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Emotional support dog for chronic pain? In apartment

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jayce
Regular Member
Joined : Nov 2007
Posts : 445
Posted 11/29/2016 3:21 PM (GMT -6)
Hi, I'm wondering if anyone's dr has helped them with securing a letter for an emotional support dog in an apartment building that doesn't allow them. Does it qualify as a reason. I know that the pet is an invaluable source of comfort.
If so what are the steps needed.

Thanks
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pmdancer
Regular Member
Joined : Aug 2016
Posts : 71
Posted 11/29/2016 3:39 PM (GMT -6)
I wish you well, any pet can be a wonderful emotional part of a CP person's support system.

Years ago exceptions were made in some cases to allow support dogs to reside in non-pet friendly residences. These days even with a Drs. letter and an attorney it is pretty much impossible to circumvent the rules. A fully qualified & registered service dog, yes. An emotional support or therapy dog, no.

I had a psychiatrist write a letter & and an atty challenge the rules in court and I lost. This was earlier this year.

Hope you have better luck than I did.
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pitmom
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Joined : Jan 2015
Posts : 2830
Posted 11/29/2016 3:39 PM (GMT -6)
If you live in the United States, service dogs, including Emotional Support Animals are covered under the Fair Housing Act. If you google the Act, there should be a sample letter that you can print out. It's 'fill in the blank' format for your doctor to fill out.

Please keep in mind that service animals are not 'bullet proof'. Failure to clean up after them or keep them under control, including excessive barking, can be causes that your landlord can use to force you to replace the dog/animal.

Service dogs can be any breed and any size. It has been proven in more than one study that smaller dogs (35 lbs or less) are more aggressive than larger dogs. If your landlord gives you a hard time about the breed or size of dog, having researched this ahead of time can go a long way in preventing problems over this point. I printed out 2 different studies on the subject and provided both to my landlord.

Some shelters provide their adoptable dogs with additional training to make them more socialized and prime candidates for becoming service animals. There is no need to register an emotional support animal with any service dog organization. If your dog needs to go with you into public spaces, you may purchase a vest that indicates the dog as a service animal. My e.s.a. stays in my home and only goes out 'in public' when I am walking her so I do not have a vest for her to wear.

No one can ask you what your disability is, nor can they ask you to 'make the dog perform' any service related tasks.
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pmdancer
Regular Member
Joined : Aug 2016
Posts : 71
Posted 11/29/2016 3:50 PM (GMT -6)
There is a very clear line between a service and therapy or support dog. Due to abuse it is very difficult today to justify a support or therapy animal as a required companion when it is against posted regulations.

Do your research before getting your hopes up. Service dogs are highly and specifically trained, they are tested and registered. Your local Humane Society might be a good place to start an enquiry.
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(Seashell)
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Joined : Dec 2012
Posts : 1080
Posted 11/30/2016 12:54 AM (GMT -6)
I live in Portland, Oregon which is a mecca for dogs. Dogs are allowed wide latitude in public and private buildings - even non-service dogs.

I do have a registered service dog, Molly. She is able to detect when I am looming close to an Adrenal Crisis.

I know people who have emotional support dogs and who live in both pet friendly and non-pet friendly apartment complexes.

For information, there is no better web site than the "US Service Dog Registry - Emotional Support and Service dogs." This site will likely answer any question that you have. It is incredibly detailed and informative with full explanations on both emotional support and service dogs. I used this site in order to learn and understand my legal rights in having an acknowledged service dog. I do not think that there is a single question that this site does not cover and address.

www.usdogregistry.org

Also, an additional site that I have found most helpful

www.registryservicedogs.com

Molly is my true soul mate. Her companionship gives me immense comfort. Chronic fragile health has changed the landscape of my life. My life has few resemblances to a "normal" life. Relating to and conversing with people has become more and more difficult for me. I tire of trying to fit in. I would much rather be with animals than humans.

Molly's presence in my life is life-sustaining. I love this little dog with every fiber of my being and am constantly in awe of her loyalty and devotion. The bond between us one to be cherished.

Best wishes in securing your apartment's approval of your emotional support animal,
- Karen -
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jayce
Regular Member
Joined : Nov 2007
Posts : 445
Posted 11/30/2016 6:46 AM (GMT -6)
Thank you all for your advise..
I will do the research you suggested Sea Shell.
I understand people that don't want to live around a dog,
But it is very limiting for those who need one.
I am very mindful of my girl, and she's used to apartment life it wouldn't be like she was suddenly shut in.

