The Physical of Depression

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Taygeta
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 164
   Posted 10/24/2010 10:05 PM (GMT -6)   
Medical depression for most people is essentially some malfunctioning element of their brain's activity.  That's what I have been told about myself, though the reasons my brain does not function "normally" are unknown to me.  
 
Depression, as far as health insurance goes, is termed a mental illness.  But in reality, it is a physical problem that is occurring within the brain.  Yet the treatment of this physical problem does not merit any investigative techniques like one would have with a heart or kidney problem or whatever problem.
 
The standard route seems to be - When you have depression, you are diagnosed, then prescribed one of a number of anti-depressive meds.  As well, you might see a therapist.
 
I don't know if I am the only one thinking this way, but shouldn't they run some kind of brainwave analysis tests to see exactly what is wrong with my brain function versus that of another person's brain function?  (Before medicine is prescribed?)  I am certain we have the capability to see how the brain works . . .
 
Yet I have never been offered that solution, and I don't see that solution offered in the mental health section of the insurance.  I know this post may seem a bit testy, but I have had a rotten day today, and it's the rotten days that sometimes get me thinking about the logistics of my depression.
 
It's not that a therapist isn't a help - they are.  It's not that meds cannot help - they can.  But where is the actual physical diagnosis that is used to prescribe treatment for the individual patient?  Depression seems to be treated more like a sinus infection than a heart problem.  We'll try one antibiotic to see if it works, if it doesn't, then we'll give you another. 
 
Or is the way depression is treated really because science doesn't understand the mechanisms of depression at all . . .
 
I don't know. 
 
And if one could determine the "type" of depression someone has - might there even be another physical reason that could be triggering the depression?  Enzymes, hormones, unbalanced electrolytes, whatever . . .
 
Scythia
 
 
 
       

theHTreturns...
Elite Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 20186
   Posted 10/25/2010 12:44 AM (GMT -6)   
scythia, yeah, i here you. a topic that comes up a lot on this forum. this is some of my reasoning regarding depression.
obviously for some it can come about from triggers, from current situations and from past situations. the individual component as you have stated is missed, and a fare lot, albeit cause and effect situations need to be addressed. yes it would be fantastic if all people with a mental illness could have a topomography study done, brain study, i think it is called this! but sadly it is an expense that is unwarranted, drug companies would start crying out in pain if these were routinely done.
 
okay, i get the square in the square slot, this anti-dep for this depression dx. some people, and for me as well, i tend to alter in depressive phases, sometimes better on dopamine, sometimes seratonin, and at times noradrenaline. i know my brain is very deeply miswired. i think sometimes that a trainee electrician has wired me backwards!!! obviously a brain mapping study would be fantastic.
 
the medication element, geez, this irks me greatly. i suppose here i can truely say that without anti-deps i would be stuffed.(yeah would be great if we didn't have to go on sixty different ones to find the right one.) i think the magority of us would be stuffed. i suppose the physical of the mental part of the dx is a conudrum. dr's feel if we can get the hard wiring soughted then the physical will come good also. obviosly for some it is the other way around!!
 
in a manner i support a individual dx. even if it is a routine dx. one thing i have noted is that depressive dx's are becoming more intrinsic to the person. for me i know of my compunding factors, i know of my physical contributors, my addictive contributors and of my environmental contributors and of cause and effect situations, of baggage and of past trauma. this is how i define my depression, not just mental and not just physical, and not just about my current and past health, but of where i am at at any given time and date.
 
it's a tough one. i know i am compounded by many contributing factors, i know how they affect, and effect me. but the synapes in my brain do not, nor does my brain most of the time. i suppose it is finding an understanding of our illness that is most paramount. sadly depression is both a physical and mental illness, i get what you are saying, it is just understanding the intrinsic bits that are affecting any of us at any time. more tiredness, more lethargy, more sleep, more isolation, these sum of the parts of depression are for you, me, everybody with depression are what make up our similar but different depressive diagnoses.
 
thx, jamie.
YESTERDAY IS A BUTTERLY WITHOUT WINGS. (ME)
 
DX, MDD, SEVERE BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER.
 
REMEMBER TO LOVE YOU. BE YOU AND BE TRUE.

Taygeta
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 164
   Posted 10/25/2010 10:42 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks, friends.
 
