Anabolic Steroids to fight lyme's? Get healthy with tons of energy

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forestcall
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 25
   Posted 6/3/2009 6:49 PM (GMT -7)   
hello all :-)

I would love to begin a discussion on this topic with anyone that has interest, information or anything related.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxandrolone

Oxandrolone (Anavar) is an Anabolic Steroid. From my understanding it has very little side effects. The liver toxicity is extremely low. It was originally designed for Cancer and terminally ill patients. This particular steroid is perhaps the most mildest of all the anabolic variety's.

In my situation lyme disease has caused me to gain weight and lose muscle. Further I have zero energy and don't even have the physical stamina for making a baby with my wife.

I took a 6 week cycle of 80mg of Anavar daily. The result was nothing short of a miracle! I lose 24 pounds and I was bouncing around with heaps of energy! For the first time in 7 years I felt good! i notice that my stiff joints was at a minimum which was the most widely noticed benefit. Only problem is I obtained this medicine from Thailand and i cant easily get more. So I will ask my doctor here in the USA.

I refuse to take pain killers, arthritis meds, etc. I do not like the way I feel so polluted and toxic when I take anything. Im very into vegan and raw foods.

My question is what experience do other Lyme patients have with Anabolic Steroids or Hormone treatments or a combination?

I know many people are ignorant on the true benefits and actual side affects( dont mean that to sound harsh I just cant think of another word that describes 'no knowledge'). Its hard to get quality information about steroids for people who truly are sick. I have read in several sources that other stronger Anabolic Steroid treatments have nearly destroyed the HIV virus. The body's immune system gets so strong that it kills the bad things. From my basic understanding that when the body is repairing muscle cells the bodies ability to fight foreign guests such as virus and bacteria, etc. is greatly enhanced.



Thanks!!

Razzle
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4399
   Posted 6/3/2009 7:41 PM (GMT -7)   
I agree with Gracie's Mom. Steroids (of any kind) can induce a feeling of euphoria (known side-effect) and can give you energy initially, but long term are very destructive to the body. The ONLY time someone should take steroids if they have Lyme is if they are 1a) taking a biologic dose to correct a deficiency in adrenal hormones OR 1b) using steroids to help treat autoimmune and/or other inflammatory symptoms AND 2) are taking something to keep the Lyme from going bonkers from having immune suppression from the steroids. In other words, there are only 2 reasons to give steroids to someone with Lyme - hormone deficiency (from adrenal burnout) and inflammatory symptoms that can't be managed another way. To use hormones as the primary treatment protocol for someone with Lyme Disease would be like putting gasoline on a fire...
In addition, steroids interfere with various metabolic processes and block certain nutrients from being absorbed, thus tearing down the body instead of doing what those with Lyme need - building up and strengthening the body.

Just my very humble opinion, augmented by some personal experience with steroids given for misdiagnoses prior to finding out I had Lyme...


-Razzle
Chronic Lyme Disease, Gluten & Sulfite Sensitivity, Many Food/Inhalant/Medication/Chemical Allergies & Intolerances, Asthma, Gut issues (dysmotility, non-specific inflammation), UCTD ("Secondary Lupus-Like Syndrome"), Osteoporosis, Pancytopenia, chronic malabsorption/malnutrition, etc.; G-Tube; Currently TPN-dependent.
Meds:  Zofran, Pulmicort, Heparin (to flush PICC line), Claritin, Colloidal Silver (used topically), IV Milk Thistle, probiotics.


Martha's Vineyard
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Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 1119
   Posted 6/3/2009 9:28 PM (GMT -7)   
I have heard of others taking steriods. To get energy and to be able to cope. But I am trying to remember the really bad stuff that I heard about it....I think it also feeds the lyme.
Cannot remember my source. But I too was put on them for my belspalsy. And wow..I too wanted to get out....fight someone..and have sex. But is it not addictive?
And just think that it helps the bacteria as much as everything else.
2004 in Martha's Vineyard me and my two daughters then 11 mos and 6 all got Lyme Disease. This was only known to us because we found the tiny ticks on us and we got very ill. My dog also got lyme and he went lame.
We have fought it for 4 years to no avail.
We all got it again this summer is Texas.
I am now in treatment in Scottsdale Arizona at Envita.

