HOSP. FOR SEVERE DEPRESSION

HAVE EXPERIENCED THE HOSP/ER FOR SEVERE DEPRESSION
1
WENT IN ON MY OWN - 50.0%
0
FAMILY DRAGGED ME - 0.0%
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BAKER ACT ? - 0.0%
1
DOCTOR RECOMMENDED - 50.0%

 
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Trying to Understand
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Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 776
   Posted 10/8/2010 12:23 PM (GMT -6)   
LETS SAY, IF I DO END UP GOING TO THE ER/HOSP, WHAT CAN THEY DO FOR ME IN THE FIRST PLACE, SOON AS I GET THERE. ?
DO THEY HAVE SOME KIND OF HIGH POWERED INJECTIBALES?
COULD I JUST STAY TILL MORNING?
WHAT IS BEING BAKER ACTED MEAN?

JUST THINKING about IT. NOT IN TROUBLE YET, I DON'T THINK.

Tirzah
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Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2317
   Posted 10/8/2010 12:51 PM (GMT -6)   
The Baker Act is the law that allows a physician to involuntarily commit someone to the hospital to protect the patient or someone else from imminent physical harm. It is the very worst way to go into the hospital. You will face the most restrictions. Within 72 hours, they must present the case to a judge explaining why you need to be hospitalized against your will. The judge then decides how long you must stay before the next hearing. Usually you do not go to the hearing, but you can send someone else in your place to represent your interests. At the next hearing, they will decide whether to release you or whether to apply for an extension in which case you would stay in the hospital until the next hearing when the issue would again be revisited.

If you are legally an adult & your family does not have medical power of attorney, they cannot force you to go to the hospital. They can call 911 & have you evaluated, but only a doctor can commit you involuntarily.

You can go on your own -- if possible it is better to involve your psychiatrist because s/he can make things go a bit smoother for you. Often voluntary stays are 3-5 days.

It is certainly a last resort. Just like for a regular medical condition, you try home remedies, try getting professional help from doctors or specialists, make lifestyle changes, try medication, try outpatient clinic, etc. and if none of that is helping & you are getting worse to the point that your health & well-being are seriously affected and/or your life is in danger, then you go to the hospital. They provide emergency care. You will not be magically better when you leave but you should be stabilized enough to continue your care in an outpatient setting (where most of the healing will occur).

If you are feeling like you keep getting worse in spite of treatment, talk to your doctor/counselor. There are many options for treating depression & preventing it from reaching a crisis level is 1000% better than waiting & ending up in the hospital (regardless of whether it's voluntary or not). There are day programs that you can participate in if you need more structure. There are new meds out there all the time that can be tried & often taken in combination with each other. If something doesn't work after a few weeks or if the meds aren't working after a month or two, ask to try something else. Getting ahead of the illness before it gets out of control is the best possible choice.

take care,
frances

stkitt
Elite Member


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 32602
   Posted 10/8/2010 1:48 PM (GMT -6)   
 
Great info provided by Frances re the Baker Act.  :-)
 
If you present to the ER on your own you will receive a medical screening examine and if you need medications they will be given to you.  I cannot say what the Doctor would choose.
 
If you feel you need to be hospitalized for your own protection you would discuss that with the Doctor and you could be admitted on a voluntary basis to a hospital that has a mental health unit.
 
In the ER a physician can place a person with mental illness on a “physician’s hold.” 

To obtain a physician’s emergency hold, there must be a statement from the examiner that is no more than 15 days old that says the person has a mental illness and must be detained to prevent injury to himself or to others. In addition, the head of the secure treatment facility must give approval before the patient  can be confined there. A person can only be held for 72 hours, not including weekends or holidays.  To hold the patient for more than 72 hours, a petition for Civil Commitment and a petition for a court hold must be filed before the period ends.

If you can,  I would call your Dr. and let he/she know how you are feeling and take the steps you need to to protect yourself.

Wondering if you have ever been involved in a outpatient day care group ?  I have heard of many people doing well with this type of treatment.

Again please remember that HealingWell cannot take the place of your Doctor's advice.

Wish you peace,

Kitt



~~Kitt~~
Moderator: Anxiety/Panic, Osteoarthritis, GERD/Heartburn and Heart/Cardiovascular Disease.
www.healingwell.com

"If you can't change the world, change your world"

Trying to Understand
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 776
   Posted 10/8/2010 2:56 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks ladies. Very informational. My doctor said, last time I saw him and we got into a tiff, that if I was in the hosp, that he would no longer be caring for me, the hosp doc would assume treatment responsibility for me. Which in the case of he/I, would probably be a good thing.

No, Outpatient day program was not discussed. Do you just call a local hosp who has a psych unit/clinic and do this on your own? Are the other patients as scary as the ones that are hospitalized?

I have the mindset that I am "not that bad", a special case. Actually I'm not that bad, just have had this on my mind for some time. And trying to make a pre-emergency plan. Doc said that if you go up, expect to go down just as severely, abruptly.

Good idea, day program, sounds good anyway. I think my doc should have mentioned it.

Thanks again.

