From fatty liver to Jaundice

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lastdaytoday
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts : 20
   Posted 7/30/2012 12:43 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi all,

I'm so happy to find this site. I'm a new member and I have spent the last few days learning a lot from reviewing the posts on hepatitis.

I'm a 40yr old male, married with 4 kids. I have been a drinker for much of my life. I was more of a weekend drinker, then turned an after work drinker over the last few years.

I have really screwed up over the last year. about a year ago, I went in for a complete physical. It was just time, no particular reason. As part of that they ran a liver function test. The results were not to good. AST was in the 170's and ALT was around 200. I happen to be on antibiocs at the time so the Dr ran them again and they dropped in a couple of week to AST 150 and ALT 171. Still very high but going in the right direction. He sent me in for an ultrasound and they diagnosed fatty liver.

Here is were I messed up. The Dr. said to make another apt in a month and I didn't. He also told me to stop drinking. I only did that for about a month. I have continued to have my beers after work until about 3 weeks ago, I went on a fishing trip with some friends for almost a week. We basically woke up to bloody mary's and partied all day everyday while we were there. When I returned about 2 weeks ago, I woke up in the morning and my eyes had some yellow in them. I freaked out because I know that it could be jaundice. I did some reading over the last week about it and so I checked my tougue it had some yellow and the roof of my mouth. My urine was an unusual dark yellow as well.

I will be scheduling a Dr apt this week. I stopped drinking and it's been about 10 days. I have been eating healthy, working out, drinking lots of water and taking milk thistle. I have not seen any improvement as of yet.

So I have a couple of questions I hope I can get some opinions on.

1. Is there anything more that I should be doing until I get in to the Dr?
2. The jaundice doesn't seem to bad, skin is not showing and you can barely tell in my eyes unless you look real close. Any thoughts how long it will take for the yellow to go away? Am I looking at one month? a year?
4. Should I go to the emergency room for this? Don't seem to have any side affects at this point
5. Since I got Jaudice is that a sign that I probably have scarring?

Thank you all, I know I need to get in and get my labs done again. I'm just praying I didn't screw up enough to have scarring and I can make a full recovery. Thanks in advance! Love the site!

Oh and btw, my screen name is meant to be positive. Means treat every day as if it were your last.

hep93
Elite Member


Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 12014
   Posted 7/30/2012 1:10 PM (GMT -7)   
Hello, Lastdaytoday, and welcome to the forum. We are glad you found us. Congratulations on stopping drinking. That is the best single thing you can do for your liver. And understand this is a long-term commitment, not just for a week or month. If you have difficulty with staying stopped, please seek out an AA meeting near your home.

To know where you stand as far as cirrhosis, the best thing would be a liver biopsy. Some places now use an alternative diagnostic tool, such as Fibroscan.

Hopefully, you have escaped major damage. However, if you have been jaundiced, chances are that you do have cirrhosis. The staging for this must be done through biopsy. You did not become cirrhotic due to the last round of drinking, but rather an accumulation of alcohol abuse over the years.

Diet is important in stopping or slowing the progression of cirrhosis. Abstain from eating red meat and boost your intake of fruits and veggies. Keep sodium intake to a minimum. Drink a lot of pure water.

You might want to use the Search feature above to input "fatty liver" and that will pull up previous posts about fatty liver.

I also suggest that you get a referral to a hepatologist (liver specialist.) Primary Care docs, and even GI docs, are not always familiar with liver disease and how to treat it.

Hugs,
Connie
hep93
Forum moderator - Hepatitis


"But that was yesterday, and I was a different person then."

Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

Liver transplant recipient, Oct. 27, 2011, at Mayo Hospital, Jacksonville, FL

Post Edited (hep93) : 7/30/2012 2:13:27 PM (GMT-6)


MamaLama
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 4806
   Posted 7/30/2012 1:11 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi LDT and welcome to the forum.

We are not a medical team, rather a group of patients and caregivers of folks with liver diseases of all kinds.

There are some interesting posts at the top of this forum with information and url's you might like to read.

I'll also recommend you read back through the posts because there are so many that apply to your situation.

There is also a SEARCH button at the top where you can put in a key word on a particular topic or medication and find out specifics on a single theme.