"The eyes cannot see for for what the mind does not know."


Martha's Vineyard
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 1119
   Posted 6/3/2009 9:41 PM (GMT -7)   
Forest call...
You do know that your lyme can be sexually transmitted to your wife...right?
2004 in Martha's Vineyard me and my two daughters then 11 mos and 6 all got Lyme Disease. This was only known to us because we found the tiny ticks on us and we got very ill. My dog also got lyme and he went lame.
We have fought it for 4 years to no avail.
We all got it again this summer is Texas.
I am now in treatment in Scottsdale Arizona at Envita.

"The eyes cannot see for for what the mind does not know."


CajunGrl
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 4717
   Posted 6/3/2009 11:14 PM (GMT -7)   
Didn't they give this to a patient that had cancer and she died from it? It came from another country and didn't have the right medications in it. I can't remember what they put in it, but it killed that poor lady that was just looking for some help with her energy and to be with her family before cancer took her life. The drug took it instead.

I will look it up.
2003 symptoms started
2007 Diagnosed with Lyme. Didn't start treatment.
2008 symptoms came back with a vengence.
2009 Diagnosed with Lyme plus co-infections....Babesia and Bartonella.
Illnesses:-Chronic Lyme Disease,Hashimotos Thyroiditis, Ulcers, Hypoglycemia
Medications:-Biaxin 250mg to start,Mepron,Ultram,Thyro Complex 60mg,Probiotics and supplements


forestcall
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 25
   Posted 6/4/2009 12:19 AM (GMT -7)   
Thanks for the nice and thoughtful posts!!

I have read similar info for HIV+ (I do not have HIV) and I was wondering if a similar result will occur with Lyme Dissease. From what I understand in both Cancer and HIV+ there are similar issues regarding the immune system, hormones, etc.

I think getting the body really strong and healthy seems like a logical path for treatment. However if the Lyme is going to grow and present more side affects then clearly steroids would not be good.

One thing to point out is that not all steroids are the same in how they affect the system.

Im really happy to have this opportunity to discuss this with you all.

Thanks :-)

forestcall
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 25
   Posted 6/4/2009 12:22 AM (GMT -7)   
I had no idea this can be transmittted via sexual intercourse.....

Wow! Yikes.... Can it be transmitted to the child?

CajunGrl
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 4717
   Posted 6/4/2009 12:25 AM (GMT -7)   
Yes, it can be transmitted from mother to fetus.
2003 symptoms started
2007 Diagnosed with Lyme. Didn't start treatment.
2008 symptoms came back with a vengence.
2009 Diagnosed with Lyme plus co-infections....Babesia and Bartonella.
Illnesses:-Chronic Lyme Disease,Hashimotos Thyroiditis, Ulcers, Hypoglycemia
Medications:-Biaxin 250mg to start,Mepron,Ultram,Thyro Complex 60mg,Probiotics and supplements


RottenDog
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 1013
   Posted 6/4/2009 12:30 AM (GMT -7)   
from my understands is if the mother has Lyme then you take a huge chance of the baby getting it. I am not 100$ on this but i have read many in here who have gone thru it with there babies, and i belive they know a lot more then any Dr. does as they live with lyme daily. and know what is happing to there childern.

maybe we should start a post and ask if there is couples with only 1 of em haven lyme and not there partner. in my home this is the case, only me and the 1 dog have lyme,and both of us have been bit by ticks in all but 7 states. could of got it anyweres.

