Can we just fight??

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+Lyme
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Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 1304
   Posted 5/9/2009 8:11 AM (GMT -7)   
Razzle posted a really good response to my questions in the Band 39 thread. And it leads me to ask these questions, which I have not found anywhere during my 'research'.  They kind of have to do w/ reactions of the species specific bands like 39.
 
I've always been a believer in our immune systems. Never been a hypochondriac.  And that's how I brought up my kids. Generally, unless the illness seemed extremely serious, when they'd get sick, I'd give it 3 days before taking them to the Dr. I told them that the miracle of our bodies is that when we get sick, our body will work to cure it.  I figured, if it continued past 3 days, the body might need some help, for ex: antibiotics for strep and ear infections.
 
Anyway, does anyone know, or is there any research on Lyme and/or the co-infections on peoples' bodies being able to fight off these diseases?  Does anyone know anyone who became ill with Lyme and eventually got well without treatment?
 
If I am currently infected w/ (as opposed to just exposed to)  Bb, and if I have a lot of the symptoms of Lyme and possibly co-infections, would that mean I have the chronic illness?  Or is there any way that my body will continue to struggle to fight off this infection and possibly resolve/ win?
 
This edit may be too late: And IF my immune system was compromised by the Bb, wouldn't I be catching more colds, flu, etc?
 
I realize that I need to continue working towards a solid diagnosis, and it's not as if I would deny treatment. I'm just wondering if it's within the realm of possibility that my body can kick this. Note, that if I do have the infection, I've had it for 2 years. 
 
Which brings up another question: What are the appx time frames for early, late, and chronic?

Post Edited (LymeUnknown) : 5/9/2009 9:32:36 AM (GMT-6)


hopingToFindCure
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Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 759
   Posted 5/9/2009 8:57 AM (GMT -7)   
I haven't had the cold or flu since contracting this. So, I see your point. If my immune system is all that bad, why am I not dying with all that's come through my office etc.

I have read that Lyme is virulent strain of bacteria and we seem to need help keeping it in check. I'm off all meds though so as to experiment with my own body somehow ridding of it. Since I took abx previously, I may have ruined my own chances however. I've heard it comes "roaring back" -- those stories are posted far and wide.

I've seen many doctors, including two llmds.

One LLMD promised nothing but palliative care in the form of prescrived buckets of the ABX.

The other said I wasn't badly impacted by this to warrant massive doses of ABX, but gave me 400 mgs doxy.

Who was the better of the two? I think the latter honestly.

Pray for a miracle! Better odds I think!

Martha's Vineyard
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 1119
   Posted 5/9/2009 9:53 AM (GMT -7)   
Good questions.
Here are some good books to help you answer them and many more.
Cure Unkown
Living with Lyme
2004 in Martha's Vineyard me and my two daughters then 11 mos and 6 all got Lyme Disease. This was only known to us because we found the tiny ticks on us and we got very ill. My dog also got lyme and he went lame.
We have fought it for 4 years to no avail.
We all got it again this summer is Texas.
I am now in treatment in Scottsdale Arizona at Envita.

"The eyes cannot see for for what the mind does not know."


Martha's Vineyard
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Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 1119
   Posted 5/9/2009 9:57 AM (GMT -7)   
We have all been fighting for our lives.
What else can we do?
We are trying to raise the roof off of all of the lies around Lyme and its co -infections.
Lyme and the others were created in a lab to be a silent bomb on a civilizaiton.
Read lab 257
Babesa was made to wipe out herds of cattle therefore killing off the a meat source in a nation.
Fight?
Yes it is a fight already. And one that our stupid goverment is responsible for in the first place.
Read up on the labs in San Antonio Texas..they got a huge grant.
They are studing agent used in WAR...Lyme is one of them.
2004 in Martha's Vineyard me and my two daughters then 11 mos and 6 all got Lyme Disease. This was only known to us because we found the tiny ticks on us and we got very ill. My dog also got lyme and he went lame.
We have fought it for 4 years to no avail.
We all got it again this summer is Texas.
I am now in treatment in Scottsdale Arizona at Envita.

"The eyes cannot see for for what the mind does not know."


+Lyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 1304
   Posted 5/9/2009 1:23 PM (GMT -7)   

OH MY GOD, Martha'sVineyard. You have just stated as fact a question I have been pondering since I started looking at Lyme more closely! I was wondering if it could have been produced for germ warfare, but was afraid to ask a 'conspiracy' question!

And Lymekiller and others. Please do not misunderstand -- there is NO way I was making light of this disease w/ my questions above. I've been reading all I can and asking you all a lot of questions --- struggling to figure this all out -- mainly in trying to figure out my own little band 39.

If there was a chance one of my kids had strep -- I knew they had to take antibiotics. Same w/ ear infections.  Lots of stuff just gets worse without treatment.

In the past, I have understood the feelings in my body when I was 'trying to fight something off'.  I would feel as if I was getting sick, but not quite -- just an 'off' kind of feeling -- not sick/ and not well. I'd call it 'trying to get sick'. But then I'd megadose the vites and the sleep and be fine.