Sandy

I read about Ketamine studies in which treatment resistant depressed people are given this IV infusion, and that it brings them out of it for 5-6 days. Thought maybe they already had something like that for emergencies. Was hoping so anyway, especially since reading that Ketamine is used on animals by the vet. Kind of bizarre. I want it/oh no I don't. Scary

Post Edited (Trying to Understand) : 10/8/2010 1:59:34 PM (GMT-6)


Tirzah
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Date Joined Jul 2008
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   Posted 10/8/2010 3:37 PM (GMT -6)   
Sandy,
You must have a referral from a psychiatrist to get into a day program.

The day programs are usually 4-8 hours per day and can be up to 5 days per week, but programs vary & not every patient goes full time. It is all group therapy for the entire time. Yes, the people in the program tend to be sick. Healthy people do not go to the hospital, even on an outpatient basis. They are past the crisis stage, but certainly are not well off. Some programs have special groups for patients with only depression/anxiety. Others may group substance abusers, depression & psychotic patients all together (depends on resources of hospital & number of patients at any given time). Usually you would meet with the psychiatrist for meds management once a week. They do try to coordinate some with your normal psych at least at the transition period, sometimes before. Typically insurance companies will not pay for individual counseling during the time that you are in an IOP program so if you are seeing a counselor & are admitted into an IOP, you should let the counselor know.

The length of the program can vary. Some are several weeks long. Others are more transitional & will discharge patients after 3-4 weeks. Not every hospital with a psych ward offers IOP, but your psych/counselor should be able to advise you which ones do & if your psychiatrist is open to suggestions from you about where to go, you can call ahead and ask about their program (hours/day, days/week, max # of patients/group, activities [some are only talk, others include art therapy or other alternative therapy], average length of stay). Some places will share that information with you.

If you don't think your psychiatrist is helpful, though, why not switch to a different doctor?

peace,
frances

PS -- Another option which usually you can self-enroll in is Dialectical Behavioral Therapy (DBT). Usually that is offered at a specialized counseling center. DBT groups meet for a few hours maybe 3x/week. They also have an individual counselor who may meet with you once or twice a week. Maybe something to consider. Only thing is they almost never prescribe, so you would still need someone to write your monthly meds.

stkitt
Elite Member


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 32602
   Posted 10/8/2010 4:15 PM (GMT -6)   
Sandy,
 
Some of our mental health clinics in my area offer Day Treatment.  DaTRAC treatment tracks offer multidisciplinary and multimodal services in individualized treatment programs. All treatment participants complete a program assessment to determine the client's treatment needs and functional status. After this assessment the client's treatment plan is developed. Based on this treatment plan the client is scheduled in those day treatment and supplemental services which will address his or her treatment needs. In the treatment program the client may receive individual as well as group services. All of the treatment are open therapy groups in which clients will enter and leave at different times. Depending on the client's treatment needs clients can expect to attend one to five days each week for a minimum of three hours each day.
 
You do, as Frances mentioned,  have to have a referral from your therapist or psychiatrist.
 
You should be able to get info from your Dr. where you are re what service is available to you.
 
RE Ketamine, in a small study of 18 patients, scientists found that severely depressed bipolar patients who were given an injection of ketamine saw improvements in their depressive symptoms within 40 minutes, and the effect lasted for at least three days.  Because of its hallucinogenic side effects, ketamine is unlikely to become a widely used antidepressant.
 
I would not go on  a search for this drug. 
 
Kindly,
 
Kitt
 
 
~~Kitt~~
Moderator: Anxiety/Panic, Osteoarthritis, GERD/Heartburn and Heart/Cardiovascular Disease.
www.healingwell.com

"If you can't change the world, change your world"

Post Edited (stkitt) : 10/8/2010 3:26:38 PM (GMT-6)


theHTreturns...
Elite Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 20282
   Posted 10/8/2010 10:34 PM (GMT -6)   
FOR RESISTANT TYPE DEPRESSION(S), AND FOR VERY AT RISK PATIENTS A COURSE OF E.C.T MAYBE RECOMMENDED. PS. PATIENTS ARE PATIENTS, WE ALL ARE DIFFERENT, SOME HIGHER RISK ARE USUALLY IN A MORE SECURE ENVIRONMENT, (HDU) AND THEN OTHERS ON THE REGULAR WARD-WE, THEY ARE STILL HUMAN BEINGS, ALIKE YOU, ME AND THE GREEN GROCER!!!! FOR PATIENTS WHO COME TO HOSP IN-VOLUNATARILY, WELL AT LEAST HERE IN AUSTRALIA, A INJECTION OF LARGACTICL SETTLES THE SITUATION VERY QUICKLY. IT DOES NOT DISCRIMINATE. LARGACTIL, THAT IS.

JAMIE.
YESTERDAY IS A BUTTERLY WITHOUT WINGS. (ME)
 
DX, MDD, SEVERE BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER.
 
REMEMBER TO LOVE YOU. BE YOU AND BE TRUE.