also when breeding my dogs the vet is consernd about my male haven lyme and it can possable effict the litter. we do artifical breeding tho. in about 7 weeks i will know if i have puppies and then if there healthy.
   RD
                                                                                                                 
 
still looking for answers
 


JELAINEP
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 2017
   Posted 6/4/2009 5:21 AM (GMT -7)   
When I stumbled upon my first rhuematologist (during my long fight for a cure from Lyme) I was placed on 21 different medications including several steroids. I completely deteriorated... I lost all ground gained. I am positive that the detrimental effects of being mis-diagnosed with RA and being placed on all those medications was the end to my immune system.... completetly wiped out. I know that's why I'm still struggling to recover.
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.  - Margaret Meade
06/00- The beginning, 08/01-LD positive, 10/01- Igenex and CDC LD positive, 10/02-LD positive, 11/03-LD positive, 10/07-Bartonella positive, CD57=3, possibly just tested positive for koseri IgA, Morganella motgani,Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever (RMSF - yay! another acronym), Typhus Fever, Klebsiella pneumonia, Proteus miabilis, Citrobacter i IgA, Hafnia alvai IgA, NKC4, Interleukin 4 (IL4), IL8, Immunobillin (IM01). 
Current Rx's 11/12/08: Wellbutrin 300mg, Paxil 60mg, Xanax 5mg, Acidophilus, Lyrica 600mg
"How much more can I take?", songhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gHiR1xeOSs


forestcall
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 25
   Posted 6/4/2009 2:37 PM (GMT -7)   
Yes thus far i have refused all the normal medications to reduce inflammation in my joints and other crazy meds. I am preparing to take the Antibiotic treatments and corresponding medications.

Im going to educate myself on the similarities of HIV immune issues and Lyme immune issues. I wonder if taking immune boosters similar to that which HIV patients take while taking Steroids would reduce the issues people are concerned with.

*My brain can't get passed how wonderful Steroids are for a 99% remission in HIV. Many patients with HIV+ report that the disease no longer shows up on blood tests after several steroid cyccles.

I will not take steroids until I am confident it will not hurt me. But I am intrigued! :-)

CajunGrl
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 4717
   Posted 6/4/2009 6:18 PM (GMT -7)   
There was another study being done about the effectiveness of giving a small dose of the flu vaccine twice a week to build up the immune system. I actually participated for a few months but didn't continue because I had some people telling me it might be dangerous to mess with the immune system like that. I'm still curious if indeed it does work but haven't heard much more about it.
2003 symptoms started
2007 Diagnosed with Lyme. Didn't start treatment.
2008 symptoms came back with a vengence.
2009 Diagnosed with Lyme plus co-infections....Babesia and Bartonella.
Illnesses:-Chronic Lyme Disease,Hashimotos Thyroiditis, Ulcers, Hypoglycemia
Medications:-Biaxin 250mg to start,Mepron,Ultram,Thyro Complex 60mg,Probiotics and supplements

Post Edited (CajunGrl) : 6/4/2009 11:21:31 PM (GMT-6)


Razzle
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4399
   Posted 6/4/2009 10:16 PM (GMT -7)   
Steroids block or interfere with fatty acid metabolism, sulfur metabolism (an important detox pathway in the liver), calcium and magnesium absorption, electrolyte balance, and who knows what else. The effects of long-term steroid use is a huge long list and involves almost every system of the body and mind. My husband has been dealing with these things for a long time and is finally on a low enough steroid dose to be able to compensate nutritionally for some of the effects. But I personally would avoid steroids if at all possible.
-Razzle
Chronic Lyme Disease, Gluten & Sulfite Sensitivity, Many Food/Inhalant/Medication/Chemical Allergies & Intolerances, Asthma, Gut issues (dysmotility, non-specific inflammation), UCTD ("Secondary Lupus-Like Syndrome"), Osteoporosis, Pancytopenia, chronic malabsorption/malnutrition, etc.; G-Tube; Currently TPN-dependent.
Meds:  Zofran, Pulmicort, Heparin (to flush PICC line), Claritin, Colloidal Silver (used topically), IV Milk Thistle, probiotics.


mallo1999
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2013
Total Posts : 1
   Posted 2/18/2013 8:10 PM (GMT -7)   
I had knee pain, went to an orthopedic dr, got cortisone shots in both knees without having any blood work done. I felt great for two weeks, and then BOOM, the pain became so intense that I was in tears and could barely walk. I later found out that steroids and lyme don't mix well without first taking an antibiotic.
 
