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 2024
   Posted 5/22/2011 8:39 PM (GMT -6)   

 

     I spoke to Skeye today and she is aware of retiredmom's questions and post.

      Skeye is also dealing with serious issues with one of her own dogs, so let's hope

      that both these dogs have good outcomes. I know how important pets can be

     when one is dealing with chronic pain. Myself, I have two cats.

  Suzane


Blessedx8
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 3193
   Posted 5/23/2011 12:58 AM (GMT -6)   
RM,
 
Just a quick note to let you know I'm sorry for your sweet doggy... I hope she feels better soon.  Please keep us updated on how she is doing....
 
Take care... --Tina

CRPSpatient
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Mar 2011
Total Posts : 1276
   Posted 5/23/2011 2:43 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi RetiredMom

I'm well out of practice, given that it's 3 1/2 years since I finished vet school and 3 years since I've worked but I'll try to help as much as I can. I'm sorry that you've been put in this position. The breeder sounds terribly irresponsible to say the least :(

Treating a dog with heartworm disease sure is rough on the poor dogs. Do you know if she was given a drug called melarsomine (the usual medication used for killing the adult heartworms) or just doxycycline on its own?

Is she eating anything at all yet? Straydog's suggestion of chicken and rice is an excellent one...when I used to do my rounds in emergency and intensive care, we would feed many of the sick dogs in hospital on small amount of chicken and rice. If you can get her to eat and drink, this should help with getting her bowels moving again. Once you can get her taking small amounts, you can even add a little bulk fibre (e.g. metamucil or benefiber) into her food.

I hope that gives you something to work with, and that you are both soon feeling a LOT better *hugs*

Laura
CRPS since 1999, diagnosed in 2005 and since spread to full body, spasms, dystonia & contractures, gastroparesis, orthostatic hypotension, bursitis, carpal tunnel syndrome.

On Oxycontin/Endone, Topamax, Mobic, Magnesium, Florinef, Somac, Cipramil. Have a spinal cord stimulator, intrathecal pump with baclofen & bupivacaine and doing physio.

Retired Mom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 1753
   Posted 5/23/2011 6:01 AM (GMT -6)   
Thank you ALL sooo much. Skeye did email me and had some very good information.

Laura, you a wonderful!!! My vet is soooooo anti-human food that he thinks everything will kill her. I know for sure this breeder is a horrible person. There is no way a reputable person would have animals living the way that he does. Some of them can be seen from a "private drive" that I "accidentally" drove up and he gave me the dog at his house trailer, away from the kennel, with a horribly shaved coat.....that he claimed he did a month before. There is NO WAY he did because the poor thing had to wear something on her back to keep it from sunburning when she was outside. Now, since just Monday, there is hair growing to cover the bald areas where the shaver hit her so many times. He lower back is the absolute worst.

I will surely try the chicken and rice. I know she wants to eat because she "wants" human food. I can tell by how she acts. She just won't eat any dog food, treats, or anything dog related. I know what he said he fed her, but I don't think he was accurate on that either. I did try a chicken and rice type food from the vet here.

She still has had no B/M and doesn't want water. I have had to use the dropper to give her water and she is still urinating some, but nothing else. She is, however, moving around alot better today....I just don't know what to do. I can't keep spending money like this for a dog that I have had a week and I can't keep taking her to a vet that is not helping her. She was a lively thing when I got her.

My husband suggests another vet.

One more question......can she have an egg (cooked without oil, of course)? If so, I know she will eat that.

Thanks so much.......everyone!
TLIF L5-S1/failed, Pituatary disorder w/HGH deficiency, Fibro, Failed Bladder Surgery & Nissen, GERD, OCPD, GAD, MDD, CFS, TMJ, Migraines, Pre-glaucomic, HBP, Idiopatic Reactive Hypoglycemia w/Diabetic reaction to HGH, Bi-lateral CTS (surgery related trigger finger), Edema, Tarsal Tunnel Syndrome, Peripheral Neuropathy, Plantar Fascitis, Tibular Tendionitis, Adult Onset Flat Feet & much more.....

