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Tirzah
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2317
   Posted 1/18/2011 11:21 PM (GMT -6)   
What is wrong with me??!! Why on earth do I ever talk to my mom? I was doing so much better & then I broke down today and ended up talking to her after I did some troubleshooting for her PC.

So now I feel like #$%^. A complete loser and a failure at life. I am so far behind on my bills & I accepted a short-term loan from her for my meds the other day (worst decision I've made in some time) and of course she had to throw it at me that I'm not trying hard enough. That if I would just keep my home cleaner I would find a job & be married & be rich & live happily ever after. I might actually make the effort to keep my home spotless if that were the case.

I am in pain, and I'm broke, and I don't have a job, and I'm living in a home that's been foreclosed, and I can't afford my medicine, and I can't even afford the very reduced price co-pay for my counselor. I was thinking that I just want to die ... but I promised myself I wasn't going to give in and set my sights on becoming who she wants me to me.

I am trying to get my life together, but it's just really hard. I'm going to grad school full-time and trying to get work where I can and going on interviews. I've found some programs to get some of my meds for free, but I'm waiting on approval. That will take a couple weeks. I got grants to cover almost my entire MEd program and am applying for scholarships to cover my last quarter of schooling. So by September, things should turn around. They're just really bleak right now.

I can't tell her about school or volunteering in a friend's classroom or any of that b/c I know she will just tear me down. So ... I'm trying so hard to be strong & keep it all together & not fall apart and give up on everything. I don't want to give up, nor can I afford to b/c if I drop out of school I'll have to repay all my grant money. I have big dreams about opening my own school one day & it just irritates me to no end that she can, in a 30 minutes phone conversation, tear me down to nothing. Why is that someone whose values I don't even share can make all the comments about me being a good student, worthy of publishing, a caring teacher, etc. feel untrue? I don't even like my mom. We have totally opposing values. And yet when she is ashamed of me I feel like I need to hurry up and change my entire life so she can be happy for me.

I guess I'm getting a little better. I don't want to end my life or anything like that. But I did think about it for a second. I don't want to give up on my dreams or anything. But I didn't get any of my studying done today. I don't want to pursue the goals she has for my life. But I spent the day re-evaluating my own goals for no good reason at all. what do I need to do to stop this insane vie for approval? I'm sick of competing against this imaginary ideal of hers. I'll never be that daughter & I don't even want to be. and yet I can barely stand that she's mad at me.

what's wrong with me??!!!

theHTreturns...
Elite Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 20279
   Posted 1/18/2011 11:32 PM (GMT -6)   
beleive in you sweetie, beleive in your dreams, beleive in your ideals. you have and are facing sooo much -albeit you push through and find a way forward. i am always inspired by you. you give me much strength and hope. do all of what you have posted for you. sorry frances, i struggle with longer posts, memory goes, you keep pushin' for the grants and scholarships. your effort in finding and persuing stuff is remarkable, and your wisdom, within yourself and here on the forums is second to none!!!!!!!!!!!!! hang in there. proud of ya. with compassion, jamie
SCHIZO-AFFECTIVE DISORDER, EMOTIONALLY UNSTABLE PERSONALITY DISORDER, BORDERLINE TYPE -AXIS 2 , BI-POLAR AFFECTIVE DISORDER AXIS 1

REMEMBER TO LOVE YOU. BE YOU AND BE TRUE.

Tirzah
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2317
   Posted 1/19/2011 12:29 AM (GMT -6)   
thanks, jamiee.
I think I just need to start over again with cutting her off. The time she was traveling with my Dad was the best month of my life recently. Somehow I need to draw on that for strength & not take her calls, not call her & avoid her completely. easier said than done. :(

theHTreturns...
Elite Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 20279
   Posted 1/19/2011 12:53 AM (GMT -6)   
true. one day at a time frances. :-) jamie. keep hanging in. here 4 ya.
SCHIZO-AFFECTIVE DISORDER, EMOTIONALLY UNSTABLE PERSONALITY DISORDER, BORDERLINE TYPE -AXIS 2 , BI-POLAR AFFECTIVE DISORDER AXIS 1

REMEMBER TO LOVE YOU. BE YOU AND BE TRUE.

getting by
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 42612
   Posted 1/19/2011 7:20 AM (GMT -6)   
Frances,

I had to cut my mom off too because she was detrimental to my health. Years ago. It is sad, but sometimes we have to do that. You are a wonderful person, don't ever forgett that.