I have become absolutely flabbergasted about this new illness -- I NEVER knew how serious it could be! (otherwise, I'd have gone to a Dr after my last known tick bite) Had no idea how difficult to diagnose and no idea how difficult to treat!

I'm just trying to figure out my one little reactive band. It's not enough for most Drs to diagnose Lyme. But it's enough for Dr. Jones and a few others. And it's IgG, not IgM. Could that mean that I HAD Lyme at one time and no longer do? Could that mean I feel like crap because I'm fighting it? (well..... I guess that's why we feel like crap when we're sick!) 

I'm also wondering because of a tick bite 37 yrs ago. I posted this, but it I'm sure it was too long for many to read. The tick was very engorged. It was immediately followed by swollen nodes, recurrent high (104) fevers,  constant low grade fever in between, constant swollen, puss filled tonsils. Then followed by serious urinary tract infection, miscarraige and appendicitis.  Then followed by severe neck and back pain, fatigue, depression and hypoglycemia.

But I could not have been sick ever since -- I've had too many years of health, if you discount the neck and back pain, hypoglycemia and depression, ha ha.  There was no brain fog or cognitive problems.

Now, I am convinced I had a TBI that was never diagnosed. But I don't think it could have been Lyme, or if it WAS Lyme, my body eventually fought it off and/or it could have eventually been kicked by the antibiotics I took on and off during my illnesses?

I'm sorry for ALL of you! I'm not near as sick as most of you and I feel very deeply for you. Because I do experience an inkling of your feelings of an illness that is out of your control, possibly out of the Dr's control. Some of you are disabled from it and some of you may even die from it, and many of you wish you would die.

Mostly, now I'm understanding what brings you here. You can be validated here. You aren't a vague mystery here. You can talk about your symptoms and your feelings here w/o someone calling you negative or a whiner.  All along, you had felt that something was wrong, but you were not able to figure out what it was -- Was it real or in your head? Was it just depression talking? Were you going insane? Were you imagining it until your imagination made it happen? Why couldn't you do, accomplish or produce what others were capable of? Why were you constantly making excuses about not wanting to do stuff and why didn't you ever feel like doing things that others wanted to do? You probably never wanted to be such a cranky, irritable, negative person, but how could you keep from it, lousy as you feel???

And why couldn't everyone in your life understand that there IS something very real wrong w/ you, that you cannot help it, and that you are in constant pain, in fear for your life, and just cannot push yourself to get the stuff you need done?

You've probably felt that others in your life think you just want attention or for them to feel sorry for you. But when you think about it hard enough -- OF COURSE NOT!  WHY would someone want pity instead of closeness and admiration? Why would you want attention about your negative stuff as opposed to your talents or how great you look, how smart you are? Yet, others DO believe you are just feeling sorry for yourself.

Everything in me wants to shout out loud: 'I am sick! I have a real disease! A NASTY disease caused by NASTY bacteria carried by NASTY, CREEPY TICKS! THEY put this CRAP in my body! It hurts! I am so tired I can't stand it. My house is a pig sty, NOT because I am a pig, but because I hurt, and I'm too tired and depressed and overwhelmed. The NASTY bacteria in me are making me feel insane! I don't WANT to be negative and irritable --  the bacteria is making me this way!' 

But I'm realizing, that I'm going to have to shut up about it so everyone doesn't get sick(er) of me. My depression's already been enough for them.

Back on track: I will not be able to afford thousands of dollars worth of treatments. I can possibly pay for a Dr's diagnosis and will then have to expect and demand the abx from my insurance.  

I guess I wanted to know if it was in the realm of possibility that I could have had Lyme in the past and fought it off, causing a reactive 39 today. But if that's possible, what's wrong now, I don't know. I wanted to know if Lyme meant certain lifelong misery or if some peoples' bodies are able to fight it off, just as most of our bodies fight off hundreds of other bacteria, even cancers, every minute of every day.

Thanks for all the help on here!

 

 



rcenters
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2007
Total Posts : 259
   Posted 5/9/2009 1:56 PM (GMT -7)   
lymekiller said...
i havent had a cold or the flu since contracting this either!its because our immune system wont turn off ya know..somethings in our body and our immune system is attacking at all times and lyme is a very bad bacteria to have so the common cold and flu seem like nothing to our bodies thats why we dont get them
Actually, I'm somewhat curious about something related to this.  It is my presumption that I've had lyme about 5 years....and in that time I do not get the flu any more often than I ever did before.  BUT - curiously, when I do get the flu and after I get over it....I seem to feel better than ever before(only lasts a couple of days of course).   And it makes me wonder if the flu(or perhaps viral infections in general) can be as devastating to the lyme as they are to your own body.  Hasn't it been theorized(you know, in tech journals saying what might be invented 20 years from now) that viruses could be genetically engineered to hunt other pathogens?

Razzle
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4399
   Posted 5/10/2009 2:12 AM (GMT -7)   
LymeUnknown said...
 
 
Anyway, does anyone know, or is there any research on Lyme and/or the co-infections on peoples' bodies being able to fight off these diseases?  Does anyone know anyone who became ill with Lyme and eventually got well without treatment?
 