CRPSpatient
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Mar 2011
Total Posts : 1276
   Posted 5/23/2011 6:33 AM (GMT -6)   
Right now, I wouldn't really worry about what you feed her - you just want to get her eating, and hopefully once she starts eating again she will feel a little better and you'll be able to get her onto dog food. If she's interested in the chicken/rice, then try adding a little water to it. Keep it nice and moist - she needs to be getting fluids in. Egg is just fine

If you're not happy with the vet you've taken her to, then definitely go to another vet.

The fact that the breeder gave you the dog away from his kennels worries me - that screams at me that there was something there he didn't want you to see.
CRPS since 1999, diagnosed in 2005 and since spread to full body, spasms, dystonia & contractures, gastroparesis, orthostatic hypotension, bursitis, carpal tunnel syndrome.

On Oxycontin/Endone, Topamax, Mobic, Magnesium, Florinef, Somac, Cipramil. Have a spinal cord stimulator, intrathecal pump with baclofen & bupivacaine and doing physio.

Chartreux
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 9664
   Posted 5/23/2011 7:51 AM (GMT -6)   
I will hope things are getting better for your dog today....
Prayers and well wishes...
**********************************************
* So many dx's I could write a book* "It would be nice if we could use the edit button in real life"...
********>^..^<********>^..^<*******

grandmaroses
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2011
Total Posts : 1355
   Posted 5/23/2011 9:31 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi RetiredMom,

I have 3 poms and I have had them for years the oldest is 13 youngest 6. When we got the youngest he had already had the heartworm shot but the vet told me the other 2 might not survive the reaction of the shot so we decided against it. My heart goes out to you as poms are so loving I don't like to think about the few times mine have been sick. I agree with everyone about worry about correcting their diet later just getting them eating and drinking something is so important. I really hope yours recovers quickly and fully.
Take care
Rose



Insulin Dependant Diabetic, Fibromyalgia, Gerd, IBS, Sleep Apnea, COPD, Spondylolistesis, Diabetic Neuropathy, Fatty Liver, High Cholesterol

Jim1969
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 2042
   Posted 5/23/2011 10:54 AM (GMT -6)   
I really hope you dog pulls through.... and I agree 210% on getting the dog to eat. Who cares whether it is "people" food or "dog" food. At this point food is what is important.

When you get a minute a hope you call animal control, the ASPCA or whatever in the area that this breeder lives in and report him/her. Just be honest in what you have seen and suspect and hopefully they will get an investigation going and God willing they can rescue any animals still there and send this person to jail for the neglect and possible abuse they have inflicted upon those poor creatures.

Retired Mom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 1753
   Posted 5/23/2011 7:25 PM (GMT -6)   
Update:

I called the vet's office again today and the main guy was in. I was naturally unhappy with what was done on Saturday and they know me from my other dogs that I have taken to them for years. So the vet told me not to give her any meds whatsoever and to bring her back up there for him to look at quickly. He also had me bring the food the other guy gave me and the meds the other guy gave me back. I did and they gave me something to help her get some vitamins and sugars into her body. You give it to them three times a day and she actually likes it!! It's only a little, but it started her on the right path....at least I think so. He also gave me a different dog food for really sick dogs. He said the liver damage was secondary to the heart worms and that she was much older than he had thought....maybe 7-8 years. He also said she was too sick to treat for any condition until her liver was better and she wasn't anemic (?sp) anymore. She did eat about a half of the little (and I do mean little) can of food earlier today and lick the syrup mixture. I'm going to give her a little more in a few minutes before she goes to bed for the night. Also, I fixed her another egg and she ate a little of that.