Hugs, Karen
  Moderator-Depression and fibromyalgia
 
fibromyalgia, Chronic fatigue, depression,allergies

Tirzah
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2317
   Posted 1/19/2011 3:00 PM (GMT -6)   
Karen,
How did you do it? I get fed up & overwhelmed periodically & swear off talking to her for a period. I usually can manage the short term "breaks" from her -- one to three months -- but trying to go longer has not been successful. She is often very manipulative & tries to put guilt trips on me. She makes it seem like she's caring but really it comes across as self-indulgent. e.g. saying that my depression makes her unable to eat so if I really cared out about her I would just snap out of it.

I used to think those were just normal things that any mom with a depressed child would say. I thought I was to blame for all of her problems. But in the few sessions I've had with my new counselor, she said it's really not typical and definitely not a healthy response to a sick child. She thought maybe my mom has NPD. I'm not sure whether she does or not, but some of the things ring true. The sad thing is that people with NPD are incapable of changing. If they ever go to a counselor, they don't tell the truth & when confronted they lie and then verbally attack the counselor, berate her & stop going to sessions. That description fits my mom to a tee.

I've known for many years that she's not likely to change; it's just hard b/c when it suits her she can play nice for a short while. The thing is, it seems that the only reason she ever plays nice is to rope me back in to her web of meanness & insanity. How on earth can I counsel people who are abused & yet in my own life, when all the signs are there, I can't seem to save myself?

My apologies to all for the long posts. I am just trying to sort all this out. I'm also realizing that I may have inadvertently picked up some of my mother's ill behaviors as bad habits of my own (rambling on & on). I want to work on that as soon as I can get a job & have a little money to continue counseling. In the meantime, thanks for being patient and ever understanding.

getting by
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 42612
   Posted 1/19/2011 3:19 PM (GMT -6)   
I love reading your posts Frances. They are so wise and interesting. I had a problem with my blood sugars because of the stress that my mother caused me and my diabetes counselor told me to stay away from her so I had to. She knew her as my mom was a diabetic too. My mother was also a paranoid schitzophrenic and bipolar. She was so very manipulative and put me on the guilt trips so bad that I felt guilty for being born. But once I got away from her I started doing much better and that is why I ended up doing it. She ended up having to go into a foster care home for a long time, but then got a place of her own. She was in a senior citizen complex. It actually did her good too to seperate from me. She started living life some. I think we just brought out the worst in eachother. I felt bad, as my grandmother lived with her, but when she left I took care of my grandmother. So it worked out.

I feel for you Frances, I know that you love her with all of your heart. And I am sure that she loves you too. It is just the way that she is and maybe she can't even help it. She has gotten use to manipulating to get what she wants, when she could probably just ask for it. I think it becomes a control thing for people, but I don't quite understand it as I am not that way. Sometimes it blows my mind to see what lengths some people go to to get what they want. And some people have to live in turmoil, with drama in their lives. They could get along perfectly but I think it is another control issue on their part. They cause the drama and then get sympathy or attention at the end. For me, it is hard enough to get through each day and I can't handle drama in my life. I like things to go smoothly.

I sure do hope that you can take a break from all this. Maybe a couple of months as you have been doing and each time, you will get stronger. It made me stronger when I was away from my mother. And she even noticed it. We had to go to probate court when I got gaurdianship of my grandmother, and also conservator. She saw me and even said I looked better when I wasn't around her. It was sad. And actually in court, my grandmother was my mother because she adopted me. My mother was nothing. And she couldn't stand that. But it was the law.