Tirzah
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2317
   Posted 10/10/2010 2:35 PM (GMT -6)   
Jamie,
Here in the US there is no national protocol. Depending on the hospital, psychotic patients may or may not be separated from mood disorder patients. And even in larger psych hospitals where they have separate wards, mood disorder patients may end up on a psychotic ward if the other wards are full. The only exception to non-segregated wards are that children & adults are not supposed to be housed together (well, in my state at least) and they try to keep geriatric patients separate when possible. I was housed on the psychotic floor when I was in the hospital the first time. And it was scary. One of the patients violently attacked another patient with a homemade weapon. The guy needed surgery. Yes, the patient was immediately given medication (patients in US are allowed to choose restraints or meds & hospitals try hard to abide by those wishes) and moved to a separate padded room but it was still scary. The second time I went to a small psych unit in a hospital that didn't accept psychotic patients. They only accepted patients with SA or mood disorder issues. That was much less troubling to me.

But for IOP, while there can be people who hallucinate or have multiple personalities or such, they are not in that kind of crisis state to where they are a danger. They are still in a tough place, but like you said in Australia, nothing to worry about. We all need help & as long as someone's not a danger, they deserve to be heard & helped like the rest of us. :)

Sandy,
As far as the ketamine trials, I tried to get into one when I was much worse off than I am now. They are extremely selective. The criteria on the website is usually only the tip of the iceberg. They required that patients relocate to MD for 3 months for the study & didn't cover any expenses. My family would have helped me do that but because I had surgery some years ago for a birth defect, I didn't qualify. I actually agree that it seems like a very promising treatment. I am prescribed compounded topical ketamine for pain & in low enough doses the side effects are tolerable. If the choice is death or hallucinations, I can understand why "live with temporary side effects" is desirable. And it would be nice if someone could be discharged from the hospital & actually BE better, rather than just pretending & hoping that weeks down the road they will finally see some benefit.

There have been several studies -- 26pt at Mt. Sinai, 18pt at St. Mary's, 28pt at Rutgers/Harvard -- as well as some that were not organized through NIMH, but only recently have researchers started enrolling larger populations of patients (100+). So like Kitt said, best case we are still years away from getting it approved to treat depression. And there is no research showing that it helps for more than a few days [takes 15-24 hours to work & then must be administered every 48 hours to deliver continuing benefit]. On top of that, because it can cause life-threatening side effects -- high heart rate/bp, increase in intercranial pressure, hallucinations that could lead to behavior which might endanger your life, it must be administered in patient & usually that means at least a 2-3 day stay.

Ketamine is on-label for other uses, but personally I would be really scared of some random doctor administering ketamine for depression. A researcher in a Level 1 trauma center is probably the only person I would trust due to the dangerous side effects. In the protocols, they put you in a inpatient psych unit & monitor you for a week after each dose. The dangers really are only justifiable if someone has gotten to the point where they can't really be safely released from an inpatient stay b/c their intent to harm themselves is so strong & pervasive. There are people who are so severely depressed that they even try to harm themselves in the hospital. Again, in those cases I can see why the serious risks would be warranted but I don't understand (other than for research purposes) why someone would go through all that unless there was basically 0% chance of them living otherwise. To risk death for 48 hours of having a 50% reduction in depression doesn't make a ton of sense. In the most recent studies, they administered the drug for 12 days meaning maybe 15 days of 50% relief. Coupled with intensive therapy, controlled diet/environment & daily support from professionals, family and friends, I can see how the ketamine would be helpful in the most serious, untreatable cases. But it still requires a heck of a lot of work on the recipient's part to battle the depression on an on-going basis. As far as I know, they still use the same long-term techniques that have always been used (they did for the study I tried to enroll in)... after all, you can't stay in the hospital for monitoring for your entire life.

For me, it took a very serious situation before I started fighting my depression. And it was terribly hard. Every day, hundreds of times an hour, I had to say "I want to live. I choose to live. I do not want to kill myself. I do not want to die." I didn't believe it. The only thing I knew was how physically painful the attempt was & that God must want me on this earth for some reason. But hearing & saying those words over and over did make a difference. There is neurolinguistic research out there that explains why but suffice it to say that we can change our thoughts and thereby change our feelings when we change our words. I said those words tens of thousands of times before I started to think that they might be true. Every time a thought would enter my head that I wanted to die, I would say aloud that I didn't. And I had a LOT of those thoughts.

There was a physical component for me -- I had anemia, B12 "anemia", hypothyroidism & as a result was malnourished & dehydrated -- sodium was way too low, potassium levels were through the roof. And I got help for that. I learned that my body can't tolerate anti-depressants (the new ones, anyways) so I steer clear of them now. I went to a lot of counseling & read a lot of books and most of the time just went through the motions not believing anything would help... all the while continuing to say those say words over & over about wanting to live. But after a while I started to realize that I was only having to say them maybe once per minute. It is a small victory being able to go 60 seconds without wanting to kill yourself, but it was a measurable victory for me. So I kept at it -- take meds, eat healthy foods, get some sun, phone a friend once a week. And months later I realized I was able to go maybe 5-10 minutes without wanting to die. So I started volunteering (small things at first like making scarves for the cancer patients in the hospital) and got a part-time job for 1-2 half-days per week. And I joined HW. And got some wonderful advice & support from Karen & Kitt & many of the members here.