Pit mom I thought I read somewhere that you need to disclose your emotional disability. I will find out.

Wish me luck. There are very few places to live with your emotional support dog.
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Mercy&Grace
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Joined : Jun 2013
Posts : 1910
Posted 11/30/2016 2:36 PM (GMT -6)
If the need of a Service Dog or Support Animal is not apparent, the owner can ask for a letter from your doctor. The services the animal provides has to have a direct link to your disability.

Service Animals and Support Animals are exept from Pet Deposits. But, if the animal destroys property, you are responsible for paying it. You must also keep control of the animal at all times, keep them updated on their shots, etc.
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Tirzah
Veteran Member
Joined : Jul 2008
Posts : 2323
Posted 11/30/2016 5:40 PM (GMT -6)
To qualify as an Emotional Support Animal in some states (including Illinois), the animal must have received specific training to provide assistance with a particular task. For example, it behaves in a consistent manner to calm its owner down when s/he starts having a panic attack or begins having PTSD flashbacks.

Your local realtor or member of your state's bar would be able to tell you about the rights & requirements in your state.
Here's a link about federal law I've found helpful:

www.americanbar.org/content/newsletter/publications/gp_solo_magazine_home/gp_solo_magazine_index/servicesupportanimals.html
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Mercy&Grace
Veteran Member
Joined : Jun 2013
Posts : 1910
Posted 11/30/2016 6:44 PM (GMT -6)
Reasonable Accommodations Under the Fair Housing Act:-
portal.hud.gov/hudportal/HUD?src=/program_offices/fair_housing_equal_opp/ReasonableAccommodations15

Post Edited (Mercy&Grace) : 12/3/2016 6:39:50 PM (GMT-7)

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ImStrongerThanPain
New Member
Joined : Apr 2015
Posts : 19
Posted 12/3/2016 10:41 AM (GMT -6)
Is the dog you have trained as a service dog? It sounds like you have a pet that makes you feel better rather than an actual trained service animal. If so, you're one of those people mentioned in multiple posts as somebody who is trying to get around the rules and laws that exist, thus making it harder for the people who have trained service animals. It's the same thing as the people who try and get around the rules for pain meds, thus making it harder for those of us who stick to the rules to get the relief we need.

I support the fact an animal can help with chronic pain, though a dog is a tough choice for me to understand since they require regular walks for exercise and to go to the bathroom, but pain absolutely does not stick to a regular schedule. I of course realize there are innumerable sources for pain, but I can't think of a single one that wouldn't interfere with a dog's regular need for walks.
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pitmom
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Joined : Jan 2015
Posts : 2830
Posted 12/3/2016 5:29 PM (GMT -6)
As a matter of fact, it was my chiropractor that suggested I get a dog. He felt it would help me keep active as the more sedentary my life became from chronic pain, the more spinal problems I experienced.

Having my E.S.A. has helped me in many areas of my life. I get more exersize, I'm not as lonely, her need for a schedule gave my life a schedule, I get dressed every day, I feel safer, I'm more likely to have conversations with others I meet when I am out with her...the list could go on and on.

My dog is socialized but is not 'trained' to the level of Service Dog.

Any animal can become an E.S.A. For some, a cat or guinea pig or bird would fill the bill. Since I already had cats and they didn't need the level of attention that a dog would need, the obvious choice for me was getting a dog. It has worked out very well for me. Smaller breeds can be trained to use a litter box if the person isn't always able to get them out to 'do their business'. There are long handled 'pooper scoopers' if someone has difficulty bending to clean up after a dog. There are also services that will come out and clean it up for you, for a fee. I see no reason why a chronic pain person shouldn't get a dog if that is the service animal of their choosing.
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Mercy&Grace
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Joined : Jun 2013
Posts : 1910
Posted 12/3/2016 7:46 PM (GMT -6)
I have one Service Dog for many years that was a Black Lab. He helped me get up when I fell. He helped with my balance. He alerted me to when things were hot and I would burn myself. He would also alert me before my pain was going to go to a level that made me fall and before my foot or leg became numb and I couldn't walk.

