Dental Lyme and other stuff, missed posting

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pcpc
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Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 214
   Posted 8/2/2009 1:24 PM (GMT -7)   
In the July Public Health alert (on line) I found an article about a dentist in California who is treating Lyme infections in the teeth. I have 2 infected molars that have made it impossible for me to eat foods unless I drink them through a straw or heat it up to a warm temperature (not too hot or too cold, sort of like Goldilocks). I have had this symptom for 6 months and lost 14 pounds and haven't found any doctor or dentist who could help until now. I contacted this dentist and I am flying out to see him this Wednesday. He sounds very interesting and he told me that Lyme loves to infect teeth and can impede improvement as it blocks meridians. He also said that it is best to treat the teeth first before going on antibiotics and that high dose antibiotics can push it into the teeth. Have you guys heard of any of this?? I had heard of this before with mercury fillings. Any way I am traveling this week!!

He uses homeopathics and puts them in dental trays. I am desperate and hope it works. Best part is that when I called to use my frequent flyer miles the agent heard that I had Lyme and offered to put me in a first class seat if I flew at 6 am and returned on a red eye! Now I have to figure out how to take 4 days of intravenous bottles with flushing syringes through the security. Will keep you posted- I have been away from internet for a while so that's why you haven't heard much from me. I missed the IDSA panel.......on vacation without electronics!

+Lyme
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Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 1304
   Posted 8/2/2009 2:46 PM (GMT -7)   
Oh my gosh, pcpc, what an ordeal! I am responding to both wish you luck and also tell you that I've had dental problems since being infected -- I just hadn't attributed them to Lyme and am now getting wise.

Although it hasn't caused me to lose any weight, my teeth are so senstive to the cold that I cant' even eat a salad, unless I leave it in room temp for awhile. Sometimes I can hardly touch some of my back teeth w/ the toothbrush and paste, it will hurt so bad. The reason I'm attributing this to lyme is because it comes and goes. I won't know that it's going to happen til I touch the tooth and then shoot thru the roof!

Is this anything like what you are experiencing? I don't know if my teeth are infected, but my entire mouth and gums throb all the time and is 'sore' much of the time. Then there was the day recently that one of my teeth fell out at work. It was a tooth that had had a root canal and crown, and it just fell out, leaving a black hole w/ pieces of root and tooth in it. Dentist had no explanation for it, said sometimes it 'just happens.'

What I don't understand about what you are saying is how and why would the high dose of abx send Lyme into the teeth -- when a lot of dental problems are treated w/ abx? I've been hoping all this time that abx will 'cure' my mouth!

I will be very anxious to hear about your trip and treatment!
Bit 1972: Acute and chronic tonsillitis, UTI, miscarraige, appendicitis, hypoglycemia,  chronic neck pain w/ crushed vertibrae, chronic severe back pain, mitral valve prolapse, depression, resolution?
Bit Mother's Day 2007: Lyme, Babesia microti, hypothyroidism, EBV, HHV6, Parvovirus B19, low adrenals &misc other hormones, depression, anxiety, more of the above.
What don't these nasty bugs cause? 
CD57= 60, so we're in pretty good shape.
 


Dowa
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Date Joined Sep 2008
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   Posted 8/2/2009 3:32 PM (GMT -7)   
I have all the same problems with my teeth. Sensitive to heat and cold, had a couple pullled a few years back, no explaination for the pain. Very interesting, keep us posted please.  The abx statement makes so sense to me either.  D

pcpc
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Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 214
   Posted 8/2/2009 3:55 PM (GMT -7)   
Wow so glad to hear there are others with this. .......oops that doesn't sound right I am so sorry to hear that others have this- it's my worst ever Lyme symptom and people think you are crazy......

I have been researching for some time and I think it is important in Lyme recovery. I originally thought that this was a nerve hypersensitivity from Bart or Lyme. Since reading Dr L's article that I mentioned above he describes that the Lyme organisims actual infect the tubules in the teeth.

They (Lyme bugs) burrow inside to hide out form antibiotics- it is anaerobic at the gum line and around the teeth so they are around the mouth. The tubules normally have a flow in them (who knew there was an inner world inside our teeth)- when the tooth is Lyme infected the tubules malfunction and foods, irritants that are normally repelled from the teeth get absorbed by the teeth-- this is what really got me as I have been telling dentists that it feels as though foods, like butter, salt, sweet, sour get sucked into my teeth and hurt the nerve.

I asked several big Lyme docs about this dental problem and they said they didn't see it- but I think we aren't telling them but we need to speak about all of weird symptoms that we tend to brush off.

Yes +Lyme- this is what I have been experiencing- just like you have- only mine got worse as my treatment intensified. I can't eat a sandwich or anything, including lettuce unless its heated....