Now I have rattled on. This kind of brings back a lot of memories. Not bad because they had a good outcome. It is such a long story of greed and manipulation. But I can truly say I know how you feel. When you have done nothing but love and try to help the other person and you show respect. But they don't show anything back but use you. I am so sorry you are going through this. Know that she probably doesn't even know what she is doing. But that doesn't make it hurt any less.

We are all here for you Frances.

Hugs, Karen
  Moderator-Depression and fibromyalgia
 
fibromyalgia, Chronic fatigue, depression,allergies

Tirzah
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2317
   Posted 1/19/2011 4:55 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks, Karen. Actually, though my mom says she loves me ... I'm pretty sure it's not actually true. The counselor said that NPD's don't actually have the capacity to love anyone other than themselves. So the only love she has for me is to the extent that she sees her desires being fulfilled through me or to the extent that she sees herself reflected in me.
It's really almost impossible to accept that. Probably most people want to be loved & I'm no exception. But her "love", or what she calls love, is highly conditional. And the reason I say I don't think it's real is b/c she will say she loves me & when I tell her that I don't have the skill/time/energy to do some enormous task for her, she tells me that she can't stand me. It's like an evil rollercoaster ride every time I allow her in my life.
Though I hate hospitals, there was one really kind night counselor who broke the rules & came to talk with me. I was there, long story short, b/c someone lied & told me I was hallucinating and I accepted that prima facie. No one else had ever told me told me that until this one renter who had lived with me for 6 months did. He challenged me about why did I give her opinion more weight than my own opinion. I didn't really have a good answer at the time, but have discovered it goes back to how I was raised. My mom would always try to make me out to be crazy in order to make herself seem like a better mother. My brother couldn't have been beating my sister & me b/c that would make her a bad mother, so I must have been mistaken. The bruises came from accidents that I didn't remember or didn't want to admit to. And I needed to cover them up b/c otherwise people might get the "wrong impression" that she was a bad mother.

I see how people respond to me here at HW. When I accidentally hurt them, they come right out & say they're hurt and want an apology. There's no hinting around or threatening to kill themselves or whatever. And when I do something to help someone, they're genuinely appreciative. They say so. They don't blame me for not helping them other times or tell me that at least I got it right and better make an effort to continue to do so in the future.

The simplest analogy (and it took me a long time to realize it) is to compare my mom to the mom on Two and a Half Men. She's great at her job. She can be very personable when she wants to be. But everything revolves around her. No one else is entitled to have feelings unless they are the feelings she wants us to have. We can only be happy when she wants us to be happy & heaven help us if we're sad at an inconvenient time (which is pretty much all the time). Our careers are only valued to the extent that she can brag about them & get positive attention from other people, or to the extent that the can use them to brow beat her other children. She would ridicule me for hours on end about the fact that I was raising money to help out a food pantry at a local church -- that is, until one of her friends mentioned at a luncheon that I had single-handedly raised enough to fund the program for the rest of the year. Well, all of the sudden, it was great that I was volunteering ... I just had to work harder to get my name out there (which I wasn't even remotely interested in doing).

I got so much done when she & my dad (who's view is that we shouldn't do anything to upset my mom) were out of the country. I've been thinking I'd like to work abroad myself, but it will take a couple of years to get that together and I don't want to fall apart in the meantime. I've had so many friends over the years say they can always tell when I've started talking to my mom again b/c I get really down on myself, don't get much accomplished & seem to think that I'm unworthy of their friendships (which I probably am; I have the greatest friends ever). They are beyond kind & ought to be enough for me.

I just don't get it with my mom. Even my closest friend who I had to take a break from for a while when she got herself trapped in a serious addiction (well multiple addictions, really) and became very selfish b/c of it was never as bad as my mom is. And after getting help she's back to being kind & considering others' feelings again. My mom just doesn't seem to have the capacity to do that.