Ok.....so about the breeder.....my sister called to tell me that her co-worker's wife raises poms and that she had called her on my behalf. According to the lady, she was offered this dog by that breeder a while back and refused the dog because she knew it would not live and might infect the other dogs she breeds. She said the place was supposed to have been closed for giardia (?sp) infection (my dog did not have that one) and that this dog is 8-9 years old. She also said the dogs were terribly mistreated and have never experienced an open environment and that she thought the dog was in shock. She gave me several ideas and more information than I ever expected about this horrible man. I made sure the vet was well aware of the situation. He did tell me that I had rescued a very, very sick dog and was lied to in every way. I told him that I may never treat her for heartworms again, but that I am going to keep her and try my best to do what's right for her. She is so loving.

This afternoon, she started drinking water on her own again and even tried to play for a few minutes. She was too tired then to do anything else, so we'll see what happens tomorrow. I so hope she eats enough to have a B/M so she can start to get well. I kind of feel like a kindred spirit here because she is "damaged goods" so to speak and she is so kind and loving. If she doesn't make it, I can at least feel like I have done everything possible to make her life happy.

Thank you all again, my friends. You guys are the best!
TLIF L5-S1/failed, Pituatary disorder w/HGH deficiency, Fibro, Failed Bladder Surgery & Nissen, GERD, OCPD, GAD, MDD, CFS, TMJ, Migraines, Pre-glaucomic, HBP, Idiopatic Reactive Hypoglycemia w/Diabetic reaction to HGH, Bi-lateral CTS (surgery related trigger finger), Edema, Tarsal Tunnel Syndrome, Peripheral Neuropathy, Plantar Fascitis, Tibular Tendionitis, Adult Onset Flat Feet & much more.....

momtofourangels
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2010
Total Posts : 2261
   Posted 5/23/2011 9:28 PM (GMT -6)   
It makes me so angry to hear what the breeder is doing to the dogs there. I sure hope that the little one feels better really soon. Poor little girl. I'm so sorry that she's having to go thru so much. I'll be praying for her. You take care of yourself too. I'll be thinking about you and her.

love and soft hugs my friend
Loretta
Dx: osteoarthritis, bursitis in left hip, Osteoarthrits in right hip, compression fracture in thoracic spine due to falling on frozen ground March 2001 , ddd, spinal stenosis, bone spurs, osteoarthritis in spine, osteoarthritis in both knees
Meds: Fentanyl patch, oxycodone, otc: BenGay, Tylenol Arthritis on occasion

CRPSpatient
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Mar 2011
Total Posts : 1276
   Posted 5/24/2011 6:31 AM (GMT -6)   
Mom, you are such a wonderful person to help this poor little dog as you are, and I'm so glad that you've got onto a vet who didn't get his degree out of a Weeties packet.

That disgusts me beyond words about the breeder. There are some people around who ought not be allowed to own a pet rock, never mind a living, breathing animal.
CRPS since 1999, diagnosed in 2005 and since spread to full body, spasms, dystonia & contractures, gastroparesis, orthostatic hypotension, bursitis, carpal tunnel syndrome.

On Oxycontin/Endone, Topamax, Mobic, Magnesium, Florinef, Somac, Cipramil. Have a spinal cord stimulator, intrathecal pump with baclofen & bupivacaine and doing physio.

ekkorose
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 329
   Posted 5/24/2011 6:58 AM (GMT -6)   
Mom,

I am hoping the vet told you that you need to keep her VERY quiet while the meds for the heartworms work their magic. If she gets too active a worm or egg can lodge and give her a fatel clot.

For the BM thing, have you tried a teaspoon or two of veggie oil? It sounds strange but its an old trick that works every time. It is kinda like us eating castro or mineral oil when we get backed up.

Take care!

Sarrah
DX - Spinal stenosis - C 4-T1. Bulging disks C 3-T1
Severe pelvic adhesions from 4 surgeries *hysterectomy, removal of ovaries, ect...meds taken 0 Kadian 20mg, percocet for breakthrough. Compounded Cream.