Oh and one other thing-- mine started about 3 weeks after I did a bleaching tray-- so anyone with Lyme DON'T BLEACH YOUR TEETH!!! I will ask the dentist about this and see if he concurs.......

+Lyme
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Date Joined Apr 2009
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   Posted 8/2/2009 4:12 PM (GMT -7)   
pcpc, I have used the cheap, home teeth bleaching stuff for many years. (I only use it every couple of weeks now) Yes, it definitely causes teeth to be more sensitive, that is why I quit using it as often.

However, important to note, I only use it on front teeth, on the front. So that explains only some of my teeth. The teeth that send me thru the roof when they decide to be senstive are back molars and there is no way they ever even touched this bleach stuff. So I'm certain my issue is w/ both the bleaching and the lyme.

I am so sorry about you having this pcpc! I am especially sorry because now I know how you feel -- I was so excited to have a bunch of Amox here and now it feels overwhelmingly hopeless. I am so glad you are going to get to see a lyme dentist this week -- for your own sake AND so that you can possibly help the rest of us!
Bit 1972: Acute and chronic tonsillitis, UTI, miscarraige, appendicitis, hypoglycemia,  chronic neck pain w/ crushed vertibrae, chronic severe back pain, mitral valve prolapse, depression, resolution?
Bit Mother's Day 2007: Lyme, Babesia microti, hypothyroidism, EBV, HHV6, Parvovirus B19, low adrenals &misc other hormones, depression, anxiety, more of the above.
What don't these nasty bugs cause? 
CD57= 60, so we're in pretty good shape.
 


pcpc
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Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 214
   Posted 8/2/2009 4:17 PM (GMT -7)   
I too only did the front teeth and only have it in the lower molars. What do you mean you are hopeless about the Amoxil-- is that what you are taking for Lyme? Dont' be hopeless-- never lose hoe -- you can get better- I am living proof- had Lyme most of my life!

+Lyme
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Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 1304
   Posted 8/2/2009 4:24 PM (GMT -7)   
Oh, pcpc, then you are the one that's gonna have to pull us thru, somehow....

Actually, I'm not that sick. But for the past month, I have figured the Lyme was causing dental problems. To hear that the abx just makes the dental worse is discouraging. I was hoping to be a fast cure, until this and until all the babs research I've done this weekend.

and pcpc, it is discouraging to hear that you've had Lyme most of your life! That is so senseless and unfair! What is your current status of health otherwise, dental issues aside?
 
And Dowa, does your pain/sensitivity come and go like I said?


Bit 1972: Acute and chronic tonsillitis, UTI, miscarraige, appendicitis, hypoglycemia,  chronic neck pain w/ crushed vertibrae, chronic severe back pain, mitral valve prolapse, depression, resolution?
Bit Mother's Day 2007: Lyme, Babesia microti, hypothyroidism, EBV, HHV6, Parvovirus B19, low adrenals &misc other hormones, depression, anxiety, more of the above.
What don't these nasty bugs cause? 
CD57= 60, so we're in pretty good shape.
 


minerals
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Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 943
   Posted 8/3/2009 10:49 AM (GMT -7)   
pcpc, I have missed your posts. I am happy you found a dentist who treats Lyme. Too bad you had to go to California, because there is one in Dutchess County New York who does that as well. As a matter of fact I believe there are 2 Lyme literate dentists here in the upper Hudson Valley.

I did not know that 5 years ago... before treatment I had such severe pain in my teeth that my dentist at the time pulled 2 very good teeth out. I could feel the gums pulsing like I had tooth aches but xrays showed no absesses. She insisted on pulling the teeth. I was appalled to discover that the pain in my gums continued after the teeth were pulled!!! I always had taken scrupulous care of my teeth and gums but due to lyme I was always told My gums were not great. Anyway now that I have been on a ton of antibiotics for a few years my gums are now great---but I have less of my own teeth now.

Since getting self educated I learned what Lyme could do to the teeth the hard way.. I hope you get the help you want with yours, and if for some reason you want a dentist who is closer email me.

Blessings
Diagnosed 2003 Lyme, Babesia, Bartonella, Micoplasma,Hashimotos Thyroiditis. Have had since early nineties.

Outstare The Darkness--------The Light Will Come!


Dowa
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Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 1120
   Posted 8/3/2009 10:57 AM (GMT -7)   
Minerals: I had the EXACT same experience. I had two perfectly healthy teeth pulled because of severe pain and then the pain was still there. I swear the dentist thought I was insane. But the question I have is if the abx is not the answer, then what in the world is? I also have the gum issues, have always eaten healthy and never could explain why my teeth/gums were always in such bad shape
You said that the abx helped with your gum issues, pcp says differently, its all SO confusing. I would like the names of those dentists if you would please email them to me. Thanks so much-  dianebolton@hotmail.com   D
 

Tallison
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Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 417
   Posted 8/3/2009 12:57 PM (GMT -7)   

Hi guys,

So sorry to hear about the tooth pain.  I hope this doctor helps you!!