Siobhan:  You in return hit the other nail on the head in everything you said!!!!
 
One of those: "a lot of depression would dissolve if we had more understanding professionals on board. thats what the medical system lack severely as far as i am concerned.........................a great excuse for killing a load of vulnerable people off. and to me that is sad."
 
That is exactly how I feel.  I feel as if I'm being killed off - slowly, painfully.  With as little attention as depression seems to get, I feel it is inevitable that it will destroy everything about me and that there is truly no clear direction as to what will stop that from happening.  And in ways, the medical community just looks the other way.
 
We do understand it better because we experience it, and they (medical community) do not really understand it because if they did, they would be treating it in an entirely different light.  They would be searching for answers, not bandaids.
 
Jaime:  I cannot agree more with your comments - all of them!!!!
 
In particular:  "for me i know of my compunding factors, i know of my physical contributors, my addictive contributors and of my environmental contributors and of cause and effect situations, of baggage and of past trauma. this is how i define my depression, not just mental and not just physical, and not just about my current and past health, but of where i am at at any given time and date."
 
That is me to a tee as well.  What works one day, doesn't work the next.  I float in and out of depression not understanding the intertwining of all the causes and effects, though I know what many of my triggers are.  This past weekend was bad for me because I was depressed during the day, and even physical activity didn't shake it off - why - because I have situational things I can't resolve, and this weekend those overwhelmed me.  Then on top of that, I had insomnia both nights because I couldn't get that stuff out of my head - my situational things.  So I'm tired now, and fed up with a mind that cannot keep on an even keel, and I'm angered by my inability to do anything about it.
 
Yes - it is a tomography of some type that can be done - I couldn't think of the word last night. 
 
Understanding depression is everything to me.  Why.  How.  When.  It's part genetic for me, I'm sure of that based on some family history I cannot bring up on this forum as it would be purged - so you know what I am talking about. And the second part is environmental, which I believe feeds off the way we think - which is not the way most people think.
 
Depressed people are more in tune with reality than your "average" person.  I've always thought that I was more in tune, and I had confirmation of that recently through my therapist.  I've gone through life seeing things people don't get, and I've always wondered why.  I ask questions no one has thought of asking (or are afraid to ask), I question what is taken as truth, and I see people for what they are, and it frustrates me to no end that others cannot see the things I see.  In fact, I can often recognize people by their behavior more easily than their appearance.  I don't necessarily go out of my way to study someone's behavior, but subconsicously I must, and those behaviors must be burned into my memory.   
 
What follows describes me, but I am pretty sure it is also describes Jamie, and Siobhan, and  everyone else that suffers from depression.  We (the depressed ones) are closer to reality and because of that we see and feel the pain of reality more (people, animals, whatever).  And one result of that is it makes us more compassionate and empathetic toward that pain, but the other result is that the pain of reality effects us more (we can't tune it out), and it messes with our ability to function in a world in which much of the pain gets swept aside or ignored.
 
Scythia    
 


 

Trying to Understand
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 776
   Posted 10/25/2010 12:58 PM (GMT -6)   
Yes, there is a type of scan, I forgot which, it shows areas of your brain in color, heat I think. And they have seen that pts test shows changes after being on meds.
Trouble is 1. very expensive 2. what ifshows nothing is wrong with you there, eek
You already know something is wrong with your "thinking" and can tell that the meds are or aren't working.
And they are now saying that mental illnesses are as debilitating as physical ones, and have changed the terminology and classification of it as a physical illness, for insurance reasons, forcing ins to pay for treatment if there was a loophole in the coverage.
And there are lots of physical causes, as you mentioned hormones, thyroid, adrenal gland problems, estrogen/testosterone in both sexes, and probably more I can't think of right now. This is supposedly addressed when you go to your GP and get blood tests.
Yes, we are very sensitive and empathetic in general. Very introspective. "Well" people just don't have the need to self-examine their thoughts and feelings the same as us. My mil once said that everyone she ever knew who had therapy, analyzed the daylights out of EVERYTHING. As for her, she did whatever she d**** well pleased, and didn't spend much time thinking about how others felt about it.
It seems to me that the things we suffered in our chioldhood formed us, PTSD made it worse, and the results have caused us to have this "affliction". Day to day life is difficult because our old hurts keep getting bumped or scratched open.
There are a couple books about Bipolar, Bipolar done right, and something else by Tom Wooten. They feel that this way we are can be used to find success in the world, there are many actors, writers, musicians that have done so. Also the DaVinci method, advertises that we can be very successful entrepreneurs because we are so driven at times, seemingly not needing sleep or a regular life. Geniuses in fact.
Sandy
BP II
Severe depression

Respect baby steps. Most work gets done an inch at a time.

