A positive mindset/attitude is not enough

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SuperMarioGamer
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 39
   Posted 10/24/2017 5:24 PM (GMT -7)   
Many people would tell you that, if you want your life to have good value, joy, beauty, love, and worth, to have a positive mindset where you believe that your life is good, beautiful, joyful, loving, and worth living. But it was never about the mindsets (our ways of thinking) themselves because they, themselves, do not actually give our lives any real good value, bad value, or worth. This is because having a positive or negative mindset is not any real positive or negative quality mental state and, thus, no real good or bad value in your life. It would be no different than water.

Water is an actual quality and having the belief/mindset that you have it in your life would not give you any real water. In order to have water in your life, then you need actual water. With this being said, what would be the real positive and negative quality? It would be our positive and negative emotions. Positive emotions would be biochemical induced states such as a feeling of excitement or joy from getting a new movie or a feeling of love.

Negative emotions would be something such as a feeling of despair, anger, sadness, or misery. Again, mindsets themselves are not the same thing as emotions. If you struggled with depression or misery, then just thinking to yourself that you are having a positive emotional state such as feeling excited to go to the carnival would not give you any real excitement. That is, thinking and believing you are excited is not the same thing as actually being excited.

The same idea applies to having good and bad value in our lives. The positive and negative qualities (our positive and negative emotions) would be qualities of good and bad. So, if you wanted your life to have the greatest good value, then you would need to be in the most blissful state of your life. Likewise, if you wanted your life to have the worst value, then you would need to be in the worst negative emotional state of your life.

But who would want their lives to be the worst? I know I wouldn't. With all of this being said, even though positive and negative emotions are the only real good and bad in our lives, making wise decisions should still not be dismissed. For example, during my worst miserable moments, I have still chosen to get the help I needed. Likewise, during my most blissful moments, I have chosen to not do anything reckless.

I think only stupid people would use this whole idea of our emotions being the real good and bad as a means to do reckless and harmful things to themselves and/or others around them. One last thing here and this is an important question. Isn't everything I have just said here something we already know for a scientific fact? Wouldn't the qualities of good and bad have to be a scientific definition of good and bad?

Furthermore, wouldn't this also mean that all those famous and genius artists out there who have struggled with misery, depression, and despair had no real good value, worth, and beauty in their lives through creating their works of art regardless of what they believed otherwise? They would need at least a small degree of positive emotions mixed in with their misery to give them some good values in their lives.

If that is so, then positive emotions are the only way to live and they are the only way to be an artist since they are the only things that can truly make our lives and artistic endeavors good, beautiful, and worth living for. My own personal experience supports this quite well. I have struggled for 10 years with the worst misery and hopelessness induced by stressful life events and obsessive thinking. They were the worst negative emotional states of my life.

During that whole entire time, not a single moment was any real good value, beauty, joy, or worth in my life regardless of the fact that I believed certain things still had those said values such as the idea of getting the help I needed. After all, me getting the help I needed to regain my positive emotions would certainly be a good and beautiful thing for a hedonist such as myself. But the fact that there was no real good values in my life at all supports this whole idea I've just talked about.

But the moment I have fully recovered from such miserable states was the moment all of the good values were, in a way, magically brought back into my life again which supports the idea that there is something more that gives our lives good value than our mindsets. It would have to be the good quality (my positive emotions) being restored back into my life again.

It was like I was someone deprived of the sacred water of goodness I needed in my life and personally defining it to be there didn't work for me since it wasn't the real sacred water. It is only once I have fully recovered that this sacred water, metaphorically speaking, has returned back into my life again. It was like there was something blocking the flow of it in my life which created a drought. Recovering was like getting rid of that blockage and, thus, allowing the flow of this sacred water back into my life again.

Post Edited (SuperMarioGamer) : 10/25/2017 9:15:18 PM (GMT-6)


kellyinCali
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 292
   Posted 10/25/2017 2:31 PM (GMT -7)   
You wrote: //But the moment I have fully recovered from such miserable states was the moment all of the good values were, in a way, magically brought back into my life again which supports the idea that there is something more that gives our lives good value than our mindsets. It would have to be the good quality (my positive emotions) being restored back into my life again.//

I am always confused by your posts because I do not understand your objective. What are you trying to accomplish when you post the same thing over and over again?