Chartreux
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 9664
   Posted 5/24/2011 7:21 AM (GMT -6)   
Hope you lil pom is doing better this morning....
well wishes...
**********************************************
* So many dx's I could write a book* "It would be nice if we could use the edit button in real life"...
********>^..^<********>^..^<*******

straydog
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 16304
   Posted 5/24/2011 9:22 AM (GMT -6)   
RM, I do hope you plan to turn this breeder in for the condition of where they are breeding these dogs. You can file a complaint against this person and I really hope you will. It is our duty to protect these little girls & guys. My daughter bought a puppy mill dog who had parvo and spent a small fortune in one week of ownership. She did turn the lady in and an investigation was done and she was shut down. The pup had a 50/50 chance of survival for treatment and he pulled thru but let me tell you, he had many problems develop over the years.

You may also want to see if your little girl will eat a boiled egg or even a scrambled egg. My two heathens here get boiled eggs from time to time as a treat and they go nuts when they see an egg come out of the refrigerator, lol.

I hope she gets better and soon. And yes, do keep her quiet and don't get her to playing. When Jake was being treated for heartworms at the vet, he got so sick from the treatment that I cried every time I saw him and the vet said I was upsetting him and asked me not to come for a couple of days. Well, I sure did not want to upset him and it was hard staying away but I did. He was one sick little boy with the treatment and it took a bit to get him back on his feet. it affected his breathing and I had to take him back for a steroid shot a few days after I brought him home and it scared me to death. I was really afraid I would lose him him but he really did well it just took time. Keep us posted.
Moderator Chronic Pain Forum

Retired Mom
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Date Joined Feb 2010
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   Posted 5/24/2011 8:04 PM (GMT -6)   
:-)  Thank you all so much for your kind words of encouragement and advice.  Maggie has finally resumed her "normal" body functions and is feeling sooooo much better.  The vet cannot continue heartworm treatment at this time because her liver is so affected.  He also wants to wait for any new meds or anything else until she is healthier.  She still eats and drinks very little in my view, but I'm sure it is a great deal for her. 
 
I gave her a warm bath today and then she went out with my daughter.  She "went" immediately and several times thereafter and then started jumping up and down.  She's been on the uphill ever since.  I am so happy that she is feeling better.  I know we are not out of the woods, but I'm so pleased that she is better.  I feel better knowing she has a chance.
 
I think I have done all I can here about the breeder.  They are "shut down" for all intents and purposes.  We live in such a small town that reporting to the vet takes care of the "needed" things.  He gets involved in the larger animals too (like the horses that were so sick looking) and takes the initiative to do the right thing.  I know he was instrumental in helping a really sick horse that I reported about 10 years ago.  That was my only report before and I'm not even sure if they were able to save the poor thing, but at least something was done and the owners were prosecuted. 
 
Again, thank you all for your advice for poor Maggie and I have used so much of it that you guys have helped her pull through.  I knew you would be there when I needed you and, as always, you were! 
 
I can't thank you enough!
 
TLIF L5-S1/failed, Pituatary disorder w/HGH deficiency, Fibro, Failed Bladder Surgery & Nissen, GERD, OCPD, GAD, MDD, CFS, TMJ, Migraines, Pre-glaucomic, HBP, Idiopatic Reactive Hypoglycemia w/Diabetic reaction to HGH, Bi-lateral CTS (surgery related trigger finger), Edema, Tarsal Tunnel Syndrome, Peripheral Neuropathy, Plantar Fascitis, Tibular Tendionitis, Adult Onset Flat Feet & much more.....

billyf27
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2010
Total Posts : 38
   Posted 5/25/2011 4:34 AM (GMT -6)   
A dog will be in better health and live longer with natural food sold at stores like Cutters Mills. Check out reviews of all kinds. It will surprise you what they put in some food.
 
 
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