Taygeta
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 164
   Posted 10/25/2010 7:07 PM (GMT -6)   
Hey Sandy,
 
Thanks.  You are intuitive as always!  You are so right - we examine our own thoughts and even examine why we are examining them. 
 
I like the way you use "well" and "affliction."  Perhaps you will connect with this - am I the one who has problems dealing with the world, or is it because the world is the way it is that it gives me fits to deal with it?  Perhaps it is the world that is "afflicted" and I am the "well" one.
 
What is wrong with having compassion for other people?  What is wrong with showing true compassion and understanding?  What is wrong with introspection?  What is wrong with thinking of the consequences before speaking or acting? 
 
If the world wasn't so impulsive, so unforgiving, so callous, so bent on forcing people to sacrifice their souls just to make a dime, maybe we wouldn't have as many problems dealing with it as we do. 
 
We are down at times because we feel no one cares.  The truth is - most of the world does not care, and I believe the world SHOULD care more than it does.  Not necessarily about us, but about those in need in general, and there are always people in need.
 
Scythia
 
 

Trying to Understand
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 776
   Posted 10/25/2010 8:16 PM (GMT -6)   
Well, I think its us that can't get along in the world well. I'm thinking of how often I have failed at jobs because something kind of sets me off, unjust, unfair, etc. I do not roll with the punches.

Perhaps we are too sympathetic, I learned in school 40 yrs ago that if I wanted to be a good nurse I would have to learn to be empathetic, not sympathetic. That was my first effort in the working world, it failed after a couple years. Even office jobs were the same for me, just can't stand being around some of "them", selfish, inconsiderate, cut-throat. I don't fit in.

You could say everyone in the world is afflicted to some extent, but not so many are isolated in their homes, dependent on docs/therapists and meds to maintain a baseline of "normal", as we are. The bottom line is that we are not functioning well in the world, and so our success, feeling like part of the greater good, is diminished.

I don't have it in me to be part of the rat race. Haven't been able to do it when I tried, now don't care to try anymore. I did my best when the kids were young, getting along with teachers, coaches, friends mothers. I'm not comfortable with my depression, elation, but at least I don't have to fake it so much. That's exhausting. But you do what you gotta do, I guess. Hanging in as long as possible, to support and take care of yourself.

My current problem dragging me down: my grown son out of state is graduating from the police academy in Dec. and for the past 1 1/2 yrs we have been in touch on every aspect of the hiring process. His dad was against it, my son told me this. Now his Dad is flying out too, and so I'm OK with myself seeing him at the graduation, but time with my son, who I've not seen in 5 yrs., will be cut short. In my current state, I don't welcome a long flight, renting my own car, seeing the ex and wife, being in a crowd of people and well-wishers, there are alot, and NOT being able to have 2 lousy GD days with my kid. Too many of the things that exhaust me. I was so "up" for it, I'm sad because I don't think I can handle that, and the worst is what if I fall apart there. Too much stress. It has piled up too high for me.

I hate the world. It has always let me down. But expected the most of me.
I'm trying to understand, but may change to "drained dry" in the future, ha ha :(
Sandy
BP II
Severe depression

Respect baby steps. Most work gets done an inch at a time.

Trying to Understand
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 776
   Posted 10/25/2010 8:26 PM (GMT -6)   
Got off on a tangent, but there is nothing wrong with compassion and introspection , just that "we" take it way too far. It gets in the way of our ability to function.
Don't know about your situation, but I am tired of being a great nothing, and regardless of what I think of to "do", I just don't have the energy to face the world. This will pass. Realize Oct. has historically "done this" to me. This will pass.