A Service Animal and an Emotional Support Animal are not the same thing. But, when it comes to Housing, they are treated the same.
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(Seashell)
Veteran Member
Joined : Dec 2012
Posts : 1080
Posted 12/3/2016 8:23 PM (GMT -6)
Legal accommodations for emotional support animals are growing as the need for them is increasing. Veterans returning from tours of duty in Iraq, as one example, of a growing population of individuals who are benefiting from emotional support animals.

I urge anyone who is considering an emotional support animal to visit the web site that I listed above in my earlier post.

www.usdogregistry.org

There is not a single question that this site does not cover on both registered service animals and emotional support animals.

I have a registered service dog named Molly. She is a tea-cup Maltese. Adorable and adoring. Dog's heightened olfactory sense is a well-known phenomenon. In my case, Molly is able to detect when I am spiraling toward an Addisonian crisis. She is able to smell the change in my serum blood sugar and cortisol and aldosterone - cortisol and aldosterone being a life-essential hormones. Molly's innate ability is similar to that of dogs detecting cascading blood sugar and insulin levels in individuals with Type 1 diabetes.

For me, my service dog - Molly - gives me the impetus to keep moving. Chronic pain often leads to less physical activity. Molly encourages me to maintain the mobility that I have and to continue walking, despite severe bone pain. She playfully nudges at me, wanting to go outside for a walk. "Let's go . . let's go," is the obvious communication that she is projecting. And, truth be told, I usually feel better for the effort.

Most importantly, Molly's presence has reduced my isolation and loneliness. People invariably come up to me, asking me about her because she is so cute and appealing. Molly is a tea-cup Maltese, a 6-pound puff of white fur with jet black eyes and an engaging personality. On days that I am more debilitated, she is content with simply being with me by my side. She is my constant companion and my best friend. I love Molly with every fiber of my being. I admire and respect her loyalty and devotion toward me.

I have tremendous respect for emotional support animals. I think that they are as essential as service animals.

If you want/need an emotional support animal, please research the two sites that I listed in my earlier post above. The movement is toward more legal legitimatization of emotional support animals. Be aware, that legal protections vary from state to state. I live in Oregon which has the benefit of being supportive of the legal rights of service and emotional support animals.

I give thanks every day for Molly's presence in my life. I am a better person because of Molly. I am willing to forage ahead in this broken body of mine because of her. Molly may be tiny but she yields a large impact on my life and my life's quality.
- Karen -
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pitmom
Veteran Member
Joined : Jan 2015
Posts : 2830
Posted 12/3/2016 8:24 PM (GMT -6)
Just need to get this off my chest...I resent being referred to as "someone that is trying to get around the rules and laws that exist, thus making it harder for the people who have trained service animals." and "It's the same thing as the people who try and get around the rules for pain meds..."

The Fair Housing Act...a Federally recognized set of rules...allows for Emotional Support Animals. To suggest that I am trying to get around the rules is rediculous. My E.S.A. is just as crucial to me as a seeing eye dog is for a blind person. I have tried several anti depressant medications but had to discontinue them because of side effects. My E.S.A. IS my medication!

Having her has reduced my need for pain medication as well.

I've been coming onto Healingwell in both the chronic pain forum and the depression forum for almost a year and do not recall seeing 'multiple posts' on this subject. What I have seen are people trying to lift people out of their misery, not create more.
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Mercy&Grace
Veteran Member
Joined : Jun 2013
Posts : 1910
Posted 12/3/2016 8:43 PM (GMT -6)
Unfortunately, there are a lot of people that try and pass their pets off as Service Animals or Assistance Animals. More and more owners are adopting a No Pets Policy for liability and financial reasons. There have been cases where people have gotten letters from the internet stating their dog is a Service Animals or Assistance Animal. If a letter is requested and it is not from a doctor in the area, this is one of the reasons it may not be accepted.

Service Animals or Assistance Animal Laws are abused like any other laws, unfortunately.
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jayce
Regular Member
Joined : Nov 2007
Posts : 445
Posted 12/4/2016 7:08 AM (GMT -6)
I'm Stronger Than Pain,

I'm sure there are many instances of chronic pain that would not interfere with the ability to properly care for an emotional service dog. Hopefully many of us are able to get around enough to take a short walk. Or maybe everyone doesn't live alone and has help with their ESA . In the case of chronic face pain it's possible to get out, and better to do so as in many cases of pain. It's the anxiety and depression that chronic pain causes that is often helped by an ESA that make it an important part of treatment for some of us.