Your situation should be more clear once you have been to the doctor. The most important thing for you to understand is that drinking alcohol can be a death sentence for you.

Yes, you did make a mistake in not following through with your sobriety and doctors appointments some time ago. Your new diagnosis will likely be alcoholic cirrhosis. I can't image that you have jaundice and dark urine that you don't have scaring in the liver.

I am hoping that you are going to see a hepatologist at a major medical center. The local GIs are nice enough and they often have large liver disease practices, but the BIG guns at at major medical centers. Cut and past this into your browser:


http://liversociety.org/html/liver_transplant_hosptials.html

What you can do now? You are doing part of it -- committment to sobriety and healthy diet and exercise. But you need to know that once a liver is fully decompensated, Stage 4, there is no cure bar transplantation.

Your hepatologiest needs to do a liver biopsy to see the condition of your liver. Don't wait on this, it is important to know.

AND to be eligible for a transplant, if needed in the future, a patient must be 6 months sober with documentation of a treatment program, counseling or AA type meetings signed by the speaker. My Mike has Hep C, is an alcoholic and had liver cancer. He thought he could get sober on his own, and he likely could have, but the center would only take the documentation...to be sure. AND he had to meet several times witha psychiatrist who wrote a letter stating he believed Mike was committed to life long sobriety. He waited to go to AA and thus had to stay alive longer waiting to get a liver!

You ask about the jaundice. That is really a function of both your sobriety AND the current condition of your liver. And sometimes there can be obstructions in the bile ducts that cause jaundice also (but you would likely have pain that would send you to an ER if that were the case). You may have periods where the jaundice subsides, but my friend, this condition of yours isn't going to go away.

Some who drink alcoholically get sober and have long periods where they feel well...those folks who are Stage 1 or maybe Stage 2. But when it gets bad, it will get bad. you currently are not reporting edema in your legs, ascites in your belly, easy bleeding or bruising ( if there is bleeding from the mouth or rectum, get to an ER FAST), shortness of breath, changes in mental status (Hepatic Encephalopathy is caused when the liver cannot clear wastes from your body and return them to your blood stream -- patients report being crazy, forgetful, angry, confused, sleepiness, etc), GI symptoms (nausea, vomiting, diarrhea), high blood pressure, diabetes, etc. So far so good for you. This can get very serious.

I urge you to take this situation seriously. Another binge could bring you to death's door. Hopefully some of our sobered up, pre transplant folks will chime in...this could be your last chance to nip this thing...not in the bud...that ship has sailed.

Welcome aboard,
Mama Lama

Post Edited By Moderator (hep93) : 7/30/2012 2:20:00 PM (GMT-6)


Mariel52
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2012
Total Posts : 239
   Posted 7/30/2012 1:16 PM (GMT -7)   
Dear LDT,
 
Mama Lama and Connie are absolutely right about everything they said. There is not much I can add, other than consider your wife and children and what you will be putting them through if you make another mistake.
 
If you can't do it alone, get help. But don't kid yourself that you can drink. You can't, if you want to stay healthy for those babies.
 
Best wishes,
 
Marie

lastdaytoday
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts : 20
   Posted 7/30/2012 3:02 PM (GMT -7)   
I really appreciate the honesty. I know I screwed up last time. I'm not doing it again. Actually I like being sober. I don't have any real issues that drove me to drink that much except it runs in the family. I'm done drinking!

Thank god, no swelling in the legs or ascites in my belly. No bruising that I can see at this point. I do feel a little fatigued. I have had a horrible time trying to sleep but I think that has to do with stopping the drinking. I guess I was used to passing out.

I have a phone apt with my dr tmrw and an onsite visit for Thursday. I will ask for a referal to a Hepatologist tmrw. I hope he just refers me.

I assumed I would have some scarring as well. I'm so mad at myself but I guess what's done is done and just to the right things going forward.

Time to live a more healthy life for my kids... thanks again for the input thus far and I will send an update. It was great how quickly you all responded!

hep93
Elite Member


Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 12014
   Posted 7/30/2012 3:08 PM (GMT -7)   
Please don't "should" on yourself. You can't change the past, but you can make sure going forward that you take care of yourself.