Are you suggesting that we can only recover from "such miserable states" ****MAGICALLY****? You go on to say that there is something more that give our lives good value other than our mindsets. Is that the "magic" you speak of? I am particularly interested in your thoughts about your statement:

//It would have to be the good quality (my positive emotions) being restored back into my life again.//

How do you think these positive emotions are restored into your life? Can you give me an example?

I understand that you are asserting that we cannot control out "good emotions" and "bad emotions" by simply changing our mindset. I actually agree with you here. I think I might very well have Bipolar II, because my depression (and anxiety) seems to not always require a specific "trigger." I cannot enjoy life while in a depressed state. It is very difficult to even "fake it till you make it" because until the good emotions are restored, just changing ones mindset to be positive does not *really* work. At least not for me. It may "appear" that way to outsiders but the depression is more than my mindset. The depression is robbing my ability to feel good emotions.

F27
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2016
Total Posts : 866
   Posted 10/25/2017 2:56 PM (GMT -7)   
@kellyinCali - I think it helps if you're high. Like really, really high.

@SMG - Try harder to break out of your thought loop. Your pathology isn't depression, but some other mental illness. Have you explored your obsession with this topic with a professional? You may be surprised to find out that the real issue here is how much you obsess over this topic, not if there's value in life without some ephemeral secret sauce.

You need to explore this with a doctor lest it consume you completely. Good luck.

ambling
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 626
   Posted 10/25/2017 4:15 PM (GMT -7)   
Yes, it is true that you cannot 'think' your way out of deep depression. That is why it is important to have help available, and to have a plan in place.

Everything in life is in motion. It is the way of life that, for example, night follows day. People don't stay in one emotional state forever, even if they do nothing at all.

The tortured artist does not stay in their intense state of mind all the time.
Thinking, and feeling, are separate but intertwined. They affect each other but cannot annihilate one another.

The outside world affects us. We are part of the flow, not separated from the ever changing environment.

SuperMarioGamer
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 39
   Posted 10/25/2017 7:04 PM (GMT -7)   
kellyinCali said...
You wrote: //But the moment I have fully recovered from such miserable states was the moment all of the good values were, in a way, magically brought back into my life again which supports the idea that there is something more that gives our lives good value than our mindsets. It would have to be the good quality (my positive emotions) being restored back into my life again.//

I am always confused by your posts because I do not understand your objective. What are you trying to accomplish when you post the same thing over and over again?

Are you suggesting that we can only recover from "such miserable states" ****MAGICALLY****? You go on to say that there is something more that give our lives good value other than our mindsets. Is that the "magic" you speak of? I am particularly interested in your thoughts about your statement:

//It would have to be the good quality (my positive emotions) being restored back into my life again.//

How do you think these positive emotions are restored into your life? Can you give me an example?

I understand that you are asserting that we cannot control out "good emotions" and "bad emotions" by simply changing our mindset. I actually agree with you here. I think I might very well have Bipolar II, because my depression (and anxiety) seems to not always require a specific "trigger." I cannot enjoy life while in a depressed state. It is very difficult to even "fake it till you make it" because until the good emotions are restored, just changing ones mindset to be positive does not *really* work. At least not for me. It may "appear" that way to outsiders but the depression is more than my mindset. The depression is robbing my ability to feel good emotions.


What I'm always confused by is the interpretation others have of my posts. What I have said was that positive emotions are what bring my life good value since mindsets alone never have during my miserable moments. This means that the good values returning back into my life was like magic (something that happened all on its own) rather than me making it happen through my mindsets. Many people think it is our mindsets that give our lives value and I think this is false. But I need to back that claim up with arguments. These arguments must be presented perfectly in such a way that others take deep consideration into them and wonder if they are true. As long as I present weak arguments, then others would just deem it all as nonsense.

That is why I keep trying and trying again to create the perfect argument that, hopefully, also addresses all the objections anyone would have of my worldview. That way, my worldview would have moved onto the next level rather than remaining at the lower class or bottom of the barrel, if you will. As long as it's at the bottom of the barrel, then it would just be a worldview supported by weak arguments that won't convince anybody. But if I manage to, someday, convince people of my worldview or, at least, get them to a position where they wonder if it could be true, then my work here would be done since I would have enlightened and awakened humanity to their happiness (positive emotions) which are like the inner light to our lives. They are literally everything to our lives and should never be dismissed as trivial and unnecessary things.