When you said you mom was greedy it kinda hit on something for me. She's not so much greedy for money as she is for attention, praise, and getting things HER way. She wants me to love her unconditionally. She wants me to take care of her needs. And she says she wants to reciprocate, but I cannot for the life of me figure out how she can say that she is helping me by making up nonsense statements like "everyone else can find work right now except for you so it must just be that b/c you refuse to clean your house you have low self-esteem and that is subconsciously causing you to write crappy resumes that are sending out a message to the world that you are unorganized and unemployable." WHAT?! Wait, I mean WWWHHHAAATTTT????!!!! ***? that doesn't even make any sense in any world, time, dimension, or culture. it is just complete nonsense. The stated unemployment rate in my state is 11% and the estimated real unemployment rate is 25%. I don't value myself or anyone else by how clean their house is. I've had professionals look at my resumes and cover letters & they consistently get positive feedback. And just b/c my home isn't clean doesn't mean I'm not organized. I am.
But there's no point in trying to reason with her. She wants me to clean my house b/c she believes I should have a clean house b/c she has a clean house. She's heard the news reports about how high the unemployment rate is but chooses to ignore it when it's convenient for her to do so. And for some bizarre-o reason, she's jealous that I went to college. She has plenty of money to go to college. My dad would love to pay for her to complete her last 2 years of coursework. They have enough money that she wouldn't even have to work if she didn't want to. So, there's absolutely no reason at all to be jealous. It's just non-sense. But she keeps throwing it out there that I have a college degree and college degrees guarantee you will always have a job, according to her. My degree is in Spanish Literature. There's not to many non-teaching jobs out there for people with no business experience & no business coursework who have an LAS degree in general, but especially foreign language majors.
And yet, I get roped into defending myself. It's dumb for me to bother. It's even dumber for me to get upset. Who gets upset by an illogical argument? But I just really wish I could do something to make her accept me. I know that's not possible. I could make $800M per year, be President of the United States, be married to the next Bill Gates, and win a Nobel Peace Prize & she's still find something wrong with me -- probably the fact that my house wasn't clean. lol. So I need to find a way to not want her acceptance. Gosh, I feel like my heart is being torn out of me. This is so painful to face the truth that she will never, ever, never, ever accept me. It feels like a crushing pain in my chest. I am so sad.

Thanks for your support. i don't know how i could continue to try to fight this battle without it. Mostly people don't understand how hard it is to cut a parent mostly or entirely out of your life. I know I'll be better off for it but it's just all these feelings crashing in on me -- sadness that I'll never have the relationship I want, fear that I'll regret my decision one day, anger that it's come to this point due to her stubbornness (I don't know for sure about the NPD, but she's been dx'ed with bipolar & hasn't taken meds for 35 years except for maybe 4 days last year when she promised she'd do better), resentment, shame b/c I feel like it's wrong to stop talking to your parents, hope that I can pull my life back together b/c I've been able to do that before when I've cut her off, relief that I've made the decision (sort of), pity that she'll miss out on so much, confidence that I really do have life skills in spite of her statements to the contrary, and love b/c I think I'll probably always have some small place tucked away in the very back of my heart that will love her just b/c she is a living being, she is my mother, and she is loved by God.

okay, well, now I am just a mess & need to pull it together for my 5:00 class. hope everyone's doing okay today.

peace,
frances

getting by
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 42612
   Posted 1/19/2011 6:09 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Frances,

The one thing that I want you to promise is that you will not blame yourself for your mother's problems. She is who she is. You may be right, she may never accept you. But that is just because of her illness. And if you distance yourself, you can always see her again. So I think that the less time spent with her the better. I know that you love her, but I don't think you can change the way that things are.