And so now I have gotten to the point where I realize what it is that I want in life & what (well, who) has been keeping me from getting there. And I'm going after it. In 2 months the lawsuits & financial messes & joblessness & all the other unhappy events will be over and I get a chance to really do what I've always loved -- teach, travel, visit with friends, do research & volunteer. It has been one heck of a battle & I'm sure it's nowhere near over. I still have weeks where I am so overwhelmed by life's challenges that I think for a moment that I want to give up, but I go back to saying "I want to live. I choose to life. I do not want to kill myself. I do not want to die." I go back to the really basic things in life -- get out of bed, get dressed, go to work, sit at the desk, try to get at least one thing done, eat, sleep. And most of the time that works. I've realized that when I resist the temptation to slide downhill, it's much easier to climb back up the next day or day after that when I feel better (vs. being discouraged that now I've missed work & people are asking about me and I have a migraine from not eating for 2 days).

I had a friend some years ago tell me "Frances, it's not easy but it is simple." I think that's held true. Battling depression is not easy. It's incredibly difficult. You are tired & feel hopeless & have no energy and this awful Thing is trying to take your life. And it sucks that we have to fight so hard just to have what other people have naturally. But it can be done. So I guess I want to just encourage you to fight this. Keep fighting, fight harder, whatever it takes. And if there is just no way that you can fight off the suicidal thoughts, maybe it is worth looking into whether you can qualify for one of the ketamine studies. At least it would give you a couple weeks of being safe & feeling better, and worst case is that you end up furthering the research & helping someone else live a few years down the line. That was why I was interested in it. Hang in there!

hugz & prayers,
frances

Trying to Understand
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Date Joined Sep 2010
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   Posted 10/10/2010 7:42 PM (GMT -6)   
There was a physical component for me. I learned that my body can't tolerate anti-depressants (the new ones, anyways) so I steer clear of them now. I went to a lot of counseling & read a lot of books and most of the time just went through the motions not believing anything would help... all the while continuing to say those say words over & over about wanting to live. But after a while I started to realize that I was only having to say them maybe once per minute. It is a small victory being able to go 60 seconds without wanting to kill yourself, but it was a measurable victory for me. So I kept at it -- take meds, eat healthy foods, get some sun, phone a friend once a week. And months later I realized I was able to go maybe 5-10 minutes without wanting to die. So I started volunteering (small things at first like making scarves for the cancer patients in the hospital) and got a part-time job for 1-2 half-days per week. And I joined HW. And got some wonderful advice & support from Karen & Kitt & many of the members here.

THANKS FOR THIS FRANCES. AM DIGESTING YOUR POST SLOWLY, YOU PUT A LOT OF EFFORT INTO IT AND I AM GRATEFUL. RE; THIS PARAGRAPH, I AM READING, SEARCHING AND KNOW THAT SOME OF MY DISTRESS IS NUTRITIONAL. HAVE ELIMINATED LOADS OF POTENTIAL TROUBLE MAKERS, TAKING VITS ON BIGGIES I READ THAT DEPLETIONS OF CAUSE DEPRESSION. JUST FINISHED A BOOK about THYROID, NOT ME EITHER. WENT OUT IN THE LIGHT OF DAY FRI NIGHT AND HAD SUPPER WITH FRIENDS. WAS LIKE A MOLE COMING OUT OF THE DARKNESS, NEEDED SUNGLASSES AS IT WAS APPROACHING SUNSET, BEAUTIFUL. A PART-TIME JOB WOULD BE GREAT. DOING WHAT IF I MAY ASK?

THANKS TO ALL FOR THEIR CONTINUING SUPPORT AND ADVICE.

SANDY

theHTreturns...
Elite Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 20282
   Posted 10/10/2010 7:42 PM (GMT -6)   
geriatic and childern seperare here also. seperate facilities for each. we here where i am at we have 1 facility, 28 beds and 3 seclusions rooms for over 300,000 people. currently doing it up, around 11 extra beds coming. involuntary is a minimum of 6 wks, and after this the mental health review board makes a decision. jamie.
YESTERDAY IS A BUTTERLY WITHOUT WINGS. (ME)
 
DX, MDD, SEVERE BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER.
 
REMEMBER TO LOVE YOU. BE YOU AND BE TRUE.

Trying to Understand
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 776
   Posted 10/10/2010 7:57 PM (GMT -6)   
LOOKED UP THAT DRUG YOU MENTIONED, JAMIE. THORAZINE ! YES A GOOD DOSE OF THAT WOULD PROBABLY HELP STOP WHEN ESCALATING OUT OF CONTROL.