All of us here really care.

Hugs,
Connie
hep93
Forum moderator - Hepatitis


"But that was yesterday, and I was a different person then."

Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

Liver transplant recipient, Oct. 27, 2011, at Mayo Hospital, Jacksonville, FL

lastdaytoday
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts : 20
   Posted 7/30/2012 3:53 PM (GMT -7)   
Another question please..

I've been reading much on the subject, looks like Jaundice is a sign of stage 4. I had no idea I had already gone through 1-3. Anyway, my question is that although I have only seen the symptom of jaundice at this point and I have stopped drinking. Is there a chance that I could still develop the other symptoms? My guess is yes but it would be nice to know if I caught it in time before it progressed further as far as the additional symptoms.

lastdaytoday
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts : 20
   Posted 7/30/2012 4:05 PM (GMT -7)   
Looks like I misread. just because I have jaundice does not necessarily mean I'm stage 4. So much information and I can't seem to get enough of it

hep93
Elite Member


Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 12014
   Posted 7/30/2012 9:09 PM (GMT -7)   
"Is there a chance that I could still develop the other symptoms?"

If you go back to drinking you will. And you could develop other symptoms down the road from damage that has already been done to your liver.

Hugs,
Connie
hep93
Forum moderator - Hepatitis


"But that was yesterday, and I was a different person then."

Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

Liver transplant recipient, Oct. 27, 2011, at Mayo Hospital, Jacksonville, FL

Post Edited (hep93) : 7/31/2012 7:08:37 AM (GMT-6)


arneeb
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 2358
   Posted 7/30/2012 10:33 PM (GMT -7)   
take a deep breath... you didn't come here over night... not gonna get help over night too....
you're in the right place... take it one step at a time... one problem at a time.. come here often and ask questions... glad you are sober... take care...
Sandia
There is no pit so deep that He is not deeper still... Corrie Ten Boom

MrErythema
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 259
   Posted 7/31/2012 3:47 AM (GMT -7)   
Connie does the OP have Hepc?

hep93
Elite Member


Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 12014
   Posted 7/31/2012 6:09 AM (GMT -7)   
Mr. E, thank you for pointing this error out to me. I believe I had him mixed up with someone else. I have corrected my post.

Hugs,
Connie
hep93
Forum moderator - Hepatitis


"But that was yesterday, and I was a different person then."

Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

Liver transplant recipient, Oct. 27, 2011, at Mayo Hospital, Jacksonville, FL

A.Ziffle
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2011
Total Posts : 2072
   Posted 7/31/2012 6:22 AM (GMT -7)   
" So this is a cautionary tale. "

I don't read minds E but I think Connie was referring to her own situation and how it can progress if UNTREATED . This fellow seems as if he is trying to figure out what he's got ( With help of a DOCTOR ) , Something another person who post here regularly should give a try .



A. Ziffle smilewinkgrin
I learned long ago , never wrestle with a pig . You get dirty , and besides , the pig likes it .

G.B Shaw

Post Edited (A.Ziffle) : 7/31/2012 7:25:07 AM (GMT-6)


lastdaytoday
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts : 20
   Posted 7/31/2012 10:32 AM (GMT -7)   
Thanks for the posts. At this point, yes I'm trying to not only get an idea of what I have but learn as much as I can so that I can ask the right questions when I visit the Dr. later this week. I have learned a lot already and also founds some pretty good posts on the digestive system on youtube. Also my intent was to make sure I'm doing all of the right things as far as diet, excersize ect.. while I'm waiting for my apt with the Dr.

I'm sure they will send me for a biopsy pretty quick and then I will know the extent of the damage. My jaundice is not as bad as I have heard but it's definitely there. I'm hoping that means my biliruban score is not to terribly bad. I have been getting cramping in my hands and feet which are terrible when trying to sleep. Any advice on dealing with cramps?