Not only would I have achieved this goal of enlightening others, but such enlightenment would also serve to put others in a position where they finally cease viewing my worldview as nonsense, name calling me, dismissing my inner light as though it is something trivial, etc. People would finally understand my needs rather than giving me advice that focuses away from my inner light such as making the best of things, helping others, achieving goals, etc. to give my life a false version of good value and worth that they think is real. As for your question, I just had to wait to fully recover from my miserable moments. Moments come and go.

That is how my positive emotions came back into my life again. During that recovery process, it was like the good values in my life were slowly returning on their own without any mindset making that happen. That is why I conclude that it is our positive emotions that give our lives real good value and not our attitude and mindsets themselves during our miserable or unhappy moments. You see, no positive mindset worked at all during my miserable moments to give my life any real good values as I said before. But, all of a sudden, the moment I recovered, all the good values and joys of my life were restored. This happened to me every single time I had a miserable moment in my life. I have had such miserable moments for many years since it was an ongoing battle for me. Lastly, I have a Q&A section to post here. It talks about the inner light which is a metaphor presented in anime and how it relates to my worldview.

Post Edited (SuperMarioGamer) : 10/25/2017 9:03:21 PM (GMT-6)


theHTreturns...
Elite Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 19898
   Posted 10/25/2017 8:01 PM (GMT -7)   
it is your world view. yours alone. your perfect argument only makes perfect sense to you, and the constant projection of it in different guises signals that your objective thought is diminished and a more acute problem exists.

SuperMarioGamer
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 39
   Posted 10/25/2017 8:06 PM (GMT -7)   
theHTreturns... said...
it is your world view. yours alone. your perfect argument only makes perfect sense to you, and the constant projection of it in different guises signals that your objective thought is diminished and a more acute problem exists.


I think there is a way I can make my argument make sense to you and others. I just need to keep trying and I will get there. I have actually recently edited something in my previous post and I think this edit should clear things up for you:

"As for your question, I just had to wait to fully recover from my miserable moments. Moments come and go. That is how my positive emotions came back into my life again. During that recovery process, it was like the good values in my life were slowly returning on their own without any mindset making that happen. That is why I conclude that it is our positive emotions that give our lives real good value and not our attitude and mindsets themselves during our miserable or unhappy moments. You see, no positive mindset worked at all during my miserable moments to give my life any real good values as I said before. But, all of a sudden, the moment I recovered, all the good values and joys of my life were restored. This happened to me every single time I had a miserable moment in my life. I have had such miserable moments for many years since it was an ongoing battle for me. Lastly, I have a Q&A section to post here. It talks about the inner light which is a metaphor presented in anime and how it relates to my worldview."

theHTreturns...
Elite Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 19898
   Posted 10/25/2017 8:15 PM (GMT -7)   
this is your insightful recovery process....we have them, however you need not to quantify your process, you are an individual of this earth......keeping with the process of trying to win the argument of your process is actually keeping you in your loop. f27 has spoke of this and is on the money. i understand you yearn for a validating response, however pushing it continually forwards shows a lack of understanding of the input of this community. i have been where you are at, in a sense, and this distortion you have presents that you are right and everyone wrong and that your argument must succeed. this process is alienating.

SuperMarioGamer
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 39
   Posted 10/25/2017 8:28 PM (GMT -7)   
theHTreturns... said...
this is your insightful recovery process....we have them, however you need not to quantify your process, you are an individual of this earth......keeping with the process of trying to win the argument of your process is actually keeping you in your loop. f27 has spoke of this and is on the money. i understand you yearn for a validating response, however pushing it continually forwards shows a lack of understanding of the input of this community. i have been where you are at, in a sense, and this distortion you have presents that you are right and everyone wrong and that your argument must succeed. this process is alienating.