Thanks
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(Seashell)
Veteran Member
Joined : Dec 2012
Posts : 1080
Posted 12/4/2016 8:19 AM (GMT -6)
Wow . . . I cannot believe the personal attacks and lashing out that I am reading here towards those who have or who are contemplating an emotional support animal.

Get real. Pit Mom and others are not trying to game the system. The needs for emotional support animals are real and the inherent value derived in sharing one's life with an animal in more authentic than any relationship with a human.

Pit Mom, I am disheartened by the posts written in attack of you.

There are several individuals in my condominium building (a 90 unit high rise in the center of Portland, a high-end residence) who deplore animals. There was a recent community forum where the pro non-dog owners made clear their discontent of the rules and regulations that allow dogs in the building. Mind you, all of the 6 dogs in residence in this building are small, well-mannered, meticulously groomed dogs who have passed the Canine Good Citizenship Award. There is not an unruly dog in residence here. The dogs are better mannered than the majority of the residents. But still, the backlash against the 6 dogs who live here reigned.

I sat with Molly (a registered service dog) through the entire meeting. I chose not to leave. Molly has a legal right to be with me and I have a right to be comfortable living in the condominium that I purchased and call my home.

As for the argument that pain precludes taking care of a dog, I challenge this notion with the full force of my words. I live with necrosis of my femoral heads and shafts of my femurs, necrosis of both jaws and right shoulder thanks to prolonged use of prednisone. I am on a hefty cocktail of dilaudid and fentanyl - 220 mg morphine per day equivalent. I know chronic pain.

Molly gives me the impetus and the loving motivation to keep on keeping on. I care for her as I would my own child. Her needs motivate to maintain my mobility.

I have a small patio and have a unique grass/sod patch that is delivered once a week, so that Molly can relieve herself outside on the times that I cannot get her downstairs and outside. The grass and sod patch is called "Fresh Patch" and is commercially available. Just go to the website "Fresh Patch" to inquire.

The Fresh Patch is a win-win. Molly is aging and needs to go to the bathroom more frequently, just as aging people need to use the restroom more frequently. The Fresh Patch meets Molly's needs as well as my own. The Fresh Patch is delivered once each week to my home by FedEX.

There are licensed and bonded pet walkers in my neighborhood. Rove.com is an internet service that connects owners to licensed and bonded pet walkers in their neighborhood, across the country. I have not used Rove.com but have heard positive feedback of its service.

My condominium houses several elderly residents (90 + years of age) who have cats. They each use a bonded pet walker to provide assistance for their cats in performing daily care tasks that have become challenging as they age (change the litter box, replace the litter, take the cat to the vet). There is no reason that growing older should preclude owning a companion pet.

I will own a pet (dog or cat) until my last breath on this earth. There is no bond greater than the genuine bond with a companion pet.

Personally, I would rather spend time with dogs/cats than with people.

The hostility show to Pit Mom and others who are contemplating the value of a companion pet is troubling.

I gather those who are negatively commenting do not own a dog/cat or other companion animal and are void of the benefits of pet ownership. No wonder your hearts are bitterly cold and uncaring.

Yep . . . I am an animal lover. I am a practicing vegan. I will not eat anything that once had two eyes.

Animals not here for humans to gawk at in zoos. Animals are not here for humans to brutally kill in mass slaughter houses . . . chickens held upside down by their spindly legs while their throats are slashed, cows that are electrocuted, fish that are netted and effectively drowned. Animals are sentinent beings. Animals deserve respect and care from their human counterparts.

Enjoy your big hamburger today. Give thought to the cow that gave its life so that you can fill your stomach.

I will prefer my vegan lifestyle choice. And I will give thanks to God/Higher Power each day for bringing Molly into my life. Her little presence has a large impact on my life. Molly fills the voids of hurt and pain inflicted on my by human relationships - my own mother, among them. Molly watches over me, protecting me from a life-threatening Adrenal crisis. She brings me joy and comfort. Her little heartbeat next to me. I only hope that I succumb before Molly.

For those of you who find exception to owning a companion pet, you are missing on one of life's most pure joys and relationships. The relationship and bond between a human and pet is an immensely positive and powerful bond.