THOUGHT AUSTRAILIA WAS BETTER AT TAKING CARE OF MENTAL DISORDERS THAN THAT BECAUSE I READ AN EMAIL DOWNLOAD FROM GRAEME COWAN, THEN CHECKED UP ON THE BLACK DOG INSTITUTE, AND THEIR RESOURCE LIST. ;(

HOSP HERE IS MUCH BETTER. FUNNY HOW HOSP FOR MENTAL DISORDERS IS SO DIFFERENT THAN GOING IN FOR SOMETHING ELSE. ER, I MEAN, NOT FUNNY

IF YOU CAN PAY $$$$ FOR IT, PRIVATE HOSP WOULD BE LIKE GOING ON A LUXURY VACATION

THANKS
SANDY

MY NEW WORD: NAMASTE
BP II
Severe depression

Tirzah
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2317
   Posted 10/10/2010 11:08 PM (GMT -6)   
Wow, not sure where mental hospitals are like vacations. Maybe California??? All of the hospitals I went to here were private. The first was a private psych hospital & I felt like I was in a live reenactment of "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest". The second was a small ward in a catholic hospital & that one was miserable but at least no one was trying to kill anyone. The third one was a private hospital that is part of a major national chain. The building looked like it ought to be located in the projects but the staff was well trained (and based on the daily rates, I assume very well paid). I can't complain about the doctors in any of them. And the food was far better than what I'm used to in hospitals & I got to pick from a menu for each day's food, but short of that if was impossible to get past the fact that you are locked in, told when to eat, when to sleep, when to take your meds, when to bathe. You have zero privacy b/c they keep doing suicide checks with flashlights every 5 minutes all night long. If you're in the shower or toilet for too long (i.e., more than 3 minutes), they will open the door on you. Many of your toiletries are held by the staff & you are only allowed to use them supervised. And most places will not let you use a blowdryer even with supervision. No shaving. No flossing your teeth. If you don't show up for the repetitive lectures on time every hour, you get no visitors & no fun time. In the nicer hospital we got to talk on the phone as long as we behaved for the entire 45 minutes of our phone time. In the 2 psych hospitals, they limited your phone time to 5 minutes per session so everyone could have a turn. Of course the phones had a 3" cord & even that was removed outside of phone time -- which was once or twice a day tops -- and someone was sitting right next to you listening to your entire call.

I'm not saying that I'm not glad that hospitals exist, but personally I don't go on vacations where first thing straight away is a lengthy "body search" which is basically a fancy term for strip search where they write down every little detail while you stand buck naked for a full 5 minutes. And then they take away anything that any creative person has figured out how to turn into a weapon (which surprisingly is a lot of the things you would normally want on a daily basis). And then you are locked in -- even if you're voluntary -- for a period of time outside of your control.

Are things worse off in many of the public hospitals? Usually. Often they really struggle with being understaffed & tend to attract patients who waited way too long to get help b/c they lack insurance and don't understand that the private hospitals will still treat them (have to by law) if they have a legitimate mental health emergency. The food is usually not as good & phone times are typically every other day, or twice a week. But I'm not sure it's true that private hospitals are akin to vacations. They are still pretty miserable & on top of that you're ill & so is everyone else around you.

Trying to Understand
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Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 776
   Posted 10/11/2010 12:46 AM (GMT -6)   
Well, meant mental hosps. for rich people. I guess they get a staff to move into one wing of the house and stay home. Or was thinking about the places that the folks on Intervention go to for rehab.
BP II
Severe depression

myjoy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 686
   Posted 10/11/2010 8:33 AM (GMT -6)   
I have always voluntarily gone into mental health units through my psychiatrist. It's happened to me at least 15+ times in 26 years. Last time was in May of this year. They are not the most fun places in the world, but are needed for one's own protection at times. Weird, but I feel safe from myself when in the hospital. When I go into the hospital, I am normally so depressed that I speak to no one or even look at anyone for 2 to 3 days. I will talk with staff if they talk to me first. I just want to disolve into the woodwork.

Usually, the doctors will try a different med or tweek what you are taking. For me, that takes a few days to kick in. I also go to classes at this time on self esteem etc.... and do crafts too. It's very difficult to do these things when you are depressed. I really just go through the motions as a zombie, at first. Then, for me, after a few days, I start to come out of my trance and start speaking with people again. A couple days of that and then I am usually ready to go home again.

My hospitalizations have saved my life many times over.
DX fibromyalgia 2007, OCD, depression, anxiety, sleep apnea, sleep problems, lack of energy.
meds - fluoxetine (prozac), abilify, trazodone, lorazepam, nabumetone, hydrocodone, ambien, provigil, c-pap machine.
A friend loves at all times. Proverbs 17:17

stkitt
Elite Member


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 32602
   Posted 10/11/2010 8:57 AM (GMT -6)   
Perhaps Sandy was referring to the private pay facilities such as a couple of these:
 
 
There seems to be many more private addiction treatment centers then mental health upscale centers. 
 
As with most things in life if you want a 5 star private facility it does cost a lot of money which most of us do not have or we would not be on here talking with each other but perhaps be at a plush treatment center sitting in a hot tub. shocked
 
So we all go to the therapists, Pdoc, and hospitals that are available to us as we need help - good for us !
 
I have a therapy appointment today and my therapist  has grand ideas but myjoy said exactly what I feel as we sit there and it is suggested that I get out and just join groups etc., "It's very difficult to do these things when you are depressed."
 
Much good information here for you Sandy and a great amount of sharing.   
 
Thinking of you and hope your Monday goes well.
 