I am so surprised that a dentist would pull teeth without seeing anything on the xray.  I'm so sorry it didn't help!

I don't know why I am surprised, actually.  I did convince a doc to take out my tonsils without having any tonsilitis episodes or strep, so ... I suppose you never know.  Removing my tonsils didn't help anything either, by the way. 

Can you guys both send me an e-mail with the name of the dentists?  I am in NY, but would like to know the name of the CA one as well.

Also, does anyone know what the best type of crowns are to put in?  Porcelain? Gold?  I've been told that the porcelain has mixed metals attached to it.  I need to get two crowns.  Well, one just needs a filling but I've been told that crowns are healthier and a better option (more choices for non-toxic materials?).  Can anyone weigh in on this?

Ok thanks so much, and good luck pcpc!


Dowa
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Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 1120
   Posted 8/3/2009 3:56 PM (GMT -7)   
The dentist  I was seeing said that there were crowns that were metal-free, all porcelain. I know with gold, some MCS people have trouble with it, I'd go with the all-porcelain.  D

springsjean
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Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 2154
   Posted 8/3/2009 6:51 PM (GMT -7)   
One of my first symptoms was an infection in my mouth resulting in two teeth being pulled. what a nightmare! First dentist screwed everything up and had to start over with new dentist who charged me over $15,000. Not until years later did I finally figure out that my burning gums, gnawing teeth pain, tight jaw, etc. were all from lyme. Thank God I was finally diagnosed or I'd be flat out broke cause not only did the doctors not know anything about lyme but neither do dentists.

Tallison
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 417
   Posted 8/3/2009 7:20 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks for the info.  I actually was just doing some online searches.
Has anyone heard of Zirconium Oxide (dental material)?  Claims are that it is completely biocompatible and inert.  Has anyone had a bloodtest (Connor, I think?) for compatability?
 

Dowa
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 1120
   Posted 8/3/2009 7:27 PM (GMT -7)   
I had the blood test by Clifford, is that what you meant? They take your blood and then test it against dental materials to see what they can use safely in your mouth,. I dont have the information with me here as I had it done in Boston when I was there. It is worth it if you have MCS. I did however get tested out here in Texas and the test did NOT correspond with the Clifford. results. According to the clinic here, the adhesive I have in my crowns, I am allergic too. Who the heck knows....
 

Razzle
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Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4399
   Posted 8/4/2009 3:56 AM (GMT -7)   
I've also heard that, because there is no blood circulation in the teeth themselves, infectious organisms can hide inside teeth...am bummed but not surprised Lyme can do this too.

I had a lot of trouble with my gums bleeding despite daily brushing/flossing...and then discovered chewing real chicle-based chewing gum (not the synthetic petroleum-derived gum base used in most common chewing gum brands) has caused my gums to stop bleeding for the first time in my entire life.

I've also had episodes of a few consecutive teeth, or even just one tooth, start hurting and the dentist not able to find anything wrong with the tooth/teeth. More recently I've had episodes of migratory gum pain...my solution is to rub a drop of clove essential oil on the painful location. It burns a little when first applied, but after that the pain goes away. I've also had gum pain migrate to an untreated location in my gums (after Lyme diagnosis), confirming another strange location for the "migratory pain" of Lyme...

I suspect that tooth whiteners probably kill off at least some of the "friendly" bugs in our mouths in addition to cleaning stained teeth, which may explain the increased tooth sensitivity. I doubt if this critter-killing is limited to the area where the whitener is applied...but this is only my opinion.

Tooth health also has a genetic component, according to more than one dentist I've seen. I'm certain genetics play some role in my tooth issues (in addition to the effect of Lyme on teeth).

Take care,
-Razzle
Chronic Lyme Disease, Gluten & Sulfite Sensitivity, Many Food/Inhalant/Medication/Chemical Allergies & Intolerances, Asthma, Gut issues (dysmotility, non-specific inflammation), UCTD ("Secondary Lupus-Like Syndrome"), Osteoporosis, chronic Lymphopenia, intermittant pancytopenia, chronic malabsorption/malnutrition, etc.; G-Tube; Currently TPN-dependent.
Meds:  Zofran, Pulmicort, IV Ceftazidime, Heparin (to flush PICC line), Claritin, Domperidone, Colloidal Silver (used topically), probiotics, homeopathy.


tickedoff
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2009
Total Posts : 56
   Posted 8/4/2009 5:48 AM (GMT -7)   
i wonder if rinsing your teeth with hydrogen peroxide might help...any thought?? my husband is going to the dentist due to "plaque" build up between teeth...i hope this is not part of the lyme...