If I am currently infected w/ (as opposed to just exposed to)  Bb, and if I have a lot of the symptoms of Lyme and possibly co-infections, would that mean I have the chronic illness?  Or is there any way that my body will continue to struggle to fight off this infection and possibly resolve/ win?
 
This edit may be too late: And IF my immune system was compromised by the Bb, wouldn't I be catching more colds, flu, etc?
 
Which brings up another question: What are the appx time frames for early, late, and chronic?
Yes, it is possible to get bitten by an infected tick, get Lyme, and for the body's immune system to be strong enough to overcome the infection.  This is the "ideal" circumstance.  Stephen Harod Buhner, in his book, "Healing Lyme," says that a strong immune system is our best defence against Lyme, and he recommends taking certain herbs to build up the body's immune system during the times of the year when one is most likely to come into contact with ticks/other vectors that may carry Lyme.
 
If a person has already had a Lyme infection ongoing for more than a few months, it is unlikely that their immune system would be able to overcome the infection without some kind of support - such as antibiotics, herbs, nutrition, homeopathy, etc.  That doesn't mean the body stops fighting the bug, just that the bug has developed ways of hiding from the immune system's efforts.
 
No, it is not necessarily true that people with chronic Lyme catch more colds/flu than the general population.  The immune system is amazingly adaptable.  And Lyme may even teach the immune system to ignore it even as the immune system goes on the offensive against other infections.  Also, there are two "arms" of the immune system - humoral immunity and cellular immunity.  I'm not sure if Lyme only diables one of these systems initially and it is only later in the disease that both are suppressed or not...I'm fairly certain I've read in one or more of the Lyme books I've got that Lyme throws the balance between the two "arms" out of whack, making one more dominant than the other.  But I don't remember the specifics of what I've read well enough to give more detail.
 
From "Primary Care Brochure" the stages of Lyme are as follows:
 
1. Early (Acute) Lyme - 3rd to 30th day after exposure
2. Early Disseminated Lyme may begin as early as a few weeks after exposure and may mark the begining of the chronic phase but with less severe symptoms [extrapolated from the other two stages listed in the brochure]
3. Late (Chronic or Disseminated) Lyme - may occur weeks, months, or even years after exposure
 
I hope this is helpful - take care,
-Razzle
Chronic Lyme Disease, Gluten & Sulfite Sensitivity, Many Food/Inhalant/Medication/Chemical Allergies & Intolerances, Asthma, Gut issues (dysmotility, non-specific inflammation), UCTD ("Secondary Lupus-Like Syndrome"), Osteoporosis, Pancytopenia, chronic malabsorption/malnutrition, etc.; G-Tube; Currently TPN-dependent.
Meds:  Zofran, Pulmicort, Heparin (to flush PICC line), Claritin, Colloidal Silver (used topically), IV Milk Thistle, probiotics.


+Lyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 1304
   Posted 5/10/2009 7:55 AM (GMT -7)   
Thank you Razzle!

Seibertneurolyme
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 19
   Posted 5/10/2009 1:59 PM (GMT -7)   
Sorry guys, But Babesia has been around since Biblical times. I think it was called Redwater Fever or something like that. Don't have the Bible reference in front of me, but it is not a new disease.

Lyme, now that might be a different story.

Bea Seibert

Razzle
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Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4399
   Posted 5/10/2009 4:10 PM (GMT -7)   
Lyme is not new either - if I remember right, there are reports of cases of Lyme going back to the late 1800's. However what may be relatively new are the strains of Lyme that people are having trouble fighting off (or even getting diagnosed with in the first place).
-Razzle
Chronic Lyme Disease, Gluten & Sulfite Sensitivity, Many Food/Inhalant/Medication/Chemical Allergies & Intolerances, Asthma, Gut issues (dysmotility, non-specific inflammation), UCTD ("Secondary Lupus-Like Syndrome"), Osteoporosis, Pancytopenia, chronic malabsorption/malnutrition, etc.; G-Tube; Currently TPN-dependent.
Meds:  Zofran, Pulmicort, Heparin (to flush PICC line), Claritin, Colloidal Silver (used topically), IV Milk Thistle, probiotics.


pj1954
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 57
   Posted 5/12/2009 9:01 AM (GMT -7)   
read the book plum island by les roberts leads you to belive some of this could be biological warfare.

and if you dont treat lyme you will only get worse I suspect I have had this since 1992 and did not get diagnosed till dec 2007 .

+Lyme
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Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 1304
   Posted 5/12/2009 12:19 PM (GMT -7)   
Still, even if it's an old bacteria, doesn't mean it could not have been tampered with and worked on in labs for the purpose of bio warfare. As someone said, maybe that is why our lyme today is so resistent to our antibodies and abx. Consider anthrax.

Ticks are so plentiful and so many symptoms so subtle, that this might be the perfect storm for wreaking havoc w/o appearing to be purposeful. So now, it's just gonna get worse.

+Lyme
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Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 1304
   Posted 5/13/2009 5:02 PM (GMT -7)   
'cultivated' -- that's the word I was searching for and could not find when I posted.... I must be a Lymie.
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