Gentle Hugs,
 
Kitt
~~Kitt~~
Moderator: Anxiety/Panic, Osteoarthritis, GERD/Heartburn and Heart/Cardiovascular Disease.
www.healingwell.com

"If you can't change the world, change your world"

Trying to Understand
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Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 776
   Posted 10/11/2010 12:49 PM (GMT -6)   
Morning, Kitt !

Yes thats what I was referring to, private pay places. Not that I plan on checking in to one, but that I'd like to. Recharge the emotional batteries in a safe, beautiful environment.

Yes, some suggestions are just too much in the midst of depression. Baby step concept is more realistic. No one knows like the guy who's been there. And that's why I have sought advice from the wise ones here.

Happy Monday to you too !
BP II
Severe depression

Tirzah
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Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2317
   Posted 10/11/2010 4:41 PM (GMT -6)   
Sandy,
If you want, maybe we could help you figure out how to get what you are dreaming of in the private pay SA program without actually going there. I'm not sure what parts you think would be helpful in helping you battle depression, but we do have a lot of creative members here so if you'd like to throw out some ideas I'm sure people would be happy to try & help.
I certainly can't blame you for wanting a vacation. Maybe a vacation-like experience would help. I did try that before my 2nd stay in the hospital. Went down to gma's in sunny Orlando. The problem was that I was still miserable. I just wanted to stay in bed all day & gma really wasn't okay with that. So we worked on embroidery projects & visited some family & I helped her cook, but really I ended up feeling worse than before I went. But I know other people have written that they enjoyed being in the hospital (as much as it can be enjoyed) b/c they didn't have to take care of their families & they had time to think & they didn't have to cook or clean, and didn't have to make any decisions. There are ways to accomplish nearly all of those goals without going inpatient.
Maybe you have some other goals of your own that you feel if you could just find a way to have certain resources/experiences/etc. then you would be better able to heal. If so, feel free to post them & we can try to suggest alternate ways to get there that don't cost $100K. ;)

skeye
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Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 3089
   Posted 10/11/2010 8:29 PM (GMT -6)   
Wow, this thread has been really helpful. Thanks so much to everyone who posted.

I've been having an extremely hard time with my depression & anxiety lately, and have seriously considered having myself hospitalized several times over the last couple weeks. I was/am pretty naive about the whole process of hospitalization for psychiatric issues. After reading this, though, I'm glad that I didn't have myself committed. The big reason I didn't end up going to the hospital was because I wasn't sure what they would do with me/if they'd really be able to do anything to help. From what Frances, and others have written, I think that I would have been much worse off in a facility than dealing with things at home.

Fortunately, my psychiatrist is FANTASTIC, and is almost always on-call for emergencies (except for on a few occasions, when he is away). I have been seeing him for just over a year now, and had never called him for an emergency before, until recently. I saw him at 10 pm one night the other week because I was just so bad. He had an event to go to & came back into the office special just to see me & then spent 2 hrs with me & didn't even want to charge me for the visit (I basically forced him to take the check because I felt so bad making him come in so late).

Thanks again for the info. This makes me feel better about my decisions as of late.

Skeye
chronic eye pain, depression, and anxiety
recently implanted with a neurostimulator with leads on the supraobrital & infraorbital (ophthalmic) branches of the trigeminal nerve, resulting in a 50% decrease in pain (yippee!)

Trying to Understand
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 776
   Posted 10/11/2010 8:29 PM (GMT -6)   
If I won the lottery, that would help. Someone from the forum could come and read the Desiderata to me at bedtime. Help me with meditation and mindfulness. Put me on a stationery bike and pump the peddles for me. ha ha Thanks for continuing to think of me.

Just got back from grocery shopping, first time this year all by myself. Yes, drove the car, parked it, didn't lose it in the lot when I came back out. Went to Walmart Food, had a list of things my husband hasn't been getting quite right, and ingredients for some recipes I ran into on the internet. It took hours, but I did a very organized job, starting in Health and Beauty, Nightwear, which for me is daywear, and hit a bonanza of gowns for $5 each, also a blouse, folded them neatly with tags out, off hangers, so as not to have them stuffed in the bag like rags. Then household, papergoods, canned, and last bread, fruit & veg, meat, cheese, eggs, dairy, didn't miss a thing except for the ever elusive, Shiritake noodles. I'm not even sure I will like them. And at the check-out had her bag the cold stuff in plastic, but use double paper from Trader Joe's for the heavy stuff. Remembered to bring the bags. Have unloaded the cold stuff, but left the rest in the trunk as hubby isn't home, and after all that "exercise" I could barely make it up 4 steps to get into the house.

Did falter a bit, and bought a chocolate brownie drumstick cone, it was only $1 and it was there right on the end of the row beckoning. 420 calories, but worth every bit. Ate it as I rechecked my list, gave the cashier the wrapper. Worked fine.

So, drove, got out of the house, did something to help with the household, found good buys, and was on my feet for about 4 hrs. Returned a bag of yarn I bought in Jan. to make a baby afghan, then my daughter mis-carried. Sore spot Gift card for $37 Not a bad day.