- Karen + Molly maltese ^..^__/
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ImStrongerThanPain
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Joined : Apr 2015
Posts : 19
Posted 12/4/2016 11:00 PM (GMT -6)
This is obviously a polarizing subject for some people, with strong feelings on both sides. Personally, my pain is too severe and the effects of my medical problems are too limiting to my mobility to want to, never mind be able to care for a dog's regular needs. However, I recognize the benefits of being forced to get up and move around in order to keep a schedule like that, as well as the benefits an animal can provide in terms of it being a distraction technique. My cats over the years have certainly helped me. Of course they've also caused problems such as my right hand/wrist being a mess from falls they caused which I won't bother to go into details about. Suffice it to say animals can mess with your balance, footing, etc.!

Here's where I'll play devil's advocate however: If a building has a no pets policy, why would a person with an animal want to live there? I can think of some reasons such as proximity to work, doctor, family, etc., but these are matters of convenience, not survival, and the fact is you may be causing problems for people that purposefully chose the building because of the no pet policy, and you're putting your own convenience ahead of their needs. That's a key thing here: There is nobody on this planet that must live at a particular address in order for themselves and their service/ES animal to survive. The only reasons an animal owner could cite for living at a particular address are for convenience, not because they have to. However, a person could very validly cite the rules of a particular building as a reason they choose TO live there and NOT somewhere else. For instance, a person who has severe allergies to animals. Just as a person with small children may choose not to live somewhere with a pool because it's a legitimate threat to health and welfare.

Consider this scenario that would cause a severely allergic person big problems:
A person with a service/ES dog takes it outside through a shared entry/exit door. That person is guaranteed to have dog residue (hair, oils, etc.) on their hands, and the dog is guaranteed to leave some behind every time it walks through as well. The person leaves that residue on the shared door handle, which the allergic person touches on their way out/in. The allergic person then touches their face and rubs their eyes for whatever reason. They then break out in hives and in general have a horrible experience because of it (possibly requiring a trip to the ER for anaphylactic shock). Does the animal owner bear no responsibility for this because it's a service/ES animal? Or do they bear the responsibility as responsible animal owners to house them in such a way that they don't bother people who have purposefully kept themselves away from animals at their home for very good reasons, medical reasons just as valid if not more so than owning a service/ES animal? Then consider, does one person's convenience out weigh another person's dislike of dogs, or their desire never to hear a dog bark at 3 am (and don't try to say a trained dog doesn't bark!), or how about 10 pm, but then what about 1 pm?

So back to the main point: if you own an animal, but choose to live in a particular location for your own convenience that has a no pets policy, you can't expect strangers to simply say "OK I feel bad you have this medical issue for which an animal makes your life easier, so I'll sacrifice my own wants and needs for your convenience." That's an entitlement mentality to which none of us that are disabled should ever subscribe. Yeah it sucks to be disabled, but that doesn't give us the right to affect the daily lives of others.

Ok I'm done playing devil's advocate. :-)

P.S. I won't get into the whole what you eat or believe topic since I'm a Satanist who loves delicious yummy bloody meat!
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(Seashell)
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Joined : Dec 2012
Posts : 1080
Posted 12/5/2016 1:35 AM (GMT -6)
Your citing of a person suffering from an allergic reaction to a dog by touching the door handle that was handled by pet owner has little credibility.

People with allergies to pets are allergic to pet dander. Dander is natural sloughing of skin cells. In dogs with an undercoat, the dander remains in the layers of the coat/hair and is not as easily dispersed as in a hypoallergenic dog which has no undercoat. Dander is the same sloughing of skin cells that occurs with humans, among others.

It requires significant exposure of an allergen to cause an severe allergic reaction. Touching a door handle previously handled by a pet owner is not going to lend to an allergic reaction, let alone anaphalytic shock.

You cite the door handles of an apartment building contaminated by pet dander. It takes significant exposure of an allergen to cause symptoms. There is ample air circulation in an apartment building that a dog walking through a lobby is not going to cause an allergic reaction in a person who is sensitive to pet dander. A person with an allergy is going to need to nuzzle up to a dog/cat and have close and intimate contact with an offending pet.

If the example you cite of door handles in apartments were accurate, then we would be seeing pet danger allergenic reactions in other public venues where dogs are present. This, clearly, is not the case. We do not bear witness to massive public allergic reactions to pet danger. Again, a person with an allergic response needs to have intimate and close contact with a pet or must be in an environment where there is extensive accumulation of pet danger (ex. a home with multiple pets where a person with an allergy comes for a weekend stay as a house-guest).