I forced myself to go out today and return some things at stores, thats what happens I go out - STUFF comes back with me. No longer want to go to the Halloween party, bake for it and "friends" just as something fun to do, and had to unload the STUFF. It did add up. Was sad and miserable the whole time, thought going out would help, at least a litt

Had an inkling this might happen, saying I was in remission, having just a little hypomania, laughing on the border of hysteria, better than crying, and now am just like a balloon that was full of air and zipped around till there was none left. A stretched out piece of limp rubber.

Maybe I would have been better off not even going out into the world in the first place. I was trying to act healthy for a change for my husband, and me too.

Drained Dry

Trying to Understand
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 776
   Posted 10/26/2010 2:54 AM (GMT -6)   
Skythia
Since we're philosophizing, thought you might be interested in this which I received in my mailbox just now:
Mindful Monday: 10 Inspiring Quotes for a Depressed Heart

Posted: 25 Oct 2010 08:00 AM PDT
Anya flowers quotes for depression.jpg One of Beliefnet's most popular galleries is "10 Inspiring Quotes for a Depressed Heart." I've included several of them here.


* "Have patience with all things, but chiefly have patience with yourself. Do not lose courage in considering your own imperfections but instantly set about remedying them -- every day begin the task anew." --Saint Francis de Sales

* "A pearl is a beautiful thing that is produced by an injured life. It is the tear [that results] from the injury of the oyster. The treasure of our being in this world is also produced by an injured life. If we had not been wounded, if we had not been injured, then we will not produce the pearl." --Stephan Hoeller

* "Sometimes your joy is the source of your smile, but sometimes your smile can be the source of your joy." --Thich Nhat Hanh

* "Good humor is a tonic for mind and body. It is the best antidote for anxiety and depression. It is a business asset. It attracts and keep friends. It lightens human burdens. It is the direct route to serenity and contentment." --Greenville Kleisser

* "Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, ambition inspired, and success achieved." --Helen Keller

* "Pain insists upon being attended to. God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our consciences, but shouts in our pains. It is his megaphone to rouse a deaf world." --C.S. Lewis

* "The greatest degree of inner tranquility comes from the development of love and compassion. The more we care for the happiness of others, the greater is our own sense of well-being." --Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th Dalai Lama

* "What you thought before has led to every choice you have made, and this adds up to you at this moment. If you want to change who you are physically, mentally, and spiritually, you will have to change what you think." --Dr. Patrick Gentempo

* Click here to subscribe to Beyond Blue and click here to follow Therese on Twitter and click here to join Group Beyond Blue, a depression support group. Now stop clicking.

Sort of what we've been discussing, I think.
You gotta get into some of these newsletters. They are food for thought usually.
Sandy
BP II
Severe depression

Respect baby steps. Most work gets done an inch at a time.

Trying to Understand
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2010
Total Posts : 776
   Posted 10/26/2010 3:03 AM (GMT -6)   
And yet another

From Marcia Purse, your Guide to Bipolar Disorder
I enjoy roleplaying, and among the characters I interact with are several vampires and werewolves and even a zombie who is one of my character's best friends. But I've run into the real-life counterparts of these fantastic beings, too, and those are a lot more difficult to deal with.

Vampires, Werewolves and Zombies
Everyone runs into these creatures - draining your energy, making you rage, swallowing you whole, poisoning your life. But a person who has bipolar or another mood disorder, dealing with these toxic people can be especially difficult.

Share Your Experiences With Toxicity
Now you can share a more lengthy story about the people whose behavior has a toxic effect on you and what you've done about it - or, if you've realized you are toxic, what you've been doing and how you want to change, or have changed, in your behavior.

Avoiding Toxic People
Here are my tips for dealing with those vampires, werewolves, zombies and other toxic people who can make your life harder than it needs to be.

Readers Toxic People Short Tips *THIS IS A GOOD ONE, REGARDING COMPASSION
A large collection of readers' stories about the toxic people in their lives and how they've coped.

Each of these headings is underlined, and you click it for a different article.
Maybe you could get on this if you check aboutbipolar.com/ vampires,werewolves , zombies YOU CAN MANAGE TO LOCATE THIS ONLINE I THINK.
Sometimes they're better than others, I think this is a good one
Sandy
BP II
Severe depression

Respect baby steps. Most work gets done an inch at a time.

Post Edited (Trying to Understand) : 10/26/2010 3:18:04 AM (GMT-6)

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