When you told me that she was bipolar, it all started making sense. That is probably why she acts the way that she does. As my mother was too. Very moody. Would snap in a second. My mother only loved herself too. She had other daughters and would like to get everybody mad at eachother and she would get all of the attention. She was in the hospital many times and for long lenths of time. I think she was in for about six years at one point. But back then she drank and they didn't understand mental health issues as much. They had different antidepressants too. So she didn't get the best of care. She lost all of her kids. It was so sad. But she always blamed somebody else instead of accepting the responsibility of her drinking. Now she would probably get the help that she needed and things would come out different. But it can't be changed and I do accept it. Though it was hard. I wanted to blame her for everything. I wanted to hate her. I couldn't.

I know that you will be able to sort this out. It is just that you are facing so much right now. Too bad your mom doesn't take the medications that she is suppose to. That is selfish on her part. It would make everybody's life better. Even for your dad and for herself. I wish she could see what she was doing to you and care about it too. You are such a good person Frances. It is hard when our parents try to brain wash us. My mother did that too. I grew up having to learn what everything was really about. And I am sure you did too. To know the truth of things. And to be able to tell what is the truth. After you have been told something for so long, you really can't tell which way is up anymore. And you are afraid to trust anybody. I know I was. I guess if I figured my mom could lie to me then anybody could then I got paranoid. But that is in the past. It is much better now and it will be for you too. This too shall work out. Try not to over think it. That is so easy to do. Especially when you are trying to figure things out. Be good to you. You deserve this. Try to relax. It is hard, but can be done. Most of all love yourself. I have learned that if I don't, nobody else will. And like you say, we all want to feel loved. Your'e good people Frances. Don't blame yourself for anything. Don't feel that you aren't worthy of love, because you are. As long as your mom doesn't take her meds, she is going to be hurtful and manipulative. And maybe it is just in her personality. If she is like Charlie's mom. I watch that show all the time. lol...

I think I have rambled on enough. This brought back memories. Good ones too. Not just bad. I haven't thought about my mother in a long time, she died in 95. Alone... Sad, but true.

I hope that you do feel better soon. I hope that you made your class on time and feeling okay. It should take your mind off of things. A nice distraction.

Take care...

Hugs, Karen
  Moderator-Depression and fibromyalgia
 
fibromyalgia, Chronic fatigue, depression,allergies

Chartreux
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 9664
   Posted 1/19/2011 8:47 PM (GMT -6)   
Frances,
Your way to hard on yourself, give yourself a break, you are a wonderful
caring and considerate person, you do have value and merit and you
are in no way worthless, okay...
You also give awesome advise, kudos and Thanks for that...
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Frances))))))))))))))))))))))))))
please know you are one of the best persons I know....Healing Hugz
**********************************************
* Asthma, Allergies, Osteoarthritis, Spinal Stenosis, Degenative Disc (Lower Lumbar S1-L3 and Cervical C5,C6, C8 and T1), Fibromyalgia, Gerd,
Enlarged Pituitary Gland, Sjogren's, Ocular Migraines, mild carpel tunnel, ect.... "Would be nice if we could use the edit button in real life"...

********>^..^<********>^..^<********>^..^<********

Tirzah
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 2317
   Posted 1/20/2011 12:50 AM (GMT -6)   
Karen,
Thanks so much for helping me sort through this. It is all very chaotic & I kinda swung the opposite way you did. Instead of feeling like I could trust no one, I felt that I should trust everyone, but couldn't trust myself. So I would believe any nonsense even perfect strangers would spout off about me, rather than holding on to the trust that I am sane, smart and sufficient. I doubt everything about myself, and honestly that's an improvement over how I used to feel which was that I was the very worst person in the whole wide world. That's how I landed in the hospital the first time -- believing some evil woman who wanted to live in the home I owned all by herself. She was sick of having me as a roommate & decided to drive me out of my own home. And I fell for it.

A friend & co-worker challenged me that I didn't need to have so much drama in my life. I resisted that at first, but I now see the wisdom in it. I can choose not to allow my mom in my life. I can choose to believe positive things about myself & to surround myself with others who believe positive things about me. I'm realizing that's it's not actually kind to point out people's flaws all the time. Friends accept you as you are & every once in a blue moon ask if you want help improving one single aspect of yourself. They don't pick you apart. Most of my friends are like that. I guess I just need to spend more time around them -- and the people here at HW. ;) Thanks, as always, for your kind, wise, and encouraging words.