My daughter has an interesting method of helping herself cope with loneliness, etc., when feeling low. She also has a great job to pay for it. She goes for a manicure, pedicure, wax, MASSAGE regularly. I couldn't really get into all that beautification, but guess she likes it because its kind of somebody waiting on her, hand and foot, literally.

Later friends

Sandy
BP II
Severe depression

Trying to Understand
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 776
   Posted 10/12/2010 2:55 AM (GMT -6)   
Skeye-
And I feel the same way, hospitalization does not sound right for me at this time either. And glad everyone has shared so much about what it is, and isn't.
How wonderful that you have such a great relationship with your doc/therapist. You found a man with a heart of pure gold.
In regards to those troubled times when one would just like to get away from the household responsibilities, ask for help, define what can let slide for a week.
Curious as to what advice your doc gave you, if that isn't out of line. Not the personal part, the answer/solution part. Only if you want to.
Sandy

Tirzah
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Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2317
   Posted 10/12/2010 4:11 PM (GMT -6)   
Sandy,
They do have recordings of Desiderata. There are even free recordings on YouTube if you don't have the 99c to pay for it on iTunes. I totally agree that having something relaxing to listen to at bedtime makes a huge difference. I have a song that I listen/sing to before bedtime every night.
As for the spa day, there are beauty schools that will provide services for practically free (some days they actually are free for everything but hair color). There are a couple by me that I go to sometimes -- nails $2, pedi $5, haircut & style $5, makeup $12. You can pick one or all of them. It does take a bit longer than usual b/c sometimes the teacher needs to step in to correct the student's work or provide instruction but it's cheap & if you like that kind of thing it can be really fun. Personally, I'm not that keen on the spa. But I'll invite my sister or sometimes a friend over once a month & we will give each other facials & do each others' nails. That actually is pretty fun. :) There is also a massage school that I've gone to that gives free massages on Tues & Thurs. I think they are just as good as a real massage b/c the students have all their instruction & then practice on themselves & then practice on family/friends before they ever take outside clients. They also do acupuncture, but I've never tried their student acupuncture services.

I thought about Biggest Loser when you said having someone to move your legs on the bike for you. lol Oh my goodness, I don't think I could take that. ;) But there are IOP programs that include an accountability component. I don't know where you live, but the Depression program at Rush is a long-term program (8-12 weeks, I think) and there they encourage participants to partner up to meet their goals -- including exercise & social goals. I definitely know that when I have a running partner I tend to be much better at following through. Maybe something like that would be an option for you. Exercise definitely does make a big difference with depression. For me, the biggest obstacle isn't actually exercising, but the getting up, getting dressed & getting outside so having a partner forced me to get to the "starting line" and then I was able to do the rest.

But if you're still struggling that much with physical tasks, maybe your meds need to be adjusted & depending on what you've been eating you may be missing nutrients. Your PCP can run a basic blood test to see. Be careful with just taking vitamins without knowing what your levels are. I did that & made myself worse. I read that bananas were good for depression. Then I ended up with a really high potassium level. Potassium & Sodium are inversely related (when one's high, automatically the other's low). So my sodium was dangerously low & I developed life-threatening dehydration. After weeks of having to go for 3x/week outpatient Infusion therapy (saline), I got a new PCP and found out that my "brilliant plan" to beat depression was the culprit. I ended up really sick & on top of that the dehydration worsened my depression. I was drinking 3-4L of water/day, but was still dehydrated b/c of low sodium levels. On the flip side though, people can have too high of sodium levels & that can cause problems of its own. So it's better not to guess.
B12 is another issue that can cause depression symptoms, but depending on what the cause is, it may require injections of B12 b/c some people can never breakdown the oral B12 supplements. So that's another case where testing can tell whether you B12 is normal, slightly low to where it will respond to vitamins or really low to where you need shots.

Wish you were closer. I'd invite you to join the knitting circle I go to but maybe you can find one out by you. That would be low energy but still beat some of the loneliness that tends to accompany depression. My gma just moved up from FL & I'm working on a multicolored scarf for her right now. I just love knitting. It's so much fun!

peace,
frances

Trying to Understand
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Date Joined Sep 2010
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   Posted 10/12/2010 5:34 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Francis -
Nice to hear from you again today.
I'm not on any meds currently, had lots of problems early this year, and pdoc stopped the mood stabilizers, and I weaned myself off Cymbalta and Wellbutrin. Don't feel any the worse, and my GP has agreed to monitor me and prescribe antidepressant as needed.

So, that's why I started the vits. Not everything, just ordinary amts of zinc, magnesium, B complex, folic acid, fish oil, a multi vit for trace ; then mega doses of Vit C, Lecithin, niacin, cinnamon and one other, forget. The plan is to fix any depletions I might have with the first group, then see how I feel when the bottle of those are gone. The second group I was going to continue on, but its been 3 wks, and haven't noticed anything different in how I feel. So don't know that it was necessary, just covering all bases.

Have eliminated caffeine, sugar, processed foods and mostly eat whole food, fruits & veg. Again, no change. So think those things weren't causing my problems.