I do not see clear reasoning in your devil's advocate position. I do gather that you are not fond of pets. And that is A-OK. But the fact that you do not like pets need not interfere with my close association with pets, now with someone else who would like the comfort and healing of an emotional support pet or a trained service animal.

Veterans returning from Iraq/Iran with severe PTSD are being provided with emotional support animals to calm anxiety and restlessness, in a program provided by the VA.

I live in a condominium. The rules and regulations allow for pet ownership of up to 2 pets. No pet can weigh more than 65 pounds. No breeds are excluded. Pets can include dogs, cats, birds, fish, reptiles. I am not subjecting anyone in this building to a dog without consideration of others' needs, although there is a vocal minority of individuals who harbor ill-will toward the pets who do reside here.

If someone in this condominium wants a living environment that caters to their every single whim, then they need to live in a single dwelling detached home.

Condominium and apartment living is communal living. It requires being open to diversity and inclusion.

When I first had Molly, the apartment that I was living in was a no-pet building. The building made appropriate accommodations to meet my needs and Molly's needs . . . as well as the needs of the other residents. Molly's presence was so positive a contribution to the apartment community, that the building adopted its rules and regulations to become a pet friendly building. Other residents became availing of pet ownership, without the requisite of having a service dog.

I can tell that you have had a negative experience with living with your cats. I bet your cats would also comment that the relationship was not conducive to them, as well.

I often judge the character of a person by how well they care for his/her pet. A person who is indifferent to a pet, who treats a pet as an object, who gives scant attention or care to his/her pet shows their "true colors."

We will have to agree to disagree on the true value of pet ownership.

I am a better person for having Molly in my life - both physically and psychologically. I owe her with my life.

The book by Dr. Seuss, "Horton the Hoo," is an adept analogy of the deep commitment and love that Molly affords me. Molly is faithful to me 100%. Molly is the one constant in my life that I can depend on. To minimize the significant of a companion pet is to be blind to the harshness that humans can exact on one another. I have been deeply hurt by people in my life, including my own family. Not so with pets. The relationship with a pet is genuine with no false fronts.

You can continue to life you life without pets. You can savor your meat and stuffing yourself until you are full. I do not see how one can boast about eating meat. The meat and poultry industry is appalling in their practices. Chickens that are fed growth hormones and that mature so quickly that they cannot stand on their legs because their breasts are so enlarged. Do you really think that the meat that you eat, added with growth hormones, is good for your well-being?

Little wonder that Americans are facing increasing illness and disease. Our food supply - the growing of wheat, the raising of cattle for meat and milk and cheese - is increasingly affected by insecticides, antibiotics, and added growth hormone. Girls are entering puberty at earlier and earlier ages, with evidence pointing to hormones added in the food chain. Metabolic syndrome and type II diabetes is on a steep rise. Obesity. Heart disease and colon cancer affecting more and more people below the age of 50.

I will cherish my soul-mate of a companion pet in Molly. I will endeavor to have a small negative on this earth by being mindful of leaving a small carbon footprint - following a vegan lifestyle, choose to relinquish my car and using public transportation, not succumbing to a sedentary lifestyle despite avascular necrosis of my hips. Until the day that I am sidelined by a fractured hip, Molly and I will be walking side-by-side.

Honestly, I believe that God/Higher power scatters the world with guardian angles, in the form of people and animals. I believe that Molly is in my life for a reason. Molly is my guardian angle.

We will have to agree to disagree on the discussion of companion pets and their significance and purpose.

For anyone who feels a tug at their heart to get a companion pet - a specialty service dog or an emotional support animal - my advice is to go for it. Molly has been the best medicine for me, hands-down.
- Karen -

Post Edited ((Seashell)) : 12/5/2016 12:44:11 AM (GMT-7)

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pitmom
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Joined : Jan 2015
Posts : 2830
Posted 12/5/2016 5:42 AM (GMT -6)
Simple answer...I bought my home in 2001. I became disabled in 2006. At the time I bought my home, there was a 'no dogs' policy. Our new landlord realized they must comply with the LAW and now allow animals covered by the Americans With Disabilities rules and the Fair Housing Act rules.

Should I have to sell my home and move?