I had a positive Lyme test a month and a half later. 

Post Edited (mallo1999) : 2/18/2013 8:16:02 PM (GMT-7)


Lymer
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts : 511
   Posted 2/18/2013 8:57 PM (GMT -7)   
mallo1999, I realize this is an older post, but wanted to chime in.

My rheumatologist was very insistent that I take steroids. I thought nothing of it at first, but then realized I possibly had Lyme disease, and heard that its a dangerous combo. So I stopped the prednisone but I feel the damage was done. I was barely able to get out of bed for a couple months.

I still have bad days now (like today), but what I went through after taking steroids was nothing short of a nightmare. Please, anyone reading this, if you have lyme and have the choice do not take steroids.

Heathersdad
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts : 1152
   Posted 2/18/2013 10:55 PM (GMT -7)   
There is some good and some not so good information on this thread. Steroids are a huge issue. I don't even know where to start.

You will die without certain steroids, and you will suffer terribly or maybe die if you misuse other steroids. There is a happy and desirable middle ground that benefits lyme sufferers, if they can obtain it.

Your adrenals produce cortisol which is absolutely necessary for glucose metabolism and energy production. It also has important immune functions. Your adrenal glands produces elevated cortisol levels in response to stress on your body- whether emotional, physical, or infectious. If a person has sustained stress on his body, then his cortisol will be elevated for a sustained period of time. A person with lyme will usually have elevated cortisol levels until the infection is brought under control. Elevated cortisol may be unhealthy and can cause a lot of damage in the body. When the infection goes on beyond a certain point, then the adrenals may shut down and produce little or no cortisol. This is also very unhealthy and can even be life threatening.

Steroids have gotten a very bad name for several reasons. We all know about anabolic steroids- because of the abuse in bodybuilding, professional sports, Lance Armstrong, etc. Anabolic steroids must not be confused with the "catabolic steroids" such as cortisol. Catabolic steroids do not build up muscle. They tear down muscle tissue and collagen to use it for energy production when there is an excess of cortisol in the body.

There is a certain group of catabolic steroids which are known as corticosteroids. They are produced by the adrenal glands. Within this group are the glucocosteroids and the mineralcosteroids. The glucocosteroid is cortisol, which I already described. The mineralcosteroid is aldosterone which regulates electrolytes and fluid balance in the body. The most important steroid in the body is the cortisol, and you cannot live without it.

The man that discovered and synthesized cortisol won a Nobel prize. It was viewed as a miracle drug. Initially physicians cured a lot of illness and saved many lives because of their usage of cortisol. Then, eventually patients started to become very ill and many died. It appeared that cortisol was not the panacea that it first appeared to be. Consequently, cortisol was ostracized and got a very bad name among physicians and in the medical literature. That situation exists to this very day.

There have been a few physicians and researchers that have had a different experience with cortisol. They have used it safely on many thousands of patients without any bad side effects. The physicians whose patients experienced dangerous or deadly side effects used "pharmacological" (high) doses of cortisol. The physicians whose patients received beneficial or life-saving results used "physiological" (low) does of cortisol. Acknowledging and maintaining this distinction makes a universe of difference in the patient experience when treated with the cortisol.

A patient's cortisol levels should almost always be tested before cortisol is prescribed. A lyme patient who is early in the illness cycle may (probably) has elevated cortisol that is already damaging his body and suppressing aspects of his immune system. He is already above the physiologically normal range. It would be very dangerous to administer any amount of any corticostesteroid such as cortisol. The problem with cortisol is when there is more free cortisol in your system than your body is utilizing for constructive purposes. That is when the symptoms arise.