What are you saying here? Are you saying that there really is another way my life can have real good value and worth independent of my positive emotions and that my worldview is only alienating and self limiting? Remember, I cannot live an empty life. As long as my life is empty, then it is truly no way to live or be an artist for me. I am willing to get that help I need to give my life that alternative source of value, but I am not sure that can happen since positive emotions might truly be the only inner light in our lives. Let me know when you are ready to read the Q&A section which talks about this.

ambling
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 626
   Posted 10/25/2017 9:10 PM (GMT -7)   
You are trying to think your way out of your feelings.
HT and f27 have noticed the loop you are in. They are trying to help you.
I tried to explain the difference between thinking, and feeling. You ignored it.

Relax, think less and enjoy more. Live your life. You are right, ok?

The same way you might not enjoy hearing other people's stuff, some of us don't really want to hear your thought loop over and over.
Your world view will evolve throughout your whole life. There is no end to that.
Words describe things. Your emotions will flow... it's all ok.
Good luck

theHTreturns...
Elite Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 19898
   Posted 10/25/2017 9:11 PM (GMT -7)   
this process is not artistic in any sense bar for your own conceptual understanding....however your insights are keeping you from accessing help because you have limited faith and are brain washed -in a sense by your own conceptual process.....all emotions are needed for a positive life, even the negating ones, for they teach us. you are blinded by your own world view and by not looking at an alternative outlet and process then you are indeed pidgeon holing yourself to only 1 process which is limiting your understanding of the world and it's inner properties. the inner light shines brightest when we do different things and have new experiences. this process of change is life and by you having a head strong fixed process it shows me that you will not find this inner light because you are too scared of new processes and change. thx but no to q & a.

SuperMarioGamer
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 39
   Posted 10/25/2017 9:24 PM (GMT -7)   
ambling said...
You are trying to think your way out of your feelings.
HT and f27 have noticed the loop you are in. They are trying to help you.
I tried to explain the difference between thinking, and feeling. You ignored it.

Relax, think less and enjoy more. Live your life. You are right, ok?

The same way you might not enjoy hearing other people's stuff, some of us don't really want to hear your thought loop over and over.
Your world view will evolve throughout your whole life. There is no end to that.
Words describe things. Your emotions will flow... it's all ok.
Good luck


Thanks. I do try to keep a positive and relaxed mindset during my miserable moments even though I do feel violent sometimes since I need my positive emotions back into my life. I also do get the help I need such as talking to a therapist. But I love to share my worldview, too. People don't have to listen to it or respond to it. I just wish to share it anyway for others who are willing to stick around the whole way through and continue discussing it with me. In short, I am here just to talk even though I am doing things at the same time to help improve my life. Currently, I am almost near a state of full recovery. So, my life is mostly fine right now and I am just merely talking.

[quote]this process is not artistic in any sense bar for your own conceptual understanding....however your insights are keeping you from accessing help because you have limited faith and are brain washed -in a sense by your own conceptual process.....all emotions are needed for a positive life, even the negating ones, for they teach us. you are blinded by your own world view and by not looking at an alternative outlet and process then you are indeed pidgeon holing yourself to only 1 process which is limiting your understanding of the world and it's inner properties. the inner light shines brightest when we do different things and have new experiences. this process of change is life and by you having a head strong fixed process it shows me that you will not find this inner light because you are too scared of new processes and change. thx but no to q & a.


I hope you are right. I really hope there is a real positive quality mental state out there for me to obtain besides my positive emotions. Remember, this is a mental state that has to replace all the good value, joys, and beauty I have had in my life through my positive emotions. Is such a thing really possible? If it's not possible, then such a mental state would not possess any real positive quality to it then and it would have to only be my positive emotions that possess the real positive quality needed to give my life real good values.

You also said that negative emotions can give our lives good value. This means that you are saying negative emotions can possess a positive quality to them. This makes no sense to me. It would be no different than saying that a negative charge can be a positive charge or that a positive charge can be a negative one. Of course, positive and negative charges are just positive and negative charges while a mental state that possesses a positive or negative quality would be like a good or bad charge since it is a real quality of good and bad. Or are you saying that it is our mindsets themselves during our negative emotions that can possess the positive quality to them?