Chart,
You are so sweet. Ever ready with a word of encouragement even though I know you're going through a tough time yourself right now. I am trying to see myself more realistically. I know I maybe repeat myself a lot & I appreciate everyone's patience with me. I have to keep reminding myself that I am not who my mom says I am. I do not have to accept the ugly duckling role in that family. I just read that story to my 2nd graders (kids are always full of wisdom) and was reminded that just b/c we don't fit in one place doesn't mean we're ugly or unworthy. Once the "ugly duckling" found the swans, he realized that was where he really belonged. All the mean things that were said began to hurt less when he was around kindred spirits and eventually the ugly duck even became well regarded among those he grew up with.

I think somehow I need to apply that simple wisdom to my own life. Start spending my time around like-minded people so I can grow into the beautiful creation God intends for me to be. I'm not too hopeful my natural family will ever come to regard me positively, but maybe that's not the most important part of the story. Maybe being around others who see me as a beautiful soul & coming to regard myself in the same way is enough. idk. I'm just glad to be around you all whilst I'm figuring this all out.

hugz,
frances

theHTreturns...
Elite Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 20279
   Posted 1/20/2011 2:13 AM (GMT -6)   
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS 2 U))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
JAMIE
SCHIZO-AFFECTIVE DISORDER, EMOTIONALLY UNSTABLE PERSONALITY DISORDER, BORDERLINE TYPE -AXIS 2 , BI-POLAR AFFECTIVE DISORDER AXIS 1

REMEMBER TO LOVE YOU. BE YOU AND BE TRUE.

getting by
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 42612
   Posted 1/20/2011 8:22 AM (GMT -6)   
(((((((((Frances))))))))))

You are so sweet. Keep working on this. You will get through it and we will help you. Know yourself as the strong individual that you are. You are very wise and so helpful here. Always remember that.

We all love you!

Hugs, Karen
  Moderator-Depression and fibromyalgia
 
fibromyalgia, Chronic fatigue, depression,allergies

Sad & Angry
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 211
   Posted 1/20/2011 10:40 AM (GMT -6)   
Dear Frances,
 
I read through all of the post, and I too am in the same pedicrement as you. I lived all my life with a mother who was manupulative, greedy and vicious. The thing is, I don't know if she had bipolar or even schriphrenia, b/c she was never diagnozed with it. And even then, she would not have allowed herself or put herself to be diagnozed.
 
But I left her 22 years ago, and she was trying her level best to come and live with me. I didn't allow that! I know how she is. I have gone through everything you mentioned about your mother. Put down about jobs, house not clean enough, she even made sure I never got any of the inheritance. She would manipulate so much, she would even get her relatives or our friends, to call me and listen to about her life. But I didn't flinch. I know her type, and I knew the kind of hold she had on me. So I completely ignored her. (my father died 30 years ago)
 
But I tell you it was not easy! No matter how much I ignore, she would get someone to call me up! And theat would annoy me and drive me nuts some more. I too ended up having high blood preassure like Karen. The stress of her got to me.
 
Well, she died in 2009, and frankly for a while, I felt so relieved. But last year 2010, all this hit me, and I went into a deep depression, and was hospitalized. Now I am without a job, and that too is not easy. The unemployment rate here too, is very bad. Since coming out of the hospital, (in October) now finding a job is another.
 
But Frances, I understand very well what you have said.
 
You will have to find a way, not to have anything to do with her. Try as much as possible, to avoid her! B.c she is toxic. And you have to learn to believe in yourself. Although I tell you, I know when my mother criticed me, I too would go into pieces. I believed her, and wanted her to accept me. But you have to know, she will not change. And I am telling you, that avoiding her and staying away from her will not be easy! B/c she is not going to like it. She will look for you and somehow find away to get at you. That is when you should be strong.
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