A lyme patient who is in the latter chronic stage may have very low cortisol production levels. He should also be tested to see whether this is the case, and to get an idea of how large the deficiency is. The saliva and urine tests are best, and the blood test may also be useful to an extent. Cortisol doses are determined by symptomology. There are well known symptoms for low cortisol levels, and there are other symptoms for elevated levels. It took accurate knowledge, honestly, communication, and discerning scrutiny to get the dosage levels right. Heather has experienced a degree of symptoms from both having suppressed and elevated levels of cortisol. We have gotten it right, and it has been revolutionary for her. The use of physiological, replacement, low dose, bioidentical cortisol is not at all dangerous for the properly vetted patients. It would have been unhealthy and maybe eventually dangerous for her not to have received it. I have to give Dr. Jernigan credit for referring Heather to a knowledgeable LLMD who is licensed to prescribe the hydrocortisone.

I have to give some latitude and tolerance to the several comments on this thread with which I strongly disagree. They have made their negative statements about steroids because of their knowledge of very bad patient experiences, and they are partially correct. When cortisol levels are above normal parameters, then unhealthy effects can be expected, just as they have enumerated here. Very few people-even many doctors- have knowledge of the entirely safe usage of low dose hydrocortisone for low cortisol level patients. The goal is to bring the cortisol level up to normal levels, but not to err by going beyond it. The result has been revolutionary for many people with serious illnesses. I would advise AGAINST any other usage of steroids outside of the parameters that I have stated.

One of the major proponents of the low-dose cortisol approach is William McKnight Jefferies M.D., P.H.D. who wrote the book "Safe uses of Cortisol". I strongly recommend reading the book. It is not inexpensive however.

Don
We are older parents and Heather is our only child. She became so sick and debilitated that we thought that she was going to die, and everything looked so hopeless and bleak. However, God answered our prayers, and used the healing hands of Dr. J. at the Hansa Center to more than restore the health of our precious daughter. I have a moral obligation to help others that are likewise suffering!

Post Edited (Heathersdad) : 2/19/2013 12:43:45 AM (GMT-7)


Damian99899
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 10/26/2013 1:28 PM (GMT -7)   
Forestcall,

I agree with you. My doc gave me some hormones and made me feel better.

I would like to discuss this with you in further detail in private.

Can I P.M. you somehow?

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 35859
   Posted 10/26/2013 3:56 PM (GMT -7)   
I would suggest that you do a lot more research on how steroids will lower the immune system and what that means for infections - they will spread out of control. We have tick-borne infections which means they are very complicated infections.

The only reason this thread stays up is because people need to see that steroids are not a good choice when one has these infections.
Lyme herbs used: "Chronic Tonic" from www.mistymeadows.org/wendydocs/Lyme Disease.pdf for 9 months

Bart herb - only Houttuynia for 6 months
tx ended 1-2013

Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV

Questions about what I've posted or just have questions? Please email me!!! Click on blue envelope under my screen name.

Damian99899
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 10/27/2013 11:20 PM (GMT -7)   
Forestcall,

I agree with you. My doc gave me some hormones and made me feel better.

I would like to discuss this with you in further detail in private.

Can I P.M. you somehow?

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 35859
   Posted 10/28/2013 12:44 PM (GMT -7)   
Forestcall has not been on this forum since 2009, Damian. I'm sorry.
Lyme herbs used: "Chronic Tonic" from www.mistymeadows.org/wendydocs/Lyme Disease.pdf for 9 months

Bart herb - only Houttuynia for 6 months
tx ended 1-2013

Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV

Questions about what I've posted or just have questions? Please email me!!! Click on blue envelope under my screen name.

Toronto_M
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2015
Total Posts : 193
   Posted 8/9/2015 9:30 AM (GMT -7)   
This topic interests me. Anyone ever used/looked into anabolic steroids to heal from Lyme?

rowingmom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2011
Total Posts : 1648
   Posted 8/9/2015 10:26 AM (GMT -7)   
We use low dose bioidentical progesterone cream to help with adrenal fatigue.