I will now present my 2nd brief statement to also summarize my worldview which I think is quite interesting. Positive and negative charges are actual qualities. When you get a charge, you could either get a charge of a positive quality or of a negative quality. The same idea applies to our positive and negative emotions. Except, consider our positive and negative emotions to be a different type of positive and negative charge. They would be good and bad charges which means good and bad are actual qualities like positive and negative charges. Except, emotions are not charges. They are just qualities of good and bad. I just simply give this analogy of charges to get my point across. This means that, if you want real good value in your life, then a mindset alone would not work.

You would need your positive emotions just as how you would need to get zapped by a positive charge because, if you wanted a real positive charge in your life, then a mindset alone would not work. The same idea applies to having bad value in our lives through our negative emotions. When we feel a positive emotion, then that is like a surge or a charge from the heavens. It is like pure heavenly light energy of goodness flowing through our conscious being. Our negative emotions would be like negative, dark energy of pure badness flowing through our conscious being. It is through our positive emotions that we become like transcended angels or gods while it is through our negative emotions that we become like the most horrible and disgusting goblins of the lower realms, metaphorically speaking. This means that our positive emotions are intrinsically good and our negative emotions are intrinsically bad.

Post Edited (SuperMarioGamer) : 10/26/2017 12:07:38 AM (GMT-6)


theHTreturns...
Elite Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 19898
   Posted 10/25/2017 11:28 PM (GMT -7)   
i see you are playing the game my friend......because you do get it and are afraid to take any leaps forward. whereas i enjoyed the banter you clearly are lost inside the loop of your own thoughts and it is taking over your life, to such an extent that you are yearning for validation on this concept. i do feel for ya, and i sense a deep sadness and a conflicting emotive response.

ambling
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 626
   Posted 10/26/2017 12:25 AM (GMT -7)   
Good and bad are moral judgements. You might prefer to use well and unwell? Also, positive and negative have scientific meanings which are different to, once again, moral judgements. You might prefer useful and unhelpful?

And again, separating mental state from emotional state is problematic. They exist together, intertwined.

It's fine to talk. Talking helps. Listening helps too.

SuperMarioGamer
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 39
   Posted 10/26/2017 8:02 AM (GMT -7)   
ambling said...
Good and bad are moral judgements. You might prefer to use well and unwell? Also, positive and negative have scientific meanings which are different to, once again, moral judgements. You might prefer useful and unhelpful?

And again, separating mental state from emotional state is problematic. They exist together, intertwined.

It's fine to talk. Talking helps. Listening helps too.


But by saying that emotions are merely a matter of feeling well and unwell and that it is instead other things in life which are good and bad, then that places more importance upon other things. I think our emotions are truly the only things that give good and bad value to our lives. Positive and negative can be scientific such as a positive and negative charge.

But there is another type of positive and negative which refers to good and bad. For example, a positive outlook would refer to an outlook where you look at things as being good and beautiful in your life while a negative outlook would be an outlook where you look at things as being horrible, bad, and disgusting.

But, like I said, I think it can only be our emotional states which are the real positive and negative mental states and not our outlooks/mindsets themselves since, as I said before, our mindsets themselves are not any real positive and negative quality mental state. Lastly, the term mental state can refer to any type of mental state whether it be hearing something, seeing something, smelling something, thinking of something, having a hallucination, etc. This is because the term mental refers to the mind and not just emotions.

Post Edited (SuperMarioGamer) : 10/26/2017 11:50:50 AM (GMT-6)


BnotAfraid
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Apr 2012
Total Posts : 7144
   Posted 10/26/2017 12:13 PM (GMT -7)   
SMG

If you do not have a doctor, I strongly suggest you find one.. you don't see it, however you are obsessive in this thought process or messing with us because you are bored.

I ask you not to post these long, excessive litanies any more.

You do not receive the answer you want, people become frustrated posting on the thread.

Next time you post on this subject at this length, I will request admin to block you member ID. It can be considered "harassment" or "inciting" under the forum guidelines/rules

Thank you
Trina
Moderator - Depression

"...when the gift of sight is cause enough for jubilation."
Billy Collins from the poem. HIGH

DX: reverse Trigeminal Neuralgia;Cluster headaches; Atypical face pain;Hemicrania Continua; raynauds;complex PTSD; recurring MDD,disassociative disorder;
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