Begged my GP to put me on HRTs but she won't because of my mother having breast cancer. Grabbing at straws to find the reason I have gained so much weight, and of course the depression. She says of course your hormones are low, you have no ovaries. I don't need a test to tell me that, but you're not getting HRTs. So, I got a progesterone cream off the internet, carefully researched by a friend of mine who goes to a holistic doc, and its a good cream, not just something off the shelf. She's taken it for years now, and her mom, gma, and her gma all had breast cancer and the doc knows them all. So far no change, but just started and it will take 1-4 mos. Also have my eye on Suzanne Somers, pushing a book and bio identical hormones. She LOOKS fantastic. Of course she has the best in personal care and all the money in the world for cosmetic procedures.

Regarding the B12, in July went thru a funny time of being dizzy/unbalanced and my husband took me to Urgent care after a few days of this. (on no meds) so I had a lot of blood work, and think they would have noticed the sodium or potassium problem. They did give me an IV with B12, which did pick me up by evening. The next day the staff there marvelled at how much better I looked. Said I was some ungodly color, ? Thanks I guess. I asked for a B12 injection. Thought maybe I would become Super woman, but didn't.

What you said about the dehydration/sodium/potassium thing. I am always thirsty, and drink a lot of water but still am thirsty. Extremely dry mouth, can't taste food, have decreased my sodium since being on whole foods and not adding salt, not having pop with sodium benzoate. I could test this by eating salty stuff and see if that gets any better. Originally the GP said the dry mouth was a side effect of the antidepressants, both, but since stopping them there has been no change. Trial and error, don't ya just love it. Have an appt for a complete physical again in Nov. with bloodwork.

Yeah, who'd ever think bananas could be lethal, ha ha Had a friend I took grocery shopping and she had a potassium problem and so we had a list of high K foods, nectarines ? She ended up going to a kidney spec who put her on a strong water pill because her 92 yo kidneys were shrinking. Been fine ever since, but was on death's doorstep for awhile.

I'm depressed in a physical way, not wanting to go out etc. no interests other than researching on the web. But don't feel sad or cry. My daughter is in a tizzy because I'm not on any meds, and she thinks the bottom is going to fall out on me. Wanted to hosp me in Feb. by getting power of attorney. So I really do an about face when I know I will see her, not very often. Its OK for a few hrs.

I will check out the recording of the Desiderata, thanks. What's your bedtime song if you don't mind me asking ?

The beauty college is a good suggestion and we have a big one not too far away. Knitting, ixnay, was crocheting up a storm last year then couldn't crochet fast enough and was very impatient after telling myself I would make scarves for Christmas for EVERYONE across the board. Even found out their winter coat colors, ha ha

Definitely dragging my feet on exercise as I am ashamed to go out and be seen I am so heavy. So embarrassing. Signed up at Curves a year ago but never went back, started having anxiety attacks about being 1 on 1 for my introductory visit, and then being somewhere with too many people in the room, and MIRRORS everywhere. Ridiculous I know. I have heard that if you move it in there, you can burn 500 cal a session.

Excuses, excuses. I could play a game called I wonder, I wonder how much wt loss I could accomplish by this Christmas ? I'm on the cusp of going over there. And I fault the young ones for being so stubborn, ha ha

The program at Rush sounds good. I like things that have a starting date, duration and ending date, structure and a professional leader. I have a paper I got out telling briefly about a program at our local hosp which my daughter gave me during the "crisis". Since my daughter has been waiting for me to crash, I needed to know about the hosp. And know my husband would hustle me right over there if need be. Thought I might be cheating myself by not going but don't think so now. So far, so good.

OK, note to self, Self: go to Curves starting tomorrow. Find your shoes and shorts tonight. Call about the day programs at the hosp. Find out when its reduced day at the Beauty college and don't hang up till you make the appt for ASAP. Stock up on salty stuff, chips pretzels, virgin Margarita fixins, salsa, tortilla strips. (I know, need the sodium IV, just kidding)

Thanks again for all your suggestions, dear friend. Will give it the old heave ho

Sandy

Post Edited (Trying to Understand) : 10/12/2010 4:43:56 PM (GMT-6)


stkitt
Elite Member


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 32602
   Posted 10/12/2010 5:56 PM (GMT -6)   
Sandy -  I went to  curves and never wore shorts, jusy light weight cotton pants. If I showed up in shorts everyone would fall down laughing.  smilewinkgrin I hope you get those shoes out and tomorrow is your day !
 
hugs,
Kitt

Trying to Understand
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 776
   Posted 10/13/2010 5:12 AM (GMT -6)   
Kitt-
Thanks for the fashion update, guess I will opt for my capri/clamdigger look. Thank God there aren't coordinated outfits, tights, leg warmers, sweat bands, ha ha

Got the shoes and sox ready. Laid out the "outfit". I Will do this !

Thanks for the encouragement.

Sandy

stkitt
Elite Member


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 32602
   Posted 10/13/2010 10:32 AM (GMT -6)   
Sandy,  Let us know how it went for you at Curves.  Thinking of you ! I am sure you will be a fashionista !  Ta Ta.
Kitt
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