When the adrenals are exhausted the body will produce cortisol using the progesterone cascade. Which tends to make people (both men and women) progesterone deficient; which of course means estrogen dominant.
13 yo daughter:
2010 - Dx ADHD, Tourette’s, Aspergers, motor delay, PANS/PANDAS
June 2011 - Igenex PCR positive bartonella, IND lyme. CD57 18. Positive ANA (speckled type), heterozygous A1298C MTHFR. Multiple Abx, herbals/homeopathics
April 2013 - ANA titers negative. Weaned abx. Start Buhner bartonella protocol, methylation/detox protocols, organic PerfectHealthDiet gf/cf/sf. Minimize EMF exposure
Nov 2013 – Clinical babesia diagnosis. Start Buhner babesia protocol
Sept 2014 – Symptoms 99% resolved

Bakardi
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2015
Total Posts : 1
   Posted 10/24/2015 3:05 AM (GMT -7)   
i threw out my back a year ago and found out i had degenerative disk disease. my body continued to feel like it was breaking down, i tore something in my back and it felt like my fascia in my hips was breaking down and becoming weak. i went to the va hospital and they couldnt find anything wrong, said it was in my head, went to a specialist and found out i had lymes disease, i have been treated with antibiotics for the lymes and found a good source for anavar, i started taking anavar at 30mg a day, and have noticed that my body no longer feels as if it is breaking down. im wondering if steroids or hgh could rebuild whatever it was that i tore in my lower back, my body feels all twisted out of shape and all my joints are cracking, the anavar definately has helped with my degenerative discs and getting some of my streghth back from the loss due to lymes disease, are there any suggestions for anything beyond anavar, i am going to see an endocrinologist to see if the lymes might have unbalanced my hormones, hgh looks beneficial......any feed back appreciated

Post Edited (Bakardi) : 6/8/2017 7:14:13 AM (GMT-6)


rowingmom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2011
Total Posts : 1648
   Posted 10/24/2015 5:43 AM (GMT -7)   
Several of the top LLMDs recommend resistance training as part of their comprehensive treatment protocols. Stimulation of endogenous production of HGH and testosterone is likely their reasoning.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2796409
13 yo daughter:
2010 - Dx ADHD, Tourette’s, Aspergers, motor delay, PANS/PANDAS
June 2011 - Igenex PCR positive bartonella, IND lyme. CD57 18. Positive ANA (speckled type), heterozygous A1298C MTHFR. Multiple Abx, herbals/homeopathics
April 2013 - ANA titers negative. Weaned abx. Start Buhner bartonella protocol, methylation/detox protocols, organic PerfectHealthDiet gf/cf/sf. Minimize EMF exposure
Nov 2013 – Clinical babesia diagnosis. Start Buhner babesia protocol
Sept 2014 – Symptoms 99% resolved

Traveler
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 35859
   Posted 10/24/2015 7:39 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi Bakardi,
Welcome to our community!

How long were you treated for your Lyme? Can you tell us what antibiotics you used and at what dose as well?

Anavar is an "anabolic" steroid that promotes the growth of muscle tissue, regain weight lost after surgery, severe trauma, or chronic infections, and is also used to decrease muscle loss caused by using steroid medicines, and to reduce bone pain in people with osteoporosis.

www.drugs.com/mtm/oxandrolone.html

It's not helping you treat the infections, it's only helping with the pain, which can be significant we know, but it's not helping you heal those things. You should be very aware of the side effects to continued use as well:
www.drugs.com/sfx/oxandrolone-side-effects.html

If you are still having ongoing symptoms, then you have an active infection(s) still that need to be addressed.
Herb only treatment for Lyme & Bart ended 12/11 - no active symptoms for 2 yrs -Herb only treatment for Babesia ended 12/12
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=2977364
Had Lyme, Bart, Babs, RMSF, Ehrlichia, Myco, Anaplasmosis, EBV
New Lyme case 8/2014 - Healed 1/31/15
*I can usually post a link to any info that I post. Wish to see a link? Please just ask!
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