Your comments are becomming increasingly inflammatory. I suggest you go back and read the forum rules.
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jujub
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Joined : Mar 2003
Posts : 10422
Posted 12/5/2016 8:09 AM (GMT -6)
I have two small dogs (Cavalier King Charles spaniels). They make me laugh every day, no matter how bad I feel. When I'm having joint pain, they are like little heating pads that come to me. They don't have to be microwaved to get warm, and they mold to my body perfectly. If I'm sick, they watch over me and keep me company.

I'm firmly in the pro-dog group, but I still eat meat. So do my dogs. And I get tired of vegans trying to shame me for eating meat. I don't see that as being any different than attacking someone for wanting accommodation for a disability. If you want to be a vegan, do so. If you want a pet, get one. I usually assume everyone's choices are right for them.
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straydog
Forum Moderator
Joined : Feb 2003
Posts : 18873
Posted 12/5/2016 8:40 AM (GMT -6)
Well folks, what started out to be an informative thread has gone down the tubes. Everyone has a right to their opinion, however, flaming is not allowed at Healing Well & this is what is happening. We are all adults here so lets act like it.

Animals can be wonderful to some people but they are not for everyone whether its a pet or a service dog. We have a pet that is priceless to us but on the same token we realize not everyone feels that way.

If we cannot keep this thread civil I will be forced to lock it & that really bothers me.
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ImStrongerThanPain
New Member
Joined : Apr 2015
Posts : 19
Posted 12/5/2016 11:52 PM (GMT -6)
I'm very disappointed that my example, playing devil's advocate, turned into personal attacks on me. People obviously don't understand what the term "playing devil's advocate" means. I'm merely raising opposing viewpoints for people to consider regardless of my personal opinion (which is exactly what "playing devil's advocate" means btw).

I will get back to the simple point I raised, which nobody responded to, that one person's convenience does not outweigh another's person's needs, or if you want to call them both wants rather than needs, that's fine too. Why do the wants/conveniences of one person who's disabled outweigh those of a non-disabled person? It's not like we're talking about a wheelchair ramp or something similar since that is not a convenience, it's a need. There are plenty of pet-friendly places to live so I'm honestly struggling to understand why an animal owner purposefully would live in a no pets building. Maybe somebody could help me understand? I can partly see the viewpoint for someone who already lives in a location not wanting to move, but here's where I struggle with it: If you live somewhere that has a no pets policy, it's unlikely anyone will be able to tell your service/support animal apart from a pet. The only service animals I've been able to clearly differentiate from pets in my life have been those who wear one of those little capes/coats that says they're a service animal not a pet, and those used by the blind, which typically have a distinct, unique type of harness all of us are probably familiar with. So many if not most people will assume you're simply not obeying the no pets policy, and may give you the cold shoulder or contact the building management. The references to attending building meetings or talking with management to discuss the no pets policy but defending the right to own an animal belies (which means falsely leads to or points out for those that don't know; "says the opposite of" would be another way to define it. I don't want more attacks from people who don't understand what I'm posting!) that nobody in a "no pets" building cared when they saw a person with what they assumed was a pet.

To the point of whether a person should have to move because their dwelling no longer fits their wants or needs, well that's pretty simple too. Sure you might have to move because your needs or wants change, and I can absolutely see where a disability may necessitate a move. I've personally faced this multiple times due to my hip issues and having stairs where I lived, but having move because I couldn't handle them. That's why anybody moves in the first place, because your needs or wants change, or we'd all still live with our parents in our childhood homes.

P.S. Can people realize I'm trying to provoke discussion and not degenerate to personal attacks? I thought one main purpose of forums was to debate things?
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(Seashell)
Veteran Member
Joined : Dec 2012
Posts : 1080
Posted 12/6/2016 8:06 AM (GMT -6)
Iamstrongerthanthepain:

That you have decided to post additionally in your argument shows little regard for respecting when it is time to let debate come to a close.

You are not fostering positive discussion and exchange by continuing to push your view and opinion.

We will have to agree to disagree on substantive points.

I will not comment further on this thread for the sake of community goodwill.
- Karen -
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straydog
Forum Moderator
Joined : Feb 2003
Posts : 18873
Posted 12/6/2016 8:19 AM (GMT -6)
I am going to lock this thread, it will not serve any purpose continuing it along the path it has taken. I feel that its been hijacked with too many personal opinions that has nothing to so with the OP's questions. For that I am very sorry.
✚ New Topic locked


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