Post Edited By Moderator (hep93) : 7/31/2012 2:18:36 PM (GMT-6)


MamaLama
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 4806
   Posted 7/31/2012 11:25 AM (GMT -7)   
Many have chronic cramps in hands and legs.  My Mike had them so bad he would fall down trying to get out of bed to walk them off!  There isn't much he found that helped. But we did notice he was best when his electrolytes were best.  And he had a hard time keeping in balance. They'd put him in the hospital for this or that, fill him with IV fluids and albumen or potassium or whatever was goofed up and he'd be good for a while.
 
Some drink tonic water for the quinine, others likely try the bar of soap in the sheets.
 
Unfortunately he is complaining of some cramping again...only a year out from transplant.
 
I will be interested to see if any others have some good remedies that work.
 
Good luck,
 
Mama Lama
MamaLama
Forum moderator - Hepatitis


Partner received liver transplant May 1, 2011, Jackson Memorial, Miami, FL

lastdaytoday
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts : 20
   Posted 7/31/2012 11:40 AM (GMT -7)   
That is very true. When I first starting to get the cramps in my foot, it was constant. Every time I would lay down, bang it would hit. I got absolutely no sleep. Then I really focused on my electrolytes and potasium and I got much better. Still get them but nothing like they were. Thanks for the advice.

MamaLama
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 4806
   Posted 7/31/2012 11:47 AM (GMT -7)   
LDT, are you taking diuretics? Some of them flush too much potassium so they can switch you to one that is potassium sparing -- Mike took them both and that helped for a while. Carol
MamaLama
Forum moderator - Hepatitis


Partner received liver transplant May 1, 2011, Jackson Memorial, Miami, FL

**David**
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 3708
   Posted 7/31/2012 12:13 PM (GMT -7)   
When my liver was failing, I had continual cramping. My hepatologist prescribed quinalone and it really helped. It's expensive and you can use tonic water instead, though it isn't as good.
nullum beneficium impunitum...

lastdaytoday
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts : 20
   Posted 7/31/2012 12:19 PM (GMT -7)   
No I'm not on diuretics. I find that it helps to stay hydrated of course but also when I make sure my feet are lower then my body when I sleep that helps! It might be a circulation thing.

hep93
Elite Member


Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 12014
   Posted 7/31/2012 1:17 PM (GMT -7)   
"getting crapping in my hands and feet"

I'm taking the liberty to correct that, as I'm sure you meant cramping. smilewinkgrin

Hugs,
Connie
hep93
Forum moderator - Hepatitis


"But that was yesterday, and I was a different person then."

Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

Liver transplant recipient, Oct. 27, 2011, at Mayo Hospital, Jacksonville, FL

lastdaytoday
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts : 20
   Posted 7/31/2012 2:46 PM (GMT -7)   
LOL! Thank you!

**David**
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 3708
   Posted 7/31/2012 3:17 PM (GMT -7)   
If this was concerning the use of lactulose - crapping would be appropriate.

A.Ziffle
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2011
Total Posts : 2072
   Posted 7/31/2012 3:34 PM (GMT -7)   
Yet another reason to wear a full body condom when going to a public restroom or using a ATM .



Ziff
I learned long ago , never wrestle with a pig . You get dirty , and besides , the pig likes it .

G.B Shaw

Junyiu
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts : 1
   Posted 8/2/2012 12:44 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi there Lastdaytoday, I have hepatitis C and interferon treatment few years back. I am one of those unlucky one who do not have any responds to the treatment.
I heart that milk thistle can help with liver disease. And you mention that you have tried it. What do you think of it? Does it have any effects at all?
I dont know if I should try using milk thistle, but my DR does not recommend it.

A.Ziffle
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2011
Total Posts : 2072
   Posted 8/2/2012 5:42 AM (GMT -7)   
Junyiu , Alot of people including myself use or used milk thistle . I eventually quit because it didn't seem to have any affect and it typically is expensive if you get it in it's purest form . A lot of vitamin and miracle cure manufactures not only are bogus but some short change you on the ingredients .

My Doc begrudgingly allowed me to use it at the time but with a stern warning about possible ill side effects , Not enough proven evidence it works and last but not least " Playing doctor with myself " . I'd say just stick with real vitamins from a good source and do what your doctor ask .



A. Ziffle
I learned long ago , never wrestle with a pig . You get dirty , and besides , the pig likes it .

G.B Shaw
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