Dowa
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Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 1120
   Posted 8/4/2009 9:52 AM (GMT -7)   
Tickedoff: Yes, the dentist I saw in Boston told me to take the cap of the Hydrogen Peroxide and fill it 1/2 full of HP and then water and brush your teeth with that, this was for gum problems.  D

pcpc
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 214
   Posted 8/4/2009 11:12 AM (GMT -7)   
Not sure about the peroxide I will ask the dentist I meet with in CA-- definitely don't bleach your teeth- I think it can harm the enamel and allow the bugs to get into the dentin- which is what I have. Promise to take good notes guys-- this is a big topic.

bablymers
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Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 1458
   Posted 8/4/2009 11:48 AM (GMT -7)   
Thanks for all this info everyone. Curious if anybody has ever been told to brush their teeth/gums with rizols (treated oils)? My naturopath/chiropractor suggested this once but I have not done it yet. I will have to ask him about it again to try and understand the purpose. I thought it was just a way to get the oxygen/oil into the body easily, but maybe it was to treat the teeth too?

PCPC----I will look forward to hearing how your dentist visit goes. Could you please email me the name of the CA dentist? I live in CA and I need to find a good dentist. Thank you.

Best wishes to all. bablymers mom

Razzle
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Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4399
   Posted 8/4/2009 11:31 PM (GMT -7)   
Pcpc,

Please email me the name and contact info of the dentist in CA as well - thanks,
-Razzle
Chronic Lyme Disease, Gluten & Sulfite Sensitivity, Many Food/Inhalant/Medication/Chemical Allergies & Intolerances, Asthma, Gut issues (dysmotility, non-specific inflammation), UCTD ("Secondary Lupus-Like Syndrome"), Osteoporosis, chronic Lymphopenia, intermittant pancytopenia, chronic malabsorption/malnutrition, etc.; G-Tube; Currently TPN-dependent.
Meds:  Zofran, Pulmicort, IV Ceftazidime, Heparin (to flush PICC line), Claritin, Domperidone, Colloidal Silver (used topically), probiotics, homeopathy.


nefferdun
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Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 8/5/2009 8:43 AM (GMT -7)   
I have some gum sensitivity but did not connect it with lyme. I started taking Co enzyme Q10 which is the best supplement for gum disease. I have heard brushing your teeth with hydrogen peroxide and baking soda works well. Also clove bud oil is good to kill bacteria in your mouth and help your gums. I am glad you mentioned this as I should start something now before this gets worse.

Deejavu
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Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 4306
   Posted 8/6/2009 5:38 AM (GMT -7)   
People may want to research oil pulling as well as apple cider vinegar as well as chelation therapy.
 
Some links:
 
 
 
 
 
 
Hope this helps,
Denise
It's all about the Immune System mixed with a large dose of Positive Thinking and Daily Detoxing   ~  Pay It Forward!!
 
This song is about my years with chronic lyme since 1995 and being in remission for over 3 years:
 
 


pcpc
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 214
   Posted 8/6/2009 9:30 PM (GMT -7)   
Well I am in California- sure is beautiful Dr L is in wine country- wish I could sample some! Any way I think he is great and I have a plan to get my teeth fixed.

He was so interesting to talk with. Syphilis affects 8 teeth- first molars and front teeth upper and lower and guess what-- so does Lyme!! I can't wait to pour over the dental books when I get back to Boston and research dental syphilis because it is going to help us Lymies get our health back.

The teeth health are vital for good immune function-- all major meridians traverse the teeth. Lyme can harbor inside the teeth. Sorry this in incoherent but wanted to let you guys that I am on to something and I feel hopeful. More news to follow...

Caldonia Sun
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 310
   Posted 8/7/2009 6:31 AM (GMT -7)   
I was rinsing my mouth with peroxide in February. My gums and jaw hurt so badly after a few days I ended up laying in bed with a heating pad. Talking was unbearable. If you do this, please dilute it with water by at least half.

Also, baking soda is too abrasive for brushing. It can be harmful to the gums.

jam338
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 2
   Posted 8/7/2009 8:16 AM (GMT -7)   
hi PCPC, I am new to this forum, but not new to being sick/disabled from this disease.  Just found this forum and looking forward to learning more.  I have been very sick for years, but only discovered it as lyme disease last year. Now disabled & bedridden most of the time (going on 5 yrs).
 
I am in CA near Napa Valley.  Glad you are enjoying our great weather.  One of my many symptoms is problems in my front teeth so your posts on lyme/teeth/dentist in wine country is of great personal interest.   I would greatly appreciate it if you could kindly please share more information on how to contact Dr.L.
 
There is also information I would like to share with you about a medical group specializing in lyme that may interest you while here in CA.
 

Post Edited (jam338) : 8/7/2009 11:24:05 AM